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Jim Lichtman

Jim Lichtman

Posted: October 7, 2010 11:55 PM

Only About the Law?

What's Your Reaction:

At its best, religion can offer hope and comfort in time of need. At its worst... well, that brings us to Snyder v. Phelps -- a matter before the U.S. Supreme Court which is sure to raise reaction on both sides.

In plain English, the issue is "Does the First Amendment protect protesters at a funeral from liability for intentionally inflicting emotional distress on the family of the deceased?"

Four years ago, Lance Cpl. Matthew A. Snyder of Finksburg, Maryland, died from a non combat-related vehicle accident in Iraq. His family held a private funeral in Westminster. Reverend Fred Phelps, Sr., pastor of Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, Kansas, staged a protest outside the funeral with signs that read, "Thank God for Dead Soldiers," "Thank God for 9/11," and "Semper fi fags."

Although Lance Cpl. Snyder was not gay, the Westboro church used the funerals of soldiers to protest and "preach a strong anti-gay message," writes Lyle Denniston for the Supreme Court of the United States Blog, "believing that God hates America because it tolerates homosexuality, particularly in the military services."

Although the demonstration was kept a short distance from the church and local laws were not violated, protesters did interact with friends and family members who were both coming and going to the service.

During oral arguments before the Supremes on Wednesday, Denniston wrote:

Westboro Baptists' lawyer and family member Margie J. Phelps, of Topeka, Kan. wanted [a] simple constitutional line -- fitting her version of the facts. Albert Snyder [father of the deceased soldier] had intentionally turned his son's funeral into a public media event and himself into a public advocate, the protesters showed up to debate him on the sins of America and the consequences, and so, to Phelps, the First Amendment provided the usual shield for speech on "matters of public concern."

"We're talking about a funeral," said Sean Summers, the lawyer for the dead Marine's father:


The services for Matthew Snyder were a private event, it was disrupted by private individuals, who had made the private Snyder family its special target for its abuse, so, to Summers, the First Amendment has no role to play. To Summers, there was no public policy issue involved, just a message of personal intolerance.

While a respectful tone was used by the Justices in questions to Summers, a more skeptical manner was evidenced from several of the jurists.

"Chief Justice John G. Roberts, Jr., [repeated] with increasing force the accusation that the Westboro Baptist funeral protesters had singled out the dead soldier's father and the funeral, not to enter a discussion about public affairs including morality, but simply to achieve 'maximum publicity.' Snyder, [Roberts] said, sought only to bury his son, not to make any kind of statement. The Chief Justice was openly skeptical of the small church's claim, made by its lawyer, that 'it is not an issue of seeking maximum publicity; it was using a public platform to bring a public message.'"

Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg's question was more direct. "This is a case about exploiting a private family's grief. Why should the First Amendment tolerate that?"

"It is an insult to every American who has died for the freedom of speech," said the father of another dead soldier. "No one in the history of the nation has ever protested like this. Don't tell me that my son died for that."

In 1919, the eminent jurist Oliver Wendell Holmes famously wrote of the limits of free speech: "The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man falsely shouting fire in a theater and causing a panic."

But does that standard hold in Snyder v. Phelps? Does not the First Amendment allow the Ku Klux Klan to peacefully march down streets in many American towns? If Pastor Terry Jones followed through with his Koran Burning Day, as promised, would he and the church be liable for any deaths brought about in reaction? We may not agree with either message, but should not the principle be upheld even under the most odorous circumstances?

But what of the grieving families, are they not entitled to the respect, privacy and dignity accorded individuals at a time of great anguish? Is it only about the law?

Write and tell me what you think. I will have more to say on this.


Jim Lichtman writes and speaks on ethics. His commentaries can be found at www.EthicsStupid.com.

 
 
 
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Jdaddy1951
10:31 PM on 10/08/2010
I think the Supreme Court should rule on the side of privacy and uphold the original judgment against the Westboro Baptist Church.
05:12 PM on 10/08/2010
As I understand the facts of the case, the Snyders announced thier son's funeral in the local paper. As newspapers are considered a public forum I would argue that the Snyders made thier son's funeral a public event and there for 1st admendment protections apply. Howeve, if that is not the case and the Snyders did not public announce or advertise thier son's funeral then the Westboro nut jobs are completely open to being sued by the Snyders.
03:17 PM on 10/08/2010
The Snyder funeral was a private occasion for a private individual. No member of the Snyder family was at that time a public figure. Members of WBC interacted with family & friends who were going to the funeral. This is unacceptable. The concept that a ruling against them by the Supreme Court is going to damage the First Amendment is just as ridiculous as any ruling that upholds accountability for slander & libel. You cannot say anything you want whenever and whereever you want without being held accountable for it. WBC should be held accountable just as anyone else. Private individuals and private ceremonies are not forums for public debate.
03:14 PM on 10/08/2010
The KKK and Terry Jones were not infringing on the personal freedoms of specific individuals, and that's all Phelps does. If they were protesting about gay people as a march down the street or holding a rally, sure that should be protected under the First Amendment. But when they track down and single out an individual either at a funeral or at a school, it should fall under stalking or harassment law.
02:40 PM on 10/08/2010
These people at Westboro are dispicable awful human beings. That said, they are Americans and have the right to protest and speak their mind. Now, I think when they protest these funerals, we need to stand opposite them, and show solidarity for the fallen heroes. Opposing protesters should do all they can, to create a wall around those who are grieving for their loved one. Show those who are grieving that we thank their loved one for their service and we will stand beside them.

The irony in all of this is, because of the fallen soldiers, the Westboro church has the right to protest like this.
01:28 PM on 10/08/2010
Thousands of Internet hits have reported the Westboro group as being 1,000 feet away from the church entrance, and thousands of Internet hits have described the Westboro group as being 30 feet away from the church entrance. Why the factual discrepancy? It would seem very important. Does anyone know which is correct?
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
Jdaddy1951
06:57 AM on 10/08/2010
I predict that if the Westboro Baptist Church wins this one, eventually one of their numbers will be targeted by a grieving relative who feels he or she has nothing to lose, resulting in another family being victimized --- because of being prosecuted for assault or murder --- by these monsters.
06:41 AM on 10/08/2010
Mr. Snyder does not owe the Phelps a platform to spew their hatred. He has right to be left alone. Send the Marines to Westboro !
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jlive2003
Do not block the road of inquiry
01:57 AM on 10/08/2010
Your plain English statement of the case is fantastic, and the answer has to be no. A lot of commenters over on a related thread are worried about the chilling effect on freedom of speech, but it seems to me that the Court could easily write a pretty narrow ruling to the effect that no one has First Amendment protections from lawsuits if they are protesting at a private funeral. That would be neutral with respect to the message, it would not affect speech in venues like you describe (marches down Main Street or what-have-you), and it wouldn't even preclude the possibility of protesting at the funeral of a public figure.

Here is a question back to you. Suppose I obtain a permit to protest something and as part of my protest, I urinate in public. My guess is that I would still be arrested on some obscenity charges. Does protesting at a funeral count as obscene in the sense of violating reasonable community standards of decency and decorum?
02:57 AM on 10/08/2010
Wee-weeing in public and saying mean things aren't the same thing. I think they are insensitive but aren't they like 1000 feet away to begin with? It's not like they are in the church or in their face. I say just ignore them, trolls feed on reaction. I think the father should be more angry about his son dying in a pointless/illegal war(depending on which one he was in)
been2there
Facts have a liberal bias.
01:10 AM on 10/08/2010
Not an easy call. The Phelps family did, I think, cross the line of decency and should be fined. Not jailed, not forbidden to spout their revolting drivel, but fined for wantonly attacking a private family during a time of deep grief.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
Jdaddy1951
06:55 AM on 10/08/2010
I think all their assets should be awarded to Mr. Snyder and if he wants to burn their church to the groundand sow the ground with salt, more power to him.