So this is Success? Some of us Still Want to Kill Osama bin Laden.

Throughout the existence of VoteVets.org, we've consistently said we believe two fundamental truths when it comes to the war in Iraq: First, the war is taking away from our ability to fight the real threat to America - al Qaeda in Pakistan and Afghanistan, and that without serious diplomacy in Iraq, the best we can hope for is keeping the cork in the bottle, which would lead to an endless operation there.

Contrary to what those on the other side say, we're pushing for a strategy to truly protect America and battle against worldwide terrorism. Violence levels in Iraq have gone up and they've gone down throughout this war. When they dipped a couple of years ago, the President's supporters said it was proof that the strategy was working. But then those numbers went up, and the NIE on al Qaeda came out that said the terror group had reconstituted itself in Afghanistan, and those people quieted. Now, violence is down again and they say this is proof the surge worked. Yet, two critical stories further prove that what we've been saying are still fundamental truths.

First, in the Washington Post this morning, there is a stunning story of a battle forming within the Pentagon and White House over what to do about Afghanistan. Both sides admit what we've been saying all along - Afghanistan is a mess because our resources have been tied up in Iraq. Reports the Post:

"Administration officials say the White House has become more concerned in recent months about the situation in Afghanistan, where grinding poverty, rampant corruption, poor infrastructure and the growing challenge from the Taliban are hindering U.S. stabilization efforts. Senior administration officials now believe Afghanistan may pose a greater longer-term challenge than Iraq... The senior official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly, said the situation in Afghanistan is "not getting better. It's not getting worse. In a war footing, that's not good enough.""

The saddest part about all of that is that it has come to pass because we took our eye off the ball. Over at our blog, VetVoice.com, IrritatedVet put it best, we've been robbing Peter to pay Paul. Not only has Iraq turned Afghanistan into a serious and critical challenge, but it has allowed the Taliban to regain huge swaths of land that we had once cleared for the new government.

At the same time, those who supported the surge point to Basra, which was controlled by the British, as proof of what can be done when you surge an area with troops. The Brits turned over power, and it sure did seem on the surface like, hey, maybe political reconciliation and peace is possible, along with a transfer of power, if you just surge an area with troops for a while.

Yet, reports the British press:

"The full scale of the chaos left behind by British forces in Basra was revealed yesterday as the city's police chief described a province in the grip of well-armed militias strong enough to overpower security forces and brutal enough to behead women considered not sufficiently Islamic... General Jalil Khalaf, the new police commander, said the occupation had left him with a situation close to mayhem. "They left me militia, they left me gangsters, and they left me all the troubles in the world," he said in an interview for Guardian Films and ITV."

Sadly, it seems without the cork, the bottle has exploded all over the place, and we could see a very quick return to chaos in the region (if this isn't already chaos, as the police commander says).

Our military is the best in the world, and the Brits aren't so bad either. Tell us to take an area, we'll take it. Tell us to hold it, and we'll hold it. But unless there is serious diplomatic negotiation - unless you make a serious effort to have all regional players sit at the table - violence will once again explode, unless you stay there forever. Let's also not forget that the longer we're there, the more and more we give insurgent groups a great recruiting tool, insuring that they'll be well stocked with members for generations to come. So, if you haven't already, at a certain point you need to ask if it is worth it. At some point you need to decide whether to "reconcile or divorce," so to speak. The other option - staying forever just to keep the cork on the bottle - isn't an option at all.

In the end, these two stories, together, put the short-term military advances in broader terms. Yes, we have taken parts of Baghdad, and yes US deaths levels are down. That's always welcome news. But if we're to make that a permanent trend in Iraq, short of intense diplomacy, it will mean we will have to stay in Iraq forever. And, if that's the way we want to go, we can surely expect to see Afghanistan soon fall back under the thumb of the Taliban and al Qaeda, with us having absolutely no ability to stop them.

If that's what "success" is to those who support the President's strategy, I sure would hate to see what failure is.

Comments

[MAX1]

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John Soltz,

Slaying one head of the Hydra, does not kill it.

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[oogabooga]

The author misses the overarching point. The Neo-Con neo-Fascists want endless war for endless profit. Period.

[Overd0g]

I don't know if you noticed, but we're still in Japan and Europe from WWII. Expect to stay forever, or at least until the oil runs out and the middle east becomes irrelevant again.

[realitytrumpsbull]

Well, let's talk about 9/11, and Osama s'more:
First things first, Saudi Arabia. Our troops
are all over hell's half acre trying to do this
and that and whatever, 15 of the 19 guys that
were said to have perpetrated 9/11 came from
Saudi Arabia. Pardon me, but there's a lot of
showmanship going on, here. I'll put on the
tinfoil hat for a minute, and theorize that
it's really hard to 'catch' somebody if they
ride along in the back of the car with you,
'cause they're always right behind you. Hmm.
Why say a way-out whack-job thing like that?
I'll tell you why: Golf buddies. Bush and
Cheney are/were oilmen. Well, gee golly gosh
darn, so was dear ol' dad, at least by proxy
through something called Carlyle. Read MY
lips, it's a family business worth BILLIONS.
Ah, fambly...speaking of fambly, Osama was
once a Rich Kid. No, RICH.

My view is, all the people involved in this,
including the 'defense' financiers, have
a Mad Stack Of Cash, and I doubt very much
that they're morally above authoring a Serious
Bullshit Story to keep the revenue rolling.
More money in fighting a war than winning it,
so include the profit motive angle in all of
your analyses and don't take any wooden GPS
readings etc. Smedley said it, Ike said it,
and I'll say it in summary to my post, war's
a racket. Nuff said. Well, not entirely.
Question authority, question 'facts', question
EVERYthing. Truth AND justice ARE the
american way', even if it means some fat guy
that used to sell tank tires ends up spending
the rest of his natural life in the Big House
for providing aid and comfort to the enema,
or selling th' gummit a Major League Bullshit
Story To Begin With. Follow the money, see
who stands to profit here by perpetuating
all of this...

[FogBelter]

Jon, Bin Laden has more value to the Bush Administration "at large' than captured or killed, that's why the focus is on Iraq rather than Afghanistan or Pakistan.

Bin Laden "at large" permits this Administration to invoke rage and fear from the American people, the key to their control and success ... capture Bin Laden and Bush loses his leverage.

Orwell spelled it out for us.

Bush needs Bin Laden like Big Brother needs Goldstein.

That's the way I see it.

[SamThornton]

Unfortunately for our side, failures have consequences that will play out. Our failures in Iraq occurred in 2003 and precipitated our current failures in Afghanistan, and, absent the invention of a way-back machine, they are all unfixable.

We will be no better off in the Middle East -- and the Middle East will be no better off -- regardless of whether we continue to hemorrhage blood and money, or stage a complete pullout tomorrow.

At this point, Iraq as well as Afghanistan is all about domestic U.S. politics: Who will get to play the "stab in the back" card for the next 20 years.

Everything else is hot air.

[in4success]

"Not only has Iraq turned Afghanistan into a serious and critical challenge, but it has allowed the Taliban to regain huge swaths of land that we had once cleared for the new government."

thus: guaranteeing a few more good years or war-profiteering, non-consequential haliburton drug/rape episodes and blackwater training (they're coming -- believe it!), jon.

[django707]

Why is anybody still fantasizing that we are ever going to pull out of Iraq? The country is being privatized from top to bottom and that requires a permanent military presence. Who else is going to protect those corporate interests? The local militias? We are there permanently.
Which doesn't mean that an eventual downsizing of the military fighting force won't be spun as the troops finally coming home. I just wonder if the media is going to count how many troops remain behind.

[TexasDem0]

Killing Osama bin Laden would make him a martyr in the eyes of his followers. Put him in prison and let them know it"s Allah"s will that he shall rot in prison, that he is not a prophet, that he is a common criminal.

[RuthieM]

Again, media, it's Usama with a "U, not Osama with an "O". It is disgustingly ironic that as soon as Obama announced his candidacy for president that the spelling of Usama Bin Laden's name changed to an O instead of the U it should be.

[Jonahson]

Unlike in Iraq you have good support of the Afghan government on your side. The idea is not to remain in other people's country too long because you will wear out your initial welcome eventually. If for six years you cannot built a strong Afghan Government to run the country completely instead it is going on reverse gear then the purpose of the stay by Nato and US forces need to be look into deeply again.
At the rate things are going it looks like their stay is going to be perpectual.

[Crowhaul]

bin Laden is the single biggest criminal to effect the US in the entirety of its 231 year history.

GWB has had 6 years to capture him....and has failed miserably:

"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him."
- G.W. Bush, 9/13/01

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
- G.W. Bush, 3/13/02

This, indeed, will be GWB's legacy: the man who dismissed so readily our single worst enemy.

[IYouWe]

Without a sincere movement toward Political reconciliation between the Shiites and Sunnis violence will rage forever (see: the last 2000 years). This administration has shown no ability whatsoever to facilitate a reconciliation, in fact it seems to have no real understanding of this major underlying problem. The fact is we have propped up dictators in the middle east for easy access to oil. These dictators in turn have directed the rage of their populations towards the United States through fundamentalist clerics and Madrasas. Throw in an American troop presence for extra measure and the population, raised for years to distrust and hate Americans, and you have a situation ripe for the picking of terrorists.
The FACT is this incompetent approach to "fighting terrorists over there, instead of here" is fueling terrorism rather than snuffing it out. You can't kill the ideas of people with guns. When you kill one non terrorist person when occupying a country, who has a family, friends, and a religious community, you potentially create 5 more terrorists. The poisonous ideas of the Clerics then ring true to these populations when everybody they care for is dying around them .
We should have put 500,000 troops in Afghanistan, guarded the borders, and killed Osama and all his cohorts as soon as humanly possible. We should have then used the good will of the world to use soft power to allow us to incur into countries to kill and capture other terrorist groups who want to do us harm. As it stands thousands of would be terrorists are getting the best training ground possible in Baghdad, the world distrusts and hates us, and almost all Muslim countries are convinced we are on a crusade. This fights terrorism how?
All you right wingers out there need to take a step back and realize that your administrations' approach was wrong in strategic terms, horribly bungled in execution, and causing us to be more at risk to the type of attacks we suffered on 9/11. Also you need to stop reveling in your persecution complex. It's sad.

[research]

It could be far worse in the near future. Bin Laden and the Taliban are regrouping in Pakistan. Pakistan is ripe for a Taliban coup. Then we will have a nuclear armed Bin Laden running Taliban

Heck of a job BushCo!

Impeach!

Meanwhile, The Saudi families funded "schools" to teach the Wahabi message of hate, for some 25 years now with Billions! But the Saudi are BushCo best buddies! Remember Bush Holding hand with the Sheik while they walked and talked privately for the camera.

Those Saudis created and funded the Wahabi sect, Bin Ladens sect, that attacked us on 9/11 and many other times as well.

Our Best Friends the Saudis, the terrorists of 9/11.

[HumeSkeptic]

There is no military solution in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Bring the troops home.

Try a different, smarter approach. It would be less expensive, cause fewer deaths, and the solution would be longer lasting.

It would involve well trained police supported by intelligence on the ground and by negotiators.

Use the money to provide Afghans alternative ways of making money than growing poppy. Or, just accept that poppy growing is OK.

Sending more troops to Afghanistan is asking for the fate of the Soviets in Afghanistan.