In a recent op-ed critiquing the aggressive rhetoric of the New Atheists, I quoted philosopher Daniel Dennett as saying "Anybody who goes through seminary and comes out believing in God hasn't been paying attention." It turns out that Dennett didn't say this; he was quoting a member of the clergy interviewed for his fascinating study, which describes how some preachers lose their faith but remain in their pulpits, preaching a gospel they no longer believe or perhaps have redefined beyond recognition.
Dennett has accused me of being a "faith fibber," a term applied to religious critics of the New Atheists who, in their enthusiasm to vilify non-believers, distort the truth. This is an ironic charge, since religious believers generally claim to be speaking from a higher moral ground. "Faith fibbers like Giberson," Dennett wrote, "are polluting the media with their misrepresentations of the New Atheism."
Dennett's charge, and a subsequent civil email exchange with him, got me thinking about the discourse on religious belief that currently heats up the blogosphere. As I reflect on the various exchanges, I see no evidence that religious believers are standing on any higher moral ground. The vilification of the New Atheists is accompanied by caricature, hyperbole, misprepresentation and a distinct lack of charity.
On the Answers in Genesis site, to take one example, Ken Ham published a report about the atheist that Christians love to hate entitled "Dawkins Ranting in Oklahoma." The audience was described as "mind-numbed robots," and Dawkins' ideas were sarcastically dismissed as communications from "an extraterrestrial." Anti-evolutionary religion sites across the Internet make similar claims. But not all the charged-up rhetoric is on the lowbrow backwaters of the Internet. A passage from the 2007 book "Oracles of Science: Celebrity Scientists versus God and Religion," compares Richard Dawkins to a "museum piece that becomes ever more interesting because, while everything else moves forward and changes, it remains the same."
Alas, I have to confess to having authored the museum metaphor. It was a cheap shot and, while hardly the cheapest of all possible shots, it was probably about as cheap as could reasonably sail past the staid editors at the venerable Oxford University Press. Certainly my co-author, the late Father Mariano Artigas, would have objected to anything less charitable.
I have to confess that the temptation to ridicule one's debating opponents is all but unbearable, especially when playing street hockey on the Internet, where one must shout to be heard. In the past few months I have tried hard to come up with clever rhetorical attacks on Jerry Coyne, Sam Harris, PZ Myers and countless others whose ideas I was supposedly challenging. PZ once wrote the following about me, which I thought was pretty clever: "I will have no truck with the perpetuation of fallacious illusions, whether honeyed or bitter, and consider the Gibersons of this world to be corruptors of a better truth." Of course, I responded to his evangelistic assault on me by calling him "Rev. Myers" in an essay on Salon.com. And so it goes. (I recommend against verbal swordfights with PZ Myers -- you can't win.)
But back to my point: Christians have rules, which presumably are still in force on the Internet: One of the best known is "Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you." And yet the rule that many Christians seem to follow when they lay their hands on their keyboards is quite different: "Ridicule your enemies; misrepresent those who hate you; caricature and malign those that mistreat you."
Or, as Daniel Dennett would put it, "Be a faith-fibber for Jesus."
Confession, they say, is good for the soul. So Dan, I was a faith fibber. Sorry about that.
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Karl Giberson, Ph.D: How Darwin Sustains My Baptist Search for Truth
"I am the way, the TRUTH, and the life,"
which I heard preachers of several denominations say means that Jesus has nothing to do with fraud & lies, and his followers should do likewise .... I'm still waiting for that to happen.
Otherwise, good article.
My response: Dennett is one astute dude.
From the article: "This is an ironic charge, since religious believers generally claim to be speaking from a higher moral ground."
Why is that ironic? They can claim to be speaking from any place they want, I don't care where they're speaking "from", I care what they're saying/doing, and what they're doing is exactly what Dennett says they're doing: distorting and misrepresenting, and the words Dennett may have been too polite to use, plain old, flat-out lying.
Feliz to me: Feliz: “Right -- because according to your rigidly dogmatic belief structure, I'm either an evangelical TV preacher kind of Christian or an enlightened, finally got the "TRUTH" atheist. So-- sure -- it must be disconcerting to find out that not all Christians subscribe to this televangelist crappolla. I don't fit into one of the two categories of religion you "believe" in -- evangelical or nothing.”
Blatantly false. I thought it was the voices in his head telling him this, or that he was arguing what someone else said and not what I said, but now I know: it was deliberate; it was faith-fibbing.
Quote ChaCubed: "Feliz, your constant criticism of Christians is disconcerting. [/quote]
Quote Feliz: " Right -- because according to your rigidly dogmatic belief structure, I'm either an evangelical TV preacher kind of Christian or an enlightened, finally got the "TRUTH" atheist. So-- sure -- it must be disconcerting to find out that not all Christians subscribe to this televangelist crappolla. I don't fit into one of the two categories of religion you "believe" in -- evangelical or nothing."
Quote Joe: "I am with feliz"
Good for you. Nobody is as critical of Christians as other Christians. Which is why I asked for at least one thing that all Christians agree on, so that I can address at least one Christian belief without insulting Christians who don't believe those things.
But I'm getting it, it's okay to criticize beliefs Christians hold, as long as you identify those beliefs to be the beliefs that the Christians your addressing don't hold, and you specifically name "those other" Christians in your comments, but I am NOT going to refer to them in the derogatory, dismissive terms which Feliz is so fond of, because I know a lot of Christians who believe the things I listed and they are not the un/undereducated, unknowledgable, simple-minded people Feliz, and you, if that is why you're "with" him, portrays them to be.
OK the 90's comment may have been an exageration, but it is history that the RCC persecuted science for a very, very long time.
inquiry, of course. Some great history books can fill you in, but their independent objectivity is rare.
Always ask, "What are they hiding?" Don't be anybody's sucker.
He wasn't lost.
Lying also steals others peace.
Lying also is slander.
Lying is also gossip.
Lying also starts wars.
Lying also causes suffering of the innocent , much pain sorrow and even death to others.
Lying cannot also gets others killed.(one 100s 1,000, million, billions)
Lying also feeds ones own greed, lusts, egos, vanity. pride.
Lying also prevents good to dwell in hope and move forward.
Lying can also steal what little one has.
Lying feeds ones jealousy.
Lying feeds ones hate of others.
All of the above is what God calls evils,Thou shall not lie.
And all of the best lies contain a core of truth...
Why do people hate lying so much? Lies seem to be at least half of all writing and speech these days.
Now for the Best Actress in a global drama, the award goes to Michelle Obama. Mrs. Obama cannot be here to thank anyone because she hasn't had her muzzle off in 20 months.
- Endor's Game
"Power comes from lying. Lying big and gettin' the whole damn world to play along with you. Once you get everybody agreeing with what they know in their hearts ain't true, you've got 'em by the balls."
- Sin City
"Understanding is a three edged sword. Your side, their side, and the truth."
- Kosh, Babylon 5
"Archaeology is the search for fact, not truth. If it's truth you're interested in, Dr. Tyree's philosophy class is right down the hall."
- Indiana Jones
"many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view"
- Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Now wait a minute, Susie. Just because every child can't get his wish that doesn't mean there isn't a Santa Claus."
- Miracle on 34th Street
And I hate to judge, but I don't think the author's apology was sincere.
:)
Feliz, either the voices in your head are yellling so loud that you can't hear anything else, or your reading someone else's mind, or your mind-reading abilities suc.
If you are capable of reading and comprehending my words over the din in your mind: again, you are the one who constantly criticizes Christians who are not up to your standards - it's not me doing it, it's you.
Will you do me one courtesy? You have already made it clear what you think about what evangelical Christians, and 6th grade level pew sitting Christians, and Southern Christians, and all the Christians which you hold in such disdain believe; and you have made it clear about what you think I think and your perception of my comments; so please don't go into a rant about what other people think again, please: just tell me which of these beliefs I listed don't you embrace, which ones did you find so offensive that you are responding this way and why? You obviously believe that your beliefs are superior to the Christians you mock, in what way? What makes you think that your beliefs are so much better than theirs? And, by the way, WHAT ARE YOUR BELIEFS?
"He's right, we have nothing to offer those who choose to hang onto beliefs in God and gods. We have nothing to offer those who want a reward in an afterlife for those they believe have earned rewards and punishment in an afterlife for those who they believe deserve punishment. We have nothing to offer those who choose to believe that there is a power which runs things and makes sure everything is as it should be, who also can be influenced by their pleas or sacrifices or following the rules. We have nothing to offer to those who chooseto believe that something besides themselves and those who love them love them. We have nothing to offer those who choose to believe God is influencing humans when they do good and Devil is influencing them when they do bad."
But that doesn't make sense either: you are convinced that I'm criticizing the same Christians which you criticize, but you argue with me and call me dogmatic, and yourself not-dogmatic, when we are, in your mind, doing the same thing.