Part 2:
I think it's up to those born in this time to self define. O bama quote seen in the Atlantic:
"I think there's no doubt that we represent the kind of change that Senator Cl inton can't deliver on and part of it is generational. Senator Cl inton and others, they've been fighting some of the same fights since the '60's and it makes it very difficult for them to bring the country together to get things done."
doesn't sound like he defines himself as a boomer.
My feeling is if you were more edgy or radical you may have more in common with Gen X, if you were more culturally conservative or middle of the road, then you're probably more in line with Generation Jones. It's a fuzzy area. I do have that generation Jones feeling of having missed out on something.
Many of my peers felt a generation was an invalid concept- people varied and this was just an artificial way to group a large segment of the population. There was no real consciousness of "we" at the time, as you'll find in Boomers and Millenials. There obviously are all types of mind-sets in every generation, but there are certain common cultural experiences that might cause similarities.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bennet-kelley/obama-and-generation-jone_b_98444.html
Jeff Gordenier gen x-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPdEgwOsvDk&feature=PlayList&p=D7BBF2D05A826044&index=1
elsewhere he talks about O bama as being "our people".
The End of Boomerism as We Know It
Watching Tuesday's twists and turns in the Democratic presidential nomination contest reminds one of a prize fight where, in the midst of the 15th and final round, all of a sudden one of the candidates lands a knock-out punch. In this political race, of course, it was Barack Obama throwing the punch, but he must campaign on knowing his was only a technical knock-out over Hillary Clinton.
And no one knows technicalities better than the Clintons.
Obama has -- technically -- won enough delegates to claim the nomination, but Clinton has staggered up off the mat -- again -- claiming she has enough of what it takes to carry on the fight.
Is she punch drunk?
By every practical measurement, the race is (and has been) over, but technically, Obama is not the nominee until the delegates gather in Denver in August and actually cast their votes. Clinton staggers on, hanging onto this nano-thread of justification.
So, as newly-minted presumptive Democratic nominee Barack Obama turns his gun sights on the general election and presumptive Republican nominee John McCain, it is appropriate for the rest of us to stop and take a brief look back at this epic Democratic battle.
In hindsight, I think the Clinton campaign was really over the day once-vaunted Clinton advisor Mark Penn wrote his "inevitability" memo. Running with that theme, Hillary herself told several news outlets last fall, months before the first ballots were cast, that she was so sure she was going to win the nomination that she had never -- never -- even considered a world where she would not.
But that world soon delivered her a shocking double-fisted wake-up call that she and her advisors should both have been able to anticipate. First, Iowans let her know they do not like to be told who they are going to vote for. Second, 68% of Iowa Democrats told us they were angry with the political system, in part as demonstrated by such arrogance as was exhibited by Clinton's self-claim of "inevitability." While there were victories and votes along the way, Clinton could not represent the change that, ultimately, voters wanted. She didn't realize -- or refused to believe -- what the nation had long been telling me and other pollsters: that Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton just was not going to work.
The Clintons are prototypical Baby Boomers -- committed to ideals of peace and justice but overwhelmed with themselves. They (we, because I was born in 1948) are consumed with being the center of attention, the bride and groom at every wedding, so much so, that the ends don't simply justify the means, they are one and the same. Getting elected is the game, the final goal, the definition of self-worth. In his recent book, former White House spokesman Scott McClellan decried the mentality of "the permanent campaign" that he said permeated the White House of George W. Bush (the other Boomer president), which in some respects mirrors the Clinton behavior.
Sad to say, Bill Clinton became best known for the hallmarks of Boomerism -- self-centeredness and permanent adolescence -- as exhibited by the Lewinsky affair and all the other, lesser controversies and scandals.
The obsessions and legacy of the Clintons led to what the American voters thought was their antidote -- the election of Bush, the boy who woke up and discovered he was president. Of course, they were wrong.
Bush's exemplification of permanent adolescence could be seen almost immediately. The big new story out of the White House in early 2001 was his penchant to award everyone with childish nicknames, but there were other indications. Then, discussing the threat of Iraq in 2002, Bush said "After all, this is the guy who tried to kill my dad."
We soon discovered that loyalty and clubbishness trumped experience and judgment, and an inability to admit mistakes destroyed credibility around the globe and three decades of Republican prestige in handling foreign policy. All the credit that the GOP earned through Richard Nixon's efforts with China and Ronald Reagan's tactics to successfully unravel the Soviet Union from within has been lost by the inflexible, inward-looking approach in dealing with Iraq and, now, Iran.
After 16 years, Americans have finally declared, state by state, caucus by caucus, primary by primary, that they have had enough of the Boomer generation in the White House.
In the final analysis, Hillary Clinton is smart, charming -- and the wrong person for the times. Voters have moved beyond Boomerism. Now, Americans will choose between an older version of duty, honor, glory, and a return to the American Century vs. a new vision of global pluralism, diversity, change, and youthful vigor.
Is Boomer Power gone forever? It is impossible right now to say one way or the other, but one thing we do know is that it has, at least, suffered a serious setback.
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Part 1:
I can speak to the question of whether or not B.O. is a boomer if we're going to use these categories. I was born in 1961 and we are NOT boomers. Considering everyone born within 46-64 a boomer is an inadequate analysis. someone born in 1961 came of age during a COMPLETELY different time with different cultural,social and economic influences.
demographics alone don't make a generation. When I was in my 20's we entered the R eagan years- I was going to hardcore punk shows. How does put me in the same group as the Woodstock era folks? It doesn't.
We were never considered boomers. Commonly "boomer" refers to the group of people who came of age in the 60's. Experiences and viewpoints of those born in the late 50's and early 60's are never mentioned or included in boomer dialogue. We aren't even an afterthought. I 've no memories of the 60's and I was in kinder or 1st grade during the Summer of Love. If you were too young to be influenced by the formative period of the 60's then you are NOT a boomer. In interviews of Generation X Author Douglas Coupland( b. 1961) it was obvious that reporters didn't consider him part of their generation.
Generational researchers Strauss and Howe actually start Gen X in 1961. Personally, I tend to consider myself a gen xer. Alternatively, one born in 1961 could be considered Generation Jones, which is Jonathan Pontells work.
While you may think that boomerism, whatever the hell that is, is over I can tell you that we are 95% of any activist activities. Check the MoveOn roles and I'll bet we make up most of that organization, too. And, since it is possible to live longer and in better health these days, I think you're going to keep seeing people born in the late 40's and early 50's being active and involved for quite awhile. Next time you see people demonstrating in a public forum, count the number of people that look like they're older than 50, you might be surprised. Next time you think about climate change issues, remember that the person leading the charge is part of the Baby Boom era. As with all generations, there are some good and some bad and a lot in between.
Well, let us not be so hard on the Boomers (yes, I am one). Here is WHY. When this huge bulge in the population pipeline began to enter the work force, the criminals in the US Congress saw the opportunity to tax the hell out of this big population to fund ever increasing US govt spending, and to fund more and more programs for seniors. Now, as the boomers approach that status (senior), they ask......Where is mine????? I paid into the Social Security system for 30-40 years......Where is mine??
The answer is NO WHERE!! The Social Security Trust Fund is just a pile of debt......representing the US Congress spending the annual S/S paid in surplus on things like daily US govt ops, unnecessary wars, and stupid pork. So, when the S/S system goes into the red about 2017, what will be done to repay the S/S system??? The money to repay the IOUs in the Trust Fund has to come from SOME WHERE. Choices:
Higher taxes
or, Borrow the money.
You can thank the US Congress and all the Presidents since Nixon for this mess.
Actually I blame the people who voted for the politicians who cut taxes to get elected and continued to spend.
Boomer's got what they wanted and their children will have to pay for it
I forgot to add the most incendius example of Boomer mentality...the war on Crime....and the explosion of the prison population over the past 30 years.....
Screw the poor and make me safe....I want my McMansion and SUV
THANK YOU!! God am I glad I found this thread! I have seen the light!!
The past 30 (actually 28) years of U.S. politics, with the exception of two Clinton terms of peace and prosperity, have been largely about right wing fringe nuts seizing control of everything they could get their hands on, creating a corporate fascist state, and destroying the U.S. piece by piece from within. Now that people are waking up to the disastrous condition their country is in the wingnuts are simply following the Bush/Cheney lead of blaming their own incompetence, corruption, and criminality on "somebody" (anybody) that preceded them. Enter "The "Boomers!" The Boomers!!! What a wonderful imaginary scapegoat!
DAMN I'm glad I found this thread!!
Like in my previous post....please watch:
Adam Curtis' series "CENTURY OF SELF" http://freedocumentaries.org/film.php?id=140
It changed my life and the way I look at politics
It must be of interest....you seem to linger
Let me just say....you are boomer:
If you know what Zin is
if you did drugs for the spiritual awakening and not to get high
if you got divorced in the 70', 80's after more than 10 years of marriage
if you have kids that live at home
Sorry Zen...not Zin....
Boomer HRC, having worked on McGovern's campaign, should have internalized that the popular vote does not a nominee (or even a VP) make. Herbert Humphrey won the primary popular vote, 4,121,372 votes to McGovern's 4,053,451 (both of which were less than 26% of votes cast as there was a plethora of candidates). Humphrey was in 6th place when it came to delegates, tho, and McGovern won a landslide of delegates. McGovern lost a lot of supporters to Nixon because of people putting hard feelings over self-interest, just like a lot of HRC supporters are claiming they will do in November. How'd that work out for you folks 36 years ago? I wouldn't know, I wasn't born until Carter was president.
Mr. Zogby may believe he is smart enough to figure out the boomers but in my book he is way off the mark. Bill Clinton was no ordinary boomer. How many of us got to shake JFK's hand? How many of us were as sleazy and as sexy and as successful? And the same could be said for George the II, certainly sexless but born with a silver foot in his mouth.
I worked my way through college in jobs from coal miner to editor and every shade of physical and intellectual labor in between. I realize Zogby is in the business of generalities but the boomers were not only the largest contingent but also the most diversified. They are also tired of people figuring them out. It's just not simple.
OhioPoBo, you got it exactly right.
Baby boomers are as diverse as any generation, and perhaps more so due to the many forces pulling us apart. To list a few: the Vietnam War, the draft, the Civil Rights Movement, the drug culture, the hippies, Ecology and Environmentalism, the Nixon Administration and the national conscience, the crisis in confidence in our leaders.
All of these and more had their protesters and supporters.
This may be the end of Boomerism, whatever that is, but there seems to be no end to stereotyping baby boomers, most of which seems inane and negative.
There is no such thing as a generation; Zogby should know this by now. For every war protester between 1965 and 1972, there was a war supporter. There is no common thread that extends such a long time.
The American political system, since the 70's, has been getting shaped by the Boomers. And let's face it, they are, historically speaking, representative of a very unusual time and confluence of events in not only American history, but overall political history. It is like trying to say that all the history and politics of England can be exemplified solely by the era of Cromwell. It can't be done.
The storm of events that created the Boomer generation's mentality-- the huge swell in young, working-age types raised in the post WW2 boom, with the Cold War, nuclear annihilation, Vietnam, and questions about Civil Rights... if our society was caught in an endless cycle of these events, then yes, they'd be perfectly suited to deal with them. But the political terrain has changed irrevocably. The challenges that shaped them are either gone or evolved. They had their time, now it's over.
See, as one from the Baby Boom generation I just don't feel like I've had a big impact on the political system. If I had, we would have long since had a President that wasn't a white man; we wouldn't still be trying to decide if a woman should be able to decide for herself when and if she should reproduce; we would have universal health care because it's better to have a healthy society than a few really rich guys who run insurance companies; we wouldn't be fighting wars for scarce resources or for any reason at all, actually; we would've taken better care of our environment and our planet before it pushed us to the edge of the cliff; a really good education for everyone would be the reality instead of the hope; and no one, no one would have to go to bed hungry in this country another night. No, I don't feel like I've had much of an impact on this political system. My mother who only recently passed and so many others of The Greatest Generation did seem to though, because so much of what I struggled against in the 60's that she was so in favor of seem to be what's had the greatest impact.
1962 was a very good year!
boy, we sure messed things up, didn't we? guess "you can't always get what you want." characterize me by clinton's libido, and dubya's idiot non-savant mental capacity? ouch!
As a Post-Boomer, but not quite a Gen X-er (born 1965) I have been raised in a country where the self-centered Boomers were just a rung or two ahead of me in the ladder all the way through. Obama is a late-arriving Boomer, but as the man is only ~3 years older than me, I feel like he and I share a lot of the same societial upbringing.
Obama says things out lound that I have been thinking for years now. He says things that the main pulse of Boomers haven't been saying at all, and that the Reagan generation viewed (often) as completely bad.
If he can keep his message clear, and if he can reach out to the disaffected people of the post-Boomer generations younger than myself like he did during the Primaries, he should win in November by a relative landslide.
He has just got to say on message, and keep McCain as honest as anybody can keep him and his attack dogs.
"the self-centered Boomers"
This is a common misconception. The post-war baby boom is the largest generation of consumers in U.S. history. Boomers have been the prime targets of massive commericial advertising since they were infants. Boomers did not ask for all that attention; It was thrust upon them by people trying to get rich off them.
It seems to be a common practice these days to rewrite history and blame the boomers for whatever ails them, similar to Bushco blaming all their disasters on Clinton.
I stick with my assertion - the generation as a whole has been relatively self-centered.
Pretty much right along the lines of what OnTheCusp types in response to this same comment.
No one is "re-writing history." They're just calling it like they see it. With 78 million members of their generation, boomers could have really DONE something with their clout, but instead they sold out and bought into all the attention they got just for arriving in large, mass marketable numbers. Just think what the USA, (indeed, the WORLD) would be like today if boomers hadn't let it all be about "them." It is a shame.
Ok, so the boomers "didn't ask for all that attention," but they sucked it up with a straw and never looked back. They are the only generation to lower the age for senior citizen discounts to 50, instead of 65....always cutting themselves another break. Like the Gieco insurance ads say: "Survive the 70's? You deserve special treatment." Yeah, because they've had it their whole lives.
Crap like this is why 73 million echo-boomers and all of GenX are sooooo freakin' over the boomers.
It is time to turn the page!!!
You miss entirely the distinction that Bill and GW pose with previous presidents. They act and think like "children" while our previous presidents were adults. America thought it could indulge itself and vote for its "buddies". Now we found ourselves being left behind by the world. Oops! Time for an adult. Both presidential candidates fit the bill in that regard. Nonetheless we had some really poor presidents that acted like adults so don't presume our troubles are over. However Obama promises maturity, compassion and thoughtful decision-making. If he delivers we're golden once again.
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Posted June 4, 2008 | 04:11 PM (EST)