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Another Teen Bullied to Death, Another Reason for a New Christianity

Posted: 12/ 8/2011 10:00 am

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Another kid has been bullied into killing himself. His name is Jacob Rogers. He went to Cheatham County Central High School, in Ashland City, Tenn. Apparently he'd been being pretty severely bullied for four years. It got so bad that around Thanksgiving he quit going to school.

A friend of Jacob's told reporters, "He started coming home his senior year, saying 'I don't want to go back. Everyone is so mean. They call me a faggot, they call me gay, a queer.'"

Yesterday Jacob took his own life.

You can read more via MSNBC. (An important detail not mentioned in that MSNBC story comes from from KingstonSprings.org: "Dr. Tim Webb, Director of Cheatham County Schools [said] that his almost all-new staff at the high school only knew of one incident of bullying and confronted the accused over the bullying. However, Dr. Webb also noted that because staff were new to the school, they were perhaps not aware of the extent of bullying that Jacob had endured in years past.")

I've done a fair amount of writing on these sorts of tragedies (see this past Saturday's "Tell Me, Christian, That You Hear this Boy," "Christians and the Blood of Jamey Rodemeyer" and "My Gay Christian Cousin Committed Suicide," to name just three). And so I have no doubt that some will claim that the primary reason Jacob killed himself is not because he was bullied. They'll say that we don't know the whole story. They'll point to the fact that Jacob lived with his grandmother, that his family is poor (not, God knows, that poverty is any sin) -- that it's safe to assume this kid had problems beyond being bullied.

And I will respond with what I always say: that certainly there are always myriad causes behind the suicide of any person. But that that does not alter the fact that the root cause of tragedies like the Jacob Rogers story is that strain of Christianity that continues to insist that homosexuality is an evil affront to God.

If Christians would actually read the Bible, instead of daring to insist that three or four isolated phrases within it justifies a theology that has no more to do with Christ than Fred Phelps has to do with Welcome Wagon, we would arrive at a popular Christianity that is not, as so much of our Christianity is today, a pure affront to anyone with half a conscience.

And I will respond with what I always say: that certainly there are always myriad causes behind the suicide of any person. But that does not alter the fact that the root cause of gay teens being bullied because they are gay (whether or not they actually are) is that strain of Christianity which continues to insist that homosexuality is an evil affront to God.

And that Christianity would dissipate the motivation of those kids who bully in the name and spirit of condemning homosexuality. That particularly noxious train would simply come to a halt. Because there wouldn't be left any enduring reason for anyone to ever condemn gay people at all.

Then gay people would just be ... people. You know: that thing God made in his own image.

Fellow Christians: will you please stop treating the Bible like it's a permission slip from God to be just as ignorant and immoral as your scared little self wants to be-and to raise your children to be just like you?

If not, then be sure to buy a new Bible every year. It's a lot easier than having to keep washing the blood off your old one.

 
 
 

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04:37 PM on 12/12/2011
John Shore and Rob Bell are ear ticklers.

A time will come when people will not listen to accurate teachings. Instead, they will follow their own desires and surround themselves with teachers who tell them what they want to hear.
08:26 PM on 12/12/2011
That time is already here, my friend.
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talkstocoyotes
04:57 PM on 02/04/2012
"A time will come when people will not listen to accurate teachings. Instead, they will follow their own desires and surround themselves with teachers who tell them what they want to hear. "

Describes the Religious Right to a tee.
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11:34 PM on 12/11/2011
I remember as a black child sitting down with my mother, father, sisters, and brother and watching the black people protesting and marching for civil rights being knocked down with powerful streams of water from fire hoses, snarling dogs with big, sharp teeth biting and pulling on those knocked down, and policemen with long black sticks beating black people around the head and back. And you could read lips and see them shouting N*GGER!

But, what I remember most was my Dad and Mom bowing their head and praying. What surprised me was that they were praying both for those being physically attacked and those doing the attacking. At one point, I remember asking my Dad why they were praying for those hateful white people... My Dad replied, they are all God's children sweetie, some just don't know it yet.

Some Christians have God in their minds, but they haven't let Him in their hearts. They haven't let Him renew their spirit and allow His love to lead them. It will all work out as God has planned. Christians will learn to lead by love, and sinners will learn to seek the light of that love...God.
09:12 PM on 01/12/2012
So well said. "Christians will learn to lead by love."

Learn to Lead by Love.
Learn to Lead by LOVE.
Learn to LEAD by LOVE.
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iLdoRight
Encouraging The Rightest Rightness
09:01 PM on 12/11/2011
Some people struggle, grasp at every straw of a reason to stay alive. Some encourage others to try to find a worthy goal to spend their free minutes on. Some give up and quit or try to make a point with a damaging act. Someone long ago said, "Dying is easy it is the living that is hard." Anyone ever hunted for the statistics on how many really give up and what was the age of youngest child known to have done so? There could be a lot of changes that would help make things better.
02:40 PM on 12/11/2011
Bullying Christians and Preying on Tragedy. The author offers no evidence that Christianity had anything to do with the suicide of the young man. Demonizing any who think homosexuality is morally wrong and are therefore bullies for stating the clear Biblical injunction about sex outside of marriage is immoral and a distortion of this tragedy.
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MindyC
It's cold and micro-bio season. Get vaccinated!
05:34 PM on 12/11/2011
Anyone who thinks homosexuality is "morally wrong" is misguided and misinformed, both Biblically and morally. Homosexuality, not being a choice, cannot be morally right or wrong, it just IS. Like being left-handed. I'm not morally any different than right-handed people - there is no right/wrong value on something that is a state of being.

By believing this, by believing what has wrongly been taught by those who need control over large groups of people, by those who need a BIG SIN at which to direct their righteous indignation so that people don't pay attention to their wealth accumulation (politicians, TV evangelists and mega-preachers), you and everyone like you contributes to the culture of hate that gives bullies their venom and gay kids their despair. The Bible DOES NOT say that homosexuality is morally wrong. You have to read those very few passages that appear to discuss homosexuality within their cultural and political contexts to know what they really mean.

That's why I believe with my whole heart that John's book - the one he mentions above - should be imperative reading for anyone who grew up believing as you do. You are wrong. I don't believe you are wrong out some sort of ugly nature of your own, but wrong, wrong, wrong because you and other Christians have been misled for a very long time. Read the book. Read the testimony. Mr. Shore IS a Christian, of the best kind.
12:33 PM on 12/12/2011
You are mishandling the issue of homosexuality being a choose. In a Christian world view does anyone choose their sinful inclinations? No. The hateful man does not wake up one morning and decide to be hateful. He just is. The lustful man does not wake up one morning and decide to be lustful. He just is. This is because sin is always rooted in the flesh, and in our fallenness we are its slaves. The choice then becomes what do we do with our sinful inclinations? Sin is a state of being, but it is a state of being we can and are called to repent of and be freed from by the grace of Jesus. Saying homosexuality is not a choice is no argument for it not being a sin. Clearly no one chooses their inclinations, but then clearly everyone has a choice as to what they do with their inclinations. Such an argument would do away with the concept of sin altogether.

As far as reading the Bible contextually, do you have any specific arguments? I have heard many arguments as to why we should not follow the clear meanings of passages that certainly appear to condemn homosexuality, but every one of them has failed to hold up once I have actually examined the argument. What arguments do you find persuasive? I think if you are going to tell a Christian they are wrong in their understanding of the Bible you should do so by way of exegesis.
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11:35 AM on 12/14/2011
"The Bible DOES NOT say that homosexual­ity is morally wrong."

Has your bible been edited?
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iLdoRight
Encouraging The Rightest Rightness
02:11 PM on 12/11/2011
Sorry, my computer got changed in an update and messed me up to a tap and click mode. Restating and continuing; When people who are sympathetic to the homosexual agenda want to co-opt Christianity and change it from what the Scriptures says it is suppose to be I think, "I would feel better about them if they took an attitude similar to the Atheist who say I am not a Christian, but I can appreciate those who are truly doing their best to live up to the values, ideals and principles of "true" Christianity". Is it the right of all citizens to promote their religious values? Is it a right to condemn the philanderer who cheats on his wife, the politician who defrauds the country, the officer who uses his position to do evil, the coach or scout leader who encourages those in their charge to be sexual promiscuous, especially if they want to show the how in a "hands on way"?
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OtayPanky
You're welcome
07:26 PM on 12/13/2011
iLdoRight: Is it the right of all citizens to promote their religious values?

---

Of course it is. And it is equally the right of other citizens to criticize those values when those values are toxic or at odds with the truth we discover from science.

I criticize the Bible because it presents a picture of the godhead in Yahweh that is a picture of a pathological bully doing evil things. That picture has been the inspiration for evil things done in his name and for his supposed glory for the past two millenia.

I criticize the Bible as a deeply flawed religious text, one that includes sublime and lovely thoughts of a good father loving his children right alongside terrifying and violent thoughts that this "father" will destroy utterly any who don't choose to believe in him.

I say these are BAD values, IMMORAL values, EVIL values - bullying values that make our world worse, rather than better. I stand against such values just as I would stand against the bullying values of any terrorists - whether from the right wing or the Arab street.

We don't need nor want terrorism and bullying - from any source - in order for us to find our way in this world. And we certainly don't need people to demonize homosexuality when science shows there is absolutely nothing immoral about it.
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iLdoRight
Encouraging The Rightest Rightness
05:57 PM on 12/18/2011
"OtayPanky" I don't know if your venture into what "the Bible" says started with some sort of bias or if you truly started with an honest curiosity to try to discover if it had an intelligent plan revealed that could lead people to the best possible result for a humane society and the possibility of eternal life and a world brought into an adjustment Our Creator intended it to have or if you were just looking for reasons to support your own ideas and for reasons to discredit it as having any good authority. Matthew 10:16 says Christians should be as innocent as doves. The Scriptures bring people through a barbaric, uncivilized time to the present day where "be harmless as doves" is the recommendation found at Matthew 10:16. If you were the Creator and you saw your creation turn against your good guidance and therefore loose the opportunity for the eternal life you wanted them to have and you didn't want to scrap all them and start over but wanted to walk them through a long educational process where they all could understand why it is so important do do right and in the end have them be in line for eternal life once again how would you do it? I think there is a lot you are missing from the Bible. Google iLdoRight for more.
05:33 AM on 12/29/2011
You make an excellent & valid point, but sadly, a Time magazine poll in the US revealed : 63% of Americans reported that they would hold onto a cherished belief even if it was disproved by science.
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OtayPanky
You're welcome
01:55 PM on 12/14/2011
I'm waiting for your response, if you have the moral courage to offer one.
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iLdoRight
Encouraging The Rightest Rightness
01:53 PM on 12/11/2011
What is the other sides backlash attitude that is the near counter equivalent of homophobia? Would it be "Christianophobia"? When I hear a person say, "I am an Atheist, I don't believe Jesus was, or a God created the heavens and the earth, but I can appreciate many of the values and principles that are promoted in the "Christian Scriptures", I can understand and appreciate their attitude. When people who are sympathetic to the homosexual agenda what to coopt
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bsmithslo
11:52 AM on 12/11/2011
People bully when they are insecure. They attack the things and people that are different. Many of you are doing it here, it's just that oddly here in the religion thread being Christian is what makes you different.

Does anyone here have any evidence that any of the bullies involved attributed their behavior to religion in any way? Were they even Christians?
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trekie70
Lifelong bibliophile and political junkie
08:40 AM on 12/11/2011
Oh, I'm sure those bullies were just practicing their Christian brotherhood. As everyone knows, practice makes perfect.
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bsmithslo
11:44 AM on 12/11/2011
And you know these bullies were Christian because . . .?
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MindyC
It's cold and micro-bio season. Get vaccinated!
10:55 PM on 12/12/2011
The point is not that the bullies were Christian. We don't know if they were or not. The point is that the evangelicals who holler that being gay is an abomination, who INSIST that being gay is a sin, who oppose same-sex marriage - THOSE Christians create a climate in which it is OK to treat LGBT people as if they are "less than." That doesn't mean that all Christians who believe that way are bullies, it simply means that they are complicit in the bigotry that makes that kind of bullying so painfully common. The Christians who believe that all of God's children are deserving of love and companionship and a marriage if they so choose, who believe that being gay has nothing whatsoever to do with the content of one's character and who know that gay people can be Christians, too - those Christians need to speak up on behalf of our LGBT brothers and sisters and take back their religions from the zealots.
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trekie70
Lifelong bibliophile and political junkie
10:54 AM on 12/14/2011
I don't know it for certain but rather have made an educated guess based on events in the last few years-Christians calling for the death of gays, GOTPers opposing legislation to curb gay bullying, Fred Phelps and Co. cheering the death of soldiers as punishment for homosexuality.

Given those facts, what conclusion would you reach?
07:10 AM on 12/10/2011
Please don't blame God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit for the hate filled men and woman who have no love to share even as they attend some Spiritless church or house of something. God is not evil. He leads people to Him. Not destroy them. God loves people who do not love themselves. The Word says God IS LOVE. He does not have some love He IS LOVE. Don't try to change truth for ignorance.
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OtayPanky
You're welcome
09:50 AM on 12/10/2011
bensonwood: Don't try to change truth for ignorance.

---

It sounds to me like this is exactly what you are doing.

"The Word" (your idea, not mine) tells us that your loving God destroyed the world by water, and will later do it again by fire.

"The Word" tells us that your loving God commanded Moses and the Israelites to commit total genocide against the seven tribes living in the so-called "promised land".

And "The Word" tells us that your loving God allowed some angelic being named Satan to destroy the life and family of a man named Job, just to win a bet.

So please don't blame people for quoting your own Biblical texts back at you, to challenge your idea that your God is simply a God of love.

That's not what "The Word" says.
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bsmithslo
04:58 AM on 12/11/2011
Please show me where it says that young boys should bully any one. That's the crux of the argument isn't it? Young boys are killing themselves because the Bible is causing Christians to drive them to it?
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iLdoRight
Encouraging The Rightest Rightness
02:38 PM on 12/11/2011
If you had studied the Bible enough to understand Our Creator's plan to educate his human creation and select form them some to be a part of a group that would eventually tell him honestly either, "Yes we can see the wisdom and the rightness in what you have done and want to do" or "No you were wrong and Satan was right to turn against you". Which do you think is right, do you like all the murders, rapes, thieving and other evils or would you rather see a world without all the evils?
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thebearclaw007
Is your conscience functioning properly?
02:26 PM on 12/11/2011
Fanned!
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crowepps
06:10 AM on 12/10/2011
I disagree that "the root cause of tragedies like the Jacob Rogers story is that strain of Christianity that continues to insist that homosexuality is an evil affront to God." The root cause of these tragedies is the grotesque idea that school students are entitled to harass, mock, belittle and physically attack their fellow students in order to punish them for not conforming to the rigid gender roles in a sectarian religion. Our schools need to stop tolerating religious vigilante groups roaming the halls looking for victims who they suspect might be gay.

Fundamentalist Christians have every right to believe that homosexuality is an evil affront to God. They have every right to deplore the existence of and personally avoid gay people. They have every right to pray fervently to God to punish evil. They have ZERO right to usurp God's role by self-appointing themselves to judge others unworthy or to invade the privacy of others or to disrupt the school in order to make themselves and their peculiar religious beliefs the center of everyone's attention.
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OtayPanky
You're welcome
02:21 PM on 12/11/2011
crowepps: Fundamenta­list Christians have every right to believe that homosexual­ity is an evil affront to God. They have every right to deplore the existence of and personally avoid gay people. They have every right to pray fervently to God to punish evil. They have ZERO right to usurp God's role by self-appoi­nting themselves to judge others unworthy or to invade the privacy of others or to disrupt the school in order to make themselves and their peculiar religious beliefs the center of everyone's attention.

---

The problem here is that the embrace of religious fundamentalism tends to make people suffer from boundary issues. To quote Jake and Elwood Blues, they get the idea in their head that they're on a mission from God - and therefore have a divine duty to get all up inside your bidness and mine.

If only they were content to live and let live, they wouldn't get the strong push back that they are getting from those of us who don't care to drink the Kool-Aid.
10:27 PM on 01/12/2012
But you're doing exactly the same thing. You're right: live and let live, so don't get inside my business. Sodomy is wrong, and I'm entitled to think so. And say so.

You're one of those people with "boundary issues" who tolerates everything but an "intolerant" person. (And pats yourself on the back for doing it.)
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thebearclaw007
Is your conscience functioning properly?
02:27 PM on 12/11/2011
You're right, but don't stop there. The same goes for the rich and the poor and how the races interact as well.
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soma77
Author, Speaker, Retreat Facilitator
03:09 PM on 12/11/2011
Weak Christian leaders believe if they anger a person then they control that person. This thinking is wrong an immoral. God comes, and God goes in the form of pure consciousness. It is not that the pure consciousness is not there, but the awareness is not there. When the heart and the mind become vast, deep and limitless, then Christ makes a heaven in that graceful heart, and pure consciousness and bliss prevails. The experience is recognized as love and peace. Christians and non-Christians have this experience. In the absence of this experience especially among my fellow Christians arrogance, separation and even hatred arises, divisions of every sort fragment the mind and heart. I feel it is the responsibility of our Christian leaders to educate others of this experience, but first they must find it in themselves. Many times it is the ones without the experience of silence that preach the loudest without knowing the inner meaning of the words. http://thinkunity.com
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OtayPanky
You're welcome
10:50 PM on 12/09/2011
Blogger: the root cause of tragedies like the Jacob Rogers story is that strain of Christianity that continues to insist that homosexuality is an evil affront to God.

---

No, it's not about some aberrant "strain of Christianity". Let's review:

There are three branches of Christendom: The Roman Catholic church (by far the biggest), the Orthodox Church, and the various Protestant sects and denominations.

The RC and Orthodox Churches define homosexual behavior as sin, and hve done so since their inception.

Among the Protestants, there are some liberals - but the great bulk, once again, condemn homosexual sex as an intrinsic moral evil.

So this isn't about backwards churchgoers in the Bible Belt. It's the considered opinion of the learned doctors of the universal church - and has been so for the past 2000 years.

The chances of moving this stone are ZERO. It's part of a package deal - just as much a part as the Jesus you worship, or the Holy Spirit you say infuses believers with wisdom and discernment.

Of course, you are free to cherry pick off the Biblical tree. It's one way of resolving the terrible cognitive dissonance you feel reading so much of the Bible. Another way is to engage in this Don Quixote quest, trying to change the minds of two billion "believers".

But the vast majority of Christians simply aren't going to follow you to your "new Christianity", when it comes to the normalization of homosexual sex.
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eddy joe
welcome to the machine
08:18 AM on 12/10/2011
Thank you. All the articles here are trying to rewrite, or reinterpret the bible.
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OtayPanky
You're welcome
08:42 AM on 12/10/2011
Well, you're welcome - but I think you might not be understanding me.

What I am saying is that Christianity is morally flawed - deeply flawed - irretrievably flawed - because of the intrinsic craziness in the core text. What John Shore and others like him are struggling with is the vast gulf between what Christianity is, versus what they wish it could be.

When the foundation of the house is crooked, the house will never be straight and true. When the biblical foundations of the Christian faith include the hatred of a vengeful and capricious god called Yahweh, you just can't end up with anything resembling true morality and ethics.

As the computer geeks like to say, it's GIGO. Garbage In, Garbage Out.

Of course, I don't expect committed followers of the abrahamic religions to give up their religious obsessions en masse. But as people consider the issues deeply and personally, they may become convinced, one at a time, that they've picked a bad pony.
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11:47 AM on 12/10/2011
Did that fly so far over your head that you didn't even hear the whooshing sound?
wacado
Responding to the world as I see it. . .
03:14 PM on 12/12/2011
Right on.
07:22 PM on 12/09/2011
Sir if you actually read the Bible you will quickly find that suspended or erasing one of G-D's moral Ordinances is unthinkable and will lead to the Church's destruction. You cannot say "well this moral ordinance is antiquated, time to pull out the ole eraser". Some, including you, will argue that "well we don't consinder eating pork a sin?" Well you can't compare the "Lesser" Laws of G-D with the "Great" or "Weightier" Laws of G-D. Those are Jesus' Words, not mine. So no matter how hard you try you cannot make the homosexual act unsinful. But on the other hand the homosexual act is on the same level as fornicating outside of marriage and adultery. So while those sins are tolerated, even in the Church (how many people identify themselves as Christians who commit those sins? MANY!) homosexuality is classified as some super sin and homosexuals are persecuted with more vigor. This is also very wrong, the Church should always reach out to everyone but the Church cannot accept the sin, or they cease in being a Church and have became a neo-political-religious club and is good for nothing with regard to spiritual health. http://www.yahwehyeshua.com
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sweetlilthing
hurt no one but tell the truth
05:41 AM on 12/10/2011
This proves my point... a new Christianity rooted in the Bible would still encourage this type of reasoning. Like it or not this type of hate will prevail as long as people choose to follow the Bible.
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thebearclaw007
Is your conscience functioning properly?
02:32 PM on 12/11/2011
Like it or not this type of hate will prevail as long as people choose to follow the Bible.
I would change that phrase a bit: Like it or not, this type of hate will prevail as long as people choose not to follow the greatest two commandments in the Bible: 1. Love God with all your heart, and 2. love others as yourself.
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JDuck
Until we know the equal we'll never feel the free.
10:22 AM on 12/10/2011
"the Church should always reach out to everyone but the Church cannot accept the sin"

What you are really saying is that the Church cannot comprehend the fact that people are born gay.

Face it; your Church is homophobic.
04:16 PM on 12/10/2011
Good luck finding the gay gene, it will never happen. So children are born with sexual awareness, hmmm. That makes NO scientific sense what-so-ever. Children become sexually aware (without no outside influence like TV or the Internet) at the age of 13, 14 or so. The need for sex is rooted in the survival of our species and there is no reproductive result of homosexual sex. Sexual desire has been for sale since the time of the Romans but in the last 20 years it has been treated as much as of commodity as milk and bread. So if you can provide me a scientific analysis of a person born gay then fine but you can't, it is rooted in desire not nature. The Bible teaches us to resist "desire", all forms of lust not just homosexual lust. Educate yourselves within the Bible.
02:16 PM on 12/09/2011
Just another excuse for a writer to blame Christianity. Just a reminder to you and the world there are bullies for ALL people out there in the world no matter what status, age, or situation. They come in all shapes, sizes and ages. You face them in all phases of your life. You have to learn to deal with them. If you don't, they win. Better to learn early. Parents need to teach their kids how to deal with bullies instead of standing behind school rules/laws and making everything illegal. There will always be a bully standing behind a corner.
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eddy joe
welcome to the machine
08:20 AM on 12/10/2011
Well said. It is open season, on christians.
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Cye
09:12 PM on 12/11/2011
Ah yes, the old persecution complex. About 70 to 80% of Americans declare themselves Christians. Yet, somehow we're supposed to believe that Christians are an opressed minonirity.

If you really want to have something to whine about, declare yourself an atheist. Then your persectuion complex might be justified.
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thebearclaw007
Is your conscience functioning properly?
02:34 PM on 12/11/2011
There will always be a bully standing behind a corner. Especially when parents don't teach their children to practice good over evil and right over wrong.
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Nancy Lorieau
11:51 AM on 12/09/2011
I could be wrong because I live in Canada, but I don't think that the majority of self-identified Christians hold the views of these politically right-wing sects that have sprung up in the US in recent years, and this includes the so-called teachings against gays. But, on the other hand, I also don't see representatives from mainstream Christianity acting to counter the right wing's increasingly harsh doctrine. Those of us who are attracted to the teachings of Jesus need to make it clear that, when Jesus' teachings conflict with the Old Testament or with the teaching of the Apostle Paul, it is the teachings of Jesus that must prevail.
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MindyC
It's cold and micro-bio season. Get vaccinated!
04:24 PM on 12/09/2011
Exactly, Nancy - the problem is that the majority of Christians remain silent on the issue, allowing their religion to be co-opted in the name of bigotry. And in their silence, they share the guilt. They MUST start speaking up and standing up for our LGBT brethren. Too many deaths, too much pain.
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sweetlilthing
hurt no one but tell the truth
05:55 AM on 12/10/2011
How will you stand up for your LGBT brethren? Will you allow them to openly serve in the military? Can they marry? Should they have the right to adopt children? If you answer yes and you're a Catholic then you will be in direct opposition to the teachings of the Church. This is especially true now when the Catholic Church is suing for the right to deny Gays adoption rights. In my opinion that's a conflict for Catholics. What's the solution? Be vocal about the bigotry? Change Church policy? Change to a religion that doesn't follow the bible? I'm interested in knowing what you think is the answer if you want to remain a Christian in good standing with your church.
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thebearclaw007
Is your conscience functioning properly?
02:37 PM on 12/11/2011
They will always prevail. They are simply waiting for the people to come into harmony with them and live a better life. But as you can see people are kind of slow getting there. Pray.
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08:29 AM on 12/09/2011
A middle-aged man whose constant companions were 12 other guys and a possible hooker-gone-straight. Sound gay to you? ;-)
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eddy joe
welcome to the machine
08:22 AM on 12/10/2011
You'll get to account for that statement , one day.
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talkstocoyotes
05:03 PM on 02/04/2012
The Creator will probably say "good joke."