I've Got A Secret...Government

Posted October 4, 2007 | 03:52 PM (EST)



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I guess we should have known that when the Bush Administration told us they disowned the 2002 torture memo in 2004, they really didn't mean it. And, in fact, they didn't.


The entire article in the New York Times about the secret torture memo created in February 2005 ("Torture Memo 2.0" as Jack Balkin calls it) is appalling, but this particular section really struck a nerve:



With virtually no experience in interrogations, the C.I.A. had constructed its program in a few harried months by consulting Egyptian and Saudi intelligence officials and copying Soviet interrogation methods long used in training American servicemen to withstand capture. The agency officers questioning prisoners constantly sought advice from lawyers thousands of miles away.


"We were getting asked about combinations -- 'Can we do this and this at the same time?'" recalled Paul C. Kelbaugh, a veteran intelligence lawyer who was deputy legal counsel at the C.I.A.'s Counterterrorist Center from 2001 to 2003.


Interrogators were worried that even approved techniques had such a painful, multiplying effect when combined that they might cross the legal line, Mr. Kelbaugh said. He recalled agency officers asking: "These approved techniques, say, withholding food, and 50-degree temperature -- can they be combined?" Or "Do I have to do the less extreme before the more extreme?"


The questions came more frequently, Mr. Kelbaugh said, as word spread about a C.I.A. inspector general inquiry unrelated to the war on terrorism. Some veteran C.I.A. officers came under scrutiny because they were advisers to Peruvian officers who in early 2001 shot down a missionary flight they had mistaken for a drug-running aircraft. The Americans were not charged with crimes, but they endured three years of investigation, saw their careers derailed and ran up big legal bills.


That experience shook the Qaeda interrogation team, Mr. Kelbaugh said. "You think you're making a difference and maybe saving 3,000 American lives from the next attack. And someone tells you, 'Well, that guidance was a little vague, and the inspector general wants to talk to you,'" he recalled. "We couldn't tell them, 'Do the best you can,' because the people who did the best they could in Peru were looking at a grand jury."



Now I don't know that I'm buying that the CIA has "virtually no experience in interrogations" -- many, including Naomi Klein in her book The Shock Doctrine, have documented the research into torture, brainwashing and interrogation techniques that the CIA has been refining and exporting since the 50s. But beyond that, the statement by Kelbaugh highlights how enabling the whole "war on terror" framework has become. These individuals have put their consciences in check, comfortable in the notion that what they do "maybe saving 3,000 American lives." Really, what they're worried about is having their "careers derailed" and running up "big legal bills."


That we have become a nation of sanctioned torturers doesn't even seem to graze them.


Glenn Greenwald correctly notes that as Americans, we've known that torture is being conducted in our name for a while. There's nothing new about that. But outrage with which these revelations should be greeted is, again, blunted by an acquiescence toward anything that is offered up in the name of the endless war on terror, and our "leaders" appear content to negotiate away their own power and avoid anything that smacks of a political battle.


Says Glenn:



One does not expect an administration to imprison U.S. citizens with no process, or to proclaim explicitly the right to break the law, or to systematically adopt policies of torture. For that reason, it is not surprising that it would take some time for the reaction to catch up to the full extent of the wrongdoing.


But we are now way past the point where that excuse is plausible. Anyone paying even minimal attention is well aware of exactly how radical and corrupt and lawless this administration is. We all know what has happened to our standing in the world, to our national character and our core political values, as a result of the previously unthinkable policies the Bush administration has relentlessly pursued. Ignorance or incredulity can no longer explain our acquiescence. Accommodating and protecting the lawbreaking of high Bush officials is widely seen by our Beltway elite as a duty of bipartisanship, a hallmark of Seriousness.



It's ironic, as many have noted, that today is the same day Patrick Leahy indicated he was going to cave on his request for documents from the Bush Administration before approving Mukasey as Attorney General. That's great. First Leahy wanted documents regarding the USA scandal and warrantless wiretapping. Then he backed down and said he would "settle for material about interrogation of suspected terrorists and warrantless wiretapping." Now he's willing to chuck the whole bucket. Because George Bush what, won't give them to him? This is headline news? Why ask for them in the first place? Is kabuki all the rage in capitol hill bars these days?


These people are, through their passivity and their unwillingness to uphold the principles they were elected to enforce, complicit in the recklessness and lawlessness of Bush Administration. They should be demanding all of these documents as well as any other "secret memos" that may be floating around. It isn't their choice, it's their obligation. It's what America thought it was voting for when it gave the Democrats a majority in the House and the Senate. And until these representatives start using their power to force some answers and stop these horrible abuses, they have blood on their hands and the suffering these victims on their consciences.

In order to sleep at night perhaps they, too, tell themselves that they're "saving 3,000 American lives"" with their "comity" and their "bipartisanship."


Dream on.

Jane Hamsher blogs at firedoglake.com.

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Thank you Jane,
Reading the Times this AM is not pleasant.
In fact I'm heartsick about what these people
are doing in our names.It's gotten so bad
I don't even recognize my country anymore
It seems that we have just lost our soul
along the way.It's long past the time
for us to demand accountability.It's time to impeach.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:35 AM on 10/07/2007

I woke up one morning and realized several things.
(1) We are the enemy. (The enemy lies, murders, robs, and pretends to be a good fellow. And that is how we behave.)
(2) Bush is bad, but he isn't the only one.
(3) Our leaders have a (not entirely) secret love.
(4) The Republican party is evil, has sold its soul to a some who don't care a rat's ass for the American people. But it is not the only one; otherwise the secret love wouldn't be secret any more.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:49 AM on 10/07/2007

Keep up the good work Jane. The loss of Freedom that Americans have faced since Reagan and accelerated by Bush is appalling and Un-American.
Both parties have mostly sold out to Big Business and will take ALL our freedom and institute a government along the lines of Communist China....you will be free to spend and make money but nothing else.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:33 AM on 10/06/2007

Here's a bumper sticker for you: CAESAR 2008
Think things are bad now? Our next "president" will be an Emperor, so we'd better back someone who can handle Imperial power. (WHO?) While we're all squabbling over "who dunnit" the Empire has materialized, enabled by the Internet and other pan-global technologies. Go back? Ridiculous! We are an Empire, let's be a great Empire.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:29 AM on 10/05/2007

Et tu horseface?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:22 PM on 10/05/2007

Perhaps we should all keep in mind that the Supreme Court ruled in June 2006 that all US prisoners were subject to the protections of the Geneva Conventions, which include a prohibition against torture.

Yet, in July 2006, after a monthlong debate inside the administration, President Bush signed a new executive order authorizing the use of what the administration calls "enhanced" interrogation techniques"the details remain secret"and officials say the CIA again is holding prisoners in "black sites" overseas. The executive order was reviewed and approved by Mr. Bradbury and the Office of Legal Counsel." (NY Times)

So Bush not only thumbs his nose at American citizens, he gives the finger to Congress and the Supreme Court, too.

He and his minions should be driven directly to the Hague from the WH at gunpoint. He has totally destroyed the premises of Democracy, violated American and international law, and has set himself up as the dictator he openly admitted he wanted to be.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:56 AM on 10/05/2007

Torture, disappearing people, rendition, holding people without benefit of legal representation for indeterminate periods. This is to "save lives."

Tell me how I'm safe now? I stop worrying about dying in a terrorist attack and start second-guessing every word I say because the government might disappear me and no one would even know about it for weeks or months. How does that make life better?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:37 AM on 10/05/2007

Once upon a time, loyal Democratic moderates insisted that the poor well-meaning Dems were still a couple of bricks short of a load that could bury the criminals in power, i.e. the Republics.

BUT, they assured the doubtful, once the committee chairmen got rolling, it was No More Mister Nice Guy time. Heavy hitters like Waxman, Conyers, et al would hold Republic feet to the fire-- all the way up to the groin!

But now we see that power pitchers like Leahy aren't exactly smokin' them inside-- they're loading the bases with intentional walks. Gee, how did THAT happen?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:34 AM on 10/05/2007

based on what we have heard about the Bush administration the stuff we have not heard about(and that is most of it I am sure)is far worse and as anti-American as can be.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:13 AM on 10/05/2007

TonalCrow may be on to something.

WH is against the legistlation that would put contractors in Iraq subject to US law...on national security grounds.

The "3000 lives they may be saving" is WH doublespeak...the instruments in place are saving and protecting the 3000-odd complicit players/implementers/enablers in all these machinations from any and all accountability and prosecutions.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:50 AM on 10/05/2007

Here's a news flash: torture doesn't work. When you apply pain and stress, the subject will say whatever s/he has to say in order to stop the pain and stress. S/he will "confess" to anything, even asking for cues as to what the torturer wants to hear.

We can prove this by simple experiment. Let's subject Dick Cheney to waterboarding, and ask him if he's ever been in a bathroom with Larry Craig...

http://www.osborneink.com/fiction.htm

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:33 AM on 10/05/2007


Torture does work.

It makes the cowardly armchair tough guys feel manly. Just like attacking weak countries that have not attacked the US.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:26 PM on 10/05/2007

Why not make it a trio: Big Dick, Larry, and Gonzo.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:52 PM on 10/05/2007

Brilliant & crystal-clear, Jane. I'm going to use some of this in letters to my congressman. I hope Pelosi & Reid take note of this. Love your work-keep it comin'

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:14 AM on 10/05/2007

I wonder if this is the "Strong" American Government Mitt Romney keeps talking about?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:09 AM on 10/05/2007

Germans living close enough to one of the death camps to smell the stench swore they didn't know what was going on there when it would've been impossible not to. Americans know that we're torturing people because there is enough information available that confirms that we do so, yet we're willing to believe the Liar in Chief and we're shocked to find out that the rest of the world has disdain for us. We are as complicit in all of this as were the Germans, who we've held accountable in all of our history books since the end of WWII. How will we rouse ourselves from this long, dark sleep of indifference? When will break free of the bondage of fear that we've allowed this bunch of criminals to shackle us with? Yes, it was awful watching those buildings come down. But, is the correct response to cower? Maybe we should all be required to watch Burns' The War until we recover our national spirit.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:30 AM on 10/05/2007

In November of 2002 I read something on the ABC website that made my blood run cold. A poll had asked how many Americans approved of torture. I don't remember what percent said they would approve. It didn't matter what the percent was; all that mattered was that the subject (that should have been more taboo than incest, child-molestation, rape or murder) had been breached. Let me repeat: this was November of 2002. I knew then and there that it was all over for us. That anyone could present such an abhorrent question to the American public meant that torture was right around the corner, if not already at hand. My take then is the same as my take now: if torturing someone could save the entire population of this earth, I wouldn't do it. Period. Why would you? In torturing, you've as good as sentenced humanity to extinction anyway - so where's the gain? Good does not come from evil. That's just the way it is.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:32 AM on 10/05/2007

Here's just another reason for the world to hate US. is this the damn paln ? 'Cause Bushco is doing a great job then.
WE CAN'T AFFORD TO WAIT TO THE '08 ELECTIONS- THSI ADMIN MUST GO NOW!!! Demand Impeachment be put back on our Constitutional table - Pelosi & Reid- or we need to get those two out now for treason. Impeachment is ALWAYS an option ~!!!!When they said they wouldn't push it- that gave Bushco the go ahead with plan, we'll just pretend to be against it an djust powerless- BullSh*t!!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:08 AM on 10/05/2007

"We do not torture, period" President Bush has often stated. We torture language, we torture people.

For all the torture apologists among Republicans and Democrats let me ask a question using the beloved "ticking bomb -- save thousands of lives" scenario. If it's okay to torture the person you THINK has the knowledge to stop the ticking bomb, is it okay to also torture his children in front of him? Because history shows us that there is no moral bulwark between the two. A nation that tortures the father will also torture the wife and children to get at the father. Sordid news accounts from Iraq show this is indeed what we have become. This is why the photographs from Abu Ghraib have not been released. The sexual degradation and murder of detainees and their wives were all done under the "ticking bomb" doctrine.

Own it or disown it. The Republicans own it. Alan Dershowitz and Joe Lieberman and other "liberal Jews" own it. Christians who support Bush own it. Democrats too weak to stand up against it own it. Forcing an Iraqi woman to drink a glass of male semen with a belt tightened around her neck because her husband is detained in a US military prison is what Alan Dershowitz wanted in his famous 2001 op-ed in the New York Times. Own it or disown it.

What would Moses do? Own it or disown it?





    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:57 AM on 10/05/2007

Dems better be in play with some sort of pre-conceived game plan and just waiting the precise moment to let it all drop....

If they were learned, anthrax attacked Leahy would be calling this AG nomination to stand and grilling him about 9/11...

They better be up to something.

If they're really this stupid... this useless... this incompetent... this easy to f@#$, God help US.

At the rate of Dems & duped Repubs, how long could a, say, Hitler be in power before they'd have the epiphany to drop the stars and stripes facade and do their constitutional oath?

One has to wonder about what exactly constitutes as "high crimes and misdemeanors"... If the Bush mafia can get away with THIS much.

BTW~ Why isn't the MSM or Huffington making mention of another apparent fragging of one of our soldiers?

"If I die, promise me you'll have it investigated."
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/CBS_Family_of_gay_soldier_wants_1004.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:14 AM on 10/05/2007

Investigate? Investigate?

As in Twin Towers, Kennedy"s, ML King?

Well,,,, I was trying to remember back.

The Native Americans were a bother, so they had to go.
Blacks were trying to takeover, so we fixed their wagon.
The Chinese got all uppity so we banned and excluded them.
The Irish were a threat to the workingman, so they got neglected.
The Italians expected to only work 80 hours a week so they were fired or exploited.
Then the women wanted to vote, OH MY!
Jews got all financial on us so they were ostracized.
The Farmers got all a Co-Op and collective thinking. Yep, bankrupt them and take their land.
We feared Communism AND Jews, so we financed Hitler.
We feared the Gays in the Government, so we blackballed them. (Later 40s.)
We hopped back on the Reds, 50s and early 60s.
The Blacks popped up again in those days, so we killed a few of their leaders off.
Darn it, the Women now wanted rights again, slander their movement.
Then came the Hippies, we bought them off, or drugged them up, a Mercedes in every driveway.
Then came the Yuppies, same deal, a Mercedes in every driveway.
The Next-Gens were easier, no books, just give them First person, Shooter Computer games or Meth.
The Muslims got together, so lets divide them and make a war or 5.

Wait!!!

Who is left?

White Evangelical Christians?

Oh,,,,, they are easy.

By the time we are done with them doofs, if you even mention the name of,,,, Jesus Christ,,,,, in a room, people will run screaming from the building and call the FBI and Fatherland Security.

Yeah!!!!!!!

WE WIN!

All the best

Knute (Neo-LIB)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:06 AM on 10/05/2007


In D.C there are no lies.
It's known as...."Intellectual Deception"
Sad but true!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:28 AM on 10/05/2007

You get the government you deserve. Americans voted for this clown, now you suffer the consequences, just don't inflict your stupidity on the rest of the world.

You think torture and illegal invasion and occupation of other countries will save American lives. Perhaps, perhaps not. 9/11 was a tragedy, but 3000 deaths are nothing really compared to deaths from gun violence, road safety, poor health care etc. You would save many more lives declaring war on hand guns and donuts for a fraction of the price. Terrorism is the least of your worries. Get some perspective.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:31 AM on 10/05/2007

Bush was voted for, but Gore won the election, remember. George Bush stole the election in Florida, how convenient it was, for this to happen, in the very State that his Brother was Governor. There is alot more behind it than what has been told, just as in Ohio in 2004. This went to the Supreme Court and they didn't allow all the votes to be recounted. The Supreme Court appointed George Bush as President. The same problems occured in Ohio, in 2004, but Kerry didn't step forward to challenge it. Then why would Kerry, he was part of the same Secret organization, Skull & Bones, that George Bush was a member of. These Skull & Bones people take oaths to each other for life, no matter what side they are on, see the movie "The Good Shepard."

Just a note, California is going to be the big problem in 2008, the Republicans are working on that one right now. In my honest opinion we won't see an election in 2008.

As far as other half of your argument, I agree. However, the Bush Administration does not speak for most Americans, and has been the most abusive Administration we have ever had. Maybe this will make the American people really wake up, but then again it is probably to late. Your right terrorism is the least of our worries, the Bush Administration however is the worst of our worries.

The part that is more scarey than ever, is what they are doing in our names, that we don't know about. That space shuttle sure has gone up alot lately. All these people left the White House, I am curious as to why?????? I trust non of them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:21 AM on 10/05/2007

gw bush is just a born liar and can't help his self. You can tell when he is not speaking the truth. His lips move, anything out of his mouth is generally a lie. Sometimes a big one and sometimes a little one, but never the less still a lie.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:21 AM on 10/05/2007

Check out PBS Bill Moyers - "Buying The War" http://joox.net/cat/44/id/1221517 You can find lots of other great documentaries on this site.

Check out Judge Andrew Napolitano - "Nation of Sheep"
http://www.thedavidallenshow.com/website/podcasts/Entries/2007/9/20_Judge_Andrew_Napolitano_-_%22Nation_of_Sheep%22_and_Ron_Paul_for_President.html

The US is turning into a Police State.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:29 PM on 10/04/2007

Today's news makes it clear that waterboarding was secretly allowed under Bush, who then denied that we engage in torture. And his Press Secretary said today that the US "does not torture"---which can be true only if waterboarding is not torture. But there is this from WaPo Oct 5, 2006:

>>>...in 1947, the United States charged a Japanese officer, Yukio Asano, with war crimes for carrying out...waterboarding on a U.S. civilian. The subject was strapped on a stretcher that was tilted so that his feet were in the air and head near the floor, and small amounts of water were poured over his face, leaving him gasping for air until he agreed to talk.

"Asano was sentenced to 15 years of hard labor," Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.) told his colleagues last Thursday.... "We punished people with 15 years of hard labor when waterboarding was used against Americans in World War II," he said.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:11 PM on 10/04/2007

The Bush Adminstration actually think the Show "24" is a reality show.


Funny, they say we don't torture, but in the same sentence say the techniques used have save lives.

Most military experts will tell you torture does not work.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:11 PM on 10/04/2007

Yeah, they torture, and guess who has been in the forefront against it. John McCain. I guess those who criticize McCain as an Admin lapdog fail to see that.

McCain is a true hero who does what is right for this country.

His position on Iraq is no different that ofHillary Clinton's, if you really look past her bullshit triangulation. She sees troops being in Iraq past 2013, so how is that ending the War.

McCain was for comprehensive immigration policy that would protect our borders, but the right wing nuts called it amnesty, so as of tonight our borders are still unprotected.


    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:08 PM on 10/04/2007

Yes, it was McCain who made such a fuss about the practice, and then let himself be bought off with a visit to the Oval Orifice. He came out of that meeting proclaiming that the administration had come around to his view, when his subsequent actions show it was exactly the opposite.

He's been completely silent ever since, when fact after fact came out showing that the admin never had any intention of changing a thing. It's almost as if he got blackmailed or something, when he met with King George.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:00 PM on 10/04/2007

McCain obviously either does not understand freedom of religion or he has stopped caring. I used to think I could live with McCain Presidency but not since his recent insanity. Does a sane person walk around in a flak jacket with a body guard to PROVE how safe it is.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:52 PM on 10/05/2007

What Americans should really be asking themselves is:

1. Why is all of this secrecy necessary against a supposed enemy immensly weaker than the Soviet Union at the height of the Cold War ever was; and therefore

2. All of this secrecy as designed by the Bush "administration" is really designed to be used against the American people themselves, and to weaken the foundations of freedom and democracy upon which America was founded.

What better way to mask their true intentions, than to claim the opposite: Fighting for the preservation of freedom and democracy in America, when in fact they actually want to eliminate it.
_

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:36 PM on 10/04/2007
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