Why are Democrats so uniformly opposed to proof of citizenship in order to vote? They and their interest group surrogates insist there is no problem with voter security. But why should we believe this when we know illegal immigrants routinely lie to obtain employment? (Federal law requires employees to sign a document called an I-9 Form upon becoming employed swearing under penalty of perjury that he or she is authorized for employment, i.e., is a citizen or lawfully admitted alien and to provide two forms of ID to prove it.) I have seen thousands of bogus I-9 Forms signed by illegal immigrants and copies of their false social security cards in my RICO cases against employers who hire them. These false attestations are rarely prosecuted by federal authorities. And why would we think illegal immigrants, whose very presence in this country is a crime, would be above a little more crime in order to obtain employment?
Once that is understood, why would we think illegal immigrants would not also lie to obtain medical care in public hospitals, food stamps, unemployment benefits, and register to vote? Only two states actually require proof of citizenship in order to register (Arizona and Kansas). The others merely require the applicant sign a sworn statement attesting to the fact that he or she is a citizen. But this is what is asked, and routinely perjured, on the I-9 Form. Thus, it follows that false claims of citizenship in order to register to vote should be widespread. There are some media reports of non-citizens voting, but generally, the media have not investigated the problem in any depth compared to their obsession with the insurmountable problem Republicans will have with Hispanic "voters."
The perceived trouble Republicans face, we are constantly told, stems from the party's opposition to illegal immigration. And perhaps there is a kernel of truth to this theory. It stands to reason that illegal immigrants who are illegally registered to vote would have a very real stake in seeing to it that Republicans do not come to power with their far right ideas about requiring proof of citizenship to vote (which has been required since the founding of the Republic) and to be employed in this country. After all, if these laws were seriously enforced, it might be intolerable for illegal immigrants to live in the U.S. They would, presumably, lose employment, subsidized medical care, and the right to vote for candidates for will perpetuate such a way of life.
Democratic party spokesmen justify their opposition to laws requiring proof of citizenship in order to register to vote by the absurd claim that poor people do not have birth certificates or passports. But we require everyone, including the poor, to produce such documents when becoming employed for their I-9 Forms. And if that is tolerable, then it must also be tolerable for the same documents to be produced to register to vote and some sort of photo ID in order to vote.
There is a huge problem with voter fraud. And, in my opinion, it is proven by the vehemence of the Democrats, the beneficiaries of the fraud, toward enforcement of our laws.
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This are typical Republican tactics. Lie, blame the victims. Repeat and repeat.
"NBC-2 Tampa reporter Andy Pierrotti deserves serious kudos for conducting a two-month investigation that found non-citizens voting in Florida Elections. His report came just two days after the Tampa Bay Times claimed voter fraud in Florida was nonexistent.
One Naples voter admitted she was not a U.S. Citizen, nor a legal immigrant – but election records show she voted six times in the past eleven years.
The NBC2 investigators found the voter after examining “jury excusal” forms where a person said they couldn’t serve because they were not U.S. Citizens. They took those names and found dozens of those people in the database of Florida registered voters.
Since investigators only checked a very small sample of jury forms, one can only imagine how many thousands, or tens of thousands of illegals statewide who may have voted since the Motor Voter law was passed in 1993. Non-citizen voting is a Federal felony:
“This is under oath, that document, they are attesting that it is true and by falsifying, it’s a third degree felony,” said Tim Durham, Collier County’s deputy chief election supervisor."
http://standwitharizona.com/blog/2012/04/04/mass-illegal-alien-voter-fraud-uncovered-in-florida/
However, that is not the only place that fraud occurs. What about at the time of 'registration"????
Far to many people can just walk into a registration office and obtain a registration card without actually proving that they are a United States citizen. Shameful and scary. Liberals know this, that is why they are working so hard on keeping our attention focused on the 'show your ID' issue.
How can you look yourself in the mirror? You and I both know that these policies are a tactic to prevent low income people, the elderly and minorities from voting. These efforts are to minimize the people who are most negatively effected by the unfair, darwinian policies of the republican Party.
When you cannot have the truth on your side, when you know you cheated, you deny and lie.
Shame on you vonisse!
Well, I guess we know who's side your own. LOL
Just a couple of questions though please, does any of these low income people, elderly, or minorities ever hummmm, buy alcohol, buy cigarettes, apply for welfare, apply for food stamps, cash a check, open a bank account, rent an apartment, be admitted to a hospital, get a marriage license, buy sudafed, ship something, etc etc etc? Can you answer that? You would be hard pressed to say they do not do these things. How do they do these every day things that we all must do to get through life if they do not have a phote ID?
I manage to obtain and keep current my photo ID. I don't see the issue here.
http://www.electionintegritywatch.com/news-stories/
"Election Integrity Watch is a joint project of Minnesota Majority, Minnesota Voters Alliance, Freedom Council and the Northstar Tea Party Patriots. The project’s objective it to improve the overall integrity of elections in Minnesota by training thousands of voters on how to spot voter fraud and what to do about it when they do."
Minnesota Voters Alliance citizens’ group formed with the primary purpose of empowering the electorate. They are currently working to pass voter photo ID in both state and city government."
On the other hand, perhaps you'd like a different perspective about "Voter Fraud", "Voter ID Laws", "Voter Suppression", etc. from a non-partisan site:
-- The Real Fraud Behind Photo ID
http://www.brennancenter.org/blog/archives/the_real_fraud_behind_photo_id/
"Photo ID supporters routinely cry “fraud” as the reason for supporting new restrictions on access to the ballot. But the real fraud is in the repeated use of inaccurate, or just plain manufactured, claims about voter fraud that just aren’t happening. The reality? Voter fraud is as likely to happen as getting struck by lightning. But if you listen to photo ID supporters, you’d think every rain drop represents a stolen vote."
ID is easy to obtain and even the poor who can't afford the money can get it through programs offered by most states. Some help obtain proper documents.
Black people deterred from voting by ID? Really? As often as police harass black people, their ID is always up to date. They'll vote to unseat the GOP who run the state. Diebold disenfranchises them.
Students? Depends on where they're from. American students can register through their school. Non-citizen foreign students will not be given a citizen type ID or it will be noted they are ineligible for voting. They're usually honest so probably won't try to vote.
There's no reason for anyone not to be able to present ID if they want to vote.
So to those here who insist it will keep huge numbers (or any number. One for instance) of people who don't have and can't get ID from voting, please back up THOSE assertions.
Whether fraud exists is irrelevantl. ID is used for almost any transaction in citizens lives. Voting is a scared privilege reserved to citizens. There is no sin in being asked to prove you are who you say you are to do it.
* As many as 10% of eligible voters do not have, and will not get, the documents required by strict voter ID laws. For some groups, the percentage is much higher.
* ID requirements fall hardest on people who have traditionally faced barriers at the polls.
* ID requirements are not justified by any serious or widespread problem.
* There is no reason for states to implement burdensome ID requirements.
* States that do require proof of identity at the polls should permit an expansive range of proof.
http://www.brennancenter.org/content/resource/policy_brief_on_voter_identification/
http://www.brennancenter.org/content/resource/voting_law_changes_in_2012
http://www.brennancenter.org/blog/archives/debunking_misinformation_on_photo_id/
Costs and Viable alternatives:
http://www.brennancenter.org/content/resource/the_cost_of_voter_id_laws_what_the_courts_say/
http://www.brennancenter.org/content/pages/voter_registration_modernization
http://www.brennancenter.org/page/-/d/download_file_10057.pdf
Specific Examples of Disenfranchisement:
http://www.lwv.org/content/statement-elisabeth-macnamara-president-lwvus-forum-entitled-excluded-democracy-impact
http://electionlawblog.org/archives/07-25rb.pdf
I know how to research a topic and I see no evidence that you did at all. A good place to start is:
http://www.brennancenter.org/
"The Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law is a non-partisan public policy and law institute that focuses on the fundamental issues of democracy and justice."
MYTH: There Is Widespread Voter Fraud Due To Undocumented Immigrants Voting
FACT: There Is "Virtually No Evidence" Of Widespread Voter Fraud And Non-Citizen Voting Is Even Rarer
"During An Aggressive Campaign By The Bush Administration To Go After Illegal Voting, "Only 14 Federal Convictions For Voter Fraud Involving Non-Citizens."
http://politicalcorrection.org/factcheck/201112190005
"Given that the penalty (not only criminal prosecution, but deportation)130 is so severe, and the payoff (one incremental vote) is so minimal for any individual voter, it makes sense that extremely few noncitizens would attempt to vote, knowing that doing so is illegal."
http://www.truthaboutfraud.org/pdf/TruthAboutVoterFraud.pdf
I hope your next Opinion piece will be informed and researched, rather than another unsubstantiated piece. If that seems unduly harsh, consider that erroneous opinion is the same as FACT for the lazy who seek merely to enforce preconceived and erroneous biases. One such person gleefully posted your opinion to :validate" her incessant ("Liberals are stupid", "Democrats steal elections", etc.) screeds. For those who feed on misinformation and lies, you certainly tossed out a Happy Meal today.
http://www.electionintegritywatch.com/news-stories/
The "proof" you posted is from an organization with biased political backing, a partisan agenda and engages in dubious practices, thus not a very credible source for fair and factual information . From their own "About" page:
"Election Integrity Watch is a joint project of Minnesota Majority, Minnesota Voters Alliance, Freedom Council and the Northstar Tea Party Patriots. The project’s objective it to improve the overall integrity of elections in Minnesota by training thousands of voters on how to spot voter fraud and what to do about it when they do."
--The Tea Party's Election Spies
"In Minnesota, for example, the tea party-backed Election Integrity Watch has issued guidelines for its volunteer poll watchers that push the envelope of what's permitted under state election law, raising concerns that activists could end up violating voters' rights—intentionally or not."
-- The Tea Party's Election Spies
http://motherjones.com/politics/2010/10/tea-party-election-spies
-- Suppressing the Vote
http://www.thenation.com/article/155728/suppressing-vote
You have no right to fly. You have a right to vote that some folks are over-intent on restricting-- for political gain. That's the difference.
There is nothing wrong with being ID'ed to vote. Cajuns can't live without ID; They have to present it to buy beer. And even if there is not a lot of vote fraud, this policy makes sure of it.
Driving a car, opening a bank account, getting a debit card, applying for/using a credit card, applying to college, applying for a loan, purchasing insurance, applying for welfare, applying for unemployment, purchasing a firearm, cashing a check, boarding a commercial airline, joining the military, ordering an alcoholic beverage, purchasing a bus ticket, entering a major amusement park.
Stating "there's absolutely no proof" is a red herring, as the voting system is currently set up to not require proof.
Proof that there's no voter fraud, just like proof that there is voter fraud, is not collected by the government.
Just because something isn't collected doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Earlier in this thread (approval pending at the time I'm writing this) I posted a number of investigations indicating voter fraud is occurring, please have a look. I won't spam the thread by re-posting that list.
Once you frame the lie, everything else makes your argument easier.
It's the Rush Limbaugh version of discussion.
Funny that 7 different state Attorney Generals (both Democrat and Republican, including South Carolina’s) have stated that they could find no actual verifiable evidence of it.
The only verified case I’ve seen was a right wing movie maker committing voter fraud to prove it could possibly be done.
He makes the argument that since they are illegal aliens, they will break more laws when law enforcement statistics show that illegal aliens actually have a lower crime rate than citizens.
That's a flat lie, but you are likely right that: "Once you frame the lie, everything else makes your argument easier."
Most state and local governments never track crimes committed by illegal aliens as a separate category - it's easier for the illegal alien supporters to lie about it if there's no hard data. A few years back, Arizona passed a state law denying bail to illegal aliens and that law requires that legal status in the US be determined before anyone gets bail. As a result of that law, we have hard data about illegal alien crime rates in Arizona.
It's absolutely no surprise that people dishonest (and often criminal) enough to be here illegally DO commit more crimes (duh) and are in prison in much higher numbers than their percentage of the population (including for violent crimes like murder and kidnapping):
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20011391-10391695.html
As for voter fraud, here's some data from an NBC station in Florida- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaUsT9MLMlA
It appears that many people were registered to vote just by checking a box on a form, with no one making any attempt to ever verify citizenship status. It's also clear that people dishonest enough to come/stay, drive, work, evade taxes, etc. here illegally are more than dishonest enough to break any other law they choose to disregard. The people who DO have lower crime rates than citizens here are LEGAL immigrants, not the dishonest and often criminal foreign nationals here illegally (many breaking laws every day, year in and year out).
If a citizen needs ID in those and many more instances, what is so hard about presenting it to perform the most sacred act you do a a member of a free society?
During W's admin, ICE raided a Tyson Foods plant and arrested ~2200 illegals. Federal law states that employers must have on file copies of I-9's, green cards, etc. or be fined $5000 or 5 years in jail per occurrance. Tyson did not have the federally required documents (forged or otherwise) on file but never paid a dime in fines. Why? The only conclusion is that Tyson is big business and a big repub party supporter.
This scenario is much like the HCA medicare fraud where no individual was held personally responsible for the acts of the corporation they controlled. Why, repubs of course.
It goes on and on. Big business (repubs), agriculture & food processing mainly, benefit from illegal immigration but the repubs blame dems for the magnets. Incredible hypocrisy.
Generally, when you want to argue a point, you provide what is known as evidence. I guess the bar exam must be on a sliding scale these days.