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James A. Shapiro

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Does Natural Selection Really Explain What Makes Evolution Succeed?

Posted: 08/12/2012 4:54 pm

How has evolution successfully produced the diversity of organisms occupying virtually every ecological niche on the planet? This has been the central question in scientific evolution since thinkers in the late 18th century (including Erasmus Darwin, Charles' grandfather) introduced the idea that living organisms change over time. The big unknowns were how heredity worked, how change occurred, and how hereditary variation (called "descent with modification") transformed itself into useful biological diversity.

The Wallace-Darwin theory of "survival of the fittest" published in 1858 was the first plausible scheme for converting variation into adaptive differences. Although unable to say anything significant about the nature of hereditary transmission or variation, they proposed the following idea. Variants fittest (best able) to survive the Malthusian struggle for existence and reproduction in a world of limited resources would progressively become different and dominant. Eventually, differences would accumulate to the point that new species would form.

Darwin's 1859 Origin of Species had tremendous impact for two reasons. First, it made plausible the notion of change through differential reproduction available to the general reader. Finally, the public saw there was a scientific alternative to supernatural creation.

Second, Darwin providentially gave the name "Natural Selection" to the process ensuring "Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life," as he subtitled his book. Proponents of evolution had a concise phrase to use when asked to explain how this new natural source of biological transformation actually worked. The satisfaction of having a short answer to a difficult question proved irresistible then, as it does today.

Did Wallace and Darwin hit the nail on the head and identify the crucial process of biological diversification? To most people, and especially to the evolutionist profession, the answer is so obviously "Yes" that even to pose the question subjects the person asking to abuse. My readers can see that from some of the comments on this blog.

Nonetheless, all questions are permissible in science. This one about evolution is particularly important. Either evolution is an exciting subject able to incorporate diverse approaches, or it is a closed subject basically solved 150 years ago, when we knew virtually nothing about heredity or hereditary variation.

Because of the public conflict between religious fundamentalism and scientific positivism (the notion that science has all the answers), public policy in science education has become linked to my question. If evolutionists are right that all basic questions have been resolved, then the atheist crusade of Dawkins and allies may have a rational basis. However, if the answer to my question is "No," then perhaps we can find a way out of this destructive dialogue of the deaf.

So, let us look more closely at the Darwinist position on evolution. Does selection for reproductive fitness lead to creative changes? Wallace once argued the reverse. He viewed selection as a stabilizing feedback mechanism, like a steam engine "governor," keeping organism features constant as long as the environment remained the same.

Darwin modeled natural selection on artificial selection by humans. He ignored the inconvenient fact that human selection for altered traits has never generated a truly new organismal feature (e.g., a limb or an organ) or formed a new species. Selection only modifies existing characters. When humans wish to create new species, they use other means.

In hailing natural selection as a blind creative force, Darwinists ignore the irony that Darwin's model of human selection is an intentional, goal-directed process with a desired outcome. It is precisely the opposite of a blind force.

Darwin was correct in believing that natural selection could only play a creative role if variation was continual and small. Based on the "Uniformitarian" idea that change had to occur in the small steps we observe under normal conditions, he originally insisted that evolutionary innovation had to be gradual. "If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed, which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down. But I can find out no such case" (Origin of Species, Chapter 6).

Unlike most followers, Darwin acknowledged later that significant, sudden changes could occur in a fundamentally different way. He wrote about "... variations which seem to us in our ignorance to arise spontaneously. It appears that I formerly underrated the frequency and value of these latter forms of variation, as leading to permanent modifications of structure independently of natural selection" (Origin of Species, 6th edition, Chapter XV, p. 395, emphasis added).

So a way to rephrase my question is to ask: Have we learned since 1859 about processes that can lead to organism change "independently of natural selection?" The answer is overwhelmingly positive.

Two fields principally illuminated the basic mechanisms of heredity and variation:

  • cytogenetics (the study of chromosome behavior in heredity using both genetic and microscopic methods) and
  • molecular genetics (using DNA analysis to identify the nature of genome change).

In combination, cytogenetics and molecular genetics have taught us about many processes that lead to biological novelties "independently of natural selection" -- hybridization, genome duplication, symbiogenesis, chromosome restructuring, horizontal DNA transfer, mobile genetic elements, epigenetic switches, and natural genetic engineering (the ability of all cells to cut, splice, copy, and modify their DNA in non-random ways). As previous blogs document and as future blogs will discuss, the genome sequence record tells us that these processes have accompanied rapid changes in all kinds of organisms. We know that many of them are activated by stress under extraordinary circumstances.

Fortunately for evolution science and science education, 20th century studies of inheritance at the cellular and molecular level have freed us from the intellectual straightjacket of gradual random change and natural selection. In the 21st century, we can think open-mindedly about the cellular and molecular processes that lead to biological diversity. Today, we can investigate how they work to achieve evolutionary success, particularly in crisis situations, when novelty is most necessary.

 
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How has evolution successfully produced the diversity of organisms occupying virtually every ecological niche on the planet? This has been the central question in scientific evolution since thinkers i...
How has evolution successfully produced the diversity of organisms occupying virtually every ecological niche on the planet? This has been the central question in scientific evolution since thinkers i...
 
 
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06:00 PM on 10/04/2012
Shapiro said:

"How has evolution successfully produced the diversity of organisms occupying virtually every ecological niche on the planet? This has been the central question in scientific evolution since thinkers in the late 18th century (including Erasmus Darwin, Charles' grandfather) introduced the idea that living organisms change over time."

No, the question doesn't need and shouldn't include the word "successfully". By inserting that word you're asserting or at least implying that there's a lofty goal for evolution beyond survival and reproduction. Apparently you've forgotten about extinction and that most of the species that have ever lived are extinct.
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01:56 PM on 08/26/2012
Evolurtion? Rochard?? How thorough and rigorous are you, Shapiro?
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James A. Shapiro
Author "Evolution: A View from the 21st Century
10:42 PM on 08/26/2012
Domianic,

Give me the full quotes, and I'll reply. Typos happen. Do you never make them?
10:40 AM on 08/26/2012
- One rarely hears that Darwin allowed that Larmarckism was also an agent in causing diversity.
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
James A. Shapiro
Author "Evolution: A View from the 21st Century
06:05 PM on 08/26/2012
Joey,

You're right that Darwin accepted the inheritance of acquired characteristics.

Eva Jablonka is the big Lamarck proponent. If you're interested, her 2007 book with Marion Lamb, Evolution in Four Dimensions, would be of interest. You can also look up her papers.

Now that we know environmental stimuli can induce transgenerational epigenetic effects, there is a potential molecular connection between experience, the genome and selection. I expect a great deal will be made of that.
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John Kwok
08:42 PM on 08/26/2012
That's only in later editions of the Origin when Darwin couldn't demonstrate the underlying genetic basis for Natural Selection. Had he read Gregor Mendel's paper and recognized it for the important breakthrough that it was, he might have stumbled upon the significance of genes and help usher the birth of population genetics almost fifty years before it was developed by the likes of R. A. Fisher and others.
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Antikytera
06:15 AM on 08/25/2012
Why discuss evolution? This is not about evolution, it is about defending own view of what a human is in a spesific relation to a god.
It becomes lying for g_d in defence of own faulty thinking. Critical thinking starts with own cultural "truths". The farther from reality a god belief are, the harder they have to defend it. Truth becomes relative and "lies" becomes truths. Poor souls.
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wisdom4you
wisdom is/ = alter ego perspectives :-)
09:17 AM on 08/25/2012
antikytera ... yeah, but, there is no 'god'.
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wisdom4you
wisdom is/ = alter ego perspectives :-)
09:59 AM on 08/25/2012
Antikytera ... there is no 'god'. All religion is only political in nature.
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Antikytera
10:41 AM on 08/25/2012
^^ I know, but we live in a society that have consepts we need to use to make a point.
04:54 PM on 08/24/2012
The disagreement between Shapiro and Dawkins and Coyne is not about natural selection but about mutation.
Dawkins and Coyne believe that mutation is random.
Shapiro believes that mutation can be directed.
I would love to see a debate between them that concentrates specifically on this question.
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James A. Shapiro
Author "Evolution: A View from the 21st Century
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John Kwok
04:58 PM on 08/25/2012
The disagreement is far more than that. Shapiro is advocated his own peculiar version of Neo-Lamarckian evolutionary theory, claiming that it is somehow better than current evolutionary theory. That stands in stark contrast with Coyne and Dawkins' view that Natural Selection is the primary mechanism for evolution; Shapiro is advocating instead for his Neo-Lamarckian "natural genetic engineering" claiming that cells are capable of Neo-Lamarckian evolution via some form of "cognitive intelligence" that he claims they possess. While I don't share Coyne and Dawkins' reductionist view of current evolutionary theory, I think their criticisms are fair and quite accurate, which is why I endorse them. (In the interest of full disclosure, I am a huge fan of Dawkins' writing, even when I disagree with him; he remains one of our finest science popularizers. Anyone who was once a good friend of Douglas Adams and whose third wife, actress and illustrator Lalla Ward, portrayed a Time Lord on "Doctor Who" deserves ample credit IMHO. In fact, one of my favorite autgraphed books in my collection is one of his which both of them signed at a New York City Barnes and Noble bookstore many years ago.)
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John Kwok
08:37 PM on 08/23/2012
I endorse Jerry Coyne and Richard Dawkins' harsh, but accurate, assessment of James Shapiro as noted here:

http://richarddawkins.net/news_articles/2012/8/22/james-shapiro-goes-after-natural-selection-again-twice-on-huffpo#.UDZywtBYv5g

As soon as I started commenting at Shapiro's blog postings, I realized he was doing a grave disservice to his scientific colleagues and causing great harm towards public understanding of science. It's great to get additional confirmation of this from the likes of Coyne and Dawkins IMHO.
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James A. Shapiro
Author "Evolution: A View from the 21st Century
09:47 PM on 08/23/2012
John,

You're in hallowed company.
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John Kwok
12:00 AM on 08/24/2012
No, I recognize that you are doing a grave disservice to your scientific colleagues and causing great harm towards public understanding of science. That Coyne and Dawkins also agree with me is irrelevant. I knew immediately on the first day I started posting exactly who you are, an isolated figure in the scientific community who espouses a weird version of Neo-Lamarkian evolutionary theory and someone who doesn't understand the major principles of contemporary evolutionary biology like population thinking or the Red Queen or even the concept of exaptation, and has a dismal, distorted understanding of the history of science with regards to Darwin and Wallace's independent discovery of Natural Selection as a major mechanism of evolution. While there are those like philosopher Massimo Pigliucci and paleontologist Niles Eldredge who have legitimate concerns regarding the current state of modern evolutionary theory, neither one - nor others like them - have painted as distorted a strawman version as the one you've been presenting here at the Huffington Post; a strawman version that has far more in common with those presented by your Discovery Institute Intelligent Design creationist fans than you are willing to admit.
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wisdom4you
wisdom is/ = alter ego perspectives :-)
10:14 AM on 08/25/2012
John Kwok ... I agree ... however, with you. My perspective? Simple: How has evolution successfully produced the diversity of organisms is not a valid question, nor, implied statement, to start with, it is obviously a totally invalid by simple reason that it is most certainly not a record of what was produced, by reason there is no apparent record for that of which nature had NOT produced, and nature most certainly had no reason to provide a record for that of which probably produced but had not worked.
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
James A. Shapiro
Author "Evolution: A View from the 21st Century
11:55 AM on 08/26/2012
Wisdom,

I have difficulty understanding where you are coming from. As parody of some of the more extreme comments, this is brilliant. But I wonder whether you are serious or not. Please clarify.
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Wendell Read
10:46 AM on 08/27/2012
Wisdom,

Sometimes I have difficulty understanding the subtle points some commentators are making. Such is the case here. The following is my understanding of what you are saying:

It is not legitimate to ask how evolution produced life as it now exists. The reason for this is that we have no record of the failed evolutionary novelties.

This has some interesting implications. Any scientist who tries to explain how a particular evolutionary novelty came to be cannot in principle come up with a valid answer, because the very question he is pursuing is invalid. In fact the entirety of VALID evolutionary science is contained in the statement "evolution produced life as we see it, but we have no idea how this happened".
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RedDogBear
02:26 PM on 08/23/2012
Here is part 1 of a comment from evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins about this article. This comment was posted on the response by Jerry Coyne:

http://richarddawkins.net/news_articles/2012/8/22/james-shapiro-goes-after-natural-selection-again-twice-on-huffpo#.UDZywtBYv5g

Dawkins Comment:

"Jerry has done a good job of demolishing this silly article. I would emphasise even more strongly the point about explaining the illusion of design. All the processes that Shapiro lists may or may not have an effect on evolution:-

"independently of natural selection" -- hybridization, genome duplication, symbiogenesis, chromosome restructuring, horizontal DNA transfer, mobile genetic elements, epigenetic switches, and natural genetic engineering (the ability of all cells to cut, splice, copy, and modify their DNA in non-random ways"
11:50 PM on 08/22/2012
This doesn't make any sense to me. It's like he's using words he doesn't understand. Natural selection is an, er, selection system isn't it? Why wouldn't it act on everything in his list. After all they still either confer survival advantages or disadvantages (or neutralities) dependant on environment. The various selection pressures out in the wild will still all function on everything he is talking about. And whats gradual or rapid got to do with anything? Even if there was an unlikely fluke that jumped a few more likely steps in a chain of molecular evolution and you got what statistically was more likely to happen in 100 years happening in 10 the creature still has to survive doesn't it? The environment still ultimately makes the call as to whether the animal survives.
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James A. Shapiro
Author "Evolution: A View from the 21st Century
10:21 AM on 08/23/2012
Gryphae,

I don't think you've paid attention to my argument. It's not the testing role of selection that is at issue. It's the creative aspect of the evolutionary process that is in question.

You wrote: "And whats gradual or rapid got to do with anything?" The point is that natural selection can only play a guiding role for gradual changes. Even Richard Dawkins recognized that.

I suggest you read through the comments and responses to get a clearer idea of where the critical questions are. It's just not possible to have a two word answer to all the issues in evolution.

BTW evolution involves lots of organisms that are not animals. In fact, the not-animals are the vast majority.
07:09 PM on 09/22/2012
James, it's interesting that you used the words "play a guiding role" in regard to natural selection. "[P]lay a guiding role" sounds like a "creative" or even deliberately "creative" action or process, yet you argue that NS doesn't 'create' anything. That's the trouble with words, as they can have different meanings, especially to different people. Your interpretation of the word "creative", for example, is different than the interpretation of some other people, at least when it comes to the "creative aspect" of evolutionary processes/events such as NS.

I'm not familiar with everything that Dawkins has ever said or what he may recognize but the word "gradual" does not have to be construed as meaning slow. Changes, such as mutations, can be slow or fast (two more words with variable meanings) but they will be filtered by NS regardless of the speed in which they come about. Some changes will get through the NS filter and some will not.

I'm curious, what do you think of this statement?:

Evolutionary processes/events, including natural selection, have created the diversity of life.

Or this one:

Natural evolutionary processes/events, including natural selection, have created the diversity of life.

Or this one:

Evolutionary processes/events, including natural selection, have resulted in the diversity of life.
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RedDogBear
06:48 PM on 08/22/2012
Biologist Jerry Coyne pretty much demolishes this article. See my previous comment for the link. Here is a sample from his response:

"I wouldn’t go after Shapiro except that... naive readers might get the impression that biologists are beginning to doubt that natural selection isn’t important. Well, as far as evolutionary biologists regard adaptations, it is: natural selection is the only game in town."
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
James A. Shapiro
Author "Evolution: A View from the 21st Century
12:00 AM on 08/23/2012
RedDog,

So Jerry agrees with what I said about professional evolutionists and their belief in the all-purpose explanatory powers of natural selection. I'll have more detail tomorrow.
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
James A. Shapiro
Author "Evolution: A View from the 21st Century
10:15 AM on 08/23/2012
Red Dog,

Here are excerpts from the response I asked Jerry to post on his web site.

Jerry,

“Well, as far as evolutionary biologists regard adaptations, it is: natural selection is the only game in town.”

Thanks for making this so clear and easy for me. That is just what I claimed professional students of evolution believe, and you have confirmed it. With that kind of an attitude, it is hard to avoid turning natural selection into a Deus ex Machina that can explain everything (and, consequently, nothing). I personally would prefer to limit natural selection to testing the adaptive value of new characters. That is an important but not all-powerful role.

Unlike you, I do not claim to have an all-encompassing explanation or, as you put it in an earlier posting, “all the facts are on my side.” It’s not clear to me how you know what “all the facts” are since so much research remains to be done. Molecular genetics and genome sequencing have opened up a whole new world in evolution science that takes us way beyond the conventional wisdom you repeat. It shows us what a fascinating, complex and multidimensional process evolution is. Natural selection plays an important role, but we have to learn to put each component of biological change over evolutionary time into proper perspective. Making natural selection the be-all and end-all is not the way to do that.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
RedDogBear
03:38 PM on 08/23/2012
"ust what I claimed professional students of evolution believe, and you have confirmed it. With that kind of an attitude, it is hard to avoid turning natural selection into a Deus ex Machina that can explain everything (and, consequently, nothing)"
I think you are fundamentally missing his point. He's not saying that he won't consider any evidence that contradicts saying "natural selection is the only game in town" he is saying that there is over whelming evidence FOR natural selection and none for the alternatives you mention. 
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John Kwok
08:58 PM on 08/23/2012
I'd love to see you publish your ideas in peer-reviewed scientific journals, not in your book or your Huffington Post blog. In this regard you are no better than the Discovery Institute Intelligent Design creationists like William Dembski, David Klinghoffer and Casey Luskin, who have become devout fans of yours.
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RedDogBear
06:38 PM on 08/22/2012
Here is an excellent reply to this article from biologist Jerry Coyne:

http://richarddawkins.net/articles/646837-james-shapiro-goes-after-natural-selection-again-twice-on-huffpo
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James A. Shapiro
Author "Evolution: A View from the 21st Century
10:44 PM on 08/22/2012
RedDog,

The link has gone dead for some reason. But not to worry, Jerry's fulminations can be found at http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/ below his comments on Fred Astaire. I'll have more to say tomorrow.
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RedDogBear
11:03 PM on 08/22/2012
The Richard Dawkins site started doing a major upgrade just after I posted the link. Its been up and down all night, thanks for posting the link to the original site, I would be interested to hear your replies to his arguments.
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Tony Rochon
Trying to fly under the radar
08:40 AM on 08/19/2012
Using the term "evolutionist" as a disparagement is a bit childish, don't you think?
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James A. Shapiro
Author "Evolution: A View from the 21st Century
01:12 PM on 08/19/2012
Tony,

As a geneticist, I did not think of it as a disparagement. There is a considerable discussion of just this point farther down in the comments. Now that I am aware that professional students of evolution do not like to be called by the name of their subject, I will try to find other options that do not strike the same sensitive chord. Curious psychology, if you ask me.
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Tony Rochon
Trying to fly under the radar
04:41 PM on 08/19/2012
Yet you seem to be making an equivalency between "atheist scientific positivists" and "evolutionists".  Or did I miss something? 
06:34 PM on 08/21/2012
Dr Shapiro,
when I first responded to your article, I challenged your use of loaded terms in part because your article was peppered with them: so many loaded words! It was only after reading your papers on your university website that I realized you appear to be an orthodox researcher who could take me to school on graduate-level biochemistry (makes me wish I lived in Chicago) and not an undercover ideologue (there are many here).

While you may agree with me (as a biochemist) that keeping terms precise is important, you may not have noticed that precision is not just based on dictionary definitions, but also on cultural understandings of words: your exposure to criticism on this post is probably heavily based on this. This is where these comments can be helpful: to expose you to definitions not found in a dictionary.

I ran into a similar problem as a child when I tried to use an innocuous word in English with native Spanish speakers--cynical. While the word has the same definition in both languages, Spanish speakers generally use "cynical" to describe folks who behave in disreputable ways as a result of adherence to this ideology while English speakers usually imply "distrust of selflessness" and not necessarily acting in disreputable ways. So calling someone cynical in English can be a compliment (you're a critical thinker) while in Spanish it can be an offense (you're a corrupt person), even if both dictionaries define it exactly the same.
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
James A. Shapiro
Author "Evolution: A View from the 21st Century
03:23 PM on 08/19/2012
Tony,

I replied hours ago, but HuffPost seems to be jammed.

Since I have no problem being called a "geneticist" or a "microbiologist," I did not think "evolutionist" would be considered pejorative for students of evolution. As you can see from the comment trails below, I have learned to appreciate the special sensitivities these colleagues have. So I will try to use only other, more neutral terms.
09:01 PM on 08/22/2012
Dr. Shapiro

Come now. You are disingenuous when you claim not use the word "evolutionist" pejoratively. Prefacing with a reference to the "public conflict between religious fundamentalism and scientific positivism", you state:

"If evolutionists are right that all basic questions have been resolved, then the atheist crusade of Dawkins and allies may have a rational basis."

Does being called a "geneticist" or a "microbiologist" mean that you believe that "all basic questions have been resolved"?
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wisdom4you
wisdom is/ = alter ego perspectives :-)
11:03 AM on 08/25/2012
Shapiro ... I see you have assasined language, again, and, as usual ... 'since' refers to time, and 'sense, to thought ... in any event, the very word 'evolutionist' is pejorative in it self by reason it invokes a serious insult to both the 'evolutionists' and the so called 'creationists', and has produced the never ending war of words. A 'war' of which the so called creationist can never win, by obvious reason that even you can wipe up a batch of rye bread mold in your lab, anytime that you want to, and produce their 'god.
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DAE
01:24 AM on 08/19/2012
Natural selection does not speak to the question of the origin of genetic diversity. All that Shapiro discusses in terms of cytogenetics and molecular genetics -- hybridization, genome duplication, symbiogenesis, chromosome restructuring, horizontal DNA transfer, mobile genetic elements, epigenetic switches, and natural genetic engineering (the ability of all cells to cut, splice, copy, and modify their DNA in non-random ways), are sources of genetic variation in addition to simple mutation. Once these mechanisms introduce new genetic variation into a population various forces of evolution such as natural selection and genetic drift mould that variation at the populational level leading to the generation of new species. There is no contradiction here. What Shapiro is talking about in no way challenges modern evolutionary science. Only those with a very narrow view of evolutionary biology sees a problem here. I value his insights and find his contributions very valuable but as far as I'm concerned some of his comments and criticisms regarding natural selection seem to be straw dogs.
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
James A. Shapiro
Author "Evolution: A View from the 21st Century
01:19 PM on 08/19/2012
DAE,

I don't know whether or not to thank you. On the one hand, you validate what I am saying about evolutionary processes. But on the other hand, you don't understand and disparage my argument.

What I am trying to say here is the we need to disentangle the various steps in the evolutionary process and ask where functional novelties originate. As long as one could assume that variation was a succession of small changes, there was an argument for natural selection playing that role. I don't agree with it, but I can see the logic behind it.

However, now that we know natural selection often confronts large genome changes and tests their adaptive merit, we have to ask where to locate the source of novelty in a successful innovation. I argue that it must be in the cell processes that produce the genome changes because their phenotypic consequences are presented to natural selection all at once.

Please let me know if this clarifies the argument, independently of whether you accept it or not.
12:03 AM on 08/23/2012
I'm really struggling to see your point on this one James. I'm left wondering whether it is because my degree is in geology. Is it possible that evolution is being taught 'better' in the geological sciences than in biology?!

You seem to be arguing that natural selection is not the source of diversity, but I took this already as a given. I thought natural selection was acting on the source of diversity and selecting for traits that survive - though really thats just a nice way of saying if an animal/plant has a mutation that stops it surviving then it tends not to.

'Mutation' is the engine going on here, but as you say we have discovered much diversity in this engine. Horizontal gene transfer, chromosome restructuring etc etc. This is all what natural selection acts on, but it isn't causing it. the causes are down to the chemistry and physics of the molecules themselves and what events occur during replication. Or at least that's what I remember from paleontology.
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
James A. Shapiro
Author "Evolution: A View from the 21st Century
03:25 PM on 08/19/2012
DAE,

There is a response put here hours ago. I don't know what is holding HuffPost up. Please be patient, and you will get a full reply to your comment.
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Wendell Read
07:32 PM on 08/17/2012
Part II

The changes which aid the organism in dealing with the environmental challenge spread through out the population of course with the aid of NS.

Note carefully the clear difference in the role of NS in these two cases: in the first NS is a key component. Without it the small individual beneficial mutations would never accumulate into a package and be spread through the population. In the second NS has no role except to purge the population of failed engineering experiments. The genomic changes generated by the experiments are themselves in no way influenced by NS.
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
James A. Shapiro
Author "Evolution: A View from the 21st Century
09:41 AM on 08/18/2012
Wendell,

I think your description is basically correct. I hope it helps people understand what I have been trying to explain.

The only thing I would add, is to point out that there are two competing explanations of how adaptive systems build up in genomes.

(1) In the conventional view, they arise gradually in a step-by-step process. As you point out, natural selection is an essential part of that gradualist process because each small step has to spread through the population before the next step has a reasonable probability of occurring.

(2) The alternative argument, based on DNA sequence evidence for rapid genome changes in evolution, is that adaptive DNA constructs are formed by the cell using and regulating its natural genetic engineering tools. That argument can be investigated experimentally because we do not have to wait eons for changes to accumulate. They can be detected and studied in real time.
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DakkonA
www.DisentangledReality.com
01:49 PM on 08/18/2012
"Engineering" directly implies that a cell can figure out what the stress it needs to deal with is and can then intelligently put together possible solutions. That is not what happens.
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Wendell Read
05:32 PM on 08/18/2012
I'll leave it to Prof. Shapiro to address your objection. Just to get the ball rolling, the following is a quote from his book Evolution: a View from the 21st Century.

Page 132: That is why the term engineering seems to be more appropriate for the built-in processes of self-modification that have operated over the course of evolution.
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
James A. Shapiro
Author "Evolution: A View from the 21st Century
01:28 PM on 08/19/2012
Dakkon,

I do not believe we are in a position to say what does or does not happen. The relevant experiments have not been performed.

Cells can respond to all kinds of inputs and challenges in adaptive ways. Just read any modern cell biology textbook. So it does not seem implausible to me that life history inputs can also influence the kinds of genome changes that occur when stimulated by circumstance.

We know quite well that a wide of stimuli activate natural genetic engineering (http://shapiro.bsd.uchicago.edu/TableII.7.shtml). Do they also influence the nature of the changes that occur or bias them in a potentially productive direction? I have suggested how to look at this experimentally (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-a-shapiro/experimental-evolution-ho_b_1619171.html and http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-a-shapiro/natural-genetic-engineering_b_1638823.html).

When we have done those experiments, and others that I have not thought of, then we will know what cells can and cannot do.
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Wendell Read
07:30 PM on 08/17/2012
Part I
I notice that there is a lot of confusion with regard to how Prof. Shapiro understands the role of Natural selection in the evolutionary process. Here is my take based on reading his book and carefully following his blogs. I am sure he will correct me if I am misrepresenting his position.

If evolution is primarily driven by the accumulation of small beneficial mutations then NS is essential to make possible this accumulation and guarantee that the accumulated mutations spread through out the population. In this scenario NS acts as an ‘accumulator’ of small beneficial mutations, thus creating a package of mutations which is beneficial. In a very real sense NS creates this beneficial package from the raw materials of random beneficial mutations.

Based on large amounts of data gathered in recent decades it is Shapiro's assertion that evolution is driven by a very different mechanism: A process which he designates by 'natural genetic engineering' (NGE) results in a large genomic change in a single individual. NS has no role in the generation of this change. There is no accumulation of small mutations; the genomic change results entirely from the cell exercising its NGE tools. NS does come into play however. Some of these engineered changes may be failures – they do not aid the organism in overcoming the environmental challenges which triggered them in the first place. Such failures are ‘purged’ by NS.
09:19 PM on 08/22/2012
I can understand (though I can't verify the evidence for) Shapiro's idea that NGE produces inventive changes at the cellular level (though I still think these changes will be tested by NS). But is he proposing that NGE can produce a wing, a prehensile tail, a shell, etc?
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James A. Shapiro
Author "Evolution: A View from the 21st Century
06:48 PM on 08/23/2012
Beau,

I think we need to proceed step-by-step in learning what NGE can do. I posted two blogs on this (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-a-shapiro/experimental-evolution-ho_b_1619171.html and http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-a-shapiro/natural-genetic-engineering_b_1638823.html). You can look at them to see how we might start this research. We have to learn to walk before we can learn to run.
04:46 PM on 08/17/2012
One half of the answer isn't the whole answer. The organism in which the change occurs MUST have some mechanism to sense and be incentivized by the potential external factors which make the change beneficial. Obviously our genes must have the potential for change before the change occurs. This can occur in only one of two ways.If the mutation is activated by external factors there must be a pathway for external factors to reach and modify our genes. Whether consciousness or subconsciousness is this pathway I don't know.
On the other hand if the mutation activates external change then there doesn't need to be a pathway for external factors to affect our genes. In such a case our genes would therefore be possessed of a limited number of permutations built in to their mathematical foundations. They would only be possessed of a survivability cut off by the limited number of external factors that they are initially designed to activate. In this case, however, the question must be asked- what triggers this mutation? Certainly not external factors. Are our genes therefore full of ticking time bombs waiting to be set off in order to facilitate external changes? Who knows.
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James A. Shapiro
Author "Evolution: A View from the 21st Century
09:20 PM on 08/17/2012
Kallian,

Not sure I follow your argument. However, we know that a wide variety of external stimuli activate DNA change operations. You can find a list and the pertinent references at http://shapiro.bsd.uchicago.edu/TableII.7.shtml.