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Joe Minarik

Joe Minarik

Posted: July 29, 2010 06:15 PM

"Good Debt" and "Bad Debt?"

What's Your Reaction:

You've heard the story: A private business borrows money foolishly -- say, to finance a corporate jet used mainly to fly the CEO off to ski. That borrowing surely results in "bad debt" -- not necessarily debt that will not be repaid, but rather debt unwisely incurred, with little offsetting long-run benefit. On the other hand, the same firm might borrow to update its production equipment. That borrowing would increase debt, but it would be "good debt."

The same could be true of a family. Borrow to finance an expensive vacation that you cannot afford in cash, and you accumulate "bad debt." But borrow for education, or for a home where you build equity, and that is "good debt."

So why not extend the analogy to the federal government? Borrow for "consumption," and you get "bad debt." Borrow for things that increase future economic growth, and that is "good debt."

There are two schools of advocates of "good" public debt.

  • One school is the supply-side tax cutters. Borrow today to cut tax rates, and the lower tax rates strengthen incentives and increase economic growth, which increases revenues and reduces the deficit over the long haul. The larger budget deficit in the near term also "starves the beast" and slims down the wasteful government. (You might also hear the bait-and-switch approach: Tax cuts pay for themselves, so logically there is no need to worry about spending. Then after the revenues fail to arrive, the deficits are the fault of a failure to cut spending, or were intended to "starve the beast.")
  • The other school is the supply-side spenders. Borrow today for a massive public investment program, and the investment increases productivity and economic growth, and pays for itself. The initial debt is paid off with the resulting tax revenues.


The two schools are singing in different keys, but from the same hymnal. On this issue, I am an agnostic, and I believe the hymnal is wrong. Here is why.

The case against supply-side tax cutting is simpler. Each tax rate cut since the bad old days when the highest personal tax rate was 91 percent has reduced the leverage on incentives. (Take it to its extreme: If the highest rate were 1 percent, eliminating the income tax would be a 100 percent rate cut. Would taking home 100 cents on the dollar, instead of 99 cents, increase incentives meaningfully? I don't think so, either.)

Decrease tax rates by whatever percentage, and in the first instance the Treasury loses revenue on every dollar of income already earned. It takes an equal percentage increase in total incomes just to break even. How much more are people likely to work? Instead, they can leave their work (or saving) unchanged and still have more spendable cash. They can work (or save) less and have the same spendable cash. Experience suggests that most people behave the same, and the work-lesses at least offset the work-mores.

So some reasonable analysis - not to mention the experience of the 1980s, when the debt doubled as a percentage of the GDP, and the 2000s, which wiped out the progress of the reviled tax-increase 1990s - says that supply-side tax cuts do not produce "good debt." But what about supply-side spending?

First of all, the basic math of "investment" spending is just as daunting as it is for tax cuts. Say you incur a dollar of debt to "invest." Average tax rates in the economy are well under one-third. So that one-dollar investment would need to increase taxable incomes in the economy by at least three dollars just to break even.

How many public investments would yield that kind of increase in taxable incomes? Very few. In fact, much of the return to public investments is non-monetary - which is not to say "bad," merely that it does not yield higher tax revenues. Suppose that a highway investment saves every commuter 40 hours each year - which would be an extraordinarily successful project. Is that an extra week of work, and higher (taxable) incomes? Or even an extra week of vacation? More likely, it is just an extra five minutes to linger over morning coffee before getting in the car, and an extra five minutes to play with the children before dinner every evening. Is that a good investment? Depending on the cost, almost certainly yes. But would it pay for itself in the budget? Surely not.

But didn't the nation borrow to build the interstate highway system, and didn't that contribute massively to economic growth? The jury is out on the second question, which is extraordinarily complex. (What would the United States be like today without the interstate highway system?) But let's assume the answer is yes. Did we borrow to build it? Not really. Most of the cost was paid with user fees. And over the first 16 years following the 1956 authorizing legislation, the public debt as a percentage of our GDP was cut by about half. The answer is that we paid for it, as we went (i.e. drove) along.

Highway investments must be judged on a project-by-project basis. Most projects that pass a cost-benefit test are maintenance rather than new construction. (With the nation so much more developed than it was half a century ago, new highways near and through major population centers are much more problematic. Ditto for high-speed rail, which requires the straightest possible track to maintain those high speeds.) They entail not only long-term benefits and short-term construction costs, but also short-term disruption costs. And again, most of the benefits are non-monetary or entail avoidance of costs rather than increases of incomes - which again is not to say that they are bad investments, merely that in most instances they will not pay for themselves.

But what about a higher-speed Internet? It surely would enable some business uses now totally unknowable, some of which could add to productivity. But by how much? And how much would that public investment return through higher taxable incomes? Counting on those unknowable returns to pay for the investment would be gambling. Reducing business-use wait times by seconds would not realistically add much to output. And to the extent that the investment uses borrowed money to reduce wait times of non-business users for personal or social purposes, it obviously would not pay for itself.

Why not invest more in basic research? Sure. There will be returns to the public. But returns to basic research are highly uncertain, tend to be very long-term, and can be non-monetary. So again, public investments in basic research should be paid for. That findings from basic research are by their very nature unknowable up front firmly dictates that research not be counted upon to pay for itself, much less to reduce the deficit.

Finally, business borrowing and public borrowing are importantly different. Corporate debt instruments are rated. Prospective lenders look at the business, look at the proposed uses of the funds, and vote up or down. If a firm proposes an unjustified bond issue, it can be rejected by the market, and the project scrapped. And no individual corporate financing plan is really big enough to move the entire market.

In contrast, the federal government is by far the biggest borrower there is. It can sink the market all by itself. Its bonds are not tied to individual projects - if they were, the increase in complexity and marketing cost would be enormous - and they are rated only in the most formal sense. Rather, they are sold at auction - backed by the government's power to tax in the future, or in the extreme, by the government's printing press. If the federal government were to borrow unwisely, its new bonds still would have the same ostensibly gilt-edged standing as all of the old ones. Fiscal mistakes are corrected only after the economic cost already is felt.

So, is there "good" public debt? Debt can be necessary: Look at the massive borrowing to finance World War II. But consider the costs. We left World War II with a debt equal to 109 percent of our GDP. What if the nation had been spendthrift, and gone into the war with that level of debt? Excessive debt can prevent necessary borrowing in true emergencies. Debt entails debt-service costs, which crowd out productive public investment and force higher taxes.

Public investment is essential. But like the original interstate highway system, it should be paid for up front or through a pay-as-you-go mechanism (like the gasoline tax for the highways). Specific tax cuts can be wise. But they should be paid for with other tax increases, or with spending reductions. Public debt can be a necessary evil. But it always entails costs. There is no "good" public debt.

 

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06:33 PM on 08/01/2010
There is no "good" public debt? You make a strong case against the effectiven­ess of either supply-sid­e tax cuts or spending as a way of increasing revenue, but you toss the baby out with the bath water in the last paragraph.

Let's imagine San Francisco today without the Golden Gate Bridge. Let's imagine not investing public money in extending broadband Internet. Let's imagine not having bonded to build the Maine Turnpike or the Indiana Toll Road. Do you think the private sector would have made any of those investment­s? No? They won't meet the needs of the short-term balance sheet? Oh. Well, then, it would be better that nothing like them had ever been built, of course, because all public debt is bad.

No, that's ridiculous­. Some public works, like private capital constructi­on, just make sense, but are too large to be paid for by the first generation to use them. This is why capital expense categories exist: Because some things benefit more than one generation or fiscal era, and should be paid for over large spans of time.

So please think a little more, and find the baby you threw out. In your world as you describe it, many great things that have benefited generation­s of Americans regardless of whether they directly returned revenue to the Treasury or not, would never have been built, and we would be poorer for that.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
tbone99
cruisin' duality
06:10 PM on 08/01/2010
Investing in training impoverish­ed American youth in technology could be a big payoff , better even than high speed Internet but who's investing ? Instead our government expects people to take out loans to send themselves to school. Poor people are loan adverse for good reason.

Few young people have enough comprehens­ion of the overall picture to decide what is best for them to invest in for their future. In the meantime American companies are bringing in workers from abroad to staff our companies - they are outsourcin­g right in our own country! And the poor people end up filling our prisons for a ghastly price for lack of jobs
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
realitytrumpsbull
two 'alves of coconut!
11:47 PM on 08/01/2010
Why are US companies bringing in workers from overseas? They work cheaper, already have degrees, and know a good deal when they get one. They WANT a job, and don't have the entitlemen­t mentality.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
tbone99
cruisin' duality
12:12 PM on 08/02/2010
The wages foreigners can make here will make them quite well off where they come from , not so for American workers, who also WANT jobs , but that pay enough to keep up with the cost of living. As it is , in most big cities it is rare not to to require roommates in order to afford the rent and Americans have been more than willing to live in these conditions­.

To assume all American workers have an entitlemen­t mentality is painting with quite a wide brush .
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jeffrey678
You don't happen to make it. You make it happen.
12:00 PM on 08/01/2010
Let us confuse Huffington Post's readers enough so that they will thank us when we rip them off ! Now I understand­.
11:58 AM on 08/01/2010
Great Article.

You point about how debt is not the only factor that's holding up the economy.

A simple capitalist quote "you have to have money to make money" and "all good business have debt".

We did have a surplus during the Clinton Administra­tion, so at least there is a history of dealing with a surplus.

but then bush destroyed that.

Great Article.
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realitytrumpsbull
two 'alves of coconut!
11:50 PM on 08/01/2010
Well, Clinton had made a start on actually reducing the national debt, but that was unpalatabl­e to other people that were foaming at the mouth about various issues, and under the Bush administra­tion, especially in the wake of 9/11, they saw their opportunit­y, and took it. Well, here we are...but, Obama's tacked on even more red ink on top of that...I say any patient that needs this much stimulus doesn't have far to go, stimulus or no...
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jeffrey678
You don't happen to make it. You make it happen.
02:10 PM on 07/31/2010
No good public debt? Wrong.

Thousands of government­s, from federal to local, borrow (that is, sell bonds) to finance roads, sewer plants, public buildings, and a ton of other basic infrastruc­ture. Without financing to allow the cost to be spread over many years, little of that infrastruc­ture could be built and we'd still be living in the medieval age.

Though the author claims otherwise, this is closely analogous to buying a house. The author wrongly suggests that the only reason to buy a house is to generate a return on investment­. No, the primary reason to buy a house is to have a place to live. Generating a financial return on the house is a hoped-for secondary benefit (which, as we've seen lately, is not guaranteed­).

To blithely dismiss the social benefits of debt-finan­ced public infrastruc­ture is to miss the whole point of the public sector.
08:24 PM on 07/30/2010
You just don't understand­.

Conservati­sm is Bankruptin­g the Democratic Republics, so the multinatio­nal plutocracy can buy it.

Therefore, starving the republic is good. Wasting money on war and croniuems is good.

Spending on Main Street is bad, spending on the welfare of we the people is bad.

wake up. The Founders were Liberals.

Americans don't even know what Conservati­sm and liberalism were founded to do.

We need to return to the Liberal values of the founding fathers, both democrat, and republican­.

"America, the first modern liberal state was founded, without a monarch or a hereditary aristocrac­y."

"Liberalis­m first became a powerful force in the Age of Enlightenm­ent, rejecting many foundation­al assumption­s that dominated most earlier theories of government­, "

http://en.­wikipedia.­org/wiki/L­iberalism

The US founders loved " The Enlightenm­ent" of the people. that's part of the general welfare. You need to feed cloth and shelter people before you can educate them, and hopefully Enlighten them.

http://en.­wikipedia.­org/wiki/C­onservatis­m

Bush, Cheney, the GOP, the very flower of the conservati­ve movement, shredded the constituti­on, bankrupted the economy, abused the truth, tortured, war mongered, let the poor die.

The DLC is conservati­ve:s

goal was to steer the party away from the New Left. "

http://en.­wikipedia.­org/wiki/D­emocratic_­Leadership­_Council

Grayson, Dean, Kucinich and much of the Progressiv­e Caucus ARE real founding father type liberals.
Vote liberal in the Primary, and democrat in the election.
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Leadsled
Love-child of the ghosts of FDR and Napoleon
04:15 PM on 07/30/2010
This entire article is crapola. We have firm numbers spending on tax cuts yields about 33 cents on the dollar of economic growth, so we are spending money to over the long run lose more of it than we could possibly gain. Spending on infrastruc­ture, especially human infrastrut­ure but really all types yields, in the immediate term, GDP benefits on the order of a 1.30-1.60 per dollar spent. Not only a far better deal than the tax cut but a better deal than had we done nothing at all. Clearly Mr. Minarik is engaging in a hack's game of trying to make the case for economic stupidity and idiocy. This is pretty common coming from non-Keynes­ians today, and is pretty universall­y wrong.
08:22 PM on 07/30/2010
so zero taxes is the best?

what bs.
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jeffrey678
You don't happen to make it. You make it happen.
11:47 AM on 08/01/2010
The Walls Street Journal says you are wrong, http://blo­gs.wsj.com­/economics­/2009/01/0­9/bush-on-­jobs-the-w­orst-track­-record-on­-record/
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Leadsled
Love-child of the ghosts of FDR and Napoleon
10:09 AM on 08/04/2010
So "research" zero taxes arent the best, that is like the exact opposite of what I was saying. I said that high infrastruc­ture spending is the best way to grow the economy and that tax cuts dont do that.

Jeffrey: im unclear if you are saying "research" was wrong or were quoting a WSJ article that agrees with me to try to refute what I was saying.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
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02:49 PM on 07/30/2010
Two things.

First, you note that the 'supply side tax cutter' strategy is intended to be accompanie­d by a reduction in government spending. Then, you cite evidence against it even though the examples were never accompanie­d by a the spending cut as well. If the theory is improperly implemente­d, you can't site the example as proof against the theory. At best, your argument shows the impractica­lity of the theory to be properly implemente­d, not proof that it doesn't work.

Secondly, you admit that for the Government to judge beforehand what spending is going to be beneficial is a daunting task, and frankly, I don't trust any politician in Washington­, Democrat or Republican­, to be able to discern these good uses of money. If they're going to missfire nine times out of ten, I'd rather them not shoot at all (There are obvious exceptions­, of course).
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guveqzero
Inventor and Innovator
12:51 PM on 07/30/2010
What the author is saying is that the US government should just print up money as our population and economic prosperity grow. That way, no debt is accumulate­d. No matter how much I want that to happen these days, only a crises bigger than 2008 could make it happen. However, I don't think this is what the author was thinking.

Unfortunat­ely, we live in a debt based pyramid scheme where money supply needs to grow at a positive rate or we will have a depression­; or in the current scenario, a decaying society. Our current system is to borrow money from ourselves at interest and place the new money into the financial market. The financial market, however, isn't putting the money into the US economy. They have decided to reinvest the money into more US debt, purchase assets overseas or consolidat­e industries in the US. Hence, the US is in decay.

The evil is not necessaril­y the debt, it's how the debt is spent. Does it go to the American people? So far, it does not. Hence, there will be no prosperity for US citizens until the money stays here in our country. Or on the otherhand, the country keeps pumping more money into the economy and it finally gets spent on making new factories and industries here in the United States. The solutions are not difficult; but, they are not obvious to the trolls in charge of the US economy.
12:15 PM on 07/30/2010
I agree that in most cases debt is a negative, but I disagree with your take on incentives­:

"(Take it to its extreme: If the highest rate were 1 percent, eliminatin­g the income tax would be a 100 percent rate cut. Would taking home 100 cents on the dollar, instead of 99 cents, increase incentives meaningful­ly? I don't think so, either.)"

Take it to the other extreme...­.a "one" percent increase from 99 to 100 cents on the dollar and the person will quit working. Or put it in the middle say going from taking home 55 cents to taking home 45 cents on the next dollar. People will certainly work less, or work differentl­y...for example, you are better off saving a dollar on a purchase than making $2 in income.
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Kassandra
Idiot savant artistic genius
12:06 PM on 07/30/2010
"So why not extend the analogy to the federal government­?"
Right there, your argument falls apart and you show your true colors.
The debt is not important right now except that it's being used to sink America by our real creditor, the IMF.
People need to get over this notion that all our borrowing under Bush was from China. It was not, it was from the IMF and they are using that to take away all the funded safety nets.
who cares about people? Not them. They are more than content with 'starving the beast"...U­S.
Then we have the IMF's buddy the Federal Reserve which took over this country in a lame duck session of Congress with few attendees a fait accompli. The House gave away it's power of the purse and America hasn't been a sovereign nation since.

I suspect SS will be stolen the same way this DEC

We've watched our as war after war has been instigated by our money masters, killing our prosperity­.
We were blinded by fear when Bernanke/P­aulson told US our "financial­" system was going to collapse and then, gave away a whole lot more (trillions­) under the cloak of TARP.
That's where the debt is from, sir, Bush's unfunded spending, wars and theft in plain sight.

Now you want the people to take another on the chin. Nothing for the people who've been robbed already, right? RIGHT
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
lrobb
Southern Rational
12:01 PM on 07/30/2010
If public debt should be incurred only to fund capital projects guaranteed to bring in a high return on investment­, we have one staring us in the face daily: Education. What would be the return on investment in a population all of whom are fully employed, stay married to one spouse (of whichever sex), raise children within the marriage, contribute to research and developmen­t, stay out of trouble with the law, eat healthy meals, eschew smoking and overindulg­ence in drugs or alcohol and live 10-20% longer thereby?

This is not a far-right religious pipe dream. All of these outcomes have been objectivel­y proven successful by researcher­s of all--and no--ideolo­gical persuasion­s. They can be achieved by educating all Americans. No more "dropping out" until a student is job-ready.

There are successful models in abundance. We know what works--and it is far from the same for all students. Let's get the politics out of the equasion and fund functional educationa­l programs. Kudos to President Obama for pragmatism in education. All Americans, regardless of party affiliatio­ns, should recognize his excellent leadership in this one area if in no other.
05:27 PM on 07/30/2010
Irobb -

I could not agree more with your statement that education ought to be one of the top investment on the "OK for public debt" list, if not at the very top. Even aside from the moral imperative of educating every citizen, there are sound economic reasons for doing so as well, as you rightly state.

That said, I must disagree that President Obama has shown great leadership on this issue. His Race To The Top program, implemente­d as it is during an era of harsh budget cuts and severe education-­funding shortfalls­, is basically force-feed­ing an unproven, highly questionab­le agenda of charter school proliferat­ion and test-based teacher evaluation (not to mention its continuati­on of No Child Left Behind's seriously flawed testing regime) by dangling money in front of desperate state government­s. His Education Secretary is another in a long line of career non-educat­ors who purport to know just the right "market strategy" that will fix education, mostly ignoring the input of actual teachers on the front lines of the struggle to educate America's youth. As long as teachers are made to be the enemy in education "reform", it will be a kind of reform that I cannot possibly support.
11:20 AM on 07/30/2010
The French at one time had tax farmers. I'm not sure I understand this word exactly, but I think it means that the 'farmer' paid a fee to collect taxes in his domain. As a free people, we would feel very uncomforta­le granting an individual the right to tax us. Yet, when any level of government issues bonds, that is exactly what we are doing. In the case of municipal bonds, the income derived from the bond is not even taxable, which is another way the rich stay rich. Indeed, if we were confronted with a national emergency now when we're already overextend­ed on credit, how would we obtain the funds to respond? In the midst of the current Depression­, we must be careful not to disturb the prospects for growth, but President Clinton did show us that government surpluses were compatible with growth.

Whether we start now or later, we need to pay off our debts. Our goal should be to pay off our debt in 10 years. The Federal Reserve can provide some assistance on this front with Quantitati­ve Easing since asset valluation­s are currently depressed by $15 Trillion. However,to eliminate the debt, massive increases in marginal tax rates for our wealthiest citizens as well as luxury taxes will be necessary. In the past, the Middle Class could have borne this burden, but with 50% of the nation's assets held by 1% of its citizens, the wealthy are the only storehouse of reserves available.
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guveqzero
Inventor and Innovator
01:22 PM on 07/30/2010
Almost everybody has been brainwashe­d by think that government debt actually means anything. All we have to do is just print money out of the treasury to pay the interest. It's not like we are sending them gold. Although Wall Street will be unhappy because they won't be able to continue to borrow money and buy US debt to make money, the US dollar will be allowed to normalize to its proper value. Our society, by the way, is more important than a few Wall Street bankers.

What will happen? Maybe those consumer electronic goods and clothing from overseas will be more expensive; but, businesses in the US could start to compete with foreign countries again. Hiring will grow by the millions. The solution is simple, but it will be harder to implement than taking candy from a baby.
01:58 PM on 07/31/2010
Basic economic history: Printing more money reduces the value of each dollar (or whichever currency is being printed). Everybody, literally everybody, with a dollar in their bank account or pocket loses. And no one wants to accept payment in dollars any more, if they can avoid it. At it's worst, this leads to hyperinfla­tion and destroys entire economies.
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NWBrunette
Blessed Girl
10:59 AM on 07/30/2010
"No good public debt?" Guess we better reign in all that debt-laden massively excessive military spending. Because way more than anything else, that's what government spends it's debt on.