My First Anti-Gay Marriage Rally
I was very inspired by the videos of the crowds at the Palin Rallies. I thought I would go to a pro Prop 8 rally (with camera) to see if I could capture some golden hateful nuggets of sound bite. I didn't want to appear confrontational, so I looked in my closet for something that would look semi-conservative Christian. I didn't pick out my "I heart Rachel Maddow" t-shirt. Anyway, I have to say, at first, I was a bit disappointed. Most of the folks seemed polite, thoughtful, and not at all inbred. They sincerely believed that somehow gay marriage was going to destroy the family... and teach the wearing of ass-less chaps on a gay pride float to 1st graders. They all said they had gay friends -- a la Sarah Palin. They all "love the sinner." And to be honest, I believe them. They were not horrible people. In fact, they were very sweet. And that's what makes them a little scarier.
My talented friend Katherine Butler held the camera (I have shaky hands) and interviewed. Kendall Rhodes edited.
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My biggest problem with Bible thumpers is that they pick and choose the parts of the Bible that up hold their argument. It is called The Word of God. Not the words of God. If your going to use it as the basis for your belief you need to use the whole thing, not just the parts that you agree with.
I'm curious, does that include the laws that prescribe stonings, that codify and sanction slavery, that define women as the property of their husbands, etc.?
Are you suggesting that we, like the Islamic states, adopt the Jewish version of Sharia Law? That we have rabbis and priests interpreting how to execute the laws found in the Bible? Who selects them? Who corrects them if they err?
Are you sure you want to go there?
Wouldn't that make our democracy into a theocracy? Have you considered converting to Judaism, maybe even moving to Israel or at least joining an ultra-orthodox community?
Do you know the penalty for someone who so much as picks up sticks for kindling on the Sabbath? Stoning to death. The penalty for adultery for the woman? Stoning to death.
Do you think the Bible is printed via downlink from Heaven, no earthly interference all the way to the bookstore? Do you know how the King James version got that name? Do you know of the religious wars that plagued Europe for centuries?
Should we blindly apply words on paper, never questioning how they got there?
I'm not sure you've entirely thought through this suggestion.
If Prop 8 passes, would the application of the 14th Ammendment make all marriages illegal? It should.
I have been getting a lot of robocalls in support of Prop. 8. These people are courteous and sincere. I suggest going to the polls and voting. If Prop. 8 wins, I hope those opposed to it try to overthrow it with a proposition of their own next election cycle. The populace is coming around on this issue, but it might take a few more years to pass a vote, if it fails this time.
These religious kooks. Just like Elizabeth Hasselbeck, they can't think for themselves, need a damn book to tell them how everyone on earth should live their lives.
With all the horribleness going on in the world today, the goal should be that everyone is entitled to love. Who cares if it's with someone of their own sex? As long as it's not a child, an animal or a corpse, let people love who they want. These people are more interested in spreading hate and superiority than love.
i totally agree and i gotta say that marriage is a right that everyone should have regardless of their sexual orientation. its a personnal freedom and right that no one should be deprived from. ppl intervene in other ppls lives. logically and naturally prop 8 shouldnt exisit. i mean if two homosexuals got married how will it effect other ppls lives its their life. if they were happy will it kill ya. ok so some ppl believe religion prevents it your not god to punish them and dont force ur believes on other ppl. let them do what they want and its between them and god. only god judge us all not society. i think prop 8 is stupid and whoever support it is a closed minded judgemental person. live and let ppl live. put ur self in other ppls shoes before u judge them.
Nice of the cute guy to recognize bisexuality. (Oh, and because I think he's attractive doesn't mean I'm going to flirt, hit on him, make a pass, ask him out, ask if he knows where all the good public bathrooms are, et cetera.)
The problem with his bi point is that if you tell people you're bisexual, you get slammed with every stereotype fathomed by both hetero- and homo-sexual factions. On top of the one where bis are incapable of practicing monogamy... or the woman otherwise likes a guy but finds out he's bi and starts thinking things even I wouldn't do, which is quite a lot...
And, worst of all, a relationship means you have no secrets. Hide this part of your life and it gets worse down the road. Which is why some bis say they're straight. Because they made the choice to date women only.
I'm just sick of the damn stereotypes. I'll listen to them, but it's sad so many people won't listen to me and others like me who acknowledge for whom they are attracted yet won't go try to chase them into a bed or glory hole. :rolleyes:
VOTE NO ON H8!!!
I 3> the guy who says he loves his kids, he loves his pet he loves a lot of things, you can love without marriage...so why did he marry the mother of his kids?
Sure you can love without marriage, but you can't collect social security benefits from your partner when they die, you can't take off time from work to take care of your sick partner, you can't file joint taxes, you can't get joint custody of a child in the event of a seperation, along with the other 1000 benefits afforded to married couples...
oh but you can spend hundreds of dollars getting extra legal paperwork drawn up to try to protect your assets, only for the possibility it could be overturned by an angry/disapproving family member.
You can get a domestic partnership that will tax you additionally if you add your partner onto your plan. You will be taxed at the fair market value of the health care package.
does this lady realize how hard Women and African-Americans had to fight for their rights?
now she wants to vote to take away someone else's rights?
If you are NOT African American - all I ask is for people to stop comparing African American struggles to gay rights. That is all I ask!
I see very little difference in the struggles of any minority where hatred and ignorance are the groundwork for oppression.
Perhaps if African Americans finally realized their own worth and beauty, some in the community wouldn't search as hard for someone else to hate, to make themselves feel good about being born.
Change comes from within, where we are all free.
Hatred comes from a much darker place where love does not exist, nor the ability to reach out all across the spectrum of Humanity, and realize we are all One, with no exceptions.
Your struggle is mine. Mine is yours. Together....... we can move mountains.
Why? Do civil rights issues just end at the color of your skin? A civil rights issue, is a civil rights issue regardless of whether you are African American, or like me, just an American.
We are all HUMAN. We are talking about civil-rights for HUMANS. Comparing this struggle for civil rights to the historical struggle by African Americans and Women is certainly appropriate. The argument for slavery 200 years ago stated that those who were taken as slaves were less than human. The same argument kept women as second class citizens. We are all Human and Equal. WAKE UP!
Besides the contractual obligations, marriage is an antiquated social construct. That being said the only reason I care about gay marriage is because I am against discrimination.
What other contract that the government has control over has preconditions of gender?
Religious institutions should have the right to say who they will or will not marry. But if they choose to discriminate their tax exempt status should be revoked (even though it should be anyway).
We are all humans and equal as TurnLeft says but, not all struggles are the same. You cannot hide or deny that you are a woman or and African American. You can reference one struggle when facing another but do not just say that they are equal. Especially if you are not part of either struggle. I am not going to say gay people choose to be gay. Even though I believe in choosing who you love, love should be a conscious decision not something that happens to you.
So the government should have no say as to what two adults can enter into what binding contract. Other than that, why would anyone even want to get married, it is unnatural and expensive.
Every gay man and lesbian woman is a part of somebody's family that loves, honors and respects the way God has created them.
The only people tearing families apart are the misinformed who believe the Bible gives them the right to hate. It's not what Jesus said, but that gem still awaits them, apparently.
These people are terrorists in every possible way the word can be tossed, mutilated or imagined. Judgemental? Without a doubt.
Perhaps most importantly, the Old Testament does not belong to self professed 'Christians'; never did, and it never will. Then again, a little information on the Torah would provide them with one of the most compellling reasons for education. The Torah condemns ignorance.
In that regard, it would seem they've condemned themselves, one and all, and are the most in need of some Divine guidance before it's all too late. Or they come out of the closet themselves. Or men and women who find themselves unloved and unwanted and choose to hate, rather than correct themselves, are the ones who should be prayed for most of all.
The Bible was speaking to male prostitutes. Everybody knows that, but the inhuman.
One other point. The wording of most of these amendments demands that one woman and one man can be married. The wording leaves no wiggle room for divorce, meaning all divorces in any state that's enacted these unconstitutional bans on gay marriage are invalid.
When we see the gay community and all other Peoples of Conscience actually stand up and demand the law be applied as it is written (barring they're not struck down first), using the law and the inherent intelligence possessed, it should take no time at all to have these amendments erased from the books, never to be thrown at Humans and the Human Condition, again.
One man, one woman=NO DIVORCE for any reason at anytime.
Anyone interested in pursuing this simple logic?
One other point. The wording of most of these amendments demands that one woman and one man can be married. The wording leaves no wiggle room for divorce, meaning all divorces in any state that's enacted these unconstitutional bans on gay marriage are invalid.
When we see the gay community and all other Peoples of Conscience actually stand up and demand the law be applied as it is written (barring they're not struck down first), using the law and the inherent intelligence possessed, it should take no time at all to have these amendments erased from the books, never to be thrown at Humans and the Human Condition, again.
One man, one woman=NO DIVORCE for any reason at anytime.
Anyone interested in pursuing this simple logic?
I do wish to thank you JohnnyKay, for your kind words in response to my earlier post. I also would like to take you up on your question raised here.One man,one woman = No divorce. It is sort of correct.
If you use Florida's amendment 2 as an example, and I quote "Inasmuch as marriage is the legal union of only one man and one woman as husband and wife, no other legal union that is treated as marriage or the substantial equivalent thereof shall be valid or recognized."
Florida's amendment, if passed, clearly would make same sex marriage invalid, but it will also render ALL but one marriage valid for the entire state. The part that says ONLY one man and one woman, clearly does not allow multiple copies.
The second part "no other legal union" would make sure that only 1 marriage would be valid, and no other form that in any way comes close to one man and one woman in an legal union would be recognized.
So it seems that Florida would be on the verge of invalidating all marriages forever. I can not wait for the chaos that will ensue when the very foundations of legal ownership comes into play. Not to mention that California's Supreme Court ruled that gays have the right to equal treatment. So take away our right, and say goodbye to your right,tomarry who you wish.
Hope that clears things up a bit.
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Wasting lives, time and money to wring one's hands and decry oppression without the recquisite legal avenues being explored makes me wonder just how serious true adherents to the freedoms outlined in our Constitution really are, that the apparent easiest route hasn't been considered anywhere across the country? To me, it's as ridiculous as Log Cabin Republicans pretending they've made a difference in their own hypocritical stances regarding a fallen party with no interest in the Human Condition whatsoever. Jews didn't join the Nazis, rape survivors don't invite their rapists to their homes later, and common sense might be used once in awhile, rather than seek headlines over proactive resolution.
I had to break this up, so Part Two
No matter whom we are in this world, no matter the lifestyle, race, gender or persuasion, we all have codes of conduct we must live by. Doing no harm to others is perhaps the most important. But when we have harmed others or ourselves, we have to atone to our victims by making them whole, or as whole as possible before we harmed them.
It seems you've healed yourself through the act of forgiveness for others. I hope you stay strong and forgiving, as well as my earlier sentiments.
(had to break up my reply, so Part One)
I was touched by the power of the beauty of your statement earlier. I still am. The gentleness and forgiveness for your persecutors marks you as one who actually understands the Christ Consciousness available to all, no matter the religion or lack of it: Selfless Love.
I'm perplexed when I consider the facts you've elaborated, as aware as I am that not one thoughtful gay or lesbian, straight or bisexual attorney in any of the states facing such hypocritical onslaughts by the religious right wrong about so much, has yet to initiate any injunction or other legal device that would present these arguments to the appropriate court, up to and including each state's Supreme Court, all the way up the ladder?
Sorry about that, trying to break uo a long reply doesn't always work out well here.
At any rate, the end of my thoughts appears first, tyhe beginning, second.
I suppose I should wish you luck piecing it together.
LOL
It's incredibly disheartening to see people that think they should have the right to legally force their religious beliefs on other Americans. It shouldn't matter what it says in Leviticus. We live in a secular country and marriage is a civil institution. To argue that couples should have their civil rights taken away from them because of what it says in the Bible is totally un-American. If it was up to these people we'd all live in a fundamentalist state.
Excellent points!
Every time a right-wing Christian tries to use an Old Testament reference in support of their bigoted and/or hateful arguments I ask for a NEW Testament reference -- something that Jesus was supposed to have said -- that substantiates the hate they're spewing.
To date, NOT ONE has been able to show me a Bible verse where Jesus himself is credited with ANY statement to support any idea that subjugates, discriminates or diminishes another human being. Conversely, he IS credited with saying we should all love one another, that what one does to the lowest they do to Him.
If one really IS a Christian, then Jesus' teachings trump Moses' and any other Old Testament prophet, king or writer. Period. And before anyone uses the "I have not come to destroy The Law, but to fulfill it" argument... the "Law" meant the 10 Commandments, folks.
Jesus didn't say we should hate, demean, disrespect, shun or otherwise treat someone under the law differently than their neighbours -- His message was one of inclusion, NOT intolerance.
All moot points, however. Laws should be based on SECULAR concerns, NOT religious ones. Defining marriage as solely between a man and a woman is based on religious beliefs and does not belong as part of our legal system.
Yes you are absolutely right, Jesus never showed hate. That does not mean He approved of a do anything you like with your personnel life agenda. When the mass’s wanted to stone the women for her “lifestyle” he stopped it out of His love and mercy, and had some fun with the religious leaders in the process by telling them “Ye without sin cast the first stone.” He then told her “Go and sin no more.” He did not say “Its your body its you personnel life do with it as you please.”
Wow! The description of the video is a lot more favorable than the video itself. I really wish that people would understand that we are not asking them to change their religious beliefs or their idea of what an ideal marriage is. My idea of an ideal marriage is marrying my partner whom I love and want to raise a family with. I want our future kid(s) to have the security that all married couples have. I pay taxes in California and deserve the same rights that my neighbors have.
Come to a No On 8 rally at Valencia Blvd and McBean Pkwy in Valencia. (24301 Valencia Blvd 91355) this Sunday (11/2) at 11 AM. Please spread the word about the rally.
Valencia and Santa Clarita is a haven for Yes on 8 supporters. This is where I grew up and I want to spread the word of equality. I am stressing that attendants of the No On 8 side be respectful to others' opinions. Undecided voters will not side with you if you are yelling and angered.
Yes on Proposition 8 = Gay Marriage (just one gay person to one straight person)
DON'T BE FOOLED - NO ON PROP 8 MEANS YOU'RE IN FAVOR OF GAY MARRIAGE. THIS IS A TACTIC THAT THE PROPOPENENTS HAVE BEEN USING TO CONFUSE VOTERS.
What's wrong with being in favor of Gay Marriage???
Michale.....
Wrong!
No on Prop 8 means that you're in favor of equal rights for all Americans. The Yes on 8 camp are the fools who are trying to change the constitution, not the other way around. Voting No on 8 leaves our constitution untouched and the ruling of the CA Supreme Court up held. Hysteria only works with people like yourself. The rest of us actually use our brains.
Vote NO on Prop h8!
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