Arianna on Countdown Debunking Right Wing Accusations of Obama's Illegitimacy

Arianna joins Keith Olbermann to talk about the Supreme Court's refusal to hear a lawsuit on whether Obama is a natural-born citizen, and whether accusations of illegitimacy from the far Right will follow Obama throughout his presidency.

Comments

[hurst198]

With regard to the Supreme Court's denial of Leo Donofrio's application for an emergency stay of the Electoral College vote, we may at least thank Mr. Donofrio for shedding light on the origin of the phrase "natural born citizen" in the U.S. Constitution.

Emerich de Vattel was a Swiss jurist, whose textbook "The Law of Nations" was highly influential in the period from 1758 to 1900. The Founding Fathers were very familiar with Vattel, who stated "natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens."

Ben Franklin wrote of Vattel's book, "It . . has been continually in the hands of the members of our Congress.” The librarian at Carpenters Hall reported that Vattel was the primary source read by the delegates of the Continental Congress. Chief Justice John Marshall quoted from Vattel more than from any other author.

Vattel's definition was repeated by the Supreme Court in Minor v. Happersett (1885): “It was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves . . . natural-born citizens.”

Furthermore, in U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark (1898) Justice Gray re-affirmed the Minor v. Happersett interpretation: “In Minor v. Happersett, Chief Justice Waite . . . said: ‘The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that.’ And he proceeded to resort to the common law as an aid in the construction of this provision.”

[Azrblogger]

All the blogging on either side of the issue will mean nothing other that to shape perhaps the minds of the potential jurors.

The issue of concern before the court will either be considered or it won't. If the proponents of the issue succeed in getting their day in court the Jurors will address an issue that is very Unique indeed. Of all the political offices the presidency follows both the same path as a local alderman to get elected and the unique path of the single nationally elected office.

This path is called the candidate filing form. One thing is for certain, neither Barack Obama nor any of the other candidates were required to provide any documentation of proof of birth, proof of parentage, or birth location on any candidate form. It simply doesn't exist in any state in the Union. Its not part of the Federal election commission rules or regulations. Its not even explicitly required in the constitution.

If any real benefit can come from this is that both federal and state authorities need to enact legislation.The party's also need to adopt rules that require proof of birth, finger printing,and credit reports. They also need to adopt rules that compel the testing of a candidates biometrics and a background check. The current form and practices are a travesty and as such now has Barack under the gun.

Most private firms require a relinquishment of privacy but election officials don't.

[evekendall]

The U. S. Constitution provides the basic legal framework of our government. The U. S. Code is the codification of the permanent federal law of the United States.

It appears from U. S. Code that there can be only two categories of U. S. citizenship:
--citizens of the United States who are citizens at birth (natural-born or native-born citizens)
--citizens of the United States who were not citizens at birth (nationalized citizens)

The following Section 1401 of Title 8 defines who are U. S. citizens at birth:
U. S. CODE > TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER III > Part I > § 1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at birth
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/1401.html

The following Section 1101 of Title 8 defines the words "national" and "alien":
U. S. CODE > TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER I > § 1101. Definitions
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/1101.html

[learnsomething]

I am so very happy Barack Obama is our new president. I am so proud of my fellow Americans who gave him the overwhelming victory.

[learnsomething]

Why are you people arguing with these ignoramuses. They are just SORE LOSER!

[in4success]

if they were "just sore losers" ignoring them would be reflexive. --they are far more than that. those who can recall kennith star and the multi-millions of tax payer money spent by the GOP "shadow government" to take down bill clinton and reclaim power know what's coming. the politics of destruction is the GOP's ONLY mastery.

[Aranxa]

So many poster ask questions like "Where is this inanity coming from?" Besides coming from just plain right wing, wingnuts, it's also stoked by the people who ask me for my "green card" when they find out my father was Puerto Rican.
More people than you think really don't have a clue.

[TootsieII]

They ask for your "green card"? That is truly deep. Sounds like something Sarah Palin would say.

[Dissident Dexter]

To quote the knuckle draggers in 2000: GET OVER IT, MOVE ON!

[in4success]

like everything else GOP: that only applies to the rest of us.

[yvetteb6374]

This is ridiculous..Its simple, If you were born in America then you are an American citizen. This is like discussing why 1 plus 1 equals 2....Writing out the family tree should only come into play if you were not born on US soil, in order to figure out if someone is legitimate. But people are making up scenarios to legitimize an argument to question President Elect Obama citizenship. These nuts that's obsessed with this have to much time on their hands.

[rwt1138]

Not to nitpick, but being born on American soil isn't a requirement. John McCain wasn't, Mitt Romney's father wasn't, Barry Goldwater wasn't, but all of them were eligible. It's being born a citizen that counts, which he was under any proposed scenario.

That's the part that makes every "challenge" so ridiculous: That even if every "claim" these idiots are making were proven 100% true, he'd STILL be eligible as a natural born citizen.

Which means it is, as I satirically posted on another site, like trying to make an argument that Boba Fett wasn't proven to be a clone of Jango Fett and therefore isn't a character from Star Wars. Even if the fallacy were proven true, the conclusion is still wrong.

[NotMcCain]

Arianna was great for pointing out the fallacy of the article Keith was so impressed by.

No, it is NOT enough to equivocate about Obama's citizenship...."Even if..." etc.

He WAS born in Hawaii (after statehood). He IS an American citizen.

And he is not a MUSLIM, either (not that there's anything wrong with that--he just ISN'T).

[kylennblack]

On behalf of my Alaskan relatives I have to nitpick here...
Obama would still be an American citizen even if he were born in Hawaii BEFORE it became a state. It was a US territory for years before official statehood.
My mother was born in Alaska well before it became a state and she is a fully natural born American citizen:
From Wikipedia:
"All persons born in Alaska on or after June 2, 1924 are natural-born citizens of the United States. Alaska was declared U.S. State on January 3, 1959."
"All persons born in Hawaii on or after April 30, 1900, are natural-born citizens of the United States. Hawaii was declared U.S. State on August 21, 1959."
Original sources:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/1404.html
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/1405.html
There are similar provisions for Puerto Rico, Guam, the US Virgin Islands and the Panama Canal Zone (McCain's place of birth) and a few other smaller US possessions.

[learnsomething]

Thank you as well

[suntzu]

"He WAS born in Hawaii (after statehood). He IS an American citizen."
CORRECTION NECESSARY: Even before Hawaii became a state, it was a territory of the United States, beginning around 1898. Anyone born in Hawaii after that is a native born citizen. Citizenship for Hawiians did NOT begin only with statehood.

[learnsomething]

Thank you

[obasome]

how is this the same as the earth being flat or evolut ion which is still debatable

[Nyland8]

The earth being flat is not debatable. Evolution is not debatable.

Obama's citizenship is not debatable.

8

[eden4barack08]

Proven facts are not debatable.

[obasome]

how is this the same as the earth being flat or evolution which is still debatable

[Dissident Dexter]

HOW IS EVOLUTION DEBATEABLE????

[BryantG]

The funny thing is that not too long ago the right was talking about changing the law to so that the California govenor Arnold S could run for president.

[fiorastar]

I remember that, too! Funny.

[UltraClassic]

All the guy has got to do is produce his actual birth certificate and this entire issue will be put the bed.
What's so difficult about that?

[Badfickle]

He has. People like you just don't want to believe it because you want to believe this fantasy.

[KeepMeLearning]

The state of Hawaii has verified its authenticity. Isn't that enough???

[Lolly]

Do you have your "actual birth certificate?"

No, of course not. No one does. The "actual birth certificate" is held in the Hall of Records in the town where I was born.

I can get an "official copy"--or 10 copies--or 100--but I can't get my hands on my "actual birth certificate."

What the registrar will give you is their decision. They used to give a xerox copy with a raised seal stamped on it. Before they had xerox machines, they used to fill out a form verifying your information, then they would stamp it with their official seal. Now, many places are entering the data on computers, then producing a printout of the data for the "official copy."

Obama has produced enough "official copies" to wallpaper a small house. He cannot get "the actual birth certificate" unless he breaks into the Hall of Records in Hawaii at night and steals it out of their files. Even then, if it's all been transferred to computers, there may be no "actual birth certificate," at least not a hardcopy.

[MadMoll]

They have already granted the validity of the BC. what they are going after is his MOTHER'S status. Until the Cable Act (1922 - 1936) which guaranteed a women retentrion of her citizenship should she marry a foreigner, a woman retained her citizenship when she married a foreigner. Prior to the Act, she would be stripped of citizenship, and have to reapply. It has never been decided as to whether a woman retains her citizenship since the repeal of the Cable Act.

[MikeDu]

All of a sudden the degenrate hard right gains a renewed interest in 'the letter of the law'? That would be a laugh if it weren't for the sad fact of Bush having used the constitution as toilet paper over the past 8 years.

[Horus45]

It is available online for anyone to see.

You just don't want to see it, you would rather keep these lies going to somehow de-legitimize Obama's win!

[badfluffy]

I don't care if he was born on mars with a dad from imagination land and a mother from neptune.
I am just happy on Jan. 20th he will be our President!

[MizLiz]

Amen to that. Look what happened with the phony Texan.

[ThinkLiberal]

This is nothing more than Whitewater redux. From 1992-2000, the rethugs went bat-crazy over a failed real estate deal by the Clintons. If the Clintons coughed too loudly it was grounds to appoint a Special Investigator and launch a fool's errand, in search of ??? So, now it's Barack's turn at bat, but we've seen this game before, and we know now how to finish it. LOOOOSERS!!!!!