As this thread winds down, I'll try once more to offer some perspective on some of the comments made here. I am not doing this out of "ego", and I do not think that I am "an authority" on the topic, but I do have a bit more than a "passing familiarity" with it, and with statistical analysis. My reason for this post, perhaps the last that will be made on this thread, is because even after several posts by people who argued for "reasoned and rational consideration of the issue" there still were many subsequent posts that I would not consider to be "reasoned" or "rational" (all too often, it seems, people who post have only read one or two comments in the thread prior to offering their opinions, no matter how uninformed). These should be addressed, at least one final time.
The article cited in Jon's Blog (for anyone who hasn't taken the time to read the entire piece) takes significant effort to explain that there is a dearth of data relevant to the debate. Their purpose in highlighting this fact, I believe, was twofold. First, they wanted to advocate for a more systematic collection of available data, that, as yet, has not been done. Second, they wanted to encourage their readers to "not jump to firm conclusion" of what the data they are presenting, indicates. Drawing a conclusion from incomplete data is folly, and a rational individual would do this at their own peril (less they sound ignorant).
Having read ALL the posts prior to this one, I am more than a bit concerned at some of the comments, many of which have not been challenged, which is also my intent in this post.
(cont)
PTSD and Murder Among Newest Veterans
This weekend, while the 24-hour primary coverage raged on, the New York Times published a very well researched and stunning report on the number of Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans involved in killings, here in America. They found at least 121 cases, now, where a veteran was charged with involvement in a homicide.
The trend of our newest veterans being involved in killings on the homefront can be largely attributed to four letters -- PTSD. Our failure to properly screen for and treat this mental injury is the source of so many problems our newest veterans face -- from drug and alcohol abuse, to homelessness, to joblessness, to spousal abuse, to suicide, and now, to murders.
We have got to get serious about this issue, and do three key things:
• First, we must make it a requirement for troops and veterans to get periodic mental evaluation -- and we must appropriate the money to ensure there are enough qualified counselors to do so. If a veteran lives too far to get an evaluation from a VA center, we should allow them to see a board-certified mental health professional, and reimburse the cost. The military and VA must get serious about these screenings, the same as they have for HIV. Every member of the military must constantly be tested for these diseases, period. Mental health screenings should also become a part of the culture of the military. Period.
• Second, we must do away with all the red tape and hurdles a veteran must go through to "prove" they have PTSD, when they take it upon themselves to seek help. Far too many veterans are denied a "full PTSD" diagnosis because the cost of providing them with full disability is too much for the VA budget to handle. We need to scrap the entire process, and no longer put the burden on the veteran to 'prove' they have PTSD.
• Third, we must rigorously screen all returning troops for mental strain -- not ask them to fill out a simple questionnaire.
Until we tackle this serious issue, and treat it like the serious injury it is, we will continue to see these disturbing trends -- many of which also applied to the Vietnam veterans. Time is of the essence, now. The question is, will we leave a new generation of veterans behind?
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Adding to the PSTD problems is the constant stess of dealing with a non-uniformed enemy, in a country you are occupying and the people hate you being there, fighting people in a strange world to you, fighting in a place not even connected to the events of 9/11 and being forced to return to such places for multiple terms.
You were in the military when we did criminal acts in Abu Grath prision or 'renditioned' some including innocents given 'waterboarding' and other torture, makeing the people in Iraq and Afganistan hate your country and military forces even more.
Then when you get home things get worse for you. You may not have a job despite legal protections as went to others, to other locations including China or India, or out of fear of future deployments or poor skills matches you are unemployed. You, your spouse and family may in debt and angry from having to live in poverty, as your income dropped during deployment.
Your family and friends may think you were an idiot for joining the military during such a conterversial war or having the bad luck to be enlisted or stop lossed or in the National Guard when the decision to go to Iraq occured in 2002.
Then you don't have enough decompression and screeing or support if you were injured. Maybe you suffered only 'mild' concussions and out of fear didn't report them meaning you have serious problems.
In Iraq in particular, we have created too many ticking time bombs of solders who will harm others.
Jon,
Given the hundreds of thousands of GI's who have served in the Gulf area during OIF, it would seem that the reported number is lower than the statistics for civilians!
I agree that PTSD needs more research, and that our troops need more help. However, this is not an epidemic problem now, any more than it was after the Vietnam War, the Korean War, WWII, or WWI. It is an unfortunate, occasional, side-effect that plagues a small percentage of our returning vets. They deserve all the help they can be given. But lets not paint with a brush too broadly.
Semper fi
This is reminiscent of the same type of slanderous articles that were written about Vietnam vets when I came home in 1970.
For the longest time in many American minds, Vietnam vets were nothing but murders, thieves and the dregs of society because of inaccurate stories reported by the media of the day. One reporter writes something and the rest are to lazy to do the research themselves and suddenly the story is being reported nationally as the truth. What a crock!!!
I agree with Soltz that many of the Vets coming home have PTSD and TBI and need treatment, but articles like this in the NY Times imply that the vast majority of vets returning from the war zones are criminals or future criminals and this is simply untrue.
That's why it's so important that these younger veterans challenge the media now and not wait till the war is over. I only wish we had done so 30 years ago, maybe then we'd have the respect that we deserved at that time from our fellow citizens.
God bless our Veterans, may they not be forgotten!
The sad fact is no amount of mental checkups will mend the damage that's already been done. Perhaps this is why Bush and Congress provide just the minimum of care possible. They know the truth. Once that brain is damaged it will never be the same.
A mind gone over the edge from horror or shattered by the force of a thousand right hooks is altered forever in most cases.
I was drinking with a Vietnam vet one night many years ago say 1980 or so when I realized this man was completely out of his mind. He spoke a hundred miles a minute, phantoms pouring forth with the fury of a volcanic eruption. I bought him a few rounds saluting him for his service but the longer we talked the more angry he became and finally he turned on me.
He chased me outside when I attempted to leave threatening to kill me and rape my girlfriend. He even went so far as to pin me against the wall and start to choke me. I felt sorry for him but at the same time I realized he was truly dangerous. I managed to break free and ran away down the road. He isn't the only "lost boy" I've met.
These men were once just like you and me. They realize when they come home that they sacrificed dearly for going off to fight a war that may or may not have been worth it in the end. And in the real world they blame us. Those that got to sit home and watch from the safety of our couches and easy chairs.
Often they act out on these emotions. Anger manifests at the society that would send them to die or be forever damaged. We in turn "thank" them for their service as if this will somehow make up for their suffering.
That's why all this God Bless the Troops bullshit makes me sick. If we had any respect for them at all we would have never sent them to fight unless it was the very last option available.
AND RAPE. Please don't overlook rape. It's endemic in the military. And it deserves a mention, as it is neither normal nor acceptable.
Aw, Jon. Good luck trying to get this nation to think of PTSD or any other mental disorders as a serious issue that has been ignored for decades. Those with mental disabilities are treated as second-class citizens, sort of like "throwaways", and you can see them on the streets in any city in America. They are branded and wear the stigma of shame.
Most health insurance companies reimburse at 50%, as if mental health is half as worthy as physical health, or those with mental disorders are half as worthy as those with organic diseases.
I work in the field of medicine, and I can attest to the negligence in the medical community for treating mental disorders. Nowadays, if you're lucky and can afford the high costs, a doctor will slap an Rx in your hand and send you on your not-so-merry way, with little to NO WARNINGS on the side effects of the meds, which are often worse than the disorder! (Take a look at recent shooting rampages, and nearly every single gunman was on an antidepressant!) The not-so-lucky ones get ZERO assistance. Broken bodies. Broken brains. Broken lives.
Not long ago, one legitimate defense for killing another person was called, "by reason of insanity", and if you've ever witnessed a full-blown psychotic episode (usually with paranoia), you would agree that the person was incapable of determining right vs wrong. It is this paranoia that triggers the ultimate self-defense: taking the life of another.
Not so true for today. Our jail cells are bursting at the seams, with many, many mentally ill and incapacitated people whose real crime was being too poor for medical help.
Universal health care is one way to improve the odds for those suffering from these maladies. It's a damn shame that our vets (the elderly, disabled, poor, sick, etc.) must be left blowin' in the wind by a government that uses, abuses, then discards them like the weekly trash, because they are no longer USEFUL to the government.
Shame on America!
I wonder if it would really help anytihng to screen for PTSD. Will that cure it? Will anything really cure it? If you get diagnosed what happens? You go on some drugs that may or may not work and get therapy?
Will that take away the spooks that haunt your dreams? Will it assuage the guilt and shame of killing? Will it undo what's been done?
We Americans always like to think we can just wave some magic wand and all our pain and angst will just disappear. We never want to give life it's due. We don't ever stop to consider what it does to our young boys and girls to send them over the oceans to kill.
Just as war is part of the Human Condition so are it's wages.
PTSD results from undergoing traumatic experiences. There has to be a cost for war. Our nearly 4,000 dead don't sound like much so we shrug our shoulders and turn away. Then there's the brain damaged and crippled and maimed. Those we bombard with preachy sentimentalism about fighting back and "living a full life" knowing full well that for many this is impossible. No amount of willpower will restore a limb or re-wire a brain hammered into concussion. Or take away the feeling that somehow you got the short end.
Contrary to popular belief we can't just do a little tweaking here and adjusting there and fix PTSD. Often the effects are devastating and life long. Back in the early 70's it was quite common to run into these mutants in the local bars. It is a truly frightening thing to witness what happens to some of these men. They can be truly dangerous and violent. Prone to spontaneous outbursts of raw agression.
John,
Thanks for another insightful piece. Unfortunately, this sounds like "deja vu all over again" with the predictable outcome. For years we Vietnam vets have been accused of lacking character or otherwise just as "losers" (Anne "I never met a war I didn't like, so long as I don't have to serve" Coultard). Perhaps this war will wake up the public to PTSD being a fact of life in any post-war experience.
You do not mention the effect of multiple tours on vets either. Many VN vets like me served multiple tours but the Pentagon and the VA are loathe to admit this because the little reasearch done on this subject suggests that a second tour for even a "non-combatant" is all but gauranteed to result in PTSD.
Head injury, as someone mentioned, is also a major contributor as I learned much later in life when some of my PTSD symptoms did not match the VA criteria. Unfortunately, the VA considered my getting blasted into the air by a 122mm rocket to be inconsequential. Fortunately, they at least now have a dim awareness of the consequences of these injuries. Too late for me but lets hope we can get these new combat vets the help they need. I try to do my part by volunteering my services as a trauma counselor when I can and shall be doing so again this year. Keep up the good work.
World War I= "Shell Shock"
World War II and Korea= "Combat Fatigue"
Vietnam War= "PTSD"
All other Wars after Vietnam= "PTSD"
With some individual troops now deployed for more than one tour, there may be a new diagnosis required.
Upon my return from the Vietnam War, we had to deal with the term "baby killer". Fortunately, American society today has not stooped to that base bias.
Statistics are tools. Returned War veterans are individual human beings. More of them will get over their War and start to live in peacetime without the need for mental health care.
Of course, those individuals who need mental health care should be entitled to it without waiting for the VA to make a final decision on their claim.
cue Hollywood and the revival of the crazed veteran murder-dramas, ad nauseam, just like post-Viet Nam.
and, we'll all be sooo shocked.
It must be emphasized that treatment (depending upon the individual veteran) MUST be available LONG-TERM.
My husband is a clinical psychologist (PsyD), and he regularly treats WORLD WAR II, KOREAN as well as VIETNAM veterans - the WWII guys, by and large, only come in because their FAMILIES force them to, or the pain becomes UNBEARABLE - they have been socialized and conditioned against seeking treatment!
He told me that many, many Iraq veterans will have PTSD as well as other problems - the VA MUST get these vets help - within their system, or by giving the vets vouchers for outside professionals.
Not every veteran will need extensive psychological counseling - I think many can be helped by participating in "Vets' Rap" kind of groups where vets can come together, talk and support one another. However, other veterans will need services, and should get them WITHOUT DELAY!
Here might be some "stats" to look at:
Average length of tour: 3
Average age of enlistee: 19
Average education: HS Grad
Exposure to war: zero
I am sure many Viet Nam vets are still coping
with the effects of seeing their buddies blown
to bits. They were about 19-21 years old back
when they went to war Young people now are
waiting months for an appointment to see a
counselor and about that same amount of time for
medical evaluation. They come home still in
"fight mode". They come home under the stress
of medical conditions related to their time
in Iraq or Afghanistan. They may come home to
delays in getting benefits because the Veterans
Administration is trying to say "it's a pre-
existing condition. They may be facing the
break-up of marriages or relationships. They
do deserve better. Luckily some Senators are
fighting for their rights.
Bravo Jon!!!
The message about PTSD has been going on to Deaf Ears for well over 30yrs, PTSD isn't new, but not only this Country needs to Start Paying Attention NOW!
Because of the nature of Conflict the cases of PTSD cause the devestating results, for some, more quickly, not only the Combat Soldier but those Living in the Combat Theaters!
PTSD can and does effect Many who experiance Traumatic Events in their lives, little children abused, women raped, and the causes are numorous!
To understand, and better treat, Combat Soldiers and Civilians of, should be first and foremost Recognized and Helped, thus Helping the greater populations of!
PTSD, and the results of, also should be right next to "War As A Last Resort", thus No More Support For Wars Of Choice!!!!!!
The military training program, to be effective, takes normal people and turns them into killing machines. It's been tuned up and reworked until it's just about perfect.
What nobody's done is figured out how to UNdo it. PTSD is only part of the problem; a soldier needs to be rebuilt from the ground up to become a human being again just as the human being was destroyed and rebuilt into a soldier.
And these murders have taken place mainly before the Pentagon LOWERED the standards of who can serve. Just imagine what will happen when the criminals who are now allowed to enlist return home and can't find a way to vent their frustrations.
Reduce a man to his bases form, that of animal instinct and then turn him into a killer, that stuff is bound to stick.
Unforseen consequences.
Collatoral damage.
Horror show.
John,
Even those from relative "peacetime" have trouble with this. I was a Panama vet, and haven't been the same since.
We use them, claim to glorify their sacrifice, then put them on the streets to self-medicate and decay...
It's sick, but not unexpected of this administration. People don't see problems until they are smacked in the face with them.
Number one is getting our troops out of this war and home. Number two is admitting that PTSD probably happens to everyone that is put in war; it becomes the norm. PTSD is a killer; it can kill the person with it by suicide or people that they love or come in contact with by murder. It is real. The military doesn't want to admit that it occurs with high frequency because no one would want to join the military and have their life destroyed by PTSD. So they intimidate those who are struggling to get help or put them in a no win situation where they "buck up" in order to not be dumped out of the service. These are our fathers, brothers, sisters, uncles, etc. We must demand that the military take care of them. We must demand that Bush and his minions get us out of this damn war. It is long after impeachment time for Bush/Cheny.
I am a criminal lawyer and represented dozens of "Gulf War I" vets on rape, robbery & murder.
Now the next batch is here -- and busy.
Just doing what they were trained to do. No getting that Genie back in the Bottle.
The surge is working!
Against us.
How ironic it is, that while we are fighting this bogus war on terror, our own servicemen have returned home from duty and have killed more Americans on our own soil, than those big bad terrorists have since 9/11.
There will be, on so many levels, retribution to pay for the black stain the US has created and become. There are the laws of man and there are the laws of the universe (what some call "the laws of God"). With regard to the laws of the universe, Commander Codpiece will not be able to invoke executive privilege, the Republicans/Democrats will not be able to filibuster and the rest of us will not be able to blog with our petty opinions. For what we have done, either through direct action or silence, we will ALL pay - that is a given. The first signs are now evident - the men and women directly involved in the action now coming home angry, ruined, psychotic, maimed physically and mentally, telling stories of torture and atrocity; passing their disease on to their offspring, alienated from their families, turning to drugs, alcohol and self or family-abuse to feed that pain which cannot be satiated. The fallout from this war will make Vietnam look like a Sunday picnic. The "disease" brought back from Iraq will fester and spread throughout our culture in the most insidious and covert ways and one day, down the road, in their anger, those born to suffer the consequences, our children, will wonder why we let it happen and curse us for it.
Funding care for our Veterans should be priority #1. They have earned it. I occasionally donate to various vets groups, sign petitions and write letters to politicans and media. What else can the average American do to support our brave troops?
So 121 U.S. troops from Iraq and Afghanistan have returned home to kill citizens of the society that sent them there. Can"t say I blame them much. We taught them to treat Iraqi lives as cheap and disposable, literally as not worth counting. They merely reasoned from that to the worthlessness of all human life. Quite logical.
Jay got the math wrong, it's .06% if you use the 200,000 number, but even using the 1,000,000 number as total troops serving, that's a murder rate of .012%, or roughly double the national average of .006%
I think the point here is that our troops don't get the mental care they need when they get home. We also have to account for the fact that the population of enlisted people is primarily young males, who are most prone to homicidal behavior anyway.
I hope the numbers game doesn't get in the way of establishing that we must do more for these people when they get home.
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Posted January 14, 2008 | 11:25 AM (EST)