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Reality Check: Why Opponents of Same-Sex Marriage May Want to Vote Against Prop. 8

Posted: 10/30/08 05:57 PM ET

People who support same-sex marriage should obviously vote No on Proposition 8, the proposed constitutional amendment on the November ballot that would eliminate marriage rights for same-sex couples. But there are a host of reasons why those who oppose same-sex marriage should still vote No on Prop 8:

(1) You're a Fiscal Conservative and the Economy is in the Toilet. People who have weddings spend a lot of money and the state treasury has estimated that the state stands to make millions from gay weddings. In addition, litigating the aftermath of Prop. 8, should it pass, will likely cost the state many millions more in legal fees.

(2) You're a Constitutional Conservative. You believe that we shouldn't muck up our constitution with initiative process amendments.

(3) Prop. 8 Won't Actually Stop Gay Marriage. The estimated 11,000 same-sex marriage licenses that have issued will not be invalidated and therefore those couples will remain married. The proposition has no retroactive effect and the State Attorney General has already gone on record with this position. Even going forward, same-sex couples can go to other jurisdictions (such as Massachusetts, Canada, and now Connecticut) to get legally married. They can even stay in California and have a rabbi or minister marry them. Sure, if Prop. 8 passes, those couples will be denied legal recognition, but they're still married and have every right to say so.

(4) You Believe in the Bill of Rights. The state (and federal) Bill of Rights, including privacy rights and equal protection, are expressly in place to prevent majority votes on minority rights. You might not like same-sex marriage, you might not even like gay people, but you can't help but think about who will be next. If put to a vote in the 1940s or 50s, the California Supreme Court decision sanctioning interracial marriage would have been overturned by popular vote. Would that make it right?

(5) You Believe in Religious Freedom. Your church or temple may not sanction gay marriages or homosexuality, but many other churches and temples do. Should the state be in the business of choosing which religious beliefs to honor and which to reject? Ultimately, state recognition of marriage is a civil matter, and regardless of what the state does, churches and temples can continue to refuse to marry same-sex couples. The misleading ads suggesting that churches' tax-exempt status is in jeopardy for refusing to marry same-sex couples is simply untrue.

(6) Prop. 8 Doesn't Protect Marriage. In fact, Prop. 8 may expedite the end of "traditional" marriage. If it passes, there will be years of litigation in state and federal courts on same-sex marriage. This will be expensive (see reason #1) and may ultimately lead to a decision under the U.S. Constitution holding all marriage bans in all states unconstitutional. The federal constitution also protects privacy, liberty and equal protection and even conservative judges have not looked kindly on majority votes taking away rights. The California Supreme Court itself -- to reconcile the demands of equal protection and Prop. 8 -- may well eliminate marriage for all Californians.

 
People who support same-sex marriage should obviously vote No on Proposition 8, the proposed constitutional amendment on the November ballot that would eliminate marriage rights for same-sex couples. ...
People who support same-sex marriage should obviously vote No on Proposition 8, the proposed constitutional amendment on the November ballot that would eliminate marriage rights for same-sex couples. ...
 
 
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09:47 PM on 10/31/2008
Thank you for this well-reasoned and clearly laid out set of arguments. I hope more people who haven't considered these issues will read your article.
Konnie
PO'd PROGRESSIVE
10:38 AM on 10/31/2008
ok - not on point and i know i am not the brightest crayon in the box, but.....why can't there be a third way?

I hereby resolve that since "marriage" is in fact a legally binding contract that AS SOON AS the county clerk signs your partnership license, you are contractually legally bound, as in "married'. no other action is required, no additional signatures needed:

at this point you can do the following:
follow up with a church/temple/mosque ceremony of your choice.
follow up with a civil ceremony of your choice
follow up with a party/reception/tree planting - whatever
follow up w/ going home, back to work, on vacation..............

since we supposedly have seperation of church and state here..........marriage as
instituted by God, would therefore be outside the pervue of the state...............and the
state is only required to recognize legal instruments.......end of problem....

or doesn't anyone really want to solve this wedge issue and just keep banging the
same damm drum?
11:09 AM on 10/31/2008
Thank you for this reasoned approach to voting Noon 8. Since this proposition signifies an utter lack of compassion for homosexuals, personal pleas, no matter how impassioned, fall on deaf ears. Perhaps appealing to their pocketbooks will have greater effect.
11:11 AM on 10/31/2008
It's a reasonable idea. But the Prop 8 people would never support it because it would grant gays the same rights as straight people.
10:37 AM on 10/31/2008
This is an excellent article - if only EVERYONE could read this before voting. Thank you for making these points in such a well-stated, non-threatening manner. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have about 7,000,000 million people to forward this to.
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maribelle1963
Welcome to the end of the world. Coffee or tea?
01:00 AM on 10/31/2008
Great reasoning, well argued.

I thank you on behalf of my 14 year old lesbian daughter who just came out and who is following this vote with rapt attention.
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Pearlswan
Born in Philly yet my heart's now in Frisco
03:12 AM on 10/31/2008
I ask myself over and over again, "Why did my son have to 'come out?' Why couldn't he just BE out like his heterosexual siblings?" Discrimination is the only answer I get. Fear of rejection. Our kids would not have to fret over their sexuality if they had role models of accepted gay married couples in the world they grow up in. So why can't a class of children celebrate their teacher's wedding just because its a gay wedding? No one would object if it were a heterosexual wedding. Who would object to a celebration of love and devotion? That is what we want our children to grow up and experience, isn't it? Gay kids need role models too. Gay kids need to experience acceptance by witnessing it being expressed toward others like them. Their own self-acceptance depends on it. Their emotional health depends on it. They ought not feel like they will be marginalized once they become sexually active adults. Let's care about ALL of our kids and vote NO on Prop 8. If these well-reasoned arguments can't convince you, then think of the gay kids who will commit suicide this year and vote pro-life to save their lives. They have parents who love them too.
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gaydm
Into the great wide open.
08:26 AM on 10/31/2008
part 2

I had no role model as to what a gay person should be like, I had no help,and or anyone I could safely turn to for answers. I had to figure it all out on my own. I made plenty of mistakes. I wish some I could 'do over" to get right. But I did survive those times and feel stronger for them.
It was not until I was diagnosed with AIDS in 1999, that I did the hardest thing in my life until then. I told my mom I was gay.
Turns out she loved me all the more for coming out to her. She still very much loves me now, and supports me and my 6 years partner I also found. We are a loving family, we wish you well. Thank you for those of you who also love and support your children who may be gay.
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gaydm
Into the great wide open.
08:25 AM on 10/31/2008
I am 52 years old, I became aware that I was different at the age of 3. I did not KNOW I was gay then, but I was aware that I may have been. I did try during my youth to fit in, I dated several very lovely and loving girls in my youth.
I did not even have sex until I was 20, and in the Navy. It was my first gay encounter,and it was then that all my true feelings came to fruition and I felt fully complete. That was when I KNEW I was gay. I have had sex since with women, only one of those encounters was I a willing participant. I do not dislike women, nor do I think the sex was in any way "icky", I was just that then and now NOT willing to have children. I have no desire to bring forth a child. I do not want to bring a NEW child here.
12:26 AM on 10/31/2008
All excellent points.
10:56 PM on 10/30/2008
Awesome, Jennifer! Thank you. It's nice to know that SOMEBODY believes in the Constitution!
10:30 PM on 10/30/2008
I hope this well written article is seen by many. I personally can't wrap my head around why so many people are threatened by a same sex marriage.
Is the opposition really that eager to give away their freedoms?
09:49 PM on 10/30/2008
** The California Supreme Court itself -- to reconcile the demands of equal protection and Prop. 8 -- may well eliminate marriage for all Californians. **

A point I've made many times.

If Californians are hateful enough to pass Prop 8, I surely hope it happens!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Romulus
08:35 PM on 10/30/2008
It seems that most posters and readers on HuffPo believe that gays and lesbians should have the right to marry. I wonder how you all feel about group marriages. If people have the right to marry the person they love regardless of gender, what if they love more than one person? Should people be allowed to marry as many other people as they wish? Personally, I think group marriages might be much more stable than one-on-one marriages.
10:02 PM on 10/30/2008
The extremist Mormons - who have fought SO hard for Prop 8 - no doubt agree with you.

It only applies to men, of course. Men can handle any number of wives. A woman, on the other hand, is fortunate to be able to handle ONE husband. Even a shared one. Ya know - gotta devote your life to your babies.
09:25 AM on 10/31/2008
Actually the issue of polygamy is supposedly a major factor in the Mormon support for Prop 8. I don't fully understand why, but that's what I've heard.

Personally, even polygamy isn't a threat to my marriage.
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maribelle1963
Welcome to the end of the world. Coffee or tea?
01:08 AM on 10/31/2008
"Group marriage" is part of our ancient past, an idea whose time has come and long gone for many practical reasons of inequality, inequity and opportunities for abuse (see FLDS for current examples.)

The question is two fold; what is fair and what benefits/enhances society. Allowing consenting adults to join together in marriage is a no-brainer, win-win for societal stability, the raising of children (the vast majority of gay people I know have kids) and long-term human happiness and connectedness.

Moreover, no straight marriages will be harmed in any way by allowing gays to marry as well.

I live in CT, where my husband and I celebrate that our marriage is now enhanced by no longer being an instutition that is denied to our gay friends, our 14 year old gay daughter and our lesbian minister.
07:54 PM on 10/30/2008
Gay marriage does not affect heterosexual marriage in any way, shape or form. My hetero marriage is not threatened in any way. Yours is not either. My wife and I love each other the same. It is not any less sacred in the eyes of the law or god.

This is a serious civil rights issue. It is dangerous to amend State constitutions with racist agendas. I agree with poster Grada3784... who's next? Mormon's? Jew's? Muslim's?

This is 2008 people. Get over it.
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Grada3784
God is a Parent, not an abuser.
07:08 PM on 10/30/2008
Against 8:

Successful legislation against any minority voted by the majority of voters will set a precedent for voter initiatives against other minorities. Anti-Mormon legislation, any one? Anti-Catholic? Anti-black?

There was a Catholic saint who said that more tears were shed over answered prayers than unanswered. And believe me, she knew what she was talking about.
06:56 PM on 10/30/2008
(1) There is something that money can't buy
(2) Prop 8 correctly interprete Constitution set by our founding father
(3) Prop 8 stated marriage only between a man and a woman. Period.
(4) Sex orientation is not right but a life-style, same-sex marriage cannot be equated to interracial marriage
(5) Marriage is a civil issue and also a moral issue
(6) Prop 8 strengthen marriage between a man and woman
07:17 PM on 10/30/2008
Who exactly do you think you are, trying to impose your religion and "morals" on everyone else.

To me it's a simple civil rights issue. Straight people have the right to get married and gay people deserve that same right. As far as I'm concerned anyone who wants to deny the rights of people who are different is a bigot. And frankly, most of the arguments against gay marriage are just a rehash of the arguments to deny the rights of women or blacks (yeah, I know. "But this is different!!").

I donated to those opposing Prop 8 just today, partly because I was inspired by posts from people like you.
09:28 PM on 10/30/2008
I, too, donated to the anti-Prop 8 cause, and for similar reasons.

I had the good fortune of being married for more than 42 years to a wonderful husband, until he died of cancer. Both of us had the pleasure of celebrating our niece's marriage to her partner of 10 years. They now are now the proud parents of a much-loved adopted child.

How could denying happiness to this wonderful family in any way take away from the sanctity of my own marriage? The very thought is ridiculous. Our marriage was a good one because of our deep love for each other.

All couples who love each other deserve the chance to have loving marriages of their own. It is love, caring and commitment that lend sanctity to marriage - not religious bigotry.
08:37 PM on 10/30/2008
Let's look at the arguments:

(1) There is something that money can't buy-What are you talking about?

(2) Prop 8 correctly interprete Constitution set by our founding father-If this was the case, then there would be no need for Prop 8.

(3) Prop 8 stated marriage only between a man and a woman. Period.-The correct language is "Prop 8 States" not "stated" (sic)

(4) Sex orientation is not right but a life-style, same-sex marriage cannot be equated to interracial marriage-So does this mean anybody can chose to be gay? What about you?

(5) Marriage is a civil issue and also a moral issue-Marriage is a religious issue, not a civil or moral issue. That is why we have "civil unions"

(6) Prop 8 strengthen marriage between a man and woman-With a divorce rate of over 50%, how does Prop 8 strengthen marriage?

I'm sure this is a religious issue for you, but remember what the bible says:

"Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters ... Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls ... Each of us will give an account of himself to God. Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another ... Whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God."
-Excerpts from Romans 14:1, 4, 12-13, 22