The Alabama of Pennsylvania Mirrors New Hampshire
Within an hour of arriving in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania for a politics and media panel at Gettysburg College a week ago, I was reminded that I was in the Alabama of Pennsylvania. So I decided to take the pulse of the voters.
58-year old Dee Rohrbaugh was busy buying drinks for the bar as she told me about her evening waitressing job and the pleasure she gets watching her grandson every day while her children work.
"I have to be at my Saturday job at Friendly's tomorrow morning, so I have to have my fun tonight" said Dee with a smile. "I like Hillary. I liked the 90's. It was good times." Dee's favorite talk show? Chris Matthews' Hardball.
A parking lot attendant told me he liked Clinton too. "With gas prices what they are, and the economy where it is, I think I like her." Sitting next to him, a middle-aged blond woman disagreed.
"I'm with Obama. He's smart. He was right about the war. He'll take us further."
Walking down the street, I saw three dapper gentlemen in tuxedos who were African American.
"Who are you going to vote for?" I asked.
"Obama." They said in turn, walking proudly.
On campus at Gettysburg, lots of Obama support.
This mirrors what we saw in New Hampshire. The older, blue collar voter seems most comfortable with Senator Clinton. Young people, African Americans, and some independents trend towards Obama. The issue? Not Iraq. The economy. In Pennsylvania, the jobs may be different, but their priorities are not.
Some people share the credit for the economic boom of the '90s with Bill Clinton. Some with both Clintons. Some think it was just good timing.
"I don't see how she, as first lady, was responsible for the economy," says Dee's friend, a 60-year old Republican who plans to vote for Obama if he is the nominee. "I say, let Obama in. Try to get the race issue off the table once and for all."
It's anybody's guess how the state will shake out a week from today. Listening to those voters in Pennsylvania, I'd guess it won't turn on the word "bitter," "gun" or "God." It seems more likely to turn on comfort and trust, and the question of who is better able to turn three jobs back into one.
Loading comments…
Want to reply to a comment? Hint: Click "Reply" at the bottom of the comment; after being approved your comment will appear directly underneath the comment you replied to
I'm so glad the PA primary is around the corner, cause I can't take anymore political hacks who keep trying to TELL the voters what it IS they want, rather than reporting on it.
As their predictions have fallen far short on several recent primary results, I think they should be taking a more wait and see attitude, rather than Once Again, "TELLING" us what is going to happen.
LET THE VOTERS DECIDE!!!!!!
The thrust of the article was that the PA vote will be essentially "true to form". the Comments are essentially "true to form". I think it Off The Bus wrote a piece about the difference in food in restaurants
in Eastern and Western Pennsylvania, it would take about 3 comments for someone to throw a bomb at the supporters of HRC, or vice-versa. Having nothing to do, usually, with the article. Apparently schoolyard mentality doesn't end when you leave school. Thank goodness we're all protected by our keyboards. Anyway, Go Obama!
I really wonder if anyone is giving an honest answer as to who they will vote for.
If what you saw and heard in Alabama, PA is typical, then those older white blue collar workers better start seeing and hearing the truth about HRC. She is a LIAR and her attitude towards them is, "Screw them". And if you don't think this is what she really feels, then you are only kidding yourself and do NOT want to know the facts and the truth. It's a hell of a thing when one is not even HONEST with oneself! Glad I don't fall into that category!
Just read the comments here if you want to see how Obama supporters share in his snotty attitude about PA voters.
"if you dont like obama, you must be a racist, or illiterate, or some old feminist hag" is the gist of it.
It funny how the ELITISTS IN THE MEDIA and the smarter-than-thou Obama supporters are the only ones who don't view his comments as elitist. HMM?
What can you say about voters who, when given a chance to ask the probable next president of the US a question on a nationally televised debate, choose to ask about a f---ing LAPEL PIN? Ummm... that they ARE AS STUPID AS WE FEARED? That they are brainwashed by the 24-hour gossip/"news" cycle and know nothing substantive about ANY issues beyond a 10-second sound bite that they heard on FOX news? That they are playing shuflflboard on the deck of the sinking Titanic that is the US economy right now? Sweet, sweet Jesus save us from the American "electorate"!
No--but PA may turn on the word CLING.
Get it right--it wasn't bitter-gate you BLIND Obama supporting bloggers that write and spin for Huf. It was "CLING-GATE" - that was the insulting/elitist part.
But why would I expect any blogger that writes for Huf to bring us the truth at this point.
I don't know why would you "expect any blogger that writes for Huf to bring us the truth at this point"? What do you mean by 'at this point'?
Furthermore, what is it about you and the rest of the HRC supporters who simply REFUSE to admit that she is nothing more than a transparent, phoney LIAR. If you could explain how she did NOT lie about Bosnia, please do so in an effort to convert me to her side. I just cannot explain Bosnia as a mis-statement by someone who told the lie repeatedly! Care to explain it?
Disparaged Obama has shown himself to be a very proficient prevaricator himself.
It is hard for Obama supporters to see past the stars in their eyes, and the hate for Hillary. If you really were to compare what they say instead of parroting what you hear, you might come to a different conclusion as to whom you will be voting for.
As a person who grew up in the south I think it is very wrong to call part of PA 'Alabama'. It seems James Carville invented the phrase and he too is from the south so I don't know what his deal is per his comments. Just so you know yankees ain't from the south and should stop being so jealous. Maybe there should be an article about the 'Detroit' of Alabama? The Mexico City of Los Angles?
I grew up in the South and I still live in the South. I can tell that you're a Southerner too. You're a literalist. The capitol of Texas is not "T".
Well, if it hinges on trust, I can't see Clinton winning. Do you trust a liar?
I see several Clinton mainstays -
- feminists who want a woman president. Period. Eve one who rose as "wife of".
- democrat party hacks - the democratic machine is behind Clinton. It's her turn.
- bigots - won't vote for a black. period.
- the ignorant who vote name recognition - the Clinton name.
Those groups aren't swayed by logic or issues. If you are concerned about the economy, would you pick the candidate funded and run by lobbyists, of the one funded by 1.3 million fellow citizens? But that's only if you actually think about it.
bigots - won't vote for a black. period.
- the ignorant who vote name recognition - the Clinton name
===========
More of that ELITIST ATTITUDE from Obamanation.
It's called telling the truth. Your candidate should try it sometime.
"bigots - won't vote for a black. period."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i've asked a couple people why they won't vote for barack obama.
the issues? no... he's a democrat? no... reverend wright? no.
"because he's black... i'll never vote for someone who's black."
if that's not bigotry, what is it?
Well, speaking from the beautiful state of Alabama I must say, folks need to pay attention to what happened in the Democratic races in Alabama - Obama did pretty good in Alabama. We had a good number of _Republicans_ on our Alabama for Obama team, they had read up on him and were well versed on his policies, etc. and they were quite effective in getting other Republicans to swing to Team Obama. So if this Alabama of Pennsylvania inference holds true.... ;-)
Difference here, this "Alabama" doesn't have the black population that the real Alabama has. I am from PA, and here's a little secret, sad to say, but Hillary will win because Obama is black. Plain, simple, true. I'm a black woman saying this. He will have a lock on Philly, the burg and even gettysburgh, but west of that, forget about it.
Thank you RedBirdy....I thought I was gonna have to come down there and explain the whole "Alabama of PA" thing. For several reasons, most people carry around the notion that PA is part of the great, liberal, progressive NORTH. That would be true for only the far eastern portion of the state and the largest cities, more or less. Otherwise, in terms of political opinion, educational level, work ethic, racial makeup, racial attitudes, cultural values, ancestry, economic opportunity, there's not but a dime's bit of difference between Pennsylvanians and most of the white population of Alabama. Hence the phrase: "The Alabama of PA."..
The cleverness of the phrase annoys both the Pennsylvanians to which it is applied and the Alabamians who are being held up as the standard bearer of the "redneck" vein that runs through American working class culture.
Sheesh, but some people are just too dumb for their pants! Thanks for clearing that up!
"Thank you", I've got to remind myself, each and every day that I own a computer and don't have to be brainwashed by corporate media. It's sad so many good, but ignorant voter's aren't aware of the issues and what these candidate's past REALLY holds. The mere fact that Hillary hasn't been run off or dutifully bowed out by now, is stunning. Far greater politicians saw the wisdom in conceding (Chris Dodd and Joe Biden to name two) and letting the Democratic party "put it's money where it's mouth is". But no, we still have this buzzkill of a power freak that doesn't know jack about class. Very awkward for the Hillbillies. Problem is, these two don't have a lick of shame. Shameless and no class. My, my...
I am more than discontent, I am pissed! We, the middle income and lower on the pay scale have been screwed for many years of republican rule. We had the Clinton times which were kind of nice due to the Tech bubble. It kind of reminds me of the roaring 20's when I think back now.
I am begining to see some reason coming back into more of these posts here on Huff.
We must defeat the republicans no matter which is our nominee.
I am an Obama supporter but I will damn sure become a Hillary supporter the moment she proves she can be our nominee.
4 more years of the same must not happen.
Democrats unite!
We must unite regardless of the feelings that exist now and fate is on our side.
This is our "V for Vendetta" moment in history...........................
I agree with this conclusion and with the sentiments expressed here about the necessity to put a Democrat in the White House. I hope that Democrat is Obama, but I've always maintained that whomever ends up being the nominee will get my vote in November. The tactics of Hillary Clinton are making it more and more difficult to do, but if for whatever reason she ends up being the nominee, I will vote for her in the general election. Based on her voting record she's only marginally better than McCain, and despite the fact that her campaign tactics were developed by Karl Rove, at least it's SOME improvement. Perhaps the most critical reason for putting a Democrat in the White House is ultimately not what policies that she/he promotes (there is after all a Congress to deal with) but both appointments to the Supreme Court, which are without fail going to come in the next Administration, if not before (Please Supreme Court Justices, don't die on us yet!) and getting the Federal bureaucracies to function again as they were intended to.
The Bushes have made a mess and a mockery of government.
I would hope that all serious and reasonable people, no matter whom they support in the primaries will keep this in mind come November.
I'm active in politics here in PA...a Democratic committeman for several years now.
As far as my personal choice next week, I'm still unsure because policy-wise, both candidates seem relatively close, and I have a week to decide. Please, no chiding about Mrs. Clinton voting "for the war", both candidates have voted for the funding for it due to their political realities. Who knows how Mr. Obama would have actually voted had he been in office when the first vote actually occurred? My own opinion is that "violence is the last resort of the incompetent" (Asimov), and anyone providing funding to support a war while speaking against it doesn't really have the courage of their convictions.
I like both candidates, and in November I will push for either to be elected over McCain, and have my local constituents on the same path regardless of who they support in the primary, which appears to be tilted toward Clinton.
Both Clinton and Obama have their good. The reality is that they are both professional politicians neither of which has CEO experience. Anyone who claims to want change, then says they won't support whichever candidate is the nominee really is a fool in my view. I'd be proud to see either one elected in November.
Even more important than president is a solid, fillibuster-proof majority in the Senate and increased the majority in the House, so that if McCain wins there may be a return to some sanity.
Good analysis, the Dems should not take their eyes off the ball, GOP took this country to war on a lie, that is where they lost all public morality and until out troops are back, there is no room to flirt with McCain. Thats the reason I am waiting for Hilary to say straight she would support Obama if he was the nominee. Obama and McCain have both answered unequivocally that all three are qualified, Clinton only seems to give that to McCain, a hint to her supporters to bolt if Obama is the nominee? Thats worrisome
She's worrisome. Anyone that obsessed with self that she's willing to stoop to the levels she has is very scary. If both Obama and Clinton are even on policy, then please vote for the one with the most integrity.
voting to fund the war is paralel to supporting the troops. Many of them were over there without proper euipment. Remember some family members were purchasing bullet proof vest and sending them over to their family members who were serving. Pretty sad. It wasn't like this administration would bring the troops home becouse funding was cut, he would leave them there with less.
Yes, the unmentionable would make sure the troops suffered and then blame the other party. Its like he remains a monster in everyway.
Voting for funding for the military operations in Iraq is not equivalent to endorsing the war. It's equivalent to supporting the troops by making sure they have what they need to stay as safe as possible, now that they are in harm's way. Clinton gave the nod to Bush without even reading the NIE report before voting to send American troops into harm's way. Obama opposed the war from the beginning. Not recognizing how and why that matters is akin to sticking your fingers in years and singing.."la, la, la, la, la, la, la....I can't hear you!"
Now her husband maintains that she was against the war before Obama was. These are just outright lies and distortions. She's never apologized for her vote.
Then perhaps you should review the lost of a Democrat majority in both houses during the Clintons first term extending up until 2006. Hillary is fond of reminding voters of the good ole days, but she purposedly fails to mention that it was under their watch, that we lost our solid, fillibuster-proof majority. There is little doubt that the republicans would be invigorated at the state and national level if the Clintons were at the top of the ticket.
I think you could have gone farther with your New Hampshire analogy. It was a compelling insight but not entirely supported in the piece. When we finally do the post-mortems on this campaign, the NH primary will get the analysis it deserves. Something happened there that we've lost sight of. Obama WAY ahead in the polls leading right up to election day - and then losing by 3% points. Were the polls really that wrong? Or was it something else? I'd like to see some genuine analysis around this, including actual interviews with voters who may have answered a pollsters questions one way and voted another. What triggered the conflict?
I think that what I am about to say should be pursued by (perhaps) you? if you are indeed CURIOUS??
I was told (by a reliable source) that a flier was circulated before the NH primary (by the Clinton campaign) with misinformation/distortion/lies about Obama's position on abortion-- MANY women changed their vote and that is why he lost in the final stretch....
Well, something happened in New Hampshire. And it wasn't Hillary crying.
I think I may have figured out why the "bitter" remarks aren't resonating among voters (as opposed to pundits).
It might be due to the illogical nature of why someone is well-liked.
"Why do you like him?" "I don't know-- he seems likeable."
"Why is he likeable?" "Well, a lot of people like him."
My Republican brother just joked with me via e-mail that he had to go because it was time for him to "cling to God and guns." With Gore, Kerry or Hillary Clinton, he wouldn't have been joking.
People seem to be seeing through the attacks made about these comments. They see it all as part of the political game. They don't dislike Obama so they give him the benefit of the doubt. Had Kerry said this, the fury would have been real because there was something about Kerry many people didn't like (though I like him).
Obama has established a reservoir of good will with the American people, so a he can afford a few gaffes. But not any more before next Tuesday please.
Just to be clear, when Carville referred to the 'Alabama' in the middle of Pennsylvania, he was not talking about Gettysburg. Gettysburg is in a far more sub/urbanized area, much too close to major metro areas.
You don't get to the 'Alabama' part until you cross the Susquehanna, going west. I should know - I live there. Try the same survey in Lewistown, Huntingdon, Altoona, Johnstown, Ebensburg (and those are just the 'big' ones you may have heard of). If you want to really get serious about it, try Mt. Union, Orbisonia, Petersburg, Portage, Cresson or 1000 other tiny little rural towns. Then you might hear something interesting.
No doubt
You got it Trubski--I'm a native born Gettysburger transplanted to DC and you are absolutely right about our state--it gets real interesting out there in Mt. Union.
True enough.
But Gettysburg is on the west side of the Susquehanna.
Doh! You're right, dunno what I was thinking there, but you know what I meant.
I really want to go there next Monday and be in the midst of all this. Being from Flint Michigan and now Olympia washington contrasts and feelin at home will be a part of my mixed emotions.
You must be logged in to comment. Log in or connect with
