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Hell No: P.U.M.A. Spokesman Will Bower on Post-Clinton Party Unity
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Ant-Democratic Primary, Bower Just Say No Deal, Bower P.U.M.A., Bower Puma, Clinton, Clinton Anger, Clinton Obama, Clinton Supporters Anger, Just Say No Deal, Party Unity My Ass, Senator Clinton, Senator Opama, Will Bower, Will Bower Party Unity,
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Will Bower is spokesperson for P.U.M.A., which stands for "party unity my ass," an organization he founded and launched on Facebook and that is made up largely of Hillary Clinton supporters. P.U.M.A. is now part of the larger Just Say No Deal coalition of groups that coalesced after Clinton officially suspended her campaign and that are united in their opposition to the candidacy of Barack Obama.
Bower is a contributor to OffTheBus and was an administrator for the main Hillary Clinton Facebook group, "Hillary Clinton for President; One Million Strong." In February, Bower, who says he is "obsessive-compulsive" about how the "mathematics of election systems reflect democracy," wrote a brief opinion piece at Newsvine on the "seriously flawed [Democratic Party primary] system, which is just not proportional," arguing that the superdelegates should right the process by declaring for Clinton.
In the weeks since he founded PUMA and became one of the Just Say No Deal coalition spokespeople, Bower has become an intermittent guest on the major cable news networks, talking on the anger felt by the people he represents and on the coalition's motivations and plans. Together with a group of roughly 70 P.U.M.A. voters, Bower met last week with Senator John McCain, which he characterized on Fox News as very "reassuring." OffTheBus spoke with Bower this past week.
So how did you come to be spokesperson for P.U.M.A. and Just Say No Deal?
It was series of things... I was the administrator for the Clinton Facebook page, and it was a very popular group. It had 27,000 members when I was there -- and, you know, that's a lot of people for a Facebook group, even now. So people knew me from that....
Then I went to the DNC Rules and Bylaws meeting. I met Harriet Christian there and met people from [the pro-Hillary group] HireHeels.com. Of course I wrote about that night for the Huffington Post, on Harriet, basically, and that was huge. The piece garnered a lot of readers. The Hillary supporters who read it knew I understood what they were feeling. Diane Mantouvalos from HireHeels was one of them, now a fellow spokesperson of the Just Say No Deal coalition.
I also started The P.U.M.A. Facebook group. The puma icon and the slogan -- "party unity my ass" -- I just loved it. It was the shot heard around Facebook. I remember thinking, yes, absolutely. This is our call to arms. This is our mascot.
Then came the article in The National and then we launched the coalition.... It's amazing. Now I'm basically -- I don't sleep anymore; it's been wild. My phone is just attached to me. I'm up always. It's been the most invigorating time of my life.
But Ok... What's the goal, exactly? The main objective? Is it to get Clinton the nomination or to defeat Obama or...
Well the coalition is diverse. I can't speak for everyone. Some will certainly be voting for McCain and are advocating that route. Others will write-in Hillary. Some will vote for third party candidates. But all the groups are very much united in not voting for Obama. The diverse groups are getting along. The number one rule is that no P.U.M.A. voter will cast a ballot for Obama, presently. If he has Hillary as vice president, well then each P.U.M.A. voter, of course, will make that decision.
Many, like myself, want to see a McCain-Clinton ticket, which would be as politically radical as F.D.R.-- It would be a true crack in the system, real change...
So wait. Let's backtrack. Hillary is an incredibly strong Democrat. To many, she's a symbol even, a representation of the Democratic Party, or at least a certain Democratic Party platform... Were you an official member of her campaign?
No, I wasn't. But, as I said, I was the administrator of the main Hillary Clinton Facebook group. That's a major contribution, I think.... It's such a powerful medium. There are so many intelligent and politically minded young people [who use it] and they come together around the candidate or around a cause. It builds person by person... It's an incredible organizing and support-building tool. [The group members] all saw the Harriet Christian video, for instance. They admired her ferocity -- and I was part of that and that gave me credibility with a lot of people in no time.
But you're a Democrat...
Oh absolutely. People have been trying to paint this as a Trojan horse, you know, as though I'm a Republican, that this is a Republican strategy... No, that's not it at all. From dog-catcher to president, I've voted Democrat. I'm all Democrat. I was a youth volunteer for Dukakis. I protested in 2000 -- was absolutely out on the streets in L.A. for the Bush-Gore decision. I was a volunteer for Wesley Clark.
Yes, but then wasn't being a Hillary supporter mostly about endorsing her political philosophy and her policy agenda, which was nearly identical to Obama's? Wouldn't supporting McCain be the worst thing that could come of this, if you were to ask Hillary Clinton? I mean, after all the work on the trail and in the senate, her whole adult life?
You know, we're talking about policy, that's the question, but the biggest policy is the democratic process itself. The election of 2000 was a travesty.... Who will hold the Democratic Party responsible, this time, for this deeply flawed primary process? If we vote for Obama, that anti-democratic process -- where party officials decided early in the process, based on rules and exceptions to the rules, who they wanted to win -- then that anti-democratic process will be validated, which is, to my mind, the worst thing that can happen. I believe that if I were a Republican in 2000, I would have felt the same way: better Bush is defeated than the democratic process itself in the U.S. is defeated. We've reached a turning point.
Hillary had the fighting spirit. That's what we were in support of more than any one policy. We admired that and we're taking that forward...
More than any policy...
You know, she was a fighter in this campaign. That's what inspired so many people. And we're taking up the fight. We're not going to quit. We're going to fight. That's the message, for us, of her campaign.
But now it's weeks later, after the endorsement, the Clinton-Obama plans to campaign together and so on -- is there any change in the coalition, would you say, in the feelings of the group or its membership...?
The first P.U.M.A.s were solidly Democrats and solidly against Obama. But now we're definitely starting to pull Ron Paul supporters, for example. It's only the second-week of P.U.M.A.'s existence and it's gathering new momentum... Much depends on Denver.
The soil is just so fertile for political realignment. So if anything could happen, now is the time. Look at where we are at: the Republicans have spent eight years ruining their party. It doesn't stand for anything anymore... I can see the P.U.M.A. voting bloc becoming a watchdog party keeping both sides honest. We can become a significant force.
I'll tell you this. This has been an explosion. Change comes from anger. There has been anger building for months. Where does all that energy from her campaign go? The Clinton supporter-community of thousands and thousands of people, they no longer feel a part of the DNC. They feel betrayed. The P.U.M.A. voters, the coalition voters, are a splinter party. This is how that happens. Ralph Nader? Ross Perot? Where was the anger? No political movement has ever had any sway without anger. Call it what you want. Sour grapes, sore losers... but I can tell you it's real and it's valid and it's the kind of anger that makes change.
John Kerry didn't win the last election. I knew he would lose. I worked for Wesley Clark because I will go to my grave believing he would have defeated Bush, that he was the stronger nominee. But Kerry won the nomination fair and square. I didn't agree but I went with it. This is different. This was an unfair process, anti-democratic.
Bower On MSNBC
On FOX
Interview "conducted, condensed and edited" by John Tomasic.
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Will Bower a Democrat? Come on, even Jay Leno couldn't say that with out breaking up and apologizing.
Let he and his ilk remain as Repuglickin' jokes, let's move on get to the real substance of the election. We don't need Conservapedia contributin', Intelligent Design promotin', koolaid drinkin' Repuglickin' fools in the tent. They should go where they belong, to the "rotting carcass of a political party, with zombie- like leaders staggering around".
This is amazing. I am an African American male and Bower has expressed my exact feelings about the PROCESS the DNC and the media used to SELECT Obama. I could have supported Obama had it been done the right way. Call me old fashion, but I strongly believe it is more important how you do something than what you do. The end does not justify the means. I would still love to vote for the Democratic nominee. However, Obama and the Party have a lot of repair to do before I can with a good conscious do that. I am hopeful that we will have a super majority of Democrats in congress, but as it stands now, McCain is my choice for President even though I am more aligned with Democratic Party Platform.
Will,
Thanks for standing up and making it possible for Americans to have a choice about what happens to their country.
Just Say No Deal!
Just call yourself a republican and be done with it!
http://nop
Chrisbee - That is an interesting site, but did you know that Obama is biracial? And that is generally considered to be an asset. Lose the racial stuff. Obama manipulates sexism and racism as it suites his own purpose.
Go Will Bower!!!! You are genius.
Go PUMAs!!!!
genius!
http://nop
Please!!!! Why dont we have a spokesman from Ron Paul's campaign! Thats where the real division is!! PUMA....Pa
Anyone else wanna join...thi
This guy and his group need their 15 minutes. Unfortunately, the long primary has spawned this kind of thinking. These are the reasons why it looks like democrats always shoot themselves.
These Democrats are speaking up about the train comming down the track, BEFORE it hits. The Democrats have been losing because they have picked the wrong candidate within a divided party and coerced dissenters to accept them in the name of Party Unity. They are not listening to their own party.
Get off the track!
Hillary could have run in '04. She would have won (easily). Right now she would be our president. Obama would have remained a relative unknown. The FACT is she didn't run. She blew what was a golden opportunity for herself and our nation. And Hillary ALONE is to blame for that. She won't be our president because SHE made some REALLY BAD choices.
Had she run in '04, we wouldn't have had the last 4 years of Bush/Cheney. Think of how much better off we would all be.
Thanks (for nothing) Hillary.
All of PUMA's inane and boring drivel is meaningless.
shut up.
The Democratic Nomination is scheduled for the official vote at the DNC August 26, 2008. As more and more information comes to ight about the presumptive nominee, American Voters get more and more alarmed. The nominee currently selected by the DNC does not stand up to scrutiny. And the GOP has not even started to release and disseminate what they know to the general public. When you see a train comming down the track towards you, you shoud get off that track.
Find out. Speak up.
JustSayNoD
Go ahead, who cares.
My Chicago Bear is going to kick your PUMA ass.
Sounds like a good way to lose.
OK, I want to know where all of the whining about the flawed democratic process was when it looked as if Hillary was just going to be anointed the candidate rather than having to fight for the position. I'm not about to apologize for Hillary losing as she voted many, many times in ways that were nothing more than political calculus as she tried to shift to the right in order to be more appealing to the rightists in this country. The vote for the war in Iraq, which unlike John Edwards she has never gotten around to apologizing for, in my view made her 100% flawed from the beginning. If you want Bush III, go right ahead. Another two years here and I'm ready to head back to Europe and the many fools in this country can learn about reality the hard way. Your economy is a debt bomb that is slowly going off, your energy policies are an absolute joke, your international standing has never been lower in my lifetime, your stance on global climate change is beyond belief. And you'd wish for more of that since Hillary lost the election under rules she clearly understood before she started? Insane. Cheers mates!
I say F*ck 'Em. If they want to split the party and go their own way then more power to them. We don't need their sour grapes. Maybe the Puma's shouldn't be in the party anymore. Maybe they should go their own way. If they can't handle the fact that their candidate who had every advantage lost to a younger, better organized and more nimble rival then screw them. Obama didn't win the nomination on his own. He could only win if Hillary screwed up. And she screwed up major on several occasions. If the Puma's can't get it through their head that instead of whining and moaning and fingerpointing at Obama and the party the only person they have to blame for Hillary's failure is her Imperial Majesty, Hillary Rodham Clinton.
These people are spineless. Really! If they don't like the system why didn't they talk with H. Ickey. Who MADE the rules. Now, they think the system needs to be changed. They are making it worse for Clinton.
I for one think Obama has done ENOUGH for her supporters. He does not need to beg her or her supporters. If he goes too far, I may not vote for him. And he wants to help with her debt? Really? What incentive do I have to donate to idiots like this?
He's already ahead. The only reason I would donate is because he asked me too but keep pushing me and I may have to back out!
These people talk about their anger? Come on what about my anger? Everytime I turn around we have to hear about their feelings. Well what about the fact that the MOST damaging lie about my candidate was put out by HRC camp.
Ditto!
Why were they so crazy about her voting record?
Iraq
Kyle Lierberman
Cluster Bombs
Bankruptcy Bill
just to name a few. the woman votes like a Repugnican. My Repugnican Senator Gordon Smith (with the ad 'co-starring Obama) votes more Progressively than Clinton. I don't get it?
For one thing, she votes. Her job as a Senator is to represent her constituency. Obama has no substancial voting record to even evaluate because he has been in the Senate such a short time. He talks about his positions but does not hold to them.
He needs to show America who he is before he expects Americans to vote for him. Talk doesn't get it. He has already double-played it too much.
I was surprised that Bower got media time; they must not have looked at his website. I checked it out, and now I look at it , just for a laugh. Believe it or not, there are lots of photos of CATS (what message is that, exactly?) and a few posters all saying tood night to each other. Their reason for existing is somehow lost in the inanity of it all.
The puma is a cat....may
It's also a shoe worn during the 80's by hip hop musician (ex. beastie boys, L.L Cool J., Run DMC). (chuckle)
JustSayNo Deal.com is a Coalition of numerous web sites and blogs about PUMA. Please visit these and see for yourself. We are not limited to the main stream media that feeds you what they want you to know. Find out. Deside for Yourself!
I'll pass. NOQUARTER is one of the most ruthless UNTRUE sites out there. Larry Johnson is your new jesus
It's amazing how often PUMAs mention losing an election again as a reason they are anti-Obama. Talk about projection. The people who ran HRC's campaign were all the royalty of the Democratic party, who came in with Bill Clinton and have helped us lose every election since by down playing progressiveness and going middle of the road on every issue. Dean has been championing a new way- going back into every state developing the grass roots, and I think he is right. It is re-building the Democratic Party at a crucial time. I am becoming a proud Democrat again, after calling myself Liberal instead for years.
Meanwhile the media will put PUMA out there every chance they get- just because it is so meaningless. By the way Lu4PUMA, if you want to know about Obama- which you do not seem to, go to his website!
Actually, IF the PUK MAs wanted a Dem win they should support Obama who is leading and still gaining in every poll. So support a winner picked by the system they RECENTLY decided they abhor because it didn't go to the establishment candidate.
Actually, Obama and McCain have been TIED consistently for a long time. Right now they are at 44% each.
Obama has made more mistakes this week alone than any regular candidate would in an entire election season!!! He is a liability.
I been there and reviewed it . The problem is that the only Change he actually accomplished is to to his own position on too many significant issues. I hear that his "grassroots" contributions are under investigation. That should be interesting. Why doesn't he post it at his site?
"It was series of things... I was the administrator for the Clinton Facebook page, and it was a very popular group. It had 27,000 members when I was there -- and, you know, that's a lot of people for a Facebook group, even now."
I guess he never looked at Obama's Facebook..
Now..... "that" is a lot of peeps!!!!
I believe the truth is Bower needs this so-called cause to feel alive or important. He needs to get a life. Exactly what wrong was done to Clnton? The rules were in place when she chose to participate in the process. She lost fair and square. I do believe she helped start these ridiculous assumptions by things she said during the primary. It's sad that some of her people did not choose to research, nor look at the facts.
If one is lucky enough to be chosen, and chooses to go into the NFL, NBA, PGA, MLB or whatever, they cannot decide to change the rules when they realize they are losing.
If these people were really people of principle, they would not be willing to sell our country down the pike, out of spite. This election will impact our country for years come. It will affect my grandchildren and generations not yet born.
i will pray for them, because they are truly lost.
what wrong was done to Clinton?
She got less votes
She got fewer pledged delegates
She got fewer super delegates
She lost MORE contests
She raised less money
She was out campaigned
She LOST!
It was, afterall, her turn
Didn't you know? It was her turn.
She got more popular votes.
She won the state with the electorial votes needed to win the presidential election.
The Superdelegates are only 36% female, even though the Democratic Party is 54% femal.
Obamas primary campaign contributions are under investigation.
America will lose without her.
Reactions like this are the reason why it's always a bad idea to appeal to the politics of resentment. Yes, it's cheap and easy to get folks riled up, and if you need a get motivated supporters in a hurry, this is often the fastest means.
The problem is that once you've fired up your supporters' resentment, retreat becomes impossible--no victory can be complete enough to assuage their rage. Short of total war, every other resolution involves some form of compromise. If your followers are too caught up in the 'we were wronged and we're angry!' story, they'll refuse to follow. A leader who persists runs the real risk of having their followers turn on them as a traitor for daring to compromise. History is filled with cases in which the leader of causes which had been playing the politics of resent gets shot by their newly dissaffected followers. Michael Collins, Mohandas Gandhi and Yitzak Rabin are but three.
None of Hillary's supporteres are going to assasinate her over this, but refusal of some followers to join a rapprochement with the balance of the democratic party is the same process in action.
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