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John Shore

John Shore

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No Heaven For You!

Posted: 05/18/11 11:56 AM ET

If you love God, God will reward you for that love by blessing you with an eternity filled with joyous bliss.

If you do not pledge to God your loyalty and fealty, God will punish you by cursing you with an eternity filled with horrendous physical torture.

Die a Christian? Up you go to heaven!

Die a non-Christian? Try to make sure that before it closes shut someone tosses a bag of marshmallows into your coffin. (And then -- what with where you're going -- prepare to never find a stick.)

And don't think it will matter why you died a non-Christian, either. Because it won't. Maybe you were born and raised a Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Native American, Baha'ist. Maybe you were raised by dingoes in the aboriginal wilds. Maybe you decided there is no God, and became an atheist. Maybe you decided you just couldn't decide, and became an agnostic. Maybe you just didn't care all that much, and figured you'd know soon enough anyway so why pick a lane you don't have to?

Yeah, none of that will matter. All that matters is that if you die anything but a Christian, then no heaven for you!

That's what being a Christian boils down to: Be one -- or else!

And that, friends and fellow earthlings, is the Christianity in which so many believe.

And that is the Christianity that's responsible for so many people today leaving church--and for so many others refusing to ever go near a church in the first place.

And that's the Christianity that has just got to go.

"Love me, because I love you. And if you don't love me, I'll torture you forever." What would that be, from the Stalker line of Hallmark cards? What kind of sickness is that? And what kind of unhealthy relationship must it produce?

What sane person wants to be in a relationship they're afraid not to be in?

The model of Christianity upon which that kind of relationship is predicated needs to go the way of the dodo bird, slavery, and blood-letting. God is still talking -- and he's telling an awful lot of us to grow up already, and stop treating him like some big mean Daddy in the sky who'll whip us all real hard forever if we're not good little boys and girls. That's not who God is. That's not how he operates. Those aren't his values.

That kind of Christianity belongs to a mentality that feeds on the fears and resentments of men, not the love and acceptance of God.

That kind of Christianity is mad about naming who exactly is and isn't with it, and why.

That kind of Christianity needs enemies to give it focus and purpose -- and the more enemies it has, the happier it is.

That kind of Christianity swaggers, preens, points, scowls, judges, and with its confident, braying bravado opportunistically and purposefully strikes fear into the hearts of perfectly decent people who want nothing more than to know that, in some real and lasting way, their human frailties are forgiven.

That kind of Christianity revels in pointing an accusatory finger with what it dares declare the hand of God.

Do you know that in the Bible Jesus never says a word about the ultimate fate of anyone who dies a non-Christian? Not once does it come up. We have no idea who does and doesn't get into heaven. None.

Apparently Jesus didn't think that was anything we should be worried about. Apparently he didn't think that what happens to anyone in the afterlife is any of our business.

He sure was clear about how we should live in this life, though, wasn't he? No waffling there, was there?

'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.

There. That's our mission.

That's who God is.

That's who God wants us to be.

 
 
 

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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
nenitaB
Not the talk. What good result would it hav
05:24 AM on 06/02/2011
John Shore's standpoint is simple. He wants us to love God with our heart, mind and soul while here in earth because when we die He'll not be in heaven because there's no heaven ... at all which Christians believe there is. All the good and evil or bad are right here on earth. No matter what faith we believe or embrace , when our life here on earth ends there's no second paradise called 'heaven'. So for John, living a good life here on earth is what matters .
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John Camp
Pastor, teacher, former techie
08:11 PM on 05/23/2011
Do you know that in the Bible Jesus never says a word about the ultimate fate of anyone who dies a non-Christian? Not once does it come up. We have no idea who does and doesn't get into heaven. None.

Shore seemed to miss the parables particularly of the talents, the tenants, the wedding feast; the narrow gate, the repeated mentions of Gehenna and the place of outer darkness, John 14:6, 3:17 and on and on.

Its time someone said it -- Shore espouses non-biblical theology, and worships a God of his own creation, just as surely as if he carved it from stone.
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galanos1
Reality & Life Is Less Then A Second Away
10:06 PM on 05/31/2011
PLEASE TAKE NOTICE
Obtained The Observations Are Of My Own Opinion And Only After Complete And Total Spiritual Awareness And Observation

Their is lot of discussion out and about, concerning the Wrath of God, and hell:
The misunderstanding is, an overwhelming amount of souls believe God Created hell.
This knowledge could not be possible, it is impossible for God to have Created hell.
Yes, God does take “Wrath” upon the sinners and the evil doers as He sees fit.
Each and every soul, individually, create their own hell, by not Repenting of their sins, and asking God for Forgiveness, Grace and Salvation.
When we walk away from the True Light of God, and live a life of sin, and when we fail to Repent and continue a sinful existence, we walk away from the Grace, Salvation, and the Light of God.
We create and fall into our own hell, a reality that exists apart from the Light and Grace of God.
Hell is forever separate from the Light of God.
To claim God created hell is to claim God is a sinner.
Their are two realities God can never commit to.
God can never sin, never. God is sinless; God could not ever have Created the world and reality for our Salvation if God was a sinner.
God will never disrespect our freedom, our free will, never.
12:04 PM on 06/01/2011
Hell is our existance on earth, paying for what we have done, Hell was created by man milienia ago as a tool to scare the ignorant masses into doing good, evil is all around us as good is all around us, we choose the way we take.

Remember Satan is a Fallen Angel, as such he appears as an Angel not some hoofed, horned beast, he will do good to later do a greater evil.

Hitler had an ability to galvanize and lead his people, had he chosen good over evil he would have been a hero, instead he committed unspeakable evil and he and his people paid the price for it.
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chw777
02:02 PM on 05/23/2011
"Hell" is the grave. People who refused Christ as their Lord are destroyed. They cease to exist. Followers of Christ receive eternal life.

That's what the Bible says.
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galanos1
Reality & Life Is Less Then A Second Away
01:07 PM on 06/01/2011
Yes, God does take “Wrath” upon the sinners and the evil doers as He sees fit.
Each and every soul, individually, create their own hell, by not Repenting of their sins, and asking God for Forgiveness, Grace and Salvation.
When we walk away from the True Light of God, and live a life of sin, and when we fail to Repent and continue a sinful existence, we walk away from the Grace, Salvation, and the Light of God.
We create and fall into our own hell, a reality that exists apart from the Light and Grace of God.
Hell is forever separate from the Light of God.
08:00 AM on 05/21/2011
I share your conviction, John.

I’ve come to believe that salvation is a path—a path of loving God and loving your neighbor. In Luke 10, Jesus said, “Do this and you will live”

This path is walked by all the sincere-of-heart in all religions.
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chw777
02:04 PM on 05/23/2011
That would be nice---if salvation are the result of good works. And if that is the case, then Jesus Christ was tortured and crucified for nothing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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galanos1
Reality & Life Is Less Then A Second Away
01:13 PM on 06/01/2011
Unbelievers crucified Jesus. Ungrateful, and full of the love of power.

Read and compare Psalm 22 to Our Lords Last Words On The Cross, you will realize the Meaning, that being Our Lord was reciting the words of King David, hundreds of years prior to Our Lords Birth.

Our Lord was not indicating God had forsaken Him. Our Lord Went to the Cross Willingly to reverse the curse of Adam, and Save us from our sins.
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gal416
is a Bible verse † † †
11:10 PM on 05/20/2011
"Do you know that in the Bible Jesus never says a word about the ultimate fate of anyone who dies a non-Christian? Not once does it come up. We have no idea who does and doesn't get into heaven. None."

You are right, Jesus didn't say anything about the fate of those who didn't believe in Him because He didn't have to. Those who don't believe were and are already condemned.

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
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chw777
02:06 PM on 05/23/2011
John 3:16

For God so loved the world that He sent his only son, that whoever believes in him will have eternal life.

Only those who believe in him will receive eternal life.
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galanos1
Reality & Life Is Less Then A Second Away
10:08 PM on 05/31/2011
PLEASE TAKE NOTICE
Obtained The Observations Are Of My Own Opinion And Only After Complete And Total Spiritual Awareness And Observation
God is Love that endures for ever. Love Everlasting. Opposed to evil, and damnation, that flows from a sinful earthly existence that man creates and refuses to acknowledge, and replace with the Grace And Love of God.
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jf12
Occupying myself
09:38 PM on 05/20/2011
One Bible-centric approach to this question is to look at 1 Timothy. Compare the use of "specially" in these verses.
1 Tim 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
1 Tim 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

Who are "his own" who are not "of his own house", for which a man MUST provide? Those same, in kind or quantity (who and how many others outside the family did your daddy support?), are the possibly saved non-Christians.
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gal416
is a Bible verse † † †
10:05 PM on 05/20/2011
In 1Timothy 4:10 the apostle Paul is saying that God is the Savior of all men but not all men will choose him to be their Savior. Jesus came into this world to save everyone, but there are many who will not be saved because they deny Him.

In 1Timothy 5:8 you must look at this verse in the context in which it is written. In the previous verses the apostle Paul was talking about taking care of the widows in the church and he concludes by saying, and I'm paraphrasing, that if you take care of your own family and not those in the church who need help the most, you are faithless.
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jf12
Occupying myself
08:37 AM on 05/21/2011
Yes, I didn't preface enough. Many attempted arguments for "all dogs go to heaven" use 1 Tim 4:10 as an example of gray-area salvation. I was trying to show concisely that whatever gray there may be is is much smaller than they would like. I'm pretty sure they would also agree that Jesus said He would prefer them to be black or white, and not gray.
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galanos1
Reality & Life Is Less Then A Second Away
10:10 PM on 05/31/2011
PLEASE TAKE NOTICE
Obtained The Observations Are Of My Own Opinion And Only After Complete And Total Spiritual Awareness And Observation
Only a few of us break away from ignorance, and start to understand God’s Love for us. Some of us flatly refuse to believe in God’s Love altogether, because we want to continue a sinful earthly existence.
How convenient!
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gal416
is a Bible verse † † †
09:04 PM on 05/20/2011
"What sane person wants to be in a relationship they're afraid not to be in?"

I came to know Jesus, not out of fear , but because I finally realized that He is the way, the truth, and the life. The way, because He is not just the person who shows the way, but He, personally is the way. No church ceremony can bring you to God. He is the way. The truth, because in this world there is so much uncertainty, speculation, and outright lies, that I find peace in Him because He is the truth. He isn't saying that He tells the truth, although He does do that. He is the truth! The life, because He is the source of life both physical and spiritual.
Jesus said,"No man cometh unto the Father but by me." That may sound awfully dogmatic, and not all dogmatism is truth--there is a lot of ignorance that masquerades as truth. However, that which is true, has to be dogmatic.
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galanos1
Reality & Life Is Less Then A Second Away
10:12 PM on 05/31/2011
PLEASE TAKE NOTICE
Obtained The Observations Are Of My Own Opinion And Only After Complete And Total Spiritual Awareness And Observation

To Believe In God, we must understand God Created a Glorious and Endless “Well”, Filled with Glory and Love, an Endless Fountain, Filled with Grace for Our Salvation.

To Believe In God, We must diminish every ridiculous thought that we are alone. God’s Love is Eternal and always present in our Life, whether we chose to Love God or not.
To Believe In God, is to understand that we will “Not”; go to the grave in darkness with our souls.
To Believe In God, is to understand Life is not some sort of chemical reaction, feeling, or dream.
To Believe In God, is to Rejoice in the Glory of an immediate Everlasting Existence with Our Lord Jesus.
To Believe In God, is to Believe our present Creation, the stars, the planets, and everything and as far as we can see with our eyes, is one of the “Infinite” Creations, Created for our Salvation, By and Through God.
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iLdoRight
Encouraging The Rightest Rightness
02:56 PM on 05/20/2011
There is a lot written in the Bible that any can make use of in finding the answer to the Question; Why does God want some humans to come to Heaven and why would you not want certain types to go there. Clues; Would you want a person who does not speak your language teaching your children to speak your language? Would you want a sexual predator teaching your children? If you were going to put yourself on trial would you want a jury of your peers to see all the evidence that would find you not guilty? To see how you can help correct a maligning that has happened to Our Creator please visit the link below.

http://www.truechristianityevangelism.org/hell.html
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galanos1
Reality & Life Is Less Then A Second Away
10:14 PM on 05/31/2011
PLEASE TAKE NOTICE
Obtained The Observations Are Of My Own Opinion And Only After Complete And Total Spiritual Awareness And Observation

We experience abandonment only when our Faith diminishes; the required amount of Faith toward Loving God is 0. God never Abandons us; we abandon God, and sin more than a thousand times a day. We betray Jesus.
The solutions toward our feelings are easily resolved with constant Prayer, when we knowingly and willingly abandon Prayer toward Our Lord Jesus, we loose communication with our savoir, and fall victims to sin.
If our Souls are not able to visually see the suns rays, does not mean the sun does not exist. {Emphases added;}
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William D Simpson
10:28 AM on 05/20/2011
John, you too have need of wisdom.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGm9G8qXjn0
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John Shore
Author of "UNFAIR"
11:42 AM on 05/20/2011
William, you too have need of not being so condescending.
06:52 PM on 05/19/2011
It's not exactly true that Jesus never discussed the types of people who would end up in hell (unless they repented and trusted in Him for salvation). From the Gospel of Matthew alone, we can see the following "risk factors" -- baseless anger (5:22), insulting others (5:22), failure to acknowledge Jesus as Messiah (11:23), hypocrisy (23:15). Jesus' message in the Gospels is very clear: we are condemned to hell for our actions, but also for our thoughts ("...whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.")

The gospel message remains clear, if painful: we are corrupted sinners, every one of us, and unable to rescue ourselves from the penalty that we deserve. Salvation has two pre-requisites: repentance (recognition that God is a moral being Whom we have offended by our immoral thoughts and unethical actions), and acceptance of the fact that Christ paid our penalty on the cross.
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OuterBanx North12
Now with 33% MORE caffeine!
09:27 AM on 05/20/2011
so in other words, believe in Jesus or fry forever.

what a great philosphy!
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chw777
02:07 PM on 05/23/2011
It's not a philosophy, it is simple fact.
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JDuck
Until we know the equal we'll never feel the free.
11:53 AM on 05/20/2011
Chaplain, respectfully, your portrayal of your god is why I will never be Christian.

You paint an ugly picture of your god and your faith where being born human is the LAST thing you want to be. Being born human means God finds you disgusting, useless, worthless and wants nothing to do with you unless you promise to love it and do what it says. Failure to do so will mean your life and your soul are useless and you are damned to hell, forever.

I find such a view to not only be absolutely callous and incredibley ugly but complete wrong.

Why would anyone want to view themselves in such a way? Why would anyone want to 'love' a god who has no need or want of you otherwise? Coupled with being born gay and your god's disgust is incomprehensible where your defense of it heartless and cold. For me to be a Christian would mean I would only be doing so out of sense of not being loved and terrorfied of going to hell.

That is NO way to view one's self or live your life. EVER. I am not interested in your god or you religion for your gospel is one of condemnation and damnation. I have no need for any of it.

Yet, the true travesty here is you, like so many others, simply refuse to hear any of what I just said. Thus, you not only fail, but you fail those you believe are damned.
01:08 PM on 05/20/2011
I hear exactly what you just said. I believed just as you did for most of my life. But as I got older, and I recognized just how much damage I was doing to the people around me every day, I knew that I'd never balance the karmic debt that I'd incurred. For someone as thorougly antisocial and self-centered as I was (and am), the message that someone else had already paid the penalty for my wrongdoing was such a blessing.

Nobody goes to hell for believing in the wrong religion (or none at all). I know that I personally had earned every bit of hellfire that I'd've received. I was guilty of a thousand acts of cruelty and thoughtlessness. The gospel is simply that God loves us enough to have created a way for us to escape from the consequences of our actions.

The cruelest curse in the whole world is "May you get exactly what you deserve." Assuming that there is a God, and that s/he is a moral being who will judge us on our thoughts and actions, then I am hardly failing "those [I] believe are damned" by giving them the message of hope and release and salvation.
02:42 PM on 05/19/2011
It was a déjà vu moment because just this morning my co-worker said it was wrong to use anything by the Crees because they are pagan. Our conversation leads me to believe that although some Christians can reel off verses of the Bible they still miss the spirit of the God’s Law.

In general, Jesus identified the fate of those who would choose the broad road to destruction or the narrow road to life. You can get off either road anytime you like because Jesus said at Matthew 24:13 “He that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved” He didn't indicate the ultimate fate since he knows how conflicted (changing our minds often) we are when depressed, sick, discouraged, mean and arrogant when we have power, and immune when we feel secure.

However in my mind, a wonderful window of opportunity extended by God to us in the promise at Acts 24: 15 “..that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.” This is where the spirit of the Law applies, where God will decides who lives or dies eternally. If we say we love God then it means obedience to his laws but more importantly living the spirit of the Law as outlined at Galatians 5:22. We need to stop judging people but instead think about how we affect people who want to love God but are stumbled by the inconsiderate works of self-righteous Christians
02:30 PM on 05/19/2011
"but whosoever shall say, 'you fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.' "
12:47 PM on 05/19/2011
*A co-dependent relationship does not make for a true relationship with God.*

Unfortunately many "Christians" today, the Bible literalists, want us to believe that this is the kind of relationship we MUST have with God in order to have a validated relationship that will land us in Heaven. "God NEEDS us, and more importantly, we NEED God." And if we don't have each other, the world goes back to being flat, and only TRUE Christians get to go to Heaven, haven't you heard? Of course only "they", the "TRUE Christians", the ones who beat you over the head with their Bibles, are the ones who get to decide who has THAT REAL relationship with God and who goes to Heaven...and, oh, by the way, whether or not the world is flat and if we have climate change...or not. The *illusive* question is, "What makes a TRUE Christian?" They keep changing the rules...to their benefit and to their advantage.

I refrain to my first sentence, my first point.
06:03 PM on 05/19/2011
We need God but God defintely does not need us. It is very unlikely that any human will run a business without rules and regulations so whether we like it or not things are going to to God's way. We all have the choice to jump in with him or refuse. Just don't think you will be hired when you break the rules. What makes a true follower of God is to obey Him. The only book that gives us those instructions is the bible which everyone can read for themselves.
07:21 PM on 05/19/2011
I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree on your first statement, probably one more as well. I think we have far-reaching ideological differences. First off I believe God created Adam because He DID need us, because He WAS lonely and needed humans in order to FEEL His emotions through us & with us. This is One reason Jesus was made flesh, to relate to, with us. Yes, He needed us. Furthermore, I believe in a God who is loving, forgiving, full of Grace. He foresaw in the Old Testament it wasn't going to work out and made preparation called "Jesus". This Man would introduce Grace so abundantly that the word "obey" would become obsolete by the means that OT Law, judgment and punishment would become totally and completely non-existent in the Kingdom of God. This took place in the New Testament. All that we do is by "free will" and God recognizes that. We do not come to Him out of obedience, we come to Him out of free will and the sheer desire to SHARE with Him. The relationship is a reciprocal one, not, as I stated, a co-dependent one. God doesn't "hire" us, we aren't paid employees. Jesus calls us his friends. He freely LOVES us. And he tells us that if we love him, we will automatically follow his ways. God's grace is so abundant our human minds cannot fathom it. And that is what is causing the divide in The Church today.
12:18 PM on 05/19/2011
"That kind of Christianity belongs to a mentality that feeds on the fears and resentments of men, not the love and acceptance of God."

John, doesn't the entire notion of a "god" feed on the fears and resentments of men (even more so to women and children)?

What would social order be if we just focused on the love and acceptance of each other? Not for reward in a mythical kingdom brought about by fears and insecurities, but for tangible rewards, right here, right now brought about by the need/desire for hospitality, security, comfort and personal growth.

People who attach those desirable outcomes to a god presume they do not exist without a god. Those who do are in denial and content to live in fear. That is a shame.
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TheWM
aka The Wrong Monkey
01:10 PM on 05/19/2011
"What would social order be if we just focused on the love and acceptance of each other?"

Kurt Vonnegut, in one of his wonderful prefaces to his novels, had a slightly different suggestion when it came to societal attitudes: less love, more common decency. He didn't have anything at all against love, he just thought that it was sort of unrealistic to ask everyone to love everyone else. Common decency, he saw that as a much more realistic goal, which would still be a huge improvement over the general state of actual reality.

Very smart guy.
02:20 PM on 05/19/2011
Excellent comment. I was playing verbatim on redirecting his chosen words, but you've even taken it another step to improve the words. Common decency (without god) - what a concept!
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JDuck
Until we know the equal we'll never feel the free.
12:12 PM on 05/19/2011
Kindly, I think y'all are completely missing the point.

As an 'outsider' so to speak, (that would be non-Christian to y'all) I see alot of screaming and anger about who has the more accurate veiw of god.

Is that what this is all about?

Is that the real concern?

I mean, really?

Personally, y'all make this non-Christian glad to never to have been one.

I could care one flying fig about the bible and how it is interpreted. It is actions that speak louder than words. And the actions of many a Christian makes it clear that fighting over the words is more inportant than what is REALLY more important:

Kindness.

I've read your bible. It is the #1 reason I am not Christian. Waaay too much anger, bloodshed, death, destruction, genocide, rape, revenge, wrath and other assorted ugliness. In a word: it is ugly.

I dont think that is the way god wants to be portrayed. But then again I dont think god cares how he is protratyed.

God cares about how we treat one another.

On that humanity has generaly for generations missed the mark on that one. BIG time.

I dont think god wants us to beat each other to death over a collection of fragmented texts and what they supposedly say and dont say.

I just think god would like for us to remember one thing: You are loved.

That's it.

Can we not at least treat each other in such a manner...?