Master of Delusion

With President Obama making Middle East peace a welcome top priority early in his presidency (and dispatching the highly respected George Mitchell to the region this week), analysts, "experts," and opinion-makers are falling over themselves to offer their two cents on what will work, and what won't. Tom Friedman, ever anxious to give advice, writes in the New York Times that a "five state solution" is the answer to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. His imaginary letter from King Abdullah to President Obama is nice enough, but even Abdullah, mindful that Arab populations are furious with their leaders for having either enabled the Israeli war against Gaza or for showing virtually no support for impoverished Gazans under siege, would recognize that Friedman's solution is no solution at all.

The reality is that without Iran and Syria, no real peace will be possible in the Middle East. Abdullah's supposed proposal (penned by Friedman) includes Jordan and Egypt in the "five-state" mix, both authoritarian countries that have close relations with the U.S. (and Israel) and whose governments are hardly popular with their people, unpopular with Iranians and Syrians, and collaborators as far as some Palestinians are concerned. Hezbollah and Hamas, both of which are supported by Iran and Syria, are perhaps the most important parties to a comprehensive Middle East peace (that includes Lebanon and the Shebaa Farms question), so ignoring those two countries in any negotiations for a settlement between Israel and Palestine (and Lebanon) is rather pointless. (One would hardly expect Mitchell to make his first stop in Tehran, but the exclusion of Damascus from his itinerary, where we actually have an embassy, seems rather short sighted too, given that Hamas' political leadership is based there.) Keen as Abdullah might be, as is Friedman, to neutralize Iranian and Syrian influence in the region and on the peace effort, he knows that ignoring them is delusional at best.

Hezbollah, now a legitimate party in Lebanese politics, is a creation of Iran, and one need only pay attention to one of Sheikh Nasrallah's titles (the leader of Hezbollah) to understand why Iran is crucial to any settlement that involves that group: "Representative of the Supreme Leader of The Islamic Revolution in Lebanon." That Supreme Leader was Ayatollah Khomeini when Hezbollah was created, and today it is Ayatollah Khamenei, which is one reason that wherever one goes in Hezbollah territory in the Levant, one sees posters of both men alongside Nasrallah's. (The Supreme Leader of Iran's title is not, as one might imagine, The Supreme Leader of Iran but The Supreme Leader of the Islamic Revolution.)

Hamas, which is impossible to defeat militarily (it is not an army; it is a political philosophy as much as a party, and that philosophy can only be defeated if it is shown to be illegitimate or a failure, which so far it hasn't, thanks to both Israel and the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank), and enjoys great support throughout the Muslim world, has Syria and Iran as almost its sole benefactors. Although Hamas the political party will make peace if it is in its interests, and will not always necessarily do Iran's or Syria's bidding, it will be exceedingly difficult to convince its leadership that it must agree to a two-state solution for Palestine and Israel as long as it continues to receive the kind of unfettered support it does from Iran and Syria.

It may be distasteful to Abdullah (and of course his friend Friedman) to invite the Iranians and Syrians to the negotiating table, for it would legitimize their involvement in the peace process which the U.S.-allied Arab states, Israel and the U.S. are loath to do, and it may the last thing in the world that will be considered. But sometimes the last thing in the world to consider is the only thing that can actually solve a problem.

Comments

[hollace]

What has happened in GAZA will affect a generation. I will never forget that innocent children were killed before they could undersand why. i will tell my children and i hope they tell their children these people were slaughtered.

[brooklyncitizen]

The most difficult is convincing Israel of a separate two state arrangement. Israel refuses to move its settlers or to stop building in the West Bank. Their recent offering at a solution will leave 230,000 settlers in West Bank alone and only move 60,000; there is also no right of return offer to the Palestinians whose homes were taken by Jews.
THe steady growth of Jewish settlers really betray the sincerity of an Israeli govt that claims it wants peace; what it wants is to drive the Palestinians completely out of the occupied territories.

[randyjet]

The writer has a major problem in that he proposes NO reason for Iran to agree to any peace. They have ALL the reason in the world to keep on supporting the hard liners since they will never bear any attack from Israel and so are safe from any retaliation. They get lots of rewards for their policies and I can see NO reason for them to change their behavior.

Syria can be brought into agreement with Israel by giving back the territory that they lost. As long as Israel has their territory, they will not sign any peace deal and will continue to support Hamas and the others. But that still leaves out Iran, and thus they will continue to support the die hards.

[aemathisphd]

But if Israel inks a deal with Syria, then Syria will stop funneling money through their country. Then how will Iran arm Hezbollah and Hamas? Airdrops? I don't think so.

[Antisighon]

Israel's intentions in the last gaza conflict had nothing to do with military goals.
They targeted mostly civilian infrastructure. They targeted schools, medical facilities, factories used for food production, and farms.

Please view this video. It shows that israel destroyed fully 50% of gaza farmland. They literally bombed fields, and bulldozed citrus trees, and green houses. Can anyone explain what could possibly be the reason for this besides destroying the Palestinians means of survival, and causing them misery?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsKtD2cvouk

[MagisterLudi]

Now for what Gazans do to their OWN infrastructure during peace. Did you protest that? lemme guess...
9/13/2005
NEVE DEKALIM, Gaza Strip (AP) — Palestinians looted greenhouses ... in a blow to fledgling efforts to reconstruct the Gaza Strip.

American Jewish donors had bought more than 3,000 greenhouses from Israeli settlers in Gaza for $14 million last month and transferred them to the Palestinian Authority.

Palestinian police stood by helplessly Tuesday as looters carted off materials from greenhouses in several settlements... In some instances... police even joined the looters, witnesses said.

This is just a joke," said Taysir Haddad, one of security guards "We've tried to stop as many people as we can, but they're like locusts.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-09-13-mideast_x.htm

c'est la vie c 'est la guerre

[CapitalistRebel]

Again, you only tell half the story.

As you may know, water is a scarce resource in Gaza. The greenhouses consumed massive amounts of it, while many Gazans were forced to live without any running water in their homes. The greenhouses were viewed as symbols of Israeli greed and their destruction was celebrated by many Palestinians in hopes that it signaled a move toward the equal distribution of resources.

[ZenJu]

Here's a possible logical solution: With some territorial adjustments and security guarantees, the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan annexes most of the West Bank; West Bank Arabs become Jordanian citizens and eligible to serve in government. Gaza becomes an Egyptian province, with Gaza citizens given Egyptian citizenship and eligible to serve in government and move into Egypt and beyond, if desired. Jews wishing to remain in the West Bank, in Jordanian areas, become Jordanian citizens, just as Israeli Arabs are citizens of Israel. Israel and Jordan share Jerusalem, with Israel maintaining full and complete access to the Western Wall and the Temple Mount (which is shared). The West Bank and Gaza are demilitarized. Israel, Egypt and Jordan already have peace treaties; each has experience in governing these areas; I think this is a real and hopeful possibility.

[arvay]

This is the old, tired Zionist "solution" that will never happen.

[MagisterLudi]

Zionist solution?
au contraire--- This was THE Arab solution.
Jordan annexed West Bank. No Arabs protested.
Egypt put Gaza under military rule. No Arabs protested.

Arab states NEVER, EVER give up land in their grasp.
Tthe ONLY reason we're even talking about Palestinian state is because Israel freed Gaza and West Bank from firm grasp of Egypt and Jordan. Hows that for astonishing cosmic irony!

[delayfx]

I think you're forgetting that Egypt and Jordan don't want the Palestinians as citizens any more than Israel does (for social, political, and economic reasons). Annexation of the Palestinian population is political suicide for *any* state.

[billybunterbatter]

Only because Abdullah ans Mubarak are paid off by the USA. The people of those nations would welcome the Palestinians with open arms. Its the leaders who are corrupt.

[Flyingpigs]

here's a two state solution: Gaza goes back to Egypt where all residents are then Egyptian and they can still as they do today speak Arabic in an Egyptian dialect. The West Bank will jointly controlled by both Israel and Jordan where Jews will retain their Israeli citizenship and Arabs will have once again their Jordanian citizenship reinstated and they can continual to speak in their Syrian dialect in Arabic. If the Jordan wishes it can call itself Palestine since was part of the Palestine Mandate and perhaps the Hashemite Bedouin King who's grandfather was Shiek (Later King) Abdullah from Arabia cousin of the Sheik Hashemite Faisel (later King) of the British creation now known as Iraq now abdicated. If not remain as Jordan. And since Jordan has had a de facto peace (Since the Israelis helped Jordan in its civil war w/ the PLO) later formal peace w/ Israel and have plans for many joint economic endeavors could extend t the west bank where all inhabitants both Jews and Arabs would benefit. The solution is simple but the method is like what Obama has continued to reply - RESPECT and not HATE!

[MagisterLudi]

I am not a great man. I am a failure, and you have made me one.
Bill Clinton, My Life autobiography, recalling his words to Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat after collapse of Middle-East peace process.

"I regret that in 2000 he missed the opportunity to bring that nation into being.
[I pray] for the day when the dreams of the Palestinian people for a state and a better life will be realised in a just and lasting peace."
President Bill Clinton

"There is no doubt that with the dea,th of Yasser Arafat an era has ended... for good or bad.
The biggest mistake of Arafat was when he turned to terror. His greatest achievements were when he tried to build peace."
Shimon Peres

I think history will judge Arafat very harshly for not having seized the opportunity in the year 2000 (at US-brokered peace talks) to embrace the offer that was very courageously made by the then Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak",
Australian Prime Minister John Howard

[Donatella]

Repeating propaganda does not make it true.

[MagisterLudi]

The judgment of history on Arafat has been made. Deal with it.

[arvay]

History has already judged Arafat very harshly for betraying his constituents with his corruption and incompetence. Their answer is Hamas.

[MagisterLudi]

Arafat missed the best chance Palestinains had to build a state in 2000.
Whatever else Arafat did, he will be forever branded with this label-- a man who let Palestinian state get away.
Palestinian answered with Hamas Israelis answered with Sharon.
The end of Palestinian state.
As a Hamas supporter you should be happy. I am not.

[randyjet]

The FACT is that Arafat did NOT turn down any peace proposal. He simply said that he had to go back and consult with the other PA leaders. After Camp David, he went to Barak's home and they DID get an agreement. The elections happened a few days after that, and Barak was out, as was the agreement. It should be remembered that the reason for that failure was the inability of Arafat or Barak to halt the suicide bombing campaign that Hamas staged. THAT is the reason for no peace agreement.

[MagisterLudi]

I think history will judge Arafat very harshly for not having seized the opportunity in the year 2000 (at US-brokered peace talks) to embrace the offer that was very courageously made by the then Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak",
Australian Prime Minister John Howard

[Hasur]

Australia, along with the US and Israel, show their commitment to peace every year by voting against United Nations General Assembly resolution entitled "Peaceful Settlement of the Palestine Question."

[MagisterLudi]

Hasur, so this is your best comeback--- to attempt to discredit President Clinton's sincerity to reach a compromise. Rather ineffective.

[AbrahamSadegh]

Let's consider a three state solution. If Gaza and the West bank decide later to form a union then an underground multi purpose rapid transit system between the West Bank and Gaza will solve the physical separation of the two.

Regarding Jerusalem. First of all it seems to me that every inch of the Earth and actually every atom in the Universe is holy in the sight of the LORD Almighty. Also for the prophets of the Tanakh, Christ, and Islam, the fundamental concepts are again universal and not bound by any location or human made structures.

Nevertheless, Jerusalem means a great deal to those professing to be Christians which constitute more than 1/3 of humanity (more than two billions), Muslims that constitute about 1/4 of Humanity (about 1.5 billions) and Jews that constitute less that 1/3 of 1% of humanity (about 20 million). Jerusalem belongs to the whole of humanity and should thus be an independent city-state as the Vatican except for the fact that the New Jerusalem would be a model democracy reflecting God's love for the crown of Its creation that – Darwin, by he way, must be in one of those mansions Christ spoke of because of his inspired discovery of the incredible evolutionary process - has so far not being able to utilize Its glorious gift of Omnipotence – freedom of choice – as intended.

Perhaps a commission set up by the United Nations can determine how of the New Jerusalem.

[sarale23]

A commission? By the United Nations?! You must be kidding...

[MagisterLudi]

Beautiful dream right out the Christian utopias.
Jerusalem Reality: Palestinains rioted when Israelis architects fixed a 20- foot tunnel bridge to facilitate tourists access.

[citizen77]

"It will be exceedingly difficult to convince Israel that it must agree to a two-state solution for Palestine and Israel as long as it continues to receive the kind of unfettered support it does from the U.S. and E.U."

Look at the other comments to see who won't compromise.

End the blockade. Israel must recognize Palestine's right to exist within secure borders.

[kerpin]

Great, and then we can all live together in peace and harmony. Kumbaya. lol.

[citizen77]

A thought experiment: If you were Israel and wanted to live in peace within the Arab world, what would you be doing? I submit it would be in Israel's long-term interest to assist in the creation of a successful Palestinian state and make the best peace it can.

As the world economy spirals down, massive military expenditures are less and less sustainable.

Israel can no more be "Jewish" and "Democratic" than South Africa could be "White" and "Democratic" (Not that I believe there are any democracies in the world).

[MagisterLudi]

Fact: Israel offered Palestinains two-solution.
Fact: Israel let in Arafat, an archenemy, and his military factions into territories.
Fact: NO ONE forced Israel to do this. PLO was down and out in Africa evicted from Jordan, Lebanon and Egypt having lost Kuwati Saudi help for backing Hussein.
Fact: This was done by dovish government of Israel with large support form Israeli peace movement in hopes of two-state reconciliation.
Fact:Israel gave Arafat W. Bank and Gaza to rule over.
Fact: Israel armed and trained Arafat and his paramilitaries.
Fact: Arafat become a welcomed guest in world capitals.
These facts are indisputable.
and.... BIG MISTAKE.
Arafat responses fulfilled every prediction of the Israeli right. From laundering international funds to backing terrorist campaigns to failing to negotiate in good faith with Clinton.
The world pays the price for this lack of statesmanship.

[billybunterbatter]

A very good article and someone who knows what hes talking about for a change.

[RightsAtty]

I'm strongly in favor of increased diplomacy and President Obama's initiative in opening dialogue with the Arab and Muslim worlds, but it is simply delusional to think that any purpose could be served by involving Iran in negotiations on the future of Palestine. Iran in its present incarnation is messianically committed to the destruction of the State of Israel. Involving it in discussions on relations between Israel and any proposed Palestinian entity would simply not further constructive discussion. You might just as well put Israel's messianic religious parties in the room with the Iranian mullahs and expect a rational discussion on a two state solution, when one side is convinced that if we tear down the Dome of the Rick and rebuild the temple, the Messiah will come, while the other awaits the return of the Mahdi.

[jollyelle]

sounds like you bought into the party, hook, line & sinker.

[pm247]

The problem with not involving Iran is that they would continue to fund Palestinian extremists regardless of any peace deal. Of course, that will probably happen no matter what.

Eventually, Israel will have to deal with Iran like they did the other Arab states in '67.

[Mollabaji]

Hooman has given the best assessment you can find. The garbage about "missiah" etc. is just that, garbage.

[MagisterLudi]

Aaronbridges posted;
"Arafat was never offered a fair deal. He was offered a sucker's deal".

Now for informed opinion:

"Camp David: The Tragedy of Errors"
By Hussein Agha, Robert Malley
Robert Malley, participated in the Camp David summit
Hussein Agha. Palestinian politician.
Quotes:
"Indeed, the Palestinians' principal failing is that from the beginning of the Camp David summit onward they were unable either to say yes to the American ideas or to present a cogent and specific counterproposal of their own"

President Clinton according to witnesses:
( To Principal Palestinians negotiator Abu Ala)
Clinton::"Don't simply say to the Israelis that their map is no good. Give me something better!"
When Abu Ala'a again balked,
Clinton:: "This is a fraud. It is not a summit. I won't have the United States covering for negotiations in bad faith. Let's quit!"
At the end of summit.
Clinton to Arafat:" "If the Israelis can make compromises and you can't, I should go home. You have been here fourteen days and said no to everything. These things have consequences; failure will mean the end of the peace process.... Let's let hell break loose and live with the consequences."

Israel agreed to:
Palestinian sovereignty over all Arab sectors of East Jerusalem.
Palestinian state covering roughly 95 % of West Bank and ALL of Gaza.
Swap of some of the occupied West Bank territory for land within Israel's 1967 borders,

Reality . Deal with it.

[billybunterbatter]

But what you fail to mention is that Israel were only prepared to give up 1% of their land in that deal and Arafat wisely said no.

[Hasur]

He usually fails to mention A LOT more then that...

[MagisterLudi]

"Arafat wisely said no."
Wisely?!
Oh, so you think what Palestinains have NOW is preferable?.... astonishing lack of perspective..

[CapitalistRebel]

You failed to mention the reason the Arafat rejected the deal:

"While the Israeli offer was far-reaching, it was not enough for the Palestinians, because it would not have allowed for a contiguous capital in East Jerusalem, the settlement clusters that Israel wanted to annex would have reduced contiguity in the West Bank, and Palestinian inability to control their borders and air space would have negated Palestinian sovereignty."

http://www.answers.com/topic/taba-negotiations

[BubbaC33]

Jerusalem is the Israeli capital and that is not a matter for negotiation.
Arafat had most of what he wanted and was beyond short-sighted to refuse the deal or to even offer a counterproposal.
Israel is not the obstacle to peace in the Middle East, that would be the Arabs.

[MagisterLudi]

Capitalist­Rebel:"You failed to mention the reason the Arafat rejected the deal."
OK, so 92% of W. Bank+ some land from Israel+contorl of ALL Arab and Christian Jerusalem+Gaza+ repatriation of refugees into Palestine+ some to Israel+ payment to the rest WASN"T GOOD ENOUGH?!
So because Arafat didn't get 100% of what he wanted, he had the right to revert to terrorism?!
AND YOU APPROVE OF THAT?
This is astonishing lack of perspective.
Is what Palestinains have NOW is better?

[Hasur]

MasterLundi also fails to mention that :
1) he does not really know who Hussein Agha is. He is a Senior Associate Member of St. Antony's College, Oxford, and not a Palestinian Politician.
2) he pretends to provide an informed opinion, yet his quotes are straight from the following book review:
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/14380
3) he picked quotes from this review to mislead in pretending to provide “an informed opinion”. For example he didn’t quote the following opinion of the reviewer:
“As orthodoxies go, this is a dangerous one. For it has larger ripple effects. Broader conclusions take hold. That there is no peace partner is one. That there is no possible end to the conflict with Arafat is another.
For a process of such complexity, the diagnosis is remarkably shallow. It ignores history, the dynamics of the negotiations, and the relationships among the three parties”
Or
“Worse, it acts as a harmful constraint on American policy by offering up a single, convenient culprit—Ar­afat—rathe­r than a more nuanced and realistic analysis.”

Is this your reality ML? ... come on, don't be shy ;)

[MagisterLudi]

I used quotations throughout . This, among literate people indicates cited material. My personal opnion was offered without quotation marks. Review basic rules at my alma mater: http://www.library.cornell.edu/resrch/citmanage/mla

Again, which part of the below is beyond comprehending?
Clinton to Arafat:" "If the Israelis can make compromises and you can't, I should go home. You have been here fourteen days and said no to everything. These things have consequences; failure will mean the end of the peace process.... Let's let hell break loose and live with the consequences."

[philonous]

Oh, I think Mr. Majd has it completely wrong. The time of the extremists is over, and all you have to do is read today's news out of Egypt to see that Iran's power grab is slowly uniting Arabs (perhaps even with Israel). If you'll pardon the plug:
http://payam.minoofar.com/2009/01/28/the-truth-about-israels-campaign-in-gaza/

What is happening in Gaza is a concerted action by Arab states in unity with Israel against Iran and fundamentalists. Egypt's public comments today assert essentially that. (Read the link above, and the Reuters article cited.)

[Cogitoe]

Like most Americans, I am fed up with 60 years of hopeless negotiations, repeated scenes of terrorism and poverty and endless foreign aide. I once supported a 3 state or 5 state solution, but Hamas, Iran and Syria will not rest until there is a 1 state solution. We will never abandon Israel to their idea of a 1 state solution so we might as well focus our efforts on a 1 state solution of our own.

For starts, make Jerusalem a UN protectorate open equally and on an undivided basis to all religions, sort of like D.C. (if Republicans and Democrats can live together, so can Jews and Muslims). Next, turn control of Palestine (Israel, Gaza and the West Bank) over to the U.S. as a self governing unincorporated territory of the U.S. (like Peurto Rico). Palestianian Arabs and Israeli Jews can live under our laws and protection and will be safer and more prosperous.

[jollyelle]

actually, there's some merit to this idea. Jerusalem is a universal city of peace belonging to everyone. Let the UN govern Israel for the next century, why should it fall under only our watch?
Arabs and Jews can definitely live together if given the opportunity. No one ethnicity has the right to their own country, the world is not divided like that anymore. Besides, there's no reason, Jewish people are not persecuted any more, the holocaust education has worked, it will never happen again, no one will ever forget the tragic event. Everyone lives everywhere nowadays.

[BubbaC33]

No, Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. NOt the capital of Arabia, Jordan, or any Arab entity. It is the Jewish capital. And here is why Israel can never give up control- from 1948 to 1967 the Arabs controlling parts of Jerusalem kept us from our holiest sites. All the talk about changing the status of Jerusalem is a non-starter.

[kerpin]

What planet are you visiting from, if I might ask?

[pm247]

The author is correct. Palestinian extremists have torpedoed the two-state peace process time and again. It served their purposes to continue playing the role of an "oppressed people" in order to justify their terrorist attacks. They will NEVER be satisfied short of Israel being wiped out and replaced with an Islamist theocracy.

[MagisterLudi]

The biggest problem that common Palestinains are buying into Hamas fairytale. Especially children.
Maybe because of TV programs like these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEB0SvMzKzg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIBNRVgq59Y

[aaronhbridges]

Every Arab nation and Hamas have agreed to peace in the form of 2-state solution with 1967 borders and compensated right of return for refugees. It is Israel which has never once made any concession and starts wars to stop any peace effort from succeeding because they want the West Bank.

[pm247]

The Arab nations that joined forces in 1967 to abolish Israel surrendered and GAVE UP the West Bank and Gaza. Those lands rightfully belong to Israel, no less than California belongs to the U.S.

Nonetheless, Israel

[MagisterLudi]

Hamas have agreed to peace in the form of 2-state solution"
You attempt to present your opnion as fact!
Now back it up. How about a few REPUTABLE links supporting your unsubstantiated claims.
BBC Interview with Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal:
Q: Do you accept Israel? Would you recognise them? Would you live in peace alongside them?
A: When Israel changes, come and ask me to change.

"Islamic Resistance movement (Hamas) in the Gaza Strip rejected on Tuesday all kinds of direct and indirect negotiations, talks or dialogues with the state of Israel."
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90777/6284475.html

[BubbaC33]

A two-state solution has been in existence since 1922. Over 70% of the proposed Jewish Homeland was taken to create Transjordan as a homeland for those Arabs unwilling to live among the Jews.