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Imogen Lloyd Webber

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Euro Collapse and the American Impact

Posted: 01/06/12 10:15 AM ET

The questions that I most often receive as a Brit commentating in America are: why is the Euro a mess, will it survive 2012 and if it doesn't, how does it impact America? This is normally accompanied by a complaint that most explanations are high on jargon, low on clarity.

So let's strip it down to the basics. The European Union is comprised of 27 countries, which when put together make the EU, with a population of around 500 million people, the largest economy in the world. Seventeen of those countries are members of the Eurozone, nations that use the Euro (thus the UK with its pound is a member of the EU but not of the Eurozone). The Euro has been in general circulation for ten years and the Eurozone is the world's second largest economy, with a population of around 330 million.

Comparisons of what is going on with the Eurozone have been made with the economic meltdown of 2008. Greece has been called the new "Lehman Brothers". We are told that there's "déjà vu" with the sub-prime crisis -- no one knows what Europe's bad debt is worth or what exactly is exposed to it. However, as George Soros, the billionaire investor, just said, the Eurozone situation is "more serious and more threatening than the crash of 2008."

There are two main fundamental differences with the situation in America in 2008, both political and economic.

Politically, despite everything that has gone on in America recently, in the US there is actually a cohesive political system. America is one country that when it comes down to it, speaks the same language. In 2008 America's politicians came together and made some decisions for the good, in their minds, of your nation. America is, in times of trouble, the United States Of America.

Europe is not the United States Of Europe. It is the Disunited States of Europe. It is not one nation -- the monuments on Euro notes are fictional so no country's national pride is offended. In Europe, seventeen leaders -- and sometimes 27 -- ALL have to come to an agreement on a decision. And then go home and sell that to seventeen -- and sometimes 27 -- democracies. Europe literally and figuratively does not speak the same language. Thus these leaders have always been behind instead of ahead of the crisis curve.

Economically, America has a key weapon at its disposal: not only is it the world's reserve currency but the Fed can print as much money as is needed to finance its borrowing. The countries in the Eurozone do not have this power -- those that have run into big trouble so far, the PIIGS (Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece and Spain) do not have their own individual central banks that they can rely on to print money and buy their debts.

Why doesn't the European Central Bank just print more money? Theoretically it could, but the Germans are very opposed to letting this happen. There are a multitude of reasons for this, from the historical -- Weimer hyper-inflation contributed to the rise of Hitler -- to the belief that countries should not be bailed out for living beyond their means.

The irony is, that if you take the Eurozone as one entity, it does not lack for resources. The problem is political -- member states are reluctant to finance each other. It could well prove that there's too much democracy in Europe for the Eurozone to survive in its present form. In all of this the human impact should not be forgotten. Three years ago Greece had the lowest suicide rate in Europe. Now it has the highest.

The Euro was the world's worst performing currency in 2011 -- can it survive 2012?

I recently posed the question to one of the people charged with running the UK's financial system. My source gave the Euro a twenty percent chance of failure, although did not rule out a country such as Greece departing the Eurozone. However, he was swift to point out that Germany was determined the Euro survived and that the German economy was incredibly strong. The figures bear this out. Germany has just reported unemployment is at a twenty year low.

What Germany wants, Germany will probably get. But the only certainty is that 2012 will be the trickiest year in the Euro's history. Hedge funds increased bets against the Euro to a record level in 2011's final week.

So if the one in five chance happens and the Euro collapses, how could this impact America?

We live in a globalized economy. There would be contagion -- what happens in Europe doesn't stay in Europe. Soros called the consequences of the Euro's failure to the global financial system, "catastrophic". America will inevitably hurt.

The EU is America's largest trading partner. If it is in deep recession, American companies will suffer and more American jobs will disappear. To compound the problem, the dollar, as the world's reserve currency, will become extremely strong (people and countries will be trying to find "safe" places for their cash), making it harder for American companies to sell their goods abroad.

Meanwhile, some estimates have put American banks and market funds as holding more than $2 trillion in European banks. Those European banks hold a lot of European sovereign debt that could go bad. We're talking the possibility of banks, bankrupting. Of runs on banks. That means that American banks could suffer big losses -- and stop lending to fellow Americans. Basically, what happened when Lehman Brothers fell but far worse. MF Global would be the tip of the iceberg. To add to all this misery, the financial markets -- so your pension fund, money in equities -- will likely nosedive.

You also cannot underestimate what the disintegration of the Euro would do to confidence. Companies will be even less likely to hire, consumers even more unlikely to spend.

So economically, the Eurozone collapses and America -- which currently looks like it's out of recession, will probably be in another one. Politically that could mean that Obama loses in 2012 because of a financial crisis he had nocontrol over.

Legend has it that 2012 will be the end of the world. It won't be that, but in 2012 there would seem to be a twenty percent chance that we are likely to see the end of the world as we know it.

 
 
 
 
 
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pshakkottai
retired engineer
02:55 AM on 01/09/2012
In
http://rodgermmitchell.wordpress.com/2011/12/20/the-european-union-the-solution-for-too-much-debt-is-to-borrow-even-more/
Mitchell says
There continue to be two, and only two, long-term solutions for euro nations:
1. Return to Monetary Sovereignty by re-adopting their sovereign currencies or
2. The EU to give (NOT lend) euros to member nations as needed.
States in USA can't create money and are dependent on the federal govt for funding. They can get money by state taxes and can't deficit spend. They can set up gambling casinos at borders to take away money from adjoining states (like Nevada and Ca).They can sell municipal bonds and borrow private money. State banks can (if they exist and operate like too big to fail banks.) These restrictions apply to you and me and states and businesses except to the federal govt which can create money and banks which are too big to fail which also crate money. They depend on the congress to approve of tax-payer bailouts. Ordinary banks can and do go bankrupt.
The problem with Europe is there is no political unity. The best option for Greece is to go back to sovereign Drachmas and get democracy back and get used to a lower standard of living. And get suggestions from Argentina.
Two key equations in economics:
Federal Deficits – Net Imports = Net Private Savings
Gross Domestic Product = Federal Spending + Private Investment and Consumption + Net exports
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Kai-HK
Don't Share My Wealth! Share My Work Ethic!
08:08 PM on 01/08/2012
The best thing about the Euro was that it forced into high relief the fact that welfare-state economies are unfeasible under a regime that requires fiscal discipline. When limited in the fiscal gimmickry that they have been using for the last several decades, it becomes obvious that welfare-state socialism is ruinous. This has been the greatest testament that free market capitalism and open markets is the way forward and that socialism is the creed of failure. Unfortunately America is following in the fiscally imprudent footsteps of Europe in a way that will only end the same way…with collapse.

Time to cut government spending, reduce taxes, reduce wealth transfers and re-embrace free markets devoid of the individual and corporate welfare to which people have become addicted.

Kai
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becky bradshaw
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth
08:47 PM on 01/08/2012
Detail, details, . . .
1. Greece, excepting debt payments, would have a budget surplus this year (http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/ambitious-greece-promises-to-turn-budget-surplus-for-2012-230412-Sep2011/).
2. Southern Europe's "emergency" was precipitated by manipulation of an American Wall Street company (http://www.presseurop.eu/en/content/article/1177241-our-friends-goldman-sachs).

Free market capitalism tends to abuse.
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Kai-HK
Don't Share My Wealth! Share My Work Ethic!
10:22 PM on 01/08/2012
Becky:

On Point 1) Of course, just like many debtors with big credit card debt debt would have savings if they had not run up so much credit in the first place by being fiscally imprudent. What is new? All you did was illustrate my point, which is that Greece is now forced by markets to act prudently since the Euro no longer lets them resort to gimmicks to get out of recognizing the real cost of socialism.

On Point 2). Hahahahaahaha. Goldman Sachs did not create their debt, their ruinous fiscal budgets did. All GS did was enable them to keep the charade going longer than it should have. The real cause of the debt problem is irresponsible spending, not those who enabled them to borrow. It is kinda like blaming the credit card company for giving you the credit card that allowed you to live above your means. It is a non-starter.

BTW, Greece was on an irresponsible budget trajectory BEFORE they ever met Goldman. Please lean to not conflate a symptom of their debt (GS helping them monetize future tax earnings) with the cause of their debt (Socialism and welfare-state nonsense).

Churchill said it best, ‘Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.’ -Winston Churchill

Kai
12:10 PM on 01/09/2012
If you exclude everyone's debt payments, all of us, countries and individuals would run a surplus. What a silly statement!!

It you take away most people's house payment, car payment, credit card payments, tuition payments, and loan payments there would be a surplus. It is precisely the borrowing to spend today that is causing the problem. They and us need to stop spending.
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pshakkottai
retired engineer
03:08 AM on 01/09/2012
Neo liberalism started with Reagon, was copied by Thatcher and spread to Europe. Neo liberals explain that budgets should be balanced etc, which is contrary to the equations (which are strict identities) shown above. The debt (over many years) divided by GDP per year is somehow mysteriosly too high at 100%(years). No deficits means no growth! Every govt surplus is followed by depressions. If you want actual data see figure 4 of
http://pragcap.com/resources/understanding-modern-monetary-system
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Kai-HK
Don't Share My Wealth! Share My Work Ethic!
06:49 AM on 01/09/2012
Pshakkottai:

Stripping out your narrative and going right to your points:

You state, ‘No deficits means no growth!’

True deficits can increase growth artificially in the short-term, as you pull forward growth via borrowing. But in the long-run, expectations would balance it out. Besides, you are also ignoring the monetary side of this equation.

You state, ‘Every govt surplus is followed by depressions.’

Really? Possibly because much of the surplus was due to artificial economic growth caused by keeping central bank credit too cheap and too easy for too long, that causes misallocation in the economy and creates bubbles which have a tendency to pop…as was the case in 1999 and most recently in 2007/8/

I live in Hong Kong, we run surpluses all the time…the government simply rebates back my tax. Our last surplus was in 2008…we have had no recession…unemployment is 3%, 1.7% if you include part time work. Median salaries on a PPP basis are higher than in the US. And we run consistent trade deficits. How do you explain it? BTW, we are tied to the US dollar not the RMB so we inherit US monetary policy, not China’s.

Kai
12:13 PM on 01/09/2012
It is not true that no deficits means no growth. If a government was small and took less in the way of taxes, there would be more money in the private sector where value is created. Deficits simply artificially create short term growth, until the debt needs to be repaid.

It is much better to have real growth and live within our means.
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Charles Queen
I am a disabled nam vet
07:01 PM on 01/08/2012
Of course what go's in in the Eu has an impact on us and as the guy said,the longer their in a recession mode the more jobs that are going to dissapear here no matter what we do.What happens here also has an impact on them as well and other country's.I'm not an economics expert,never claimeo be but all of this is pretty simple to understand and figure as to how it impacts us and others.I have always also thought that when they decided to go to the euro that it was a bad idea,I may be wrong or right ,I really don't know.I do know from my many travels to germany and other countrys that as soon as they created the euro everything shot up in price.I don't know if that had anything to do with them all going to the same currency or not but I think it may have to some extent
04:24 PM on 01/08/2012
So long as there is profit in debts there will be those that finance unsuspecting borrowers with the intent of profiting from their demise. Until that can be changed there will always be the temptation to invite financial disaster for profit.
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pshakkottai
retired engineer
03:13 AM on 01/09/2012
State banks can be governed better and the money they create would help balance their budgets. States of course have to live within their means unlike the federal govt which can and MUST deficit fund to grow the economy.
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ZeraLee
A Citizen's View from Main Street
02:38 PM on 01/08/2012
And yet the republicans want the US to decentralize. They want cutthroat competition between the states. They want the same austerity that is pushing the EU into another recession. They want the US to become more like the EU.
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Dh Barr
Bringing Clues to the Clueless
04:49 PM on 01/08/2012
The US was designed from the start via the Constitution to be decentralized. Each state might have it's own unique cultural oddities, but we all think of ourselves as Americans, and we (mostly) speak the same language. The eurozone does not have that - people in Greece don't want to hear a bunch of bureaucrats in Belgium telling them that their retirement benefits have to be trimmed by the Greek government before they will agree to more loans.
Also imagine what it would be like if the US Senate had to have 100% agreement before anything could be passed.
12:18 PM on 01/09/2012
What do you mean by "cutthroat competition" between states? And which Republicans are calling for this? Proof please.

Republicans do NOT want the US to be like Europe -- they generally want smaller government and less spending, not socialized federal programs such as Obamacare. You must not have good analytical skills.
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pshakkottai
retired engineer
12:55 PM on 01/09/2012
They are arguing as though Europe is similar to USA. USA is monetarily sovereign and Europe is not politically a single entity. Greece and California are on a similar footing and can prosper only if money is given to support the economy. USA can easily do that to grow the economy and actually must do it. There is no other way. Austerity and neoliberalism will be failures. Balancing budgets makes sense to states with no monetary sovereignty but not to the federal govt which creates money.
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TAIsabel
Suffer no fools.
09:01 AM on 01/08/2012
Eleven years ago, I had a heated argument with a German friend in Spain as I pointed out that te Eurozone was doomed to failure for the obvious reasons. He tried to compare the EU to the US and tried to convince me that it would work.

He and his wife paid me a visit in NY last month and he finally admitted that I was right and that he had been wrong. Even Gemans recognize that the Eurozone, as presently designed, is ineffectual and unsustainable. 2012 will be the beginning of the end of the Eurozone as we know it and we will all be better off for it. I predict that many EU countries will leave the Eurozone or it will be tiered into different zones of differing values.
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time1910
owner-operator germany
08:25 AM on 01/08/2012
"Legend has it that 2012 will be the end of the world. It won't be that, but in 2012 there would seem to be a twenty percent chance that we are likely to see the end of the world as we know it."

It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine...lalalala
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mountainweb
Conservative Commonsense
06:44 AM on 01/08/2012
The real weak link in the EU is deficit spending by Greece and company. As long as you have an economy, like California, that is dumb enough to continue to spend, year after year, far more money than they are taking in, default is going to happen, just a matter of when. Will Greece default this year, I am betting that Greece will refuse to reign in their spending and Germany will pull the plug on them, better now than later...
11:18 AM on 01/08/2012
Actually the problem is Germany that insists that it have a massive trade surplus and the other EU countries also. How can everyone have a trade surplus unless of course there is trade with the Moon?
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Sagrimore
They can never take my panache
12:38 PM on 01/08/2012
Typical right-wing nonsense and half-truths.

Greece has been guilty of spending more than it takes in all along. But that's due in large part to Greek citizens not paying their taxes. There is an untaxed "shadow economy" in Greece that is estimated to be as large as 30 percent of the reported GDP. If taxes were collected from the Greece's "shadow economy", Greece's deficit would fall from 13% of their GDP to 4%.

http://www.forbes.com/2010/05/14/greece-taxes-debt-opinions-contributors-richard-murphy.html

And contrary to what conservatives would like people to believe, the other European countries with debt problems weren't profligate spenders. Spain and Ireland actually had budget surpluses before the global economic collapse in 2008, and much of their current deficits are due to bailing out their banks.

Italy has a high debt, but a relatively low deficit of 4.6 percent of GDP. And unlike other countries, Italy's debt is held mostly by Italians rather than foreign investors.

Like here in the U.S., European countries continues to suffer from the Republican Recession. Unemployment is up, so tax receipts are down. What the European Central Bank is insisting on is that countries with high debt take "austerity measures". In other words, ECB officials believe that adopting contractionary economic policies will do something other than cause economies to contract.
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pshakkottai
retired engineer
03:19 AM on 01/09/2012
"No nation can tax itself into prosperity, nor grow without money growth. Monetary Sovereignty: Cutting federal deficits to grow the economy is like applying leeches to cure anemia." says Mitchell in his blogs such as
http://rodgermmitchell.wordpress.com/2011/12/25/italy-tries-to-grow-their-economy-by-taking-money-from-their-economy-huh/
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frank1946
Tell the Truth
11:49 PM on 01/07/2012
Hey Ma, the price of a new BMW just went down, can you believe it ?

ECB is lending Money to all the Losers in Europe, ECB will own much of the PIGS.

Write downs of PIGS Assets will be subsantial, 50 % for most of them.

It will take ten years to recover.
12:28 PM on 01/09/2012
Now that many BMWs are made in the US, the price will not go down much :)
08:53 PM on 01/07/2012
Human nature, absent a catastrophic war, will find a way to adapt, persevere and overcome, including in the Eurozone. It will sort out its mess, and may change in shape as the rich Northern Countries deal with their poorer southern cousins. But no one there is out to collapse the Euro and they all will admit their governing apparatus failed, the first indications was when countrys living beyond their means were allowed to slide. The multilayered culture in Europe isn't going to just unravel over this problem. With the winding down of all the middle eastern wars, at the very least, more money and focus can now be spent on problems at home. We are talking at least 3-4 trillion dollars here between the US, Europe, and other countrys involved that could have gone into domestic consumption and a lost opportunity time of a financial meltdown gnp contraction.. Thankyou, finally a change in venue. World war 11, the vietnam war, and now this one will all take a costly toll, took years to pay off, and what is happening in Europe is linked.
07:41 PM on 01/07/2012
the game is over , last year the arab spring. this year the fall because of supporting funds will try up because of iran and civil disobedince in europe . the usa and nato war mechine will be extended do to asian unrest in nort korea and the failure of pakistan to hold its military units in check. semi alliaces will be with taliban and terrorist will flurish because of support from iran, syria , egypt , and africa, pakistan.
putin laughs all the way to the bank. the surprise will be when germany and france and italy will hold back from supporting obama until after election in taking out iran nuke sites. the election will be won and support for the euro will not be found.
Sean Porter
I support the right to arm bears.
07:16 PM on 01/07/2012
I don't believe the Euro will collapse. I do believe that Greece and maybe one or two more countries will opt out of the Euro. In the long run that may be good for the value of the Euro, since it won't be dragged down by some of the Mediterranean economies. Just my two farthings.
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Carl Caroli
I just don't understand people
05:32 PM on 01/07/2012
Actually the eurozones instability might cause more global investing in the dollar, propping it up longer.
08:08 PM on 01/07/2012
A stronger dollar would give the Fed carte blanche to run the printing presses to relieve the pressure on the dollar when its used for 'safety'. Inflation risks would be minimal as it would still be safer than the alternatives. This would counteract the effect of European bank losses on American banks as they would just use the new dollars at virtually no interests, to cover themselves. However, when Europe gets back on its feet along with the rest of the world, the average joe will see inflation as there will be too many dollars left over from the printing. US banks win again at the expense of the American tax payer than use that influence to shift more tax burden away from themselves and on to us.
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niumarmion
a temporary being
10:30 PM on 01/07/2012
The Fed could use those dollars to prop up the Euro to avert that crisis. There aren't a lot of good places for the dollar to go in the U.S. There are not enough credit worthy borrowers to use those available dollars.
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Carl Caroli
I just don't understand people
01:41 AM on 01/08/2012
And a number of so called economists have been proposing encouraging inflation here to get the country out of the mortgage crisis. I can see it going that way.
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Michael D Ballantine
Texas Justice Party - Chairperson
08:04 AM on 01/07/2012
What we don't know is how linked the American economy is with the Eurozone through Credit Default Swaps. The FED should inform us about what firewalls, they have installed to limit the fallout when the Greece defaults and leaves the Eurozone. Pretending that it is not going to happen does not provide investors with enough confidence to begin investing. Also, we need to anticipate how much the Euro will fall relative to the dollar to recognize which export markets are at risk. With the impending municipal bond crisis in China as well as their recent housing bubble implosion, China provides as much risk to the world economy as the Eurozone. If we dodge one, it is unlikely that we will dodge both. What contingencies has President Obama made with the FED in anticipation of this new crisis? It's bad enough the supposed experts got caught by surprise despite the many warning signs in 2007, it's quite another to get caught when it is staring you in the face.
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Caniculus
Anything about that seem unusual to you?
12:31 PM on 01/07/2012
Do we know how much the FED has secretly loaned banks or sovereign nations in the Eurozone? Isn't it likely that the FED is essentially acting as the central bank of the Eurozone? While that will prop up both the Eurozone and US economies in the short term, don't we all sense that these emergency repairs with chewing gum and duct tape will eventually explode?

Tick, tick, tick. . . .
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Michael D Ballantine
Texas Justice Party - Chairperson
07:43 PM on 01/07/2012
The issue is not so much the banks and the sovereign debt. That has a limit of about $3 trillion which even in worst case, we could manage. It is the credit default swaps which some of our banks have insured that could reach $150 trillion or more that is the problem. We have no "published" idea what these are and they would bring down our banks requiring a taxpayer bailout.
06:02 AM on 01/07/2012
The Eurozone as a whole has a balanced current account (5-7% deficit in the US), an overall budget deficit of 4% (close to 10% in the US), total sovereign debt of 80% of GDP (more than 100% in the US) and the Euro today buys about 10% more USD than it did at inception. So that's not a bad track record at all!

Government overspending (particularly in the South) is cited at the villain. First, such overspending has not only occurred in the South and, secondly, that overspending was relatively manageable compared with the overspending of entire economies. The huge current account deficits only underline that value creation had moved to the North and value consumption to the South. And this was only possible because the re-allocators of capital (banks, etc.) did a lousy job at re-allocating capital: they wasted capital by lending it to people/economies that spent the funds on consumption.

If we know the causes of trouble, all we need to do is to reverse them if we want improvement. That means: value creation has to be moved to the South again and the North needs to consume more of that Southern value creation (and live with a little less value creation on its own). To move into that direction should be the policy goal of all policy makers!

http://klauskastner.blogspot.com/2011/12/closing-2011-with-minority-view.html