iPhone app iPad app Android phone app Android tablet app More

Featuring fresh takes and real-time analysis from HuffPost's signature lineup of contributors
Jonathan Dudley

GET UPDATES FROM Jonathan Dudley

Christian Faith Requires Accepting Evolution

Posted: 06/18/11 04:35 PM ET

In the evangelical community, the year 2011 has brought a resurgence of debate over evolution. The current issue of Christianity Today asks if genetic discoveries preclude an historical Adam. While BioLogos, the brainchild of NIH director Francis Collins, is seeking to promote theistic evolution among evangelicals, the president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary recently argued that true Christians should believe the Earth is only a few thousand years old.

As someone raised evangelical, I realize anti-evolutionists believe they are defending the Christian tradition. But as a seminary graduate now training to be a medical scientist, I can say that, in reality, they've abandoned it.

In theory, if not always in practice, past Christian theologians valued science out of the belief that God created the world scientists study. Augustine castigated those who made the Bible teach bad science, John Calvin argued that Genesis reflects a commoner's view of the physical world, and the Belgic confession likened scripture and nature to two books written by the same author.

These beliefs encouraged past Christians to accept the best science of their day, and these beliefs persisted even into the evangelical tradition. As Princeton Seminary's Charles Hodge, widely considered the father of modern evangelical theology, put it in 1859: "Nature is as truly a revelation of God as the Bible; and we only interpret the Word of God by the Word of God when we interpret the Bible by science."

In this analysis, Christians must accept sound science, not because they don't believe God created the world, but precisely because they do.

Of course, anti-evolutionists claim their rejection of evolution is not a rejection of science. Phillip Johnson, widely considered the leader of the Intelligent Design movement, states that all he's rejecting is the atheistic lens through which evolutionary scientists view the world. Evolution, he argues, is "based not upon any incontrovertible empirical evidence, but upon a highly philosophical presupposition."

And to a certain extent, this line of argument makes sense. Science is not a neutral enterprise. Prior beliefs undoubtedly influence interpretation. If one believes God created vertebrates with a similar design plan, one can acknowledge their structural similarities without believing in common descent. No amount of dating evidence will convince someone the Earth is 4.5 billion years old if that person believes God created the world to look old, with the appearance of age.

But beyond a certain point, this reasoning breaks down. Because no amount of talk about "worldviews" and "presuppositions" can change a simple fact: creationism has failed to provide an alternative explanation for the vast majority of evidence explained by evolution.

It has failed to explain why birds still carry genes to make teeth, whales to make legs, and humans to make tails.

It has failed to explain why the fossil record proposed by modern scientists can be used to make precise and accurate predictions about the location of transition fossils.

It has failed to explain why the fossil record demonstrates a precise order, with simple organisms in the deepest rocks and more complex ones toward the surface.

It has failed to explain why today's animals live in the same geographical area as fossils of similar species.

It has failed to explain why, if carnivorous dinosaurs lived at the same time as modern animals, we don't find the fossils of modern animals in the stomachs of fossilized dinosaurs.

It has failed to explain the broken genes that litter the DNA of humans and apes but are functional in lower vertebrates.

It has failed to explain how the genetic diversity we observe among humans could have arisen in a few thousand years from two biological ancestors.

Those who believe God created the world scientists study, even while ignoring most of the data compiled by those who study it, might as well rip dozens of pages out of their Bibles. Because if "nature is as truly a revelation of God as the Bible," it's basically the same thing.

Many think the widespread rejection of evolution doesn't really matter. Evolution is about what happened in the past, the argument goes, so rejecting it doesn't have an impact on policies we make today. And aside from school curricula, they may be right.

But the belief that scientists can discover truth, and that, once sufficiently debated, challenged and modified, it should be accepted even if it creates tensions for familiar belief systems, has an obvious impact on decisions that are made everyday. And it is that belief Christians reject when they reject evolution.

In doing so, they've not only led America astray on questions ranging from the value of stem cell research to the etiology of homosexuality to the causes of global warming. They've also abandoned a central commitment of orthodox Christianity.

 
 
 

Follow Jonathan Dudley on Twitter: www.twitter.com/jonathandudley

In the evangelical community, the year 2011 has brought a resurgence of debate over evolution. The current issue of Christianity Today asks if genetic discoveries preclude an historical Adam. While Bi...
In the evangelical community, the year 2011 has brought a resurgence of debate over evolution. The current issue of Christianity Today asks if genetic discoveries preclude an historical Adam. While Bi...
 
 
  • Comments
  • 4,821
  • Pending Comments
  • 0
  • View FAQ
Comments are closed for this entry
View All
Favorites
Recency  | 
Popularity
Page: 1 2 3 4 5  Next ›  Last »  (37 total)
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
aspiechristian
zenscopalian
05:45 PM on 08/14/2011
I am what most people would call "born again," that is, I am Christian by experience, but that's as far as my association with that tem goes. Theologically speaking, the message of the Gospel finds its real power only within the context of human evolution. The church describes humanity as born "in sin." I see humanity's great problems stemming from our membership in the animal kingdom - no matter how high up the ladder, we are still creatures of instinct. Some of us are able to envision a world in which war and other forms of human predation are quelled; in which we all care for one another, for the poor, the outcast, and other victims of predation, social Darwinism, and human injustice. Although we are not sufficiently evolved to realize such a vision in meaningful numbers, we are nonetheless able to dream it. If you want to know what sin really is, look no further than the human brain. Our gray and white matter sits atop a primitive construction of midbrain and brainstem. Primitive, instinctual signals, can become dangerous when mingled with volitile emotions. The promise of Christ is to spiritually elevate and enlighten our incomplete evolutionary status. It is an exchange of natures: our animal nature for the Divine - the result of an ever-deepening relationship with Christ Himself in which the enlightenment of the human spirit by the Holy Spirit is intended to close the gap betweeen the sapiens animal, and a new creation.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
KenKo
11:57 AM on 08/12/2011
Religion is indeed the opiate of the masses. Religion provides certainty of beliefs and convictions, science can only opine on uncertainties because it relies on evidence and substantion of theories. If we can accept that the world is one of pre-ordered design and in fact, we bear the ultimate responsibility for its custody, and not some supernatural being upon whom we will abandon all responsibility and guilt, then we will mature as a human species. Who knows? Maybe that's what the divinity also wanted. We were given or endowed with free will after all.
11:58 AM on 07/11/2011
Will teaching Creationism in the science classes propel us in the 21st century competitive economy where devoutly religious students around the world are studying SCIENCE in science classes and already out ranking us in tests in science in math? I think that only God can use Creationism to create and innovate, human beings need to use their brains and science. Yep, science is the evil teaching that proves, with reasonable certainty, that if we make something, it needs to work as expected..like when we put the car in reverse, we go backwards - like teaching Creationism in science class would do.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
galanos1
Reality & Life Is Less Then A Second Away
02:44 PM on 07/01/2011
It is possible for God to have man perfect from the beginning, but man could not receive this perfection, being as yet an infant. And for this cause our Lord came to us not as He might have come, but as we were capable of beholding Him. He might easily have come to us in His immortal Glory, but in that case we could never have endured the Greatness of the Glory; and therefore it was that He, who was the perfect bread of the Father, offered Himself to us as milk because we were as infants. He did this when He appeared as a man, that we being nourished as it were, from the breast of His flesh, and having by such a course of milk nourishment, become accustomed to eat and drink the Word of God, may be able also to contain in ourselves the Bread of Immortality, which is the Spirit of the Father.
04:34 AM on 06/28/2011
It never ceases to amaze me how people continue to attempt to reconcile religion with natural science over the course of human history. We just can't totally abandon the idea of 'god' no matter how far science is advanced. And I don't mean to be sarcastic here. I think it's probably our nature to want to believe that there is a certain order of things governing this world we live in. A guideline, if you will. And the concept of 'god' embodies that guiding principle. It is both our strength and weakness to seek for something to lean on in the wilderness of unpredictability and somehow always manage to construct a logic in which both religion and science can co-exist. It just gets ugly when people of one particular sect start demonizing others who don't subscribe to their theory. But hey, who's to deny that may also be a divine design to keep humanity in check?
03:06 PM on 06/29/2011
Maybe one day, super intelligent computers will take over that roll and humans can worship them.
05:11 AM on 06/26/2011
All too often, what most people have is a dilemma between conscience and reality. They tend to live in an armchair world where it is so simple to choose what they will believe or not believe. Secularism has soften the blows of hedonism to social acceptance. The norms and mores of a morally decadent society are invading every facet of human existence.

There are those whose every utterance is science and its tautology becomes a blinding credo. Academe for those who lack a true science background becomes their manifesto. Wherein, their faith is pinned on the hopes that evolution is correct, and their reward is the requiem itself with it being no more quantitative or qualitative than the subsume of their trophic lives.

Viscerally attacking those who choose something greater than themselves, they find comfort and peace in rhetoric. Never for one moment do they really believe in the finality of their own existence. Yet, they will shout it from the mountain tops that they are the progeny of primordial slime, and they take pride that their primogentor was a cosmic accident.

And, no succor by anyone can be availed when they are tremulous before God.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
taoistpunk
because the monks wouldn't have me..
11:32 AM on 06/26/2011
I think your entire comment is, “visceral.” It seems to lack evidence, logic, and to miss the point of the article.

Since when has a choice been both simple and a dilemma?

If secularism leads to “moral decadence” then why are the most highly educated in our secular system both the least likely to be ultra-religious and the least likely to divorce? Why did so many sex scandals plague our founding fathers, and shouldn’t we rate the institution of slavery at the top of any “moral decadence” list? Not to put too fine a point on it, but I have never heard of a suicide bomber, or an abortion clinic murderer, or a KKK leader, ever waving the flag of Secularism.

If it’s true that, “There are those whose every utterance is science,” then how do they get coffee in the morning?

I don’t doubt that you think you can see into the hearts and minds of others, discerning their “real beliefs” and what brings them “comfort and peace.” I don’t doubt that you believe your position to be morally superior. And I nearly broke a tooth reading all those five dollar words…. But in the end, to me, your analysis seems as likely as a million intellectuals driving, tearfully, past the Starbucks each day.
07:20 AM on 06/27/2011
"Not to put too fine a point on it, but I have never heard of a suicide bomber, or an abortion clinic murderer, or a KKK leader, ever waving the flag of Secularism­."
Well. If you haven't heard of them, I'm guessing you need to read a bit more.

The suicide jacket - i.e. what we think of as suicide bombers - was first used by the Tamil Tigers. A secular group.

Now, the KKK may use religion, but much of the racism in the twentieth century was secular - e.g. Stalin and Hitler, who both based their concepts of superior races directly on Darwin. Stalin, and communism in many other nations, went out of their way to try to kill religion.

Abortion clinic murderers would seem a strange choice for the third one. Since the reason behind the murders is normally religious, of course there is no-one waving the flag of secularism. However, you assume that abortion itself is not murder - secularism is waved as a flag to allow millions of human beings to be killed every year. I am not justifying the murders of those who perform them (I'm anti-death penalty), but in terms of sheer numbers of lives taken, secularism wins hands down. Except that secularism doesn't acknowledge they are human lives. Since science has nothing to say one way or the other (we can merely define, not prove, what makes a human) that is a lot of death justified purely by a belief system.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Palspal2
09:54 AM on 06/27/2011
Whatever...scientists do not push evolution in your church, please don't push creation 'science' mythology in the classroom. It's not a competing scientific theory, it's wishful thinking.
03:24 PM on 07/04/2011
I think given the history of our planet and the history of all of the Christian sects and those religions otherwise, those people have shown that they were and are quite capable of making a mess of things. In fact, the proof is that given the chance for power and money or glory, the behavior has been bad. Given the change to be xenophobic over other religions, the behavior has been bad or should I say, "very naughty and mean-spirited indeed". Given the chance to help people like during the Black Plague, it was used to persecute people all over. Any superstition is used as a jump off point of persecution and xenophobia. Even your post is a clear example of that. You assumed things regarding secular people that are false and false on the most basic level. I find that curious. Why? Why would you be this way? The answer to that cannot be anything but ugly and mean or ignorant and xenophobic.

In my experience, those people who are not Christians and yet have lived thoughtful examined lives and strong professional ones, are the most honest and ethical people I have met and known. The worse have been Christians who live but poorly examines but faith filled lives. Of course I live in America where many people are Christians so it may not be surprising that such naughty people are Christians. The numbers make that occurance inevitable.
conservo
Tea Partier, Atheist, Libertarian, Objectivist
12:29 PM on 06/25/2011
Once agian, I am seeing a desperate attempt (by christianity) to square the circle. If there really was a "god" and a bible (which was the "word" of that "god") there would not be so much confusion as to what that "god" requires of his flock. It would all be quite clear and the "word of god" would not be open to interpretation---especially if the consequenses of "non-belief" were so "hellish".
04:11 PM on 06/25/2011
How is it desperate?
conservo
Tea Partier, Atheist, Libertarian, Objectivist
09:57 PM on 06/26/2011
It used to be that "evoluton" was anethma to religious folks. Now, they concede the point because it simply is too nonsensical to argue against it. Time for little religious beavers to get busy hammering and chiseling away at that 'ol circle to make the theory fit into their beat up and wore out hypothesus.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
07:36 PM on 06/25/2011
We find Spirituality (meaning) in what we find Spiritual (meaning) and, from that, comes purpose. The real danger of organized religion is that it is crystallized Spirituality -- some people, long ago, found somethings very meaningful and so on and so on...transmitting this spirituality through how it has always been communicated, through stories and myths and legends...and then trying to force these on other people, not realizing that their Spirituality belongs to them and them alone. This forcing should be fought by all thinking and ethical human beings, no matter if they call themselves 'atheist' or 'non-theist' or 'theist' or 'cadbury creme egg' :3
photo
Mac1000
My macro-bio ate my micro-bio.
01:15 PM on 06/27/2011
F & F.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
taoistpunk
because the monks wouldn't have me..
10:23 AM on 06/25/2011
As I raise my children, I find the easy answers of religion appealing. Reassurances of afterlife and cosmic justice seem a simple and desirable solution to the concerns that we all experience.

When they were small I could say, we return to the place we came from, or, we go to that place where our ancestors have already gone, and that was enough.

When they were older I told them how Chuang Tzu dreamed that he was a butterfly, and waking, could no longer tell if he was a man who had dreamed of being a butterfly, or if he was a butterfly dreaming that he was a man.

While I still like to think of Chuang Tzu dancing and laughing his way to funerals, I find that as my children enter their teenage years that I have little left to say about an afterlife beyond, “those who know don’t tell, those who tell don’t know.”

But while we are blind to existence beyond our senses, (and the instruments we use to amplify them) this world gives us a certain assurance, a certain truth.

1+1=2. Every structure and every system, everything we see and do depends on this logic.

Any model of the known universe constructed outside of this basic 1+1 framework is, and must be, so far beyond our reality as to be unknowable, and therefore meaningless in its application.

And so the ancient proverb goes: Pray to God, but tie your camel first.
conservo
Tea Partier, Atheist, Libertarian, Objectivist
12:34 PM on 06/25/2011
So you are indocrinating your children to believe in fairy tales. 1+1=2 is NOT proof that a fairy tale is true.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
taoistpunk
because the monks wouldn't have me..
03:24 PM on 06/25/2011
And what greater fairy tale is there than to believe in the philosophy of Ayn Rand?

As far as “indoctrination” goes, you’ve now given me a great image of you, in a business suit, holding down a three year old while you diagram cell death with a power point presentation.

As for 1+1: I think it’s pretty clear that my point is that it’s ok to acknowledge our spiritual side, so long as it doesn’t interfere with our sense of reality. I hope you don’t have a religious aversion to spirituality..
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
07:39 PM on 06/25/2011
How do we create Justice? It doesn't exist at all, grind up universe and not an atom of it exists...but we believe in it, the concept is meaningful to us and it gives purpose, so we've created mechanisms to make sure that Justice, of sorts, happens. And yet, the fine structure constant is NOT proof that Justice is true.

Avoid category mistakes :3
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Rooster Coburn
Less Gov't + More Responsibility = A Better World
04:54 PM on 06/25/2011
Or as said long before me, "Work as if everything were up to you and pray as if everything were up to God."
01:21 AM on 06/25/2011
Spirit can not and never has created matter for the same reason mathematics can't create a computer. There is nothing in mathematics from which to create a computer.
When the Bible talks about being "born again", being "baptized of the Spirit" or about a "new heaven and new earth" it is really talking about states and stages of consciousness, about changing our relationship to God, or Truth, i.e. a learning process. Spirituality is learned, and the learning process always involves an element of creative destruction, i.e. the more poorly understood concept is destroyed to be replaced by the more profoundly understood concept.
In like manner, the material concept is "destroyed" to be replaced by a more spiritual concept. As this takes place we discover that the true universe is entirely Spirit. As for material evolution, the reason it looks like the material universe developed over a time continuum is similar to why the rails of a train track seem to converge. We can only see the track from one standpoint so they run together. Likewise we can only see the material universe from a finite standpoint so it appears to project backward to a point. But, " one day is with the Lord as a thousand years". God doesn't need a calendar. 6 seconds, 6 years, 6000 or six billion years are irrelevant concepts to Spirit.

Bottom line, most of the discussion on thread misses the point.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
taoistpunk
because the monks wouldn't have me..
03:48 AM on 06/25/2011
As a reprobate Taoist I share your view that the world we see is not the all of existence. But I can’t build a better computer with wu wei any more than you can with spirit.

As the free nations of the world fall behind in science, (and as the article is covers one of the great debates in American about science) I think we’re hitting pretty close to the mark.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
iLdoRight
Encouraging The Rightest Rightness
12:32 AM on 06/25/2011
What I see is some peoples morals evolving upward out of discust for the immorality of others, who are devolving downward while others are trying to push people off a cliff into the abyss. Which side are you on? That of "true" Christianity, or something else? Please join the program to help Jesus win.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
taoistpunk
because the monks wouldn't have me..
03:51 AM on 06/25/2011
Win???
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
freducate
Spirit Naturally Evolving
12:28 AM on 06/25/2011
Did evolution happen? Yes. Beyond that . . .

"Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection . . . is hopelessly metaphysical, according to the rules of etiquette laid down in the Logic of Scientific Inquiry and widely believed in by practicing scientists who bother to think about the problem. The first rule for any scientific hypothesis ought to be that it is at least possible to conceive of an observation that would contradict the theory. For what good is a theory that is guaranteed by its internal logical structure to agree with all conceivable observations, irrespective of the real structure of the world?

If scientists . . . use logically unbeatable theories about the world, they might as well give up natural science and take up religion. Yet is that not exactly the situation with regard to Darwinism? The theory of evolution by natural selection states that changes in the inherited characters of species occur, giving rise to differentiation in space and time, because different genetical types leave different numbers of offspring in different environments...

Such a theory can never be falsified, for it asserts . . . environmental difference created the conditions for natural selection . . . It is existentially quantified so that the failure to find the environmental factor proves nothing, . . . .

The theory of natural selection is then revealed as metaphysical rather than scientific. Natural selection explains nothing because it explains everything.

Lewontin http://bit.ly/gVwU1T
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
taoistpunk
because the monks wouldn't have me..
01:15 AM on 06/25/2011
The theory of evolution as it exists has been amended numerous times and I have never heard of a scientist claiming (in this century anyway) that there was nothing left to discover.
The genetic structure of humans and fruit flies are pretty well known. Show me a human who carries only the genetic material of a fruit fly, or fruit flies with no genetic material at all and you will have turned evolution theory on it’s head.

So your argument is wrong because the premise is false.

Beyond that, the idea that a theory could be wrong because it’s just too true is nonsensical.

1+1=2 is an argument, a testable theory that explains nature and can not be logically refuted. It is not metaphysical, it’s just how things in this world work. Evolution theory is like gravitational theory: formed by decades of research and defining the physical world as it is.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
freducate
Spirit Naturally Evolving
01:30 AM on 06/25/2011
"The theory of evolution as it exists has been amended numerous times and I have never heard of a scientist claiming (in this century anyway) that there was nothing left to discover."

Me, neither. But this doesn't touch on the point.

"The genetic structure of humans and fruit flies are pretty well known. Show me a human who carries only the genetic material of a fruit fly, or fruit flies with no genetic material at all and you will have turned evolution theory on it’s head."

Right you are, but I'm not disputing any of that, so I'm not sure how it applies here.

"So your argument is wrong because the premise is false."

I'd love to take your word on it, but you haven't said anything that leads me to believe you know what my argument is.

"Beyond that, the idea that a theory could be wrong because it’s just too true is nonsensica­l."

I have no idea what this means, but I'm certain it doesn't pertain to Lewonton's quote.

"1+1=2 is an argument, a testable theory that explains nature and can not be logically refuted. It is not metaphysic­al, it’s just how things in this world work."

Is this going anywhere?

"Evolution theory is like gravitatio­nal theory: formed by decades of research and defining the physical world as it is."

Uh, evolution certainly happened, so I have no idea what your overall point is, since I said so at the start.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
DakkonA
www.DisentangledReality.com
07:26 AM on 06/25/2011
Evolution in the past would be described by the same mechanisms as those today which have been observed and which fits the evidence we have available.

By your argument, we couldn't be sure that gravity, nuclear fusion, etc. is responsible for the development of all the bodies of the cosmos. They all depended on exactly where they developed and when.

You are imposing unnecessarily restrictive binders on science to limit its attempts to understand to what can be directly observed at the present time. Until and unless we find that such things change over time today, there is no reason to assume that the universe in the past on Earth was so different that evolution would not have happened.

The reason it isn't conceivable for an observation to invalidate evolution is that the major pieces that could have invalidated it have all been looked into and everything agrees with it. Multiple independent origins of life, highly disconnected from each other (e.g. no detectable similarities in DNA) would instantly disprove evolution.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
DakkonA
www.DisentangledReality.com
07:36 AM on 06/25/2011
I take that back, it wouldn't disprove evolution, it would just limit its scope to those separate clades, rather than suggest a single common ancestor.
07:09 PM on 06/24/2011
If Genesis isn't literal, (as many parts of the bible aren't to be taken literally - i.e. parables, etc.), then there is ample room for evolution to occur hand-in-hand with Scripture. The real question then, is what literary style Genesis was originally written to be.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
07:48 PM on 06/24/2011
What would be the point of melding the bible, literal or figurative with the natural sciences?
recless
Evidence first. Believe later. Maybe.
12:53 AM on 06/25/2011
Like most people they are trying to prove what they already believe, not falsify it. That is their fundamental misunderstanding of the purpose of science.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
jolsen
02:37 AM on 06/25/2011
I don't see the point. If there is a God, then he would be a supernatural entity. The natural sciences observe nature. As of now, they do not necessarily contradict each other; however, science should stay out of the churches, and religion should stay out of the labs and classrooms.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
11:35 PM on 06/24/2011
Genesis was obviously something that some 'ancient' people found to be Spiritual (meaning) and from that they got purpose.

The recent event of Biblical literalism seems to conflate what science does (find facts) with what people find to be meaningful. Which causes a lot of sillyness and confusion -- but without which, there would be no need for self-identified atheists.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
04:41 PM on 06/24/2011
This whole evolution/creation debate is a side show. The Bible has 66 books and they are very divers. The Bible contains history, but it is not an historical document - it contains letters, law, poetry, philosophy and many different stories.

But the Bible is about just one thing: how man came to be in rebellion against God and how God has brought about a reconciliation. This is the Gospel. The Bible carries the Gospel but not everything in the Bible is Gospel.

Arguing about evolution or creation is to completely miss the point of the Bible.
photo
pdferguson
Micro-bios? We don't need no stinkin' micro-bios!
05:46 PM on 06/24/2011
You're right, the Bible is about just one thing: Iron Age mythology. Science fiction from a bygone era. That's all you're saying, and I'm simply agreeing with you.

Arguing about evolution or creation is to completely MISUSE the Bible.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
06:21 PM on 06/24/2011
Indeed, the Bible is a communication of an ancient people's Spirituality (from which they gained purpose) which then Paul changed into a Religion. It all comes under art.

Evolution and 'creationism' come under science.

Art belongs with art. Science belongs with science. Any confusion is the responsibility of the person who thinks so and not to be construed as something 'real' outside themselves.
04:28 PM on 06/24/2011
well gate-keeps have decided to post Part 2 of my answer to Jolson, and not Part 1 making it show up out of order if they post it at all. Being as I submitted both posts at same time, seems a bit fishy only half is showing up--the second half. Oh well -- Nothing like giving each side a fair shot at defending themselves---
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
07:51 PM on 06/24/2011
Creationists had over 2000 years of time to display evidence of their belief in creationism. You definitely already had your fair shot at making this stick.
03:06 PM on 06/24/2011
sorry author, the Christian faith requires FAITH.

Faith in the Word of God, faith that it IS the word of GOD, and that its inerrant and true. Your God is fully capable of creating everything out of nothing--no big deal for him

Also the bible DOES NOT, I repeat, DOES NOT present the account of creation as allegory, parable or anything but literal fact--and reconfirms that through other books of the Bible where it is referred to as literal fact. So God at his word or you don't--if you don't you put more faith in a theory that's shot full of holes than God.

And seriously, evolution as a theory has many holes in it.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
jolsen
03:14 PM on 06/24/2011
How about right at the beginning:

Genesis 1:11-13; 1:27
11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.
... 27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

Genesis 2:4-7
4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the LORD God made the earth and the heavens.
5 Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth[a] and no plant had yet sprung up, for the LORD God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6 but streams[b] came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground. 7 Then the LORD God formed a man[c] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

Two different stories, each presented as inerrant truth. If one is a lie, then that undermines everything you've said.
04:01 PM on 06/24/2011
ok i just went to post my reply and it says its too long but I cant cut it andexplain it as I need to -so I am going to paste it in above your comment--look for it at the top
04:03 PM on 06/24/2011
and I thought it would allow me a longer comment if I posted it as an original post, but it doesn't, so I have to see if I can edit it and still manage all the info that's necessary, give me a minute
photo
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
HotelDrama
03:14 PM on 06/24/2011
The "literal fact" of the Creation myths in Genesis is literal myth, not fact. The Bible is not a science book.

You comments indicate that you don't know much about evolution.
03:48 PM on 06/24/2011
here-in is where your argument dies ...
your science book is nothing more than what man has written, and throughout the ages it is continually needing to be re-written when we discover our discoveries were either completely wrong, or so incomplete as to render the previous 'science fact' useless.
in a hundred years much of what we believe scientifically will have gone this way....
It is not that science is wrong, for it is what we are designed to do, to reach beyond what we can touch, to question, to seek ... only science has missed that it is all just leading back to The Creator, to show that we, being that special creation, are more than just a part of what was created, we are part of The Creator and can (if we accept) return to that intent.