What Part of "We Don't Trust You" Do You Not Understand?
Yup, we're in a mess now, and no one quite understands what the mess is or what will happen, but everyone knows who got us here. I guess my favorite article on the bailout is by Ben Stein, at the NY Times, who I don't think is voting for the bailout. Here's his practical suggestion: "By the way, if we are actually thinking about tossing the Constitution out the window, why not simply annul these credit-default swap contracts? With that done, the incomprehensibly large liability of the banks would cease, and we wouldn't need this staggering bailout. Shouldn't we consider making the speculators pay some of the price?" The rest of the article is good, too.
On balance, I guess I believe those who say that the ruling class we have now are the ones who got us into this mess, and what they are asking for is more rope with which to hang themselves, and us. If there's going to be a bailout, bailout from the bottom and let the benefits trickle upward. But the ruling class sits in its ruling class bubble and can't imagine how things would work for them if we did that.
Ever heard of "creative destruction"? That's a phrase free market economists are always applying to the effects of the free market when it goes wild and hops from bubble to bubble. Bridges, farms, houses, freeways, people's bank accounts, investments, auto companies, the Chilean economy, the nation of Iraq, public schools, ecological balance, hey, if they offer no short-term profits, then let the market destroy them and build something better. But we absolutely can't apply that term to credit-default swap contracts, no no no, they are too big to fail!
Too big for creative destruction? That's always the last resort of scoundrels. The ruling class drives the bus to the edge of the cliff. The folks in the first class section of the bus climb out the windows. The bus is hanging by the two back wheels. The drivers turn to the rest of the passengers and start screaming, "Save the bus! Save the bus!" and the passengers are expected to get out and push the bus back onto the road, at which point the first class passengers will get back on, and the drivers will drive the bus away, and those who pushed it back on the cliff will be left standing there. Essentially, this is what you should be thinking when you hear the words "too big to fail".
But the ruling class has to learn its lesson, and those who voted for them, or didn't make the alternative case well enough to dissuade those voters have to learn the same lesson. What you did was wrong -- morally wrong and practically wrong, corrupt and stupid, evil and dopey ALL AT THE SAME TIME. Because if they don't learn their lesson once and for all, then we will have to pay all over again when they screw up the next time. That's just the way it is, Tom Friedman, John McCain, Henry Paulson, George W. Bush, Ronald Reagan. When you are wrong over and over, we don't think you will ever be right.
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There was a popular wise crack in the 1970s, "The bigger they are, the harder they fall.". Does anybody remember it, now? I didn't think so. I'll get out of the way; your ambulence is here. The EMT's will pick you up from your fall. They will get X-rays at the ER to see if you broke anything when you fell. Call me when you get better. Cheer up they have light weight splints to replace the old plaster casts. Yes, you can take off the splint, wash up & put the splint back on. Yes, it's kind of like using your revolving credit home loan to pay off your credit card. It relieves the pressure & you can keep clean. Get well soon.
The fact that “president” Bush supports this legislation should be a huge red flag to American taxpayers. Consider the obvious parallels between the run-up to the Iraq invasion and the bailout package: the strategy includes fear mongering, obfuscation of the facts, and outright lies. The administration is once again asking for unprecedented power and access to the Treasury in a thinly veiled attempt to grab as much cash for themselves and their cronies before the next president takes office.
No economists support this legislation. The credit markets can be fixed without rescuing irresponsible financial institutions, and the bailout package does not address the fundamental problems with the system. We’ll be facing the same problems in the near future. Yes, the next few years will be painful, regardless of the passage or defeat of this bill. But why opt for short-term relief and long-term pain when there are alternatives which would produce short-term pain and long-term relief?
Jane -
A prescient observation in your byline.
""If there's going to be a bailout, bailout from the bottom and let the benefits trickle upward.""
OK. How do you bailout from the bottom?
You need to inject capital into Main Street. And then let it trickle up.
How do you inject capital into main Street.
Through GI, debt-free, monetary credits directly into health, education, welfare, infrastructure and the green economy.
Again.
Through GI, debt-free, monetary credits.
Government issue money.
We're not borrowing from ANYBODY.
Same exact scale and same exact amount as the debt-pile headed to Wall Street, where another prescient comment was made by Mr. Paulson.
As he was falling all over himself for an explanation of WHY this thing makes sense, he said:
""THE TAXPAYERS ARE ALREADY ON THE HOOK"".
Ladies and gentlemen:
THAT statement deserves a Congressional investigation - not because it is untrue, but because it is TRUE.
Debt-free money.
THAT is the answer.
read this:
http://www.monetary.org/amacolorpamphlet.pdf
Jane, this is something we CAN do.
As another article points out, tight credit is the natural result of a recessionary economy, so the people who can't get loans now won't be able to get loans after Wall St gets its welfare check, either.
Of course the media and big business have teamed up, but don't forget that the other member of the team are the politicians, who have been playing this game for decades as well, and that's both Republicans and Democrats. If anything, Dems are a bit more repulsive because their usual role in the farce is to pretend to be standing up for the little guy and caring about the common man, leaving the Republicans to pay the mustache-twirling villains--but as soon as they act out their little drama, they quietly agree on exactly how best to benefit themselves and their corporate owners and the voters be damned. An excellent example of this phony play acting is the way they are doing the bail out bill. A show of outrage for the voters benefit, then some media fearmongering, then a claim that they have improved the bill to make it palatable to their constituents and it gets passed with every detail their big business owners wanted.
Would you please add Obama to that list?
So what else is new?
There's a verse in a tune I wrote that goes:
Manchild of the Promised Land
"Let our factories turn to rust
corporate criminals, bring our markets to bust
then you wonder why, in only God We Trust
I'm a manchild, of the promised land"
copyright 2007 use by permission
TJ..
What in the heck do you think caused the Great Depression?
Our Government, led by then President Herbert Hoover
did NOTHING!
At least something is happening...I hope that we can give Wall Street and Republicans a really good
SCARE...
SCARED SO MUCH THAT FOLKS VOTE DEMOCRAT!
Please, the problem is that democrats and americans, in general, have too much fear (of EVERYTHING) and the rethugs have none.
You're better off voting Independent. If you think the Democrats are any better than the Repubs, then you've got your head in the sand. Both parties have more than enough to be ashamed of. Let's start with allowing entire political parties (and all of their elected officials) to be bought and controlled by lobbyists. That, my dear SonofLiberty, is not a republican-only trait. It's a trait of ALL political parties, and your precious "tolerant" Democrat party is every bit as guilty of it as the repubs.
Look, vote for whoever you want, but what got America in this mess is people like you, being blinded into voting straight party lines, and refusing to hold your elected officials responsible for their crimes.
it's a national past time to vote for the incumbent. if this last congress retains its democrat majority, there's little hope for the future of America. After all, how can a body of government with a seventeen percent approval rating get re-elected?
the crime in all of this is that they actually have the GALL to run for re-election in the first place, rather than retiring in SHAME.
The Democrats are also owned by Wall Street
You imply, Jane, that the ruling class will learn its lesson, if made to do so. I don't share your optimism. I think that what we have here are people incapable of taking responsibility for their mistakes and, therefore, incapable of learning. They will continue to blame poor Blacks for the crisis, just like they blamed them for the Katrina fiasco. Sorry to say it, but these people are lost to us, too far gone.
I agree wholeheartedly. Sociopaths cannot be reasoned with on the basis of how harmful their actions are for other people, and never believe their actions can be wrong.
You don't reason with people like that. You just stop them.
I don't think anyone has yet pointed out that this proves supply-side economics is a farce - voodoo economics, as someone's daddy used to say.
The whole securities fraud that started the "meltdown" is due to Wall Streets DEMAND for more mortgages, even as everyone who wanted and could afford to buy a house had bought one.
The mood on the Senate floor is not one of a bunch of happy campers.
They've moved the 'discussion' to Amtrak.
I can just imagine what's going on in those 'sacred hallways'....
I see twisted arms laying by the side of the doorways.
I think it's going to be a squeaker.
They keep bringing up auto dealers not being able to sell cars.
Where do YOU rate car salesmen on your 'trust and truthiness' list?
Kay Bailey's voting no.
I'm boggled by the whole "people can't buy cars" argument. Are we supposed to forget that gas is $3.50 a gallon? Could that possibly be why people aren't buying cars?
Not in this case, no. There was a car dealer on NPR talking about this. He has customers coming in who want to buy cars, and who have decent credit, but they still can't get loans. I think they're using car loans as an example because "businesses can't get short-term loans to make their payrolls" is too complicated for most people and still sounds like it ought to be somebody else's problem.
Wonder why the phones and emails aren't working on Capitol Hill? ;)
THANKFULLY for once, the constituents are writing, calling and screaming. We should do it everyday.
Tried about every 5 minutes during my hour commute home to get a call through to the Senate switchboard last night. Nothing but busy signals and messages that all lines were busy. Did get a couple of E-mails through to my bastard (allegeldy Democrat) Senators earlier in the day - for all the good it appears to have done.
Luckily my Representative (a Republican) is one of the horde that voted against passage last time out. I wrote him again this morning to thank him for that vote, and to ask him to hold firm on it.
If the greasy little Congress-critter actually DOES still vote against the Bill - I just might have to consider crossing party lines to vote for him next month.
Young lady - and other Utopian Kool Aid drinkers - if we could take all the wealth in the world and distribute it equally among the worlds population, when we came back to see how things were going 5 years later we'd find that 10% of the people would, once again, control 90% of the wealth. That's just the way human beings are built! It may not be "fair" (a much overused word), but it would be TRUE (a much underused word).
Having had a cup or 2 of Kool Aid myself over the years, I would say that striving for that utopia is one of the good things about us.
Ha! But it's the conservatives and republicans that are asking for money to be redistributed - to them.
That's why the progressive taxes are needed forever.
Jane consistently puts her finger on the crux of the issues, as in, "It's the immorality, stupid".
"...What [they] did was wrong -- morally wrong and practically wrong, corrupt and stupid, evil and dopey..."
That says it all. But the lesson will most assuedly NOT be learned by anyone able to do anything about it; the same people who created the problem are still just as immoral, corrupt, stupid and evil today as they were yesterday, and they still have the money and power, albeit a bit less than before this debacle. Their schemes have been disrupted temporarily due to the sheer extremes of their greed and immorality, but only temporarily. They are already plotting how to profit from all this.
The Democrats have given us absolutely no reason to think they will do better when they get their coveted 60 Senate votes. They are part of the ruling class that created the problems. Obama, with his inherent moral compass, may, perhaps, mitigate the worst excesses and stupidities, but only a little. He still has to work with "those who brung him", which are only marginally less corrupt than the present crew..
I don't see how the trickle up system will work. When you give people who are tight on money a check, they aren't going to go out and spend it in the economy, they will most likely use it on bills and payments.
Bills and payments are NOT part of the economy? Since when?
It isn't helping our consumer spending which makes up 70% of our country's GDP. Spending money on a house payment ins't sending money out in the free market.
Massive defaults on many of those "bills and payments" due to inability to pay are what contributed to this economic mess in the first place.
If I got a bailout, the money would go straight to Countrywide, Citibank Visa, Bank of Hawaii, and First Hawaiian Bank. Then they could keep loaning out the money. That clear things up for you?
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