More

Featuring fresh takes and real-time analysis from HuffPost's signature lineup of contributors
John Seed

GET UPDATES FROM John Seed
 

Robert Hughes and the Warhol Faultline: Where Do You Stand?

Posted: 06/29/11 01:10 PM ET

On my Facebook wall this morning I came across a video clip posted by Israel Hershberg, a painter who is also the Artistic Director and Founder of the Jerusalem Studio School.

The video, which was excepted from a 2008 BBC program, The Mona Lisa Curse, by critic Robert Hughes, straddles both sides of an art world faultline. On the one side, are those who think that Andy Warhol damaged art and painting, and took it into the realm of a joke. Hughes, who feels that Warhol "had nothing to say," is one of Warhol's detractors.

Hughes likes Non-Warholian art. Non-Warholian artists believe in the primacy of making things and employ tangible skills and ideas in the process. They also make their art without employing legions of paid assistants or relying on methods of mechanical reproduction.

On the other side of the argument is collector Alberto Mugrabi, whose father owned 800 Warhols. Mugrabi has a clear vision of Warhol's eminence. In his view Warhol was a visionary who "opened doors," for the next generation of artists including Richard Prince and Damien Hirst, both of whom Hughes dismisses. Mugrabi clearly embraces the Post-Warhol artists who have no qualms about fame, or sensationalism, and who have chosen ideas over skills. Of course Mugrabi is willing to unreservedly trumpet his high regard for these artists: he and his family own stock in them in the form of their works of art.

Take five minutes, watch this video, and let me know how you respond. Marion Maneker of the Art Market Monitor thinks that Hughes embarrasses himself: "It's almost painful to watch the conversation between Alberto Mugrabi and Robert Hughes. Hughes's bullying does his wit, learning and great skill as a writer no credit." Painter Alan Feltus, who responded to the video on Hershberg's Facebook wall, feels differently: "Few of us can say what he (Hughes) says as well to a listening audience."

I'll toss out my opinion: I don't think Warhol was stupid -- I think he was a genius as a social observer and marketeer -- but I also think he did genuine damage to the field of art. I also think that Hughes is right to make us all suspicious of the power that collectors have to influence prices, taste, and museum curators. Israel Hershberg, who doesn't mince words, said this on Facebook:

The substance of the video is not about stylistic biases as much as it is about the stated goals of fatuous idiots with fortunes like Mugrabi manipulating cultural institutions into adopting their impulses as private collectors into museum practice.

I'm ready for a good healthy comment war here, so bring it on. I'll be aligning myself with Robert Hughes.


Author's Note: To view the above clip in the context of a longer 10 minute segment, click here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtMqbbBZ24w

 
 
 

Follow John Seed on Twitter: www.twitter.com/seedhuffpost

 
 
  • Comments
  • 72
  • Pending Comments
  • 0
  • View FAQ
Comments are closed for this entry
View All
Favorites
Recency  | 
Popularity
Page: 1 2  Next ›  Last »  (2 total)
02:18 AM on 08/23/2011
I'm sorry that I missed this when it was first posted. Alice Neel was helped in her career by Warhol, and she painted his portrait as well as portraits of his followers. Yet she said of him that he is responsible for a great deal of pollution in the art world. I can't imagine putting it better than that.

Thanks again to John Seed for another excellent post, and for Robert Hughes for speaking up.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
09:41 AM on 07/06/2011
Guston summing it up. A totally different kind of payment.

"I am a moralist and cannot accept what has not been paid for, or a form that has not been lived through."
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
06:33 AM on 07/04/2011
Say we have two rooms. One with Picasso, Rothko and Pollock ( or Kandinsky, Miro and Hockney ) in it and the other with Warhol, Hirst and Judd. All ready to teach your ten year old child about art and being an artist. Which room are you going to put them in? There's no question which one to go to if your after the money. But what about the art part?
I think what Andy Warhol correctly recognized that there was a market for anti-art. Today the anti-art market has grown to such an extent that it now dictates what the artist does. And any artist who does what their told to do isn't really an artist are they. More a manufacturer. Or a Factory.
12:02 AM on 07/02/2011
Warhol's contribution is as a formalist. Though his discussion about culture and its trends are very insightful, unique, and predictive (some snippets, here: http://books.google.com/books?id=Rm6bwozwRaMC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_atb#v=onepage&q&f=false), it's his insight into formal aspects of images that are notable.

And, remember, the market is meaningless. It shouldn't be used as a criterion.
photo
HUFFPOST BLOGGER
John Seed
Arts blogger
08:41 AM on 07/02/2011
Warhol's insights into the formal aspects of images are brilliant. However, they were largely borrowed from the sociologist Marshall McLuhan... more about that in a later blog.
11:50 PM on 07/01/2011
That this article is based on a premise where the *market* for any art is the primary factor in determining an artist's worth, indicates a flawed argument from the start.
photo
HUFFPOST BLOGGER
John Seed
Arts blogger
08:39 AM on 07/02/2011
Hi Bucket,

I hear your point, but \in my view Warhol had something to do with shaping market attitudes. His art -- including his dollar sign images -- was a withering challenge to existing notions of connisseurship.

http://artcritical.com/bookcritical/BAMoney.htm
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
08:57 PM on 07/01/2011
Just came across this from an interview with Peter Selz:

"Arthur Danto thinks the Brillo box was the most important work of art in the postmodern period and maybe it was, because it had such a tremendous impact! The whole idea of perception of art changed, because if you looked a painting by Kandinsky or by Mark Rothko, let’s say, you had to—it took a great deal of input from the viewer to try to understand what was going on, to try and comprehend it, to try and understand it in terms of the whole history that led the kind of creative impulse and success of a Kandinsky or a Rothko. It required a considerable understanding and give and take. But once you have a Brillo box or a Lichtenstein comic strip enlarged, it doesn’t take anything.  
    

For the first time in modern art you had an art movement that was totally accepted immediately. The artists exhibited their work and it was bought by collectors. The prices went up. It was easy to make. Easy to look at. It replicated what was around. In a way, Modernism, from its very beginning going back to Impressionism, tries to create something that goes beyond what we know. Then suddenly, we have an art that replicates what we know. Once this happened, the whole tradition was broken, you see."
photo
HUFFPOST BLOGGER
John Seed
Arts blogger
11:05 PM on 07/01/2011
Very perceptive, and from a man I respect.
09:43 AM on 07/02/2011
Danto's approaches art from philosophy; more precisely from the philosophy of art and art history. The Brillo box, for him, was a breakthrough not (only?) because it challenged what could be art but that it was the culmination of the question of differences between art and reality.

From The Philosophical Disenfranchisement of Art: "The question of why these were art and while Brillo cartons which they pretty closely resembled, were not, was the problem that possessed me then. [If their differences] could not account for the difference between art and reality, [..] the question was what can." His answer was, it could not rest [solely] on any presumed aesthetic difference. He proposed considering instead an artwork's "historical location [...][as it] was a partial function of where in the historical order it originated, and with which other works it could be situated in the historical complex to which it belonged."

So as to Rembrandt and Warhol: "historical circumstance penetrates the substance of art so that two indiscriminable objects from different historical periods would or could be vastly different as works of art, with different structures and meanings, and calling for different responses. In order to respond to them at all, an interpretation constrained by the limits of historical possibility was required. History, in brief, because it was inseparable from interpretation, was inseparable from art itself because artworks themselves are internally related to the interpretations that define them."
04:44 PM on 07/02/2011
Well, obviously Rembrandt and Warhol are both major artists..you can always compare and contrast artists. I'm not sure whether you were responding in the negative or positive to that. My point was simply that I think there are many more contrasts to be drawn than comparisons. And, generally (although certainly not universally), thirty years ago the two would not have been thought linked in very many ways at all. Thirty years later, however, facing increasing speculation that Warhol, Hirst, and Koons should not receive the same sort of reverence for authorship and artistry traditionally associated with the work as some of the painters who actually produced their own works (see Hirst's Wallace Collection exhibition to see one of Hirst's attempts at a retort), rather than admit contrasts, Koons and Hirst (and more importantly their dealers, and the economic forces behind Warhol...which includes Gagosian and Brandt, not just the Mugrabis), have tried to align their careers with the careers of Old Masters. I consider that the market driving the analysis.
06:03 PM on 06/30/2011
Defining "art" is like defining "pretty" or "special"... completely subjective. Financially benefiting from selling art, or having assistants in studio-- is certainly not new. Rembrandt made multiples to support himself, Warhol just made a whole well-orchestrated industry out of it.
Rather than trying to defeat/diminish Warhol (or Hirst, Prince, etc.) fans, Hughes should just stick with NOT supporting the that type of art if he objects, and go support something else. Staying neutral would seem classier and more open-minded for a subject so thoroughly subjective as "art".
11:52 PM on 06/30/2011
The issue of studio assistants really helps to crystallize the problem here. Warhol has been applauded in the past for having brought art up to date by applying an assembly line ideology to the artistic process. Now, for my own two sense, I basically agree with this...in that, the sort of mass production Warhol engaged in has little in common with the apprenticeship system that Raphael and others engaged in. In order to try to protect Warhol's market, however, with growing rumblings in the art word that such production is significantly divorced from the traditional skills that artists have been primarily valued for, many a savvy gallerist/curator has been more than willing to try to create idea of lineage between...oh, say Rembrandt and Warhol...despite the reality that the two artists have almost nothing in common.

So why try to connect such disparate figures? What's the common thread? To preserve the market. ...Meaning, look, I can accept that Warhol came up with an interesting strategy, even if I think most of the work that his assembly line produced is well...redundant, to say the least. But the current market cannot accept criticism of any of their top players--big money has become involved. And rather than find a story and stick with it, we have major galleries and curators trying to espouse that Jeff Koons is working in a similar way (as far as production) as masters from 500 years ago.
11:53 PM on 06/30/2011
I applaud Robert Hughes. And I think he has it right. At the core, for at least the "high end" of the art world (which, unfortunately, informs most of the major museums of the world now in one way or another), the money to be made or lost is what is driving "the narrative"...not the underlying art. True, some of that art has merit. But with so much of it proudly embracing and trying to reflect a consumer culture...Prince, Hirst, and others look increasingly to me like the disposable plastic cups of the art world...pour a glass on wine, get a quick buzz, toss...
03:46 PM on 06/30/2011
In response to Hughes reasonable inquiry, when given the opportunity to enlighten the world about the genius of his favorites, Mugrabi babbles inarticulately that Warhol is a 'visionary', and Richard Prince 'has some ideas'.
Such facile commentary from a person who collects and champions these two vacuous scam-artists deserves little respect. It seems to me that Hughes is being excessively polite and restrained in his response.
Of course Mugrabi is under a terrible handicap - nobody has ever been able to to articulate the profound ideas behind the work of Warhol and Prince, for the simple reason that they do not exist.
01:14 PM on 06/30/2011
nice that you respond to a lot of the comments.
photo
HUFFPOST BLOGGER
John Seed
Arts blogger
01:27 PM on 06/30/2011
Whaat, I live two hours from the city, and blogging is a way of having art world friends. Welcome to my water cooler.
08:44 AM on 06/30/2011
Andy Warhol was of great importance on the history of America Art. He changed the focus and challenged the idea of who was an artist and what could be considered art. His sexual orientation and views of gender challenged the male dominated heroic stance of the 50's. He brought into question what an art image is and what effect that image has on society. He was one of the first artists to bring into question glamour, the death penalty and war through his subject matter. And he made beautiful things.
So when Robert Hughes voices his person take on Warhol, " He was the stupidest man I have ever met" and intentionally confuses it as some type of manifesto against the excesses of the financial world it is both shameful and painful to watch.
photo
HUFFPOST BLOGGER
John Seed
Arts blogger
10:09 AM on 06/30/2011
Hi Richard,

In my view what Warhol understood best was fame. He made himself famous and in the process his art became famous. I do think that Hughes is wrong, very wrong, in calling him stupid, but I do connect with the idea that Warhol and his work can be connected to financial excesses. When you buy a Warhol you are a speculator, not a collector. Finally, on the question of beauty -- which is of course subjective -- I am going to tell you that I don't find Warhol's works beautiful. I tend to find them chilling. Your turn, JS
11:09 AM on 06/30/2011
Hello John,
I'm always cautious to jump on the 'art is subjective' band wagon as it can become the rallying cry for populism.
I believe that the stories about Warhol's fame are completely over blown. I think it resulted from the media making a tag line out of his "fifteen minutes of fame" statement. Andy said a lot of things.
Pollack, Burden, Christo all made themselves famous as did many other artists. Warhol's art became famous because his art broke through barriers and invented new language and he was one of the first to take control of his own career in the manner of how he made and sold his work. This is something that we as artists should champion not denigrate.
11:52 PM on 07/01/2011
You are talking about the collectors, not about the artist. You need to make this distinction.
photo
Jane Hart
Curator Exhibtions Art + Culture
11:43 AM on 06/30/2011
Very well said Richard!! Thank you for so excellently articulating this truth. As someone who has been a contemporary arts professional for close to 30 years (in NYC, London, L.A. and Miami) I find it dismally disappointing that there remains to this day such a broad based misunderstanding of the nature of what today's art's significance is. Referring to Jerry Saltz' article about Venice Bienniale and current the Blank Generation-- I tend to agree with him and see his point-- Art Schools churning out practitioners of well worn genres. And while Mr. Warhol's philosophy may have had some influence on this aspect of artistic production-- his contributions to the world and the way we see and understand it far outweigh the limitations a number of people here have ascribed to his work.

The Art Market is an phenomenon unto itself -- driven no doubt by all sorts of investors who are seeking to participate in it and view it primarily if not solely as a commodity. That is also a sad truth of the art world today. But lets not lay blame on Warhol or any one individual. These are the times we live in and no one foreshadowed that better in artistic terms than Warhol.
photo
HUFFPOST BLOGGER
John Seed
Arts blogger
01:32 PM on 06/30/2011
Jane, we talk about the "art world" but I like what Peter Plagens says: there are a LOT of art worlds.. dozens, hundreds, thousands...

The "art world" that frustrates a lot of us is the one that has become a kind of stock market where artists and their legacies are validated by price. That is the art world that the press most often reports about. My philosophy as a blogger is to try, whenever I can, to write about artists that haven't had enough written about them yet.

Of course I made an exception this week to rev the engines and bring in some new voices.

Jane, nice to meet you, let's keep the conversation going. JS
08:02 AM on 06/30/2011
Simply put, Warhol was about making money, the collectors were about spending money to feed their ego. Ergo, - The art world has become an insiders game in which profit crowds out legitimate creativity.
photo
HUFFPOST BLOGGER
John Seed
Arts blogger
10:09 AM on 06/30/2011
Simply put, but accurate.
07:32 AM on 06/30/2011
"Warhol damaged art and painting, and took it into the realm of a joke." Warhol after all was a product of his American culture. Read the comments on any article regarding art. Most Americans can not help themselves from making jokes about what they don't understand. They don't understand because there is no one to teach art to them, and few schools think it is important enough to have it on the curriculum. It only becomes of an interest when there are large sums of money attached to this or that work of art. It is only its monetary value that gives art any place on the American scene.
photo
HUFFPOST BLOGGER
John Seed
Arts blogger
01:33 PM on 06/30/2011
I worry that what we "teach" has become very orthodox. After all, when we started teaching modern art -- and I use the "Shock of the New by Robert Hughes as my class text -- we kill the art in the process. Warhol, a joke or not, is now a "textbook" artist.
12:59 AM on 06/30/2011
too much credit/blame is given to Warhol for the dismal current state of the arts. It was after all Robert and Ethel Scull that started this crap. Warhol was among the artists that they marketed, but he is only a piece of the larger, closed-off market they created.....the idea is: pick an artist, and start buying and selling the work for large sums of money.....they have to talented geniuses if the work sells for THAT much right?
photo
HUFFPOST BLOGGER
John Seed
Arts blogger
10:10 AM on 06/30/2011
WBR, you have a good point. Of course if others started the trend Warhol certainly helped to grease the rails.
07:16 PM on 06/29/2011
The question of what is art is very subjective. I happen to share Hughes point of view and believe that art is about creative ideas and the skill of execution. Warhol proved that anyone could make art, as long as it was commercial success. Now, it can be argued that art is the social commentary of what is going on in the world and echoes the sign of the times. In those terms Warhol and the followers have proved that an artist employs a stable of "craftsmen" to execute their ideas, much like a how a successful corporation function. When art becomes products in the "art industry", the importance of why we need art in the first place is lost. Creativity, and therefore art has always played a large part of testing the ground for new developments in the human evolution.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
05:31 PM on 06/29/2011
John...surely you've touched a "nerve". There is nothing much left to say when one listens to the repartee between Hughes + A.M. One is an educated art critic, who knows what he is looking at + the other is the son of a.... (fill in the blank). I've been insulted (time + again) by the hype going on around Hurst's "oeuvre". He + his Wall St. friends seem to feed off of each-other. Sadly. the art world today is more about money than talent. Warhol was the first to be entertained at the "Fellini-esque" quality of his "factory". He's gotten the last laugh on us all + from the grave, no less. There's a story going round that De Kooning would not shake Warhol's hand or acknowledge his presence; I can empathize with De Kooning's rage. When art critic (Gerry Saltz of NYMagazine) questions IF there IS any message coming from our newest crop of Venice Biennale art stars, it's a sorry state of affairs. What masquerades as ART these days says so much about the insanity in our world.
photo
HUFFPOST BLOGGER
John Seed
Arts blogger
10:11 AM on 06/30/2011
I think Jerry Saltz is turning the corner. I am interested to see what is next...