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The "Shovel-Ready" Debate

Posted: 09/23/11 03:32 AM ET

Immigration, Social Security and health care were the most contentious issues in Thursday's spirited debate among the field of Republican presidential candidates vying for their party's nomination. Former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney put on another polished performance while Texas Governor Rick Perry seemed at times to struggle. Nonetheless, no candidate delivered a knock out punch.

All of the candidates criticized President Barack Obama's handling of the U.S. economy. Governor Perry began the debate by once again referring to the relatively strong Texas economy and jobs creation as the reasons he should be elected president, "If it'll work in the state of Texas, it'll work in Washington, D.C." Former Governor Romney again pointed to his private sector experience and his economic plan as the reasons he should be in the White House. But, late in the debate, former New Mexico Governor Gary Johnson had the night's best line, "My next door neighbor's two dogs have created more shovel-ready jobs than this president."

Governors Perry and Romney, the two frontrunners according to polls, went after each other on Social Security. In his recently released book Governor Perry denounced Social Security as a "Ponzi scheme" and suggested that some of the responsibility should be turned back to the states. When asked about Governor Romney's attacks on his stand Perry seemed to be on the defensive, "It's not the first time that Mitt has been wrong on some issues before...we never said that we were going to move this back to the states." He continued, "We ought to have as one of the options the state employees and the state retirees, they being able to go off of the current system, on to one that the states would operate themselves."

Governor Romney seized the opening, "Well, it's different than what the governor put in his book...There's a Rick Perry out there that is saying -- and almost to quote, it says that the federal government shouldn't be in the pension business, that it's unconstitutional." Governor Perry quickly responded by switching subjects to the former governor's universal health care plan for Massachusetts. The Texas governor said, "(In your book) you said it was exactly what the American people needed, to have that Romneycare given to them as you had in Massachusetts." Governor Romney denied he ever wrote that.

Immigration was a hotly debated subject and it found Governor Perry having to defend his policies. The Texas "Dream Act" allows children of illegal immigrants to pay in-state tuitions for college. Governor Romney criticized the Texas governor's position, "We have to turn off the magnet of extraordinary government benefits like a $100,000 tax credit -- or, excuse me, discount for going to the University of Texas. That shouldn't be allowed. It makes no sense at all." And former Pennsylvania Senator Rick Santorum attacked Governor Perry's overall immigration policy, "I think he's very weak on this issue of American sovereignty and protecting our borders and not being a magnet for illegal immigration."

Minnesota Representative Michele Bachmann, who had a stronger debate performance this time around, went after Governor Perry for his executive order in 2007 mandating that all 12 year-old Texas girls receive the HPV vaccine against cervical cancer. "Governor Perry made a decision where he gave parental rights to a big drug company," she charged, "That big drug company gave him campaign contributions and hired his former chief of staff to lobby him to benefit the big drug company." The governor said he was lobbied by a 31 year-old woman with cervical cancer and concluded, "I erred on the side of life and I will always err on the side of life as a governor as the president of the United States."

Governor Perry stumbled through his only real attempt to go on the offensive against Governor Romney, who he accused of being a flip-flopper on key issues. "I think Americans just don't know sometimes which Mitt Romney they're dealing with. Is it the Mitt Romney that was on the side of against the Second Amendment before he was for the Second Amendment?" Then the governor seemed to lose himself, "Was it -- was before he was before the social programs, from the standpoint of he was for standing up for Roe v. Wade before he was against Roe v. Wade? He was for Race to the Top, he's for Obamacare, and now he's against it. I mean, we'll wait until tomorrow and --and-- and see which Mitt Romney we're really talking to tonight."

It is unlikely that Thursday's debate in Orlando, Florida, will dramatically change the polls. Former Utah Governor Jon Huntsman, who had seen a bump up in a recent New Hampshire poll, may have actually hurt himself a bit with his awkward answer to who he might pick among the debaters to be his vice presidential running mate. His answer was businessman Herman Cain because he was also wearing a yellow tie at the debate.

In the weeks ahead, Governor Perry will have to do a better job of explaining his positions on Social Security and immigration or they may ultimately drag him down. Yet, what the governor lacks as a debater he makes up for in charisma and charm. On the other hand, while former Governor Romney is a strong debater with a solid business background, he is haunted by Romneycare and his history of changing positions on core Republican issues. A lack of enthusiasm may make it easier for President Obama to be reelected, provided he makes progress on reducing unemployment and improving the economy before election day 2012.

So, even though it is clearly a two-man race for the Republican nomination, many Republicans still haven't decided who to support. In other words, neither candidate is yet shovel-ready.

 

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rebelriser
artist, published author, activist
06:55 PM on 09/25/2011
Shovel ready for what? To dig their own crap off the pile that they've all helped put there? Right, they nedd to shovel out their crap. Republicans have not shoveled out any jobs worth talking about for many years, and they have blocked every jobs bill this Administration has brought forth, so why would you call them "shovel ready"?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
alvin12
09:14 AM on 09/24/2011
Shovel ready alright! Obama will bury either on them
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
realitytrumpsbull
two 'alves of coconut!
12:16 AM on 09/24/2011
If the Republicans nominate Paul, I'll consider voting Republican. Otherwise, it's Obama II for sure.
10:36 PM on 09/23/2011
The "poison pill" question that everyone is skirting for all these Economic myth builders is " Name one recession that was ever gotten out of with just spending cuts, in the History of the United States"!! If you can't please leave the stage and go jump in the Boston Harbor !
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RED66
We must return to a Constitutional government.
10:11 AM on 09/24/2011
How Silent Cal Beat a Recession

The late president inherited a bad economy, and he cut taxes and slashed spending to spur growth.

BY CHARLES C. JOHNSON

Eighty-eight years ago this week, Calvin Coolidge took office upon the sudden death of President Warren Harding. Like the current administration, the Harding-Coolidge administration faced a tough recession from 1919-1921. But unlike the current administration, the Harding-Coolidge and Coolidge-Dawes administrations cut taxes, balanced budgets and slashed government spending, reducing federal debt by over a third in a decade.

The economy grew, averaging just over 7% from 1924 to 1929, the years of his presidency. So did Coolidge's popularity. He was so popular that even during the Great Depression's height song-writer Cole Porter compared his lover to the "Coolidge dollar."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903520204576484673631290098.html?mod=WSJ_topics_obama
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JFK averted one with his tax cuts as well.

Isn't history a wonderful thing!
05:54 PM on 09/23/2011
I am still of the opinion that so-called-journalists should keep their opinion to themselves. I don't ask my mechanic for his advise on heart surgery.
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oneeasyrider
E=mc2: From light you exist
05:42 PM on 09/23/2011
Nice summary of pseudo business man Romney, pseudo economics expert Ron Paul, pseudo job creator Rick Perry, pseudo medical expert Michele Bachman, pseudo intellectual Newt Gingrich, pseudo moralist Rick Santorum, and pseudo 999 tax expert-job-creator Herman Cain.

What did I glean from the debate: Nothing -- same old failed pseudo intellectual (denial of facts, history and logic) approach to every issue. In fact, seemed each and every candidate was determined to double down on every failed GOP policy in an accelerated race to the bottom.
06:45 PM on 09/23/2011
Yet you probably voted for a guy that was barely a senator that authored very few bills, had never run a business, barely even worked for anyone, was not a tax expert nor a medical expert, but he could read a written speech very well. Oh yeah, and he clearly doesn't know what he's doing and is in way over his head.
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oneeasyrider
E=mc2: From light you exist
11:58 PM on 09/23/2011
Guilty as charged, zip, and likely I will again. Political experience is likely over-rated; I want the smart person with keen judgement, a curious mind, sensibilities, vision and strength of character. I will admit, President Obama has not fulfilled all of my expectations -- but not for the reasons you might expect -- no, I had hoped he would be much more forceful with Conservatives; but the drama continues...we will both see how events unfold.
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rebelriser
artist, published author, activist
06:59 PM on 09/25/2011
You people might sound viable if you would stop believing FOX, and it is you Tea Partiers who are in over your heads for not knowing what Republicans are doing to destroy our economy.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
shankapotomus
08:21 PM on 09/23/2011
Just don't mention economics in the same sentance or book with Obama.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
masreality
Author of "Misconceptions and realities of life"
05:21 PM on 09/23/2011
It is an open field, none of the horses qualify for the race and so at this time it seem hopeless. Our country is in a state of desperation and what we need is healing. How can a doctor heal a patient without a medical agenda. The opposition side is divided against itself incooperating the tea party with arms. GOD BLESS AMERICA.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ftkl1234
03:50 PM on 09/23/2011
When the contenders and the GOP deny science, I don't believe we want leaders like that.

Did they all miss science classes? Are they only playing to their voter base that probably skipped science classes too?
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
broui
No d#%& cat. No d#%& cradle.
02:47 PM on 09/23/2011
It can take as much as ten years to get an infrastructure job to "shovel ready".

The programs FDR created to help get us out of the Depression are nigh impossible today. It's too easy for a fringe group or a corporation to gum up the works for years and years.

The process needs to be streamlined.

Otherwise, rebuilding our infrastructure ($3.5-5 trillion in dire needs according to the Army Corps of Engineers) will be slow and so will rebuilding the economy.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ftkl1234
03:52 PM on 09/23/2011
All respects to your comments, I believe our times mandate that delays and obstructions cannot and will not be tolerated. I hope I'm right.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
broui
No d#%& cat. No d#%& cradle.
05:26 PM on 09/23/2011
So we agree.

My father in law works for Oregon - roads, etc. The more I learn about the process from him, the less I like. MAJOR streamlining is needed - yesterday.

But, until they change the laws, delays and obstructions will continue and we'll be rebuilding piecemeal.
06:48 PM on 09/23/2011
Unfortunately it will not happen. Here in CA it typically starts in the courts, mostly due to environmentalists and their shakedowns, then every other two bit lawyer that wants his pound of flesh. Then the unions jump in to demand they do the work and no others, more lawsuits and on and on. By the time you actually get around to digging a hole, you are already in the hole financially speaking. It's too bad that we waste SOOOO much money just trying to do something worthy here.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
12:00 PM on 09/24/2011
broui
You're probably correct that from the design phase to permitting to contract award and finally actual construction to begin, it can take 10 years. However, there are actual projects ready as evidenced by a lone congressman, in Florida, bringing to a halt airport construction projects and loss of tax revenue (which most airlines collected anyway and put into their pockets). His reason for this was that he did not want FAA or airline employees to exercise their right to join or not join a labor union.

Pure politics and nothing to do with job creation.
02:12 PM on 09/23/2011
So these Govenors don't have a plan in place to fix their dilapidated infrastructure? Are they waiting on the federal government to do that and pay for it too?
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scottishboy
Born in the USA!
02:10 PM on 09/23/2011
When I grew up on the farm, we had a few different types of shovels, digging holes, cleaning the walks and we had one for the horses and cows in the barn. Which one should Obama use?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Scott EngageAmerica
02:05 PM on 09/23/2011
Romney and Perry can argue about who said what all they want, but the truth remains that Social Security is running out of money and something needs to be done.

Social Security's trust fund will run dry by 2036. If the trust fund run out, the program will no longer be able to pay full benefits. Social Security would be able to pay only 77% of promised benefits after 2036 and would have to again reduce benefits in 2085 (http://eng­.am/ohrjRd).
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BigRex
We need to talk about your TPS reports.
09:05 PM on 09/23/2011
Not to pick nits..but if SS can meet 77% of its obligation after 2036 then it won't "run dry" by 2036 as you contend. Running dry would mean it can't meet any of its obligations.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
JasonTromm
#Vote2012 for the RIGHT kind of CHANGE
01:53 PM on 09/23/2011
Gary Johnson doesn't have a snowball's change in you-know-where of getting the nomination, but he definitely had the most quotable moment of the night.
01:32 PM on 09/23/2011
It's crystal clear who the Establishment fears from Peyronnin's coverage of the candidates. He covers #1 and #2, then skips to #4, #5, #6 and #7. Like Jon Stewart says, WHAT HAPPENED to #3?
Yes Mr. Peyronnin, be very afraid. Ron Paul really will stop the feeding by the banks and bank-owned media at our expense. You can see Ron Paul on Jon Stewart Monday night.
01:14 PM on 09/23/2011
My dog just provided me a shovel ready job.