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Howard Schweber

Howard Schweber

Posted April 23, 2009 | 03:23 PM (EST)

Torture and the Problem of Constitutional Evil: The Way Forward


A year ago, in a blog post at Balkinization.com, Mark Graber discussed John Yoo's role as an example of what he has called "the problem of Constitutional Evil." Graber's point is that the assumption that anything that is "evil" is therefore contrary to the dominant understanding of the Constitutional is simply wrong. This is not an argument he makes lightly; Graber is the author of Dred Scott and the Problem of Constitutional Evil, a magisterial work that makes the case in historical context; orthodox, authoritative, widely accepted understandings of the Constitution may nonetheless permit actions that deserve to be described as "evil."

We may, in fact, be about to see a small example of the phenomenon in action; based on the oral arguments, it appears that the current Court is inclined to accept the proposition that an 8th grade girl can be strip searched by school officials based on nothing more than an unsubstantiated tip that she might have Ibuprophen on her person. If the link between that case and questions like torture seems far-fetched, consider the fact that in Fredrick v. Morse -- the "Bong Hits for Jesus" case -- the brief on behalf of the school district argued that the courts should give school officials unfettered discretion to determine the limits of students' free speech on the grounds that such officials "operate daily on the front lines of public education." Truly, nothing is more dangerous to liberty than the abuse of language for political ends. George Orwell warned us about that danger; so did Thucydides.

I am a great admirer of Graber and Balkin. And a few months ago I wrote a post presenting the case against prosecution of Bush administration officials for violations of the Constitution per se. Recognizing the possibility that a perfectly orthodox constitutional interpretation can nonetheless lead to evil results would seem to support an argument for accepting John Yoo's (in)famous assertion that his work in the Bush administration and that of Bybee, Addington, and others, was nothing worse than creative constitutional interpretation. "Creative lawyering" is considered high praise in the law business. And after all, John Yoo's assertion of unlimited executive authority in a time of crisis is not entirely dissimilar to Truman's assertion of an inherent executive power to seize control of the steel industry during the Korean conflict. That action was ruled unconstitutional, but of course the Court might have ruled the other way. Finally, it was no less a authority than Chief Justice Charles Evans Hughes who told us that "We are under a Constitution, but the Constitution is what the judges say it is."

In light of all that, I stand by the proposition that neither the conclusion that an administration has done evil nor even the conclusion that an administration has acted in violation of the Constitution is a warrant for criminal prosecution.

But there's more. There is also the whole idea of the special role of lawyers. A few months ago I attended a conference in Jerusalem at which Natan Sharansky gave an address. During the question-and-answer period that followed, he was asked a question about the role of law. His answer was entirely dismissive: "we have lawyers," he said (I am paraphrasing from memory) "and they can justify anything." Sharansky's view is widely accepted in many law schools; in fact, distinguished American law and society scholars in the room chimed in to lend their support to the idea that "law" has no meaning independent of the actions of lawyers. And President Obama has indicated that government agents who acted on the advice of legal counsel should not be subject to prosecution for their acts, presumably based on the assumption that accepting the advice of a lawyer is evidence that the agent had no intent to violate the law.

So there's the argument against prosecutions in a nutshell: acts which are morally repugnant are not necessarily unconstitutional, acts which are unconstitutional do not necessarily warrant prosecutions, the intervention of lawyers provides cover against accusations of lawless conduct. It is also quite true that some of the Democratic members of Congress who are grandstanding these issues today were at least partially aware of the interrogation tactics that were being employed, and found no reason to complain at the time.

Is that it? Is that all there is? I hope not, because somewhere in this discussion I have developed an overwhelming urge to throw up. But how do we move forward without ignoring the realities of constitutional evils, the wrongheadedness of equating all constitutional violations with criminally culpable conduct, or the special role of lawyers in our legal system? How do we deal with the issue of torture?

The way forward, I think, is to get out of talking in terms of a single category of analysis. There are at least three distinct categories of issues involved here: there are technical legal issues, there are political issues, and there are deep questions about the relationship between "law" and "lawyers" in the American system. And there are at least three distinct categories of actors, too: the interrogators, the policymakers, and the lawyers. And then, there are at least three distinct audiences whose reactions we should care about: the legal professionals, the American public, and the rest of the world.

Let's talk about the lawyers, first. I have read all the memos as they have come out, going back to the very first unauthorized releases of the memos outlining a theory of inherent executive authority drawing on Justice Sutherland's 1936 opinion that described the president's authority in wartime as directly inherited from the King of England. I still don't know whether any of the authors of these memos can be reasonably charged with conspiracy to overthrow the Constitution or to commit torture. But if "the rule of law" is to mean anything, the term "lawyer" cannot simply mean "one who justifies any action" in the ultimately cynical way that Sharansky described it. We give lawyers special privileges, special immunities, and special authority, and we allow non-lawyers to rely on legal advice and to claim that advice as a protection. That is as it should be, but the consequence is that lawyers are supposed to be held to standards of ethical and professional responsibility. It is exactly the same equation that we make when we allow charitable institutions to operate without paying taxes: the benefit goes with the assumption that the public good is being served.

Based on the evidence that is publicly available, I have no hesitation in asserting that Judge Bybee should be subjected to impeachment proceedings, and that Bybee, Yoo, Addington et. al. should face disbarment proceedings to determine whether they have violated their fundamental professional responsibilities. Not because the actions they justified were evil, and not even because the actions they justified were unconstitutional, but because they used their art to creatively discover hitherto unknown ways to find justifications for evil and unconstitutional actions. To quote the motto of my alma mater, "law without morality is vain"; a person who is incapable of assuming the responsibility for that proposition is unfit for the legal profession. There's a movie about this: it's called Judgment at Nuremburg.

What about the interrogators? I believe that we need a Truth Commission, to be called just that. The connection to previous Truth Commissions in Guatemala, South Africa, and elsewhere is deliberate. The world no longer take seriously any claim of American moral exceptionalism; at this point we must strive to reassure the world that America seeks to be a member of the family of civilized nations. That requires historical memory, a uniquely public and uniquely political form of knowledge. Peggy Noonan's call for unknowing, the suggestion that "sometimes in life you want to just keep walking" is anathema to the fundamental premise of a democracy. Like a free press and open elections, public knowledge and public acknowledgment of recent history is a basic precondition for the exercise of popular sovereignty. If the results of such a Truth Commission are to be criminal prosecutions, these should be reserved to commanders who are shown to have given or obeyed orders they knew to be illegal. "Illegal orders" is not a new or strange concept, it is a mainstay of military law.

And the policymakers? The Rumsfelds and Wolfowitz's who formulated the policies and gave the orders? It may well be that the law cannot reach those officials directly. But there should be investigations into lying to Congress, among other possible offenses, to be conducted under independent, non-partisan auspices; Carl Levin's suggestion of using retired federal judges might be a good place to start.

The case against prosecutions for evil actions or for violations of the Constitution per se stands; that is the problem of constitutional evil. The case for a public accounting and acknowledgment of those same actions gains weight by the day; that is we owe to ourselves, and what we ought to want to show to the world. And the case for some kind of action being taken against the lawyers who were involved is inescapable. These are the beginning of a way forward.

A year ago, in a blog post at Balkinization.com, Mark Graber discussed John Yoo's role as an example of what he has called "the problem of Constitutional Evil." Graber's point is that the assumption ...
A year ago, in a blog post at Balkinization.com, Mark Graber discussed John Yoo's role as an example of what he has called "the problem of Constitutional Evil." Graber's point is that the assumption ...
 
 
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12:51 PM on 04/26/2009
Professor Schweber wants us to believe that we live in a country where our leaders can break the law and violate the Constitution with impunity. Certainly, the Republic can survive state-sponsored torture in wartime. But forget torture. The real issue here is whether the President and those he commands are above the law. If we have no recourse when laws passed by the Legislature can be ignored by the Executive, it's all over. We’re talking felonies here: kidnapping, murder and torture. You can add tapping our phones without warrents, which is also against the law. All these are illegal, unconstitutional acts by a president who claimed virtually unlimited executive power in wartime and acted on it. All we have to remember is this: the law is the law. If we simply enforce the law, the Constitution will take care of itself.
08:10 PM on 04/24/2009
I've read and re-read this and still I'm not getting Prof Schwebers point (or maybe I am).

Many acts inherent to war are evil, but not illegal. Examples previously cited include Lincolns suspension of habeas corpus (which although DinkSinger said was "carefully constitutionally framed" was nonetheless overturned by Justice Taney); detention of combatants with no recourse for years on end in accordance with article 5 of Geneva Convention III; and civilian casualties incurred when military objectives are located within populated areas. Nobody is debating the "evil" of these acts or the "evil" of the so-called enhanced interrogation techniques.

Prof Schweber denigrates justification of evil as "creative lawyering". But since clearly not all evil is illegal - this "evil" to which Prof Schweber speaks must therefore be a matter of degree. Once that subjective standard is introduced, we must then balance the "evil" of actions against the greater "evil" which it combated. Would it have been evil to assassinate Hitler in 1939? It would have been illegal...

His argument seems to support relativism - evil is the new legal standard. But if an "evil" act can be justified by preventing a greater evil, is it still illegal?
07:15 AM on 04/25/2009
Isn't there a difference between "justified" and breaking the law? If the law were "THOU SHALT NOT KILL", but you kill to prevent a "greater evil", have you not still broken the law? Would that not be a mitigating factor on your degree of guilt and your sentence, even though you are still GUILTY?
09:09 AM on 04/25/2009
SO the professors very justification for bringing charges would also result in mitigation of their culpability... whats the point?
11:50 AM on 04/24/2009
Look around, the world is burning and we live in relative heaven, why? the powerful protections and balances that were in our Constitution. The best of Christian values, and historical evidence went into creating this masterpiece against mankind's ability to pervert any religion or governmental system.
Why do self-serving, selfish, evil minded people hate our Constitution and keep devising ways to dilute the protctions? because it works. The time it was written, slavery and other society evils had too many powerful supporters, so the Founders probably knew that the built in priciples would eventually eliminate them also.
However, as always humans have found out how to bend the best to their personal goals, and the reulsting distortions created corruption, which was so systemic and the attack was so creative and systemetic, that we almost lost our heaven.
No matter which party, religion or any designation, we will find good and evil, but 200+ years of experience tells us don't mess with a good thing. The Constitution allows us the peace to practice our religions, our humanity to the best we can, what can you substitute it with? one single religion, any one ism? been there done that---
The biblical priciples and historical lessons enshrined in this document have allowed this nation to be what it is today. The evils of society that orthodox religious observers dislike, would be even worse if they would replace this document---just look at the world around and history.
08:21 PM on 04/24/2009
You are assuming that its only one side bending the laws for their own use. Both the law makers and people who challenge the constitution want to "personalize" the constitution. Even though the constitution was made with Christian values in mind obviously not everyone is going to agree so it is fair to give everyone the right to contest those laws. There is no such thing as a law not being affected by the writers bias, if everything is done with bias. Even you are biased because you may have Christian values and they may work for you but what if they don't work to Jane Doe next to you. What you think works may just be an illusion of effectiveness and efficiency in our society.
08:28 PM on 04/24/2009
Oh, here is a link, since your big on Christianity working for the system,
http://www.radicalacademy.com/philsophists.htm

"Man is the measure of all things, of those that are in so far as they are,
and those that are not in so far as they are not."-Protagoras

Even the philosophers realized that one pattern of thinking couldn't and wouldn't work for eveyone because out thinking is limited on our experiences.
10:41 AM on 04/24/2009
Cheney, and all those who are either afraid for themselves or the culpability of their party, are trying to draw "red herrings" across the debate on torture. The argument that "the end justifies the means" was not valid when the Nazis, the Chinese, the Japanese, the Spanish Inquisition, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, or even US soldiers and US law officials used it! Torture is a crime. It is also a War Crime.
It appears that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Condaleesa Rice, Wolfowitz, and the cabal of attorneys and officials who drafted the Torture Memos, approved them, and passed them on for action cannot be prosecuted at the International Courts in the Hague. We therefore have to do it ourselves. Let the Attorney General and Coalition Partners appoint 3 neutral retired Judges with impeccable records, selected from the US, UK, and another from the coalition in Iraq or Afganistan to hear the cases like the Nuremburg Trials.
The USA must purge itself of this awful stain - just as we did for post World War 2 Germany and Japan.
07:22 AM on 04/25/2009
THEY BROKE THE LAW...THEY MUST PAY!!!
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
luckyt
10:33 AM on 04/24/2009
The problem with America is and has always been congruency. America is a Constitutional Democracy and most of its citizens are Christians, meaning that they are beholden to the laws of the Constitution and the tenets of the Bible and its Commandments. Even Non-Christians are beholden to the Constitution and most believe in a God. Since its inception our Country has produced leaders that neither follow the laws of the Constitution or the Laws of God. The reason being is that we are nominal as to who we are. The intention was never to create a nation with justice and equality for all and humanity. Thus far the policy in our country has been and it seems like it will continue to be under It's time for Change Obama, its OK for government to commit it's atrocities in the course of doing the business of the people like the institutionalization of slavery, it does not matter whether it was right or wrong as long as we are going in the right direction now. I am sure that was said after Watergate, Iran Contra, and the last one hundred years of American intervention and overthrow of foreign governments. As long as America continues to try to hide its dirty secrets we will never be free of tyrannical leaders like George W. Bush and we will continue to repeat our mistakes of the past.
07:24 AM on 04/25/2009
Unfortunately...YOU are probably correct.
07:59 AM on 04/24/2009
The word "morality" is typically used in discussing waterboarding as torture. It seems in not only this discussion but others there is a call for America to regain some lost morality due to waterboarding terrorists. I submit that any country that can bend its constitution to include unborn genocide and rampant porn has limited moral grounds on which to stand. So who is defining morality in this discussion?
07:26 AM on 04/25/2009
So how did we go from TORTURE...to ABORTION/ GENOCIDE and PORN???
02:39 PM on 04/25/2009
Maybe Nuwayner missed the number of times "evil" was mentioned by the good professor. Evil is in the eye of the beholder.
01:39 AM on 04/24/2009
This is a Democrat against Republican thing....as usual...

What is the word that is always used in Washington....

Let me see....oh I remember...flawed...

THE WHOLE GOVERNMENT IS FLAWED.....
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
gevan
Give bees a chance
12:03 PM on 04/24/2009
As if the Republican Party is for overturning 200 plus years of Constitutional law? That may be true, but I hope it isn't. The GOP's mirror gazers in the Congress aren't the be all and end all of Republicanism. Some segment of that once great party must remain true to its roots.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
dianhow
former Repub till W
12:24 PM on 04/24/2009
I do not even recognize the GOP anymore. They've become greedy- unethical in their dealings. They have moved to the extreme right. Palen / Beck / Limbaugh etc are saying
some real weird stuff and they smear and call Obama names -like 3 rd graders.
They lost ther election they had power 20 of the last 28 years - so step aside and give someone else a chance- the GOP trashed our economy with Reagan / / Bush deregulation policy -huge tax cuts - 2 wars that led us to disaster.
07:28 AM on 04/25/2009
I did not know that the application of THE LAW depended on PARTY AFFILIATION or PERSONAL PRINCIPLES.
01:29 AM on 04/24/2009
I hate Bush. I am a proud Democrat, but this torture stuff seems to be a bit crap. Who cares? So what if they did you waterbording or sleep deprevation. So what? It seems to me that there are a lot more things to worry about then this crap—like the economy. I'm still unemployed after a whole year. This stuff is not a priority.
07:30 AM on 04/25/2009
It's called MULTITASKING...Good luck with the job thing!!!...Seriously
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Querent
I say the things that have to be said.
11:01 PM on 04/23/2009
This is all just a bunch of incoherent blabber designed to lead to the conclusion that Bush was a good guy. Bull.
07:31 AM on 04/25/2009
BUSH was a GOOD GUY!!!...He was just a really poor PRESIDENT.
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Romeover
Civilization is for weaklings.
07:06 AM on 04/26/2009
It's hard to remember George Bush mocking Karla Faye Tucker and still believe that he is a "GOOD GUY".
10:17 PM on 04/23/2009
We, the people, will, one day, bring the legal corrupters of our great constitution to task and we will demand to know why their games are permitted by our elected officials. That day starts now and it starts with Judge Vlad the impaler.

That so many of our sons and daughters have died so that legislators, judges, and lawyers can do their dance while trampling our beloved constitution, is abhorrent to anyone who dearly loves the document not for its every word because nothing but God is perfect; but, for the beauty of its intent and promise. Admonishment against cruel and unusual punishment is there but lawyers like Judge Vlad the Impaler never see that part. They surrender their scruples for Federal posts.

All lawyers will one day understand this: we, the people, love our rights and we cling to morality like no tomorrow--it's why we endure the deaths of our sons and daughters. At the risk of everything you hold dear, Mr. Lawyer, you must respect our constitution, its intent and its promise.
07:32 AM on 04/25/2009
WELL SAID!
09:05 PM on 04/23/2009
"And the policymakers? The Rumsfelds and Wolfowitz's who formulated the policies and gave the orders? It may well be that the law cannot reach those officials directly. But there should be investigations into lying to Congress, among other possible offenses ..."
I disagree with the author this notion (quoted above) as it appears that there is an emerging picture that policymakers willfully made false that, as a consequence, defamed America, robbed it of its' treasure and unneccessarily killed and maimed thousands more of it's citizenry when they ordered the military into an unwarranted Persian campagin. I trust that there will be "creative lawyering" to bring these policymakers to task, despite the braying that ... "it was the times we were in that made us take the steps we did". Its beginning to appear that that also wasn't entirely true.
08:27 PM on 04/23/2009
You ignore your own point: Historical memory.

We've already been through everything that happened in our treatment of the detainees. After World War II, we prosecuted Japanese Soldiers for inflicting on our Soldiers the very same things we inflicted on the detainees.

We convicted them.

So if it was torture when they did it to us, how is it something other than torture when we did it to them?

Historical memory. We all knew that we weren't supposed to do that. Therefore, any claim of "just following orders" or "creative lawyering" doesn't wash.

Everyone involved from Bush down to England need to learn what it's like to fill the hours from a small cell in a jail.

Every single one of them. There is simply no excuse.
07:34 AM on 04/25/2009
GOOD COMMENT!!!
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
paulita
Progress is an evolutionary process
08:05 PM on 04/23/2009
In the 1940s, Theologian Dietrich Bonhoeffer joined the resistance movement with a plot to get rid of Adolph Hitler. A remarkable story because Rev. Bonhoeffer was from a rich German family, looked aryan had an aryan noble background. He could have easily sat the war out or reap rewards but with remarkable courage he fought against evil. Imprisoned right before the war ended and tortured he wrote:


“Torture is, in any case, generally an ineffectual means for discovering the truth...
physical torture inflicts the most extreme dishonour on the human being, and consequently engenders an intense hatred and the natural bodily impulse to restore this wounded honour by the application of bodily force. Bodily dishonour seeks to avenge itself on the body of the infamous tormentor. In this way the violation of man’s bodily freedom once again destroys the foundations of society”
– Bonhoeffer, D., _Ethics_ (London: Collins 1964), p. 185.

There is no gray area here as some are trying to portray and further the foundation of our society is threatened if we do not insist upon morality and accountability.
07:35 AM on 04/25/2009
If anyone is interested, there is actually a good movie about Bonhoeffer and his efforts. Worth watching,
07:03 PM on 04/23/2009
OK, if I can find a shyster lawyer to tell me that Bank of America, Goldman, etc, by taking our Treasury money and paying out $50 million bonuses to their worthless exectuives, are in the midst of an ongoing criminal activity AND if I go down to the bank with a gun and get my money they and their hedge fund managers stole neither me nor my lawyer are legally liable? Sounds like my financial crisis has been solved. Shysters, please call.
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moonglowsun
Humanitarian
05:50 PM on 04/23/2009
How right you are! Every Justice who warped the constitution to do the bidding of the Bush Administration, every attorney who pressured them in the name of the administration, every advisor in the Bush Administration who stood behind the use of torture, and every Rep or Dept head, i.e. Condie Rice, needs to face the full weight of the law for their part in sanctioning such human rights violations and the blotch on our nation's history. If I had my way, both Bush and Cheney would too. Who knows...maybe they will break and tell us the extent of their misconduct. Wishful thinking.
02:22 PM on 04/26/2009
If you was in Bush ,Cheney shoes what would you have done.Keep in mind that your fellow democrats are calling for harsher treament on the ememy.don't lie