Generation Y: In Hard Times, Who Wants Slacker Employees? Management Guru Bruce Tulgan Says: We Do -- If We Guide Them
Bruce Tulgan published his first book about young people in the workplace when he was 27 and arguing on behalf of his own generation. After fifteen years of working with business leaders in companies ranging from Aetna to Wal-Mart, he felt this was the right time to present business leaders, managers, and other grown-ups with a reality check about "Generation Y" employees (those born 1978 and later). And so, at 42, he has assessed the new generation of young workers.
I have rarely resisted a book more. Not because of the book, which is lively and wise and provocative, but because of the attitudes that Tulgan attributes to this generation. I loathed these kids, even though I felt like some descendant of Spiro Agnew ranting against hippies. Bruce knew all about that position --- and why I had it. So when we got together to discuss his book, he not only had a smart answer for every question, he had a trenchant analysis of his interrogator. And, perhaps, you as well.
Jesse Kornbluth: Reading this book now, with unemployment rising and rising, I kept thinking: Bruce wrote this book in a different world. The book is an artifact of a time forever past. For example, you write, "You're not the only one selecting. The employee is selecting you too." That's so 2007 to me.
Bruce Tulgan: Sorry, but it's still true. Ask anyone in health care --- the demand for skilled talent still outpaces supply in certain industries. There will be many casualties ahead, many young kids can't get hired, but competition for the best people will always be fierce. Remember, the title of my book is Not Everyone Gets a Trophy --- not" 'cater to the young upstarts.' My message is about giving a wake-up call to the young upstarts. The terrible economy may be just the opportunity managers need in order to make it stick.
JK: You write about the kid who says, "Surfing is really important to me. If the waves are big, I might not come in." Isn't the right response: "Great. Here's the rest of your life to go surfing. See ya..."
BT: If this young person is the best person for the job -- besides being really annoying -- then the right thing for the hiring manager to do is to use the surfing as a quid pro quo. GenYers are very transactional in their thinking. Their parents have been negotiating with them since they were very young with small incremental rewards. Use that to your advantage. Trade the surfing with this young person in exchange for getting tons of work done very well, very fast all day long when he's not surfing.
JK: Yes, but. In 2009 reality, if I didn't have a job, I wouldn't feel that choosy. Why do these kids think they're so valuable?
BT: Well, they may find out they can't be so choosy in this economy. Still, there's a paradox here --- in an environment of uncertainty and rapid change, the playing field is leveled. Long-term payoff no longer is the game. And these kids are smart in a new way. They have more information at their fingertips than any generation in history. They've never been in an environment in which they couldn't find the answer fast. And they are willing to do tons of grunt work very well very fast --- as long as they know somebody is keeping track.
JK: Still, there's a protocol in organizations, and it starts with an appreciation for the hierarchy and the elders. Who told these kids that the rules didn't apply?
BT: Throughout the '60s, '70s and '80s, there was a lot of research about childhood self-esteem. And then came a shift from parents being groovy to kids being over-parented. In the '90s, every kid was a winner at something --- every kid got a trophy just for showing up.
JK: This also makes me want to puke. But you say it like it's a neutral fact.
BT: I'm not in the "good news, bad news" business. I'm just describing the way it is. My personal view: The self-esteem experts are wrong in many respects. They argue that because this generation of kids has been raised this way, we must continue to praise them and find things for them to do that they like. I argue the exact opposite in my book. I believe that most of the experts have it all wrong. And that's the reason companies hire me: I come in and say, 'The way to deal with unrealistic expectations is to help show the young upstarts what expectations are realistic. Make the quid pro quo explicit every step of the way.'
JK: Do you say this when kids are in the room?
BT: Yes. And they love it.
JK: Why? Aren't you saying: The party's over?
BT: No. I say: drive a hard bargain. Make expectations clear. Set them up for success. Help them earn more of what they need and want. But hold them accountable every step of the way. Don't tell them they are winners when they are not. But help them win, for real. I'm telling their bosses to say, "You don't want to work on Thursday? Then here's what I need by midnight on Wednesday."
JK: If you made these deals, I'm betting that the manager's inbox will be empty at midnight on Wednesday.
BT: Then hold that person accountable. If you take the time to try to teach them how to succeed, acknowledging the transactional relationship, and then shine the bright light of scrutiny on their performance, it is much easier to hold that person accountable when he fails to perform. After the first empty inbox, maybe you take away the surfing. After your inbox is empty a second time, you might have a difficult conversation. After the third time, maybe it's time to take away the paycheck. But first you have to put in the time up front to try to really try to teach that person how to meet expectations. You have to put in the time to teach that person how to succeed.
JK: That goes against the grain for me. You write about the kid who says, "Surfing is really important to me. If the waves are big, I might not come in." And I think the right response is: "Great. Here's the rest of your life to go surfing. See ya..."
BT: You have to hire someone to do the work. If you send the surfer off to surf, then you'll probably just get another high maintenance young applicant in his place. But remember many young people in this labor market still have plenty of negotiating power. The more schooling you need to do a job, the more leverage the kid has with the employer.
JK: This is a first for me --- I'm taking the side of Management.
BT: You're not. You're taking the side of grownups. But I also say: If you do the transactional math, it may be better to let a high performing upstart take Thursday off and bring his dog to work if that means you get better work out of him. You have to negotiate every step of the way.
JK: But what about: If you give a mouse a cookie...?
BT: It does seem poor taste that Gen Y-ers think of employment relationships as so short-term and transactional, but I teach managers to use that attitude to get more and better work out of every person.
JK: As a boomer, I find this hard to swallow. I feel I should call their parents.
BT: But their parents are likely to be calling you! In our interviews, I hear stories every day about parents calling the boss. At a public safety conference a fire chief told me this story about a young man who became a fireman. After a few weeks his mother called to say he had been working the night shift and he had a hard time sleeping during the day and so he was exhausted all the time. The fire chief snapped, "Ma'am, your son is a fireman" --- and hung up.
JK: If you had to choose between hiring/firing a 23-year-old Gen Y-er who thought he/she was the greatest thing since sliced bread and a 45-year-old who has a family to support and is infinitely grateful for the job, who would you choose?
BT: You need more information to do the business math. All things being equal, maybe you hire the grown-up. But you need more information to know who you really want to hire. I remind employers: Gen Y-ers walk around with a flashing neon sign on their forehead saying "I'm a special case."
JK: And I, of course, think that sign should be on their back: "Kick me hard."
BT: Baby boomers had this attitude too. But they kept it to themselves when they were young. They kept their heads down and mouths shut. But they tell me every day in our interviews, "Hey I want flexibility too. I want a lot of the things that these kids are demanding... and I've been here for thirty years!" Everyone's a special case. It's just that some people are better at hiding it than others. Today's young workers are just really unaware that they seem like such squeaky wheels.
[cross-posted from HeadButler.com]
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One of the things NOT being discussed, at all, is that our culture has changed.
Born in 1975, I am single, live alone, and am soley responsible for the running of my own life... but I'm not alone in that situation... there are many of us living this new lifestyle. There are doctor's visits, an electric bill that I need to argue over, a car that needs the breaks fixed and a house which needs repairs. All of that is pretty tricky when you work 9-5, Monday through Friday.
The model doesn't fit the new generation, anymore. We're not living in the same world our parent's lived in.
I don't want to hear about a retirement plan any more than I want to hear about magic dust that will make all my dreams come true. I want to know that I can have a flexible schedule so that I can take care the personal business side of MY life - all while trying to scrape the money together to pay the bills, each month.
If all Gen-Yers are slackers, then all Baby Boomers are stuck in a yester-year due to the stick lodged up their arses.
See my point?
"It does seem poor taste that Gen Y-ers think of employment relationships as so short-term and transactional, but I teach managers to use that attitude to get more and better work out of every person."
Here we go again with the labels. The described mindset is an observed phenomenon of a particular generation, but it is more a result of evolution and market emergence of evolved thought coupled with timing, than it is an attack on the idea of loyalty and commitment to hard work based on residence within a demographic group.
You can be sitting in your office, at your cubicle or station on any given day, and a disloyal employer can come up and tap your shoulder and change the trajectory of your financial journey, even if you are performing well, following all of the rules, doing what is expected...going beyond the call. Companies outsource, reduce force and staffing levels, and/or downsize at the whim and expense of thousands upon thousands of individuals lives all the time. Forgive me if I have deaf ears where it concerns crying about lack of loyalty to a company. Loyalty must be a two way street or let there be no expectation at all. Motivation and productivity is tied to stimulation and so is boredom and lethargy. It is hard to hug with your arms folded in defiance as corporate boss, master, and rigid opponent to be feared. No hug, no work!
Very well said! Bravo.
Amen!
I' ve been working for over half of my life, now, and the thing that I am STILL unable to swallow is that it seems as though the employer holds all the cards. I'm not asking for days off to go surfing. I'm not asking to bring my dogs into work, but I am asking for a little consideration when a medical problem comes up which needs to be closely monitored by my physician, so I need a bit more flexibility to make those appointments.
Instead, the attitude I get from my employer is that this is a hassle they don't need. It doesn't matter that, in six months time, I've found ways to save the company double my yearly salary - my health issues are an inconvenience to them, so I can pretty much go to h#ll.
An equal playing field would not only be very nice, it would seem... I don't know... FAIR?
right on... the only loyalty is management's loyalty to their buddies...
I notice that the managers and their buddies always seem to have worked together at some previous employer.
The funniest excuse I have ever heard for not coming into work was from a 22 year old employee of ours " I can't find my underwear." I LMAO over that, needless to say he doesn't work for us anymore.
"A Message to Garcia" By Elbert Hubbard should be required reading for all of them prior to entering the workforce.
It's pretty simple, actually. It's the same in every generation! Your parents said the same things about you as you are saying about these kids. And their parents said the same about them. And so on. If you like you can go back and read it in 2000 year old Roman texts. The kids were never as good as their parents.
What can I say? "Yawn" comes to mind.
absolutely... same old thing... they're lazy, I'm awesome... blah blah.
Parents of kids in final years at school or of students calling teachers - silly enough. But parents of Gen Y ers calling the kid's boss at the workplace?
lmao
I'm beginning to think there may be some good things about this recession.
I worked with some pretty good engineers - younger than me - and they always tried to combine what they liked to do with what they had to do. For example one engineer liked to surf, so he would take his customer with him to go surfing. It helped him close the deal. The work got done and the surfing was enjoyed. He had a habit of disappearing over to the airport to work on his plane if no one kept after him so there was some extra follow up required with that one.
To be honest with you, this is Labor treating CEOs with the same attitude that the CEOs have been getting away with for years. CEOs hire you and act like you should worship them as gods and grovel at their feet for the honor of giving you a job-- they demand loyalty and respect and all your hours and even after you give them all that and more, they put you in the first round of job cuts to save money for the Boss. If you need time off for your family, you're a "slacker" and miss the next round of promotions... and so on.
Now the younger generation feels like "your business is going nowehere without people like me/us... so you better thank us and grovel at our feet for working your damn crummy job". Quite frankly, the CEOs are getting a taste of their own medecine, and I'm all for it.
Beyond that, a big difference is that Gen-Yers are a LOT less likely to put work first -- and view anyone who does put work ahead of family, friends, and other personal issues as suspect, at best. If you aren't willing to cut out of work early for a kids baseball game, what kind of boss will you be? They'd much rather take jobs where their employers share their points of view about flexibility and quality family time. Sure, the Boomer bosses will sneer at them and go out of their way not to hire them . . . but those same "kids" are the ones doing the heavy lifting when it comes to a lot of industries. Reminds me of a story I heard recently about two teams assigned the same data management project in competition, one mostly Boomer, the other mostly GenX/Y. The Boomer spent a week hacking together the organization, putting together the schedule of work, detailing the scope of the job, and planning on review meetings and budgets for a six-month projected deliverable. At the end of the first week the Boomer team smugly reports on their project at the team meeting. Then the Gen X/Y team gets up and said that it was just too much hassle to deal with all that organizational stuff, so they just stayed up all night, ordered pizza, and hacked the thing out so they could leave early on Friday.
Which team would you hire?
I don't think I'd want to fly a plane that was "hacked out" so they could leave early on Friday.
I probably wouldn't want my corporate data dependent on a system that was "hacked out" so they could leave early on Friday either.
Sounds like "Ready! Fire! Aim!" to me.
the Gen X/Yers.
the boomers like to hear themselves talk... and they have so many meetings to discuss the same things over and over again, and they don't even seem to make many decisions... they're just chat sessions.
I love a meeting where we bring up a topic, everyone with any ideas speaks up, then we all decide what the decision is...
This is an interesting take on an important segment of the workforce. It also points out how short-sighted Boomers are in the workplace. Placing more importance on a willingness to conform than on work product is a hallmark of Boomer-oriented management -- that, acute technophobia, and a perverse fetish for unecessary meetings. The fact is, these "kids" can do the work quicker, more efficiently, and with less drama than their Boomer parents. They want more flexible time, not necessarily more money, a more casual work environment, and they don't give a crap about their job title. Harness their talents and give them a place to run and they'll achieve like mad -- try to mold them into a Boomer-designed box and they'll split at the first sign of trouble for greener pastures. They continuously train themselves, they don't whine about parking spaces or senority, and they no up front that there is no such thing as job security.
And those who think this idea is absurd? Enjoy the unemployment line.
Sorry Sic, I'm 54. My hubby is 59 in our workplaces we both have YET to find ANYBODY younger than us who do the work quicker, more efficiently and will less drama. We've found it be the exact opposite. We've always said "if they'd just stop complaining and make excuses about WHY they don't want to, or can't do it they'd already be done."
The trouble starts from the top and rolls down hill, my friend.
If you have this repeated problem in finding good help, the common denominator is.... YOU.
I say the same thing about the baby boomers!
that's true, I've never cared for titles or parking spaces... show me the money or give me some other reward, time off is great!...
I'm not sure if there is anything worse than someone insisting on doing something that has no value, just because they like to or they "always did that"...
You want someone with a great work ethic, who's willing to take responsibility, who's willing to work long or late shifts?
Hire a veteran.
But veterans expect benefits and job security, two things in short supply these days. The Gen-Y kids are willing to work contract work, find creative ways to simplify workflow with new technology, and they don't expect to be in that same job for longer than a year or so. They're perfectly willing to take responsibility -- as long as they also can take the credit.
I don't see that lasting.
Hopping jobs every year or so is fine when you're young and single but the Gen-Y kids will likely grow up, get married and start looking for some stability.
Never seen a kid take any responsibility for anything. I've often remarked these youngsters are a lost cause.
and they get their healthcare, how? This is the next big issue. We need affordable healthcare NOT from a job.
Friction between generations is nothing new. But, young people aren’t going anywhere, especially in the workforce. In fact, due to the forward movement of time, the proportion of people younger than you in the workforce will amazingly continue to increase forever! Characterization of an entire generation is difficult, much like the characterization of any large group—especially one with such ill-defined boundaries. (The previous incensed poster recognizes the overlap between Gen Y and “her generation” before going on to lambaste them). Self-absorption and selfishness are not unique to “Gen Y”. And even if there is a general change in attitudes among young adults; can you really place the blame entirely at their feet for trends you see as negative? They were raised by parents, educated by teachers, governed by politicians, entertained by artists, informed by media, and trained by employers who all belonged to previous generations. Each generation is in part a reflection of the choices made by those who came before. You may want to reserve some “swift kicks” for them (and yourself) if you don’t like what you see.
well said.
being born in 1978, I'm apparently a Gen Yer... I think what this author is talking about only applies to about 5% of Gen Yers...
there always seems to be people in every generation that complain about the younger generations...
though I do see business relationships as transactional... why put out the effort if you're not getting anything in return?... if I put out the effort I should be rewarded, and sometimes a reward is a sincere "thanks for you hard work, we really helped out."
As a Baby Boomer/Gen X-er and career changer, I pretty much have the same attitude you do about business relationships - yes, they are transactional and if you put out the effort, yes, you should be rewarded (preferably by the amount in your paycheck), BUT ... you don't automatically deserve a raise for showing up every day.
The biggest complaint I've had about Gen Yers on the job is that they're a little to attached to their cell phones. Texting is NEVER appropriate when you're working with a client or taking an interview. And rolling one's eyes and exhaling loudly when being asked to actually DO one's job (why am I asking ... you should know what you're supposed to do without my telling you!) is just not cool either.
OMG Elle1019 they ARE addicted to their cell phones, not just a little too attached!
AND they can't think for themselves either. You have to spell EVERYTHING out for them. You have to be very careful HOW you word things because they can't fill in the blanks at all. It's like trying to teach a VERY VERY small child anything.
When we asked our resident Gen Yer to get off a personal call and help us in the office she told us "I HAVE to be on the call!!!! I HAVE personal PROBLEMS!!!"
Her next personal problem was finding a new job.
I think the Gen Yers you are thinking about are a minority or maybe in your region/line of work they are the majority... I work with a wide array of Gen Yers and I only notice that kind of behaivor from the rich kids.
First off i feel this is a gross oversimplification and exaggeration of Gen-Y. I don't know anyone who would say "if the waves are big i might not come in that day" but I'm from the east coast so maybe that's west coast mentality. I understand why Gen-Y doesn't view every single job as the 30 year investment the older generations did. The older generations worked for the same company for 30-40 years got a pension and a pat on the back "good on ya mate you've worked hard for years for us here is a going away present" now all you get for years of working for the same company is a kick in the arse and a "sorry we had to make cuts" If management does not work for their employees why should we work so hard for them? I am aware that everyone needs a job but if the compensation is not good I am going to find a different job.
Also Gen-Y aren't as tied down as Mr 40 something would be. Gen-Y are going to be the ones that will relocate at the drop of a hat, work late because they don't have a little league game to go to after work etc etc. And like it or not everyone wants to target that 18-35 demographic and no one knows Gen-Y better then Gen-Y
This entire premise is unreal. Are you kidding me?
I am Gen Xer, born toward the end of that generation. So, probably my upbringing and the Gen Y way of thinking overlaps a bit.
I think they should have a big, quick, swift kick on the proverbial pants applied heavily and often.
They think they're "special"? In what universe?
I'm sure there are a lot of unemployed people with families more than willing to take their place. Tell those Gen Yers to go surfing - right off a cliff.
This whole idea is absurd
Ps I'm not reading this book
As an older member of Gen Y (based on a 1978 start date--I was born in 1982) I have to disagree somewhat with you and the two gentlemen in the article. I feel that people my age don't think they're special and deserve special treatment, we simply don't look at a job the same way our elders do.
I have no data to back up my claims, but I get the feeling many people of my generation were the first in their family to go to college. We were encouraged by our parents who hadn't gone, and were told that college was the key to getting a job that we didn't despise getting up for every morning. As a former co-worker of mine who was about 10 years my senior but would make a great Gen Y'er had said: I work to live, not live to work.
Combine that attitude with our computer literacy and many older people are going to think we're slackers. I'm sure some are, but if we can do in five or six hours what older people can do in eight simply because of our greater familiarity with a PC, are we not entitled to a quid pro quo kind of employee-employer relationship?
I'd like to go on about this because it's something that has always bugged me but, alas, I'm at work!
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