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Ken Solin

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The Odds are Against Women Who Marry Divorced Men

Posted: 10/19/11 01:43 PM ET

Statistically for men, second marriages fail at a much higher rate than first marriages. The reason is simple, and it's critical every woman contemplate it before marrying a divorced man. Many men fail to glean the lessons from their failed marriages and consequently never heal their wounds. Many aren't even aware they're the walking wounded. Boomer women might consider not wasting time and energy in doomed relationships with zombies who are just going through the motions.

Why don't more men work through their anger and pain after divorce? Most don't know how to, where to, or even what it means to work through it. What I offer is experiential information gleaned over twenty years working with men in small groups.

Individual therapy can help a man move beyond his pain and anger. But that's generally a long, drawn-out process, and its success heavily depends on the caliber of the therapist. Considering the cost, and that a relatively small percentage of therapists are competent, that's just rolling the dice. There's far too much credence given to therapy as the universal solution for resolving divorce issues. What I offer is a better, tried and true method for men to work through their pain and anger from divorce, and it's absolutely free.

In the first year that my men's group met, four of the eight men divorced. While that sounds like a disaster scenario, that fifty-percent number accurately reflects the national percentage for divorce. No one encouraged these men to divorce, but what they had, that few other men have, was an unconditional peer support system. When men raged against the women they felt wronged them, they were encouraged instead to talk about the pain they were experiencing that was behind that rage.

The men encouraged each other to talk about their divorce issues until they were able to clearly see their roles in their failed marriages. For two men this was a fairly rapid process. For two men who avoided dealing with their pain, healing, not surprisingly, remained elusive. In the end, the two men who had focused on their behavior were ready to date. The other two who chose to ignore their behavior and blame their ex-wives instead, didn't move past their pain. They were more interested in finding women to comfort them, which of course, is a guarantied recipe for relationship disaster.

All four men remarried. The two who had worked through their divorce issues married terrific women who appreciated that their new partners had come into their relationships healed and emotionally whole. Their marriages remain solid nearly two decades later. The two men who hadn't worked through their divorce issues were not surprisingly, the first to remarry. One divorced in under a year. The other remains in a dysfunctional marriage. You can lead a horse to water, but...

What kind of man ignores the truth about his emotional well-being and forges ahead blindly? A man who's okay with inflicting his relationship issues on his next wife, not a particularly desirable wedding gift. If you're a woman thinking about marrying a divorced guy, particularly a recently divorced guy, think again, unless you know with some certainty he's done the healing work.

Whether you're a man or a woman, ignoring the obvious and hoping for the best seems foolish considering the amount of available, worthwhile relationship information. Over 50 men and women are too seasoned and experienced to simply ignore the statistics. I strongly believe there's great magic in marriage, but it's the kind of magic that's relies on careful choices, not pulling a rabbit out of a hat.

The numbers aren't in your favor if you throw caution to the wind and proceed glibly. Want to know where he is in the divorce healing process? Ask him, and listen carefully to his answer, and then decide whether or not you feel he's a good bet. Considering the brutal second-marriage, male divorce statistics, that just seems smart.

 
 
 
Statistically for men, second marriages fail at a much higher rate than first marriages. The reason is simple, and it's critical every woman contemplate it before marrying a divorced man. Many men fai...
Statistically for men, second marriages fail at a much higher rate than first marriages. The reason is simple, and it's critical every woman contemplate it before marrying a divorced man. Many men fai...
 
 
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12:50 PM on 11/17/2011
Ken - I for one thought this article was pretty spot on :)
12:15 PM on 11/05/2011
Ken, I'm not sure you did your research on this one, given your rather small and personal sample size, I think you have gotten the wrong idea about the prospect of second marriages. According to a recent article in the Wall Street Journal (http://on.wsj.com/ofmylV), second marriages are lasting and satisfying. While they might not last as long as some first marriages, this is usually because they start later in life and end with the passing of a partner.

It is hard enough to get my clients (women over 40) to get out there to meet people, and reading depressing articles like this exacerbates the problem. Be kind, be motivating and be informed - second marriages work with partners who have done the healing work and are ready for a mature, healthy, loving relationship. xoxo Ronnie Ann Ryan - The Dating Coach www.nevertoolate.biz
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Ken Solin
01:09 PM on 11/05/2011
Ronnie, we're actually in total agreement. The success of second marriages for men is mostly about whether or not they have done the healing work after divorce. Rather than discourage women, i simply suggest they ask prospective husbands appropriate questions about their failed marriages.
Information is power, and when Boomers decide to take the marital plunge, they need all the pertinent information they can garner.
What seems depressing to me, is a woman who marries a man who purports to be "fine" after his divorce, but isn't, and she ends up having to deal with the issues he failed to address while or after he was married. While i only quoted one article, there are many more than offer the same dismal statistics.
Keep up the good work, Ronnie.
10:17 PM on 11/05/2011
Ken, Thanks for the insight. Perhaps I'm reacting to the headline then - "the odds are against women" is a bit tough regardless of what follows. It's good to know we are in agreement about post divorce healing and making smart choices. Perhaps the headline could have been - Thinking of getting remarried? Choose Your Husband Wisely. Thanks again Ken.
01:19 PM on 11/02/2011
"Statistically for men, second marriages fail at a much higher rate than first marriages. "

Where is the link ? Can you provide a link ?
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Ken Solin
06:26 PM on 11/02/2011
Here's the link.http://www.terryreal.com/press/pdfs/marriage_divorce_in_america-FS.pdf Men divorce from first marriages at 50%, and second marriages at 61%. There are many other statistics available, and most are higher than the percentages shown in this study. What's most intriguing are the reasons for the failure of so many men's second marriages. Mostly, it's as i wrote, that men fail to learn from their relationship mistakes and carry those issues into their second marriages. Incidentally, the divorce rate for men in third marriages is nearly 70%, which continues to make my point.

http://www.terryreal.com/press/pdfs/marriage_divorce_in_america-FS.pdf
11:20 AM on 11/03/2011
http://www.dvmen.org/dv-35.htm
05:21 AM on 11/02/2011
We agree. Men must be very very careful with whom they seek a relationship with. So many women are looking for a free ride gravy train meal ticket from the man or by exploiting his child for unearned income and manic control. Sad but true.
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Carlyn Craig
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01:49 AM on 11/04/2011
This is such a misogynistic position. Do some women marry guys just for support. Yes. But I know many who either contributed significantly or were the main bread winners for large parts, if not all, of their marriages. And the women in this group who divorced didn't end-up with the lions share of the wealth they helped create or alimony after the fact. One women who comes to mind worked for her husband's business for years, doing his books, chasing after customers when they didn't pay, etc. She received no wage and when they divorced, she ended-up with well under half their joint wealth and no support whatsoever, as her kids were by then 17 and 19.

Perhaps we don't hear about this because 1) women shoulder such burdens as a matter of course and 2) women are often sensitive to the "fragile" egos of the men they are with, so down play their contribution while deliberately inflating their husband's contributions.

What I find interesting, as I contemplate the women I know representing several generations (the oldest would be in her 90s now), is that none held onto anger and resentment over the money they had earned or how they were exploited. Some were still angry, it's true, but always about relationship betrayals, or the lack of relationship these men had with their children after divorce. The money? Well, most would agree, you can't take it with you.
08:03 PM on 11/01/2011
It's sooo true. I almost dated one guy and didn't see the signs at first. I didn't feel much chemistry. Few years later, everytime I bump into him, especially during holiday times, I realized he STILL couldn't stand not to talk badly about his ex. I think at some level men egos are bruised, once and for good..The more masculin the man is, the harder it is for him to let "the failure" go away. And the worst part of it, from the setup of divorce in America I thiink it's kind of an impossible job to move on with 50 50 shared custody, nagging ex for more supports, mother's father's day, the past life basically stays there, just not in one roof. The best solution is to decide only one person to take full custody,or at least the other is to support only financially. At the end of the day, you can't please everyone, pick a side and move on. Others can judge and let them, one day when the kids grow up, then let them choose.
05:03 PM on 10/31/2011
Statistics and generalities are only relevant if you know WHY these things exist. Men or women, it doesn't matter...the point is an individual's ability to be self-aware and to be able to see things objectively and honestly - to be able to take blame where blame is due, to see YOUR mistakes and to be willing to grow and learn from them. The fact that more women initiate divorce means that more men get blindsided by it, making them defensive and perhaps less likely to be introspective and learn from it. As a woman who initiated her divorce, I can tell you that I'd been concentrating on correcting my mistakes and growing as a person for years, and I had decided at the time that I would rather be alone than be in a difficult relationship. I realized and accepted the blame of my mistakes and spent a lot of time and energy learning how to avoid making the same mistakes again. I think what this article is saying is to make sure that the mistakes of the first marriage do not follow you into the second one - the use of statistics and generalities is secondary...you need to be aware and alert to the fact that the divorced man you are with may not have come to terms with why their first marriage failed. You can also apply that to women and to anyone who was in a long-term relationship. Oh, and look in the mirror, too.
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Carlyn Craig
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01:51 AM on 11/04/2011
Well said.
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rbspickles
03:15 PM on 10/31/2011
Recently divorced men don't want a partner in life, they want a surrogate "mother" to cook, clean and take care of things for them. That's why divorced men remarry more often and much faster than divorced women. Most men thinks it's the woman who are supposed to pick up most of the responsibilities of the relationship so they blame her for most of the problems. Then comes the"she just doesn't understand" syndrome. Believe me, yes we do!
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Targa3141
02:48 AM on 10/28/2011
Divorced men usually have greedy, vindictive ex-wives who are privileged in family court relative to men.

It's no wonder these poor men have trouble in second marriages.

The fact that they are getting married twice should be cause for concern and the possibility of mental illness or some neurological disorder that results in poor self-image and masochistic behavior.
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Carlyn Craig
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01:52 AM on 11/04/2011
I'm glad to hear that you will be remaining single!
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jaggeththewires
God said what?
03:34 PM on 10/27/2011
Well one good reason for failure is that most of their first wives are still alive. That mean they committing adultery with the second one!
10:58 AM on 10/27/2011
This outlook/advice or whatever you want to call it, definitely applies to both men and women. With the exception of abusive spouses, marital issues are rarely one-sided. Both men and women need to take the time to reflect on why the marriage failed and what their part in it was. My ex and I had a very amicable divorce and remain friends because we realize we both contributed to screwing things up between us. We brought out the best in each other, but we also brought out the worst. We worked on our issues/baggage so that we could be better partners in the relationships that followed.
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LynneE
A not-so-elite liberal.
01:44 AM on 10/29/2011
Kudos. Live and learn (hopefully).
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CBasilJr
62 Retired Vet
01:57 AM on 10/29/2011
To me the problem is that many men and women spring from marriage to marriage where the main focus is sex instead of friendship.
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Carlyn Craig
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01:59 AM on 11/04/2011
I agree with you, except that you have to add in mental health factors to why some marriages fail. You can't blame the functioning spouse if they finally give-up on a marriage because their partner is not functioning.
10:03 AM on 11/07/2011
I guess it depends. If the person is bi-polar or has a pre-existing mental issue, sure. However, people can have mental breakdowns due to stress, and if that stress is caused by the other spouse or problems in the marriage between the two that is a different story. To add to that, there are some people who would take the "in sickness and in health" clause of the vows to include mental conditions, though not everybody would have the strength to endure that kind of strain; which can be just as hard on the caregiver. I know I probably couldn't hack it.
09:39 AM on 10/27/2011
The odds certainly were against me, i just didn't know it at the time. My first marriage has just failed; it was his second. In hindsight, I realize that had I spent a bit more time in discussing his feelings, viewpoints, lessons learned from his first failed marriage (due to his affair), it would've shed more light on the man I married. It turns out I never did know him.

My first piece of advice to someone who was marrying another who had a previous marriage, would be to discuss it, discuss it, discuss it. If he/she is resistent to discussion, that is very telling. It likely means they have not visited the topic sufficiently. Rugswept it.

Sure, it can be pure emotional hell trying to understand what happened to a failed marriage. This process is not meant to be easy. But it has a purpose: to heal before moving on again. Its crucial to learn your part in the failed marriage, and even more importantly, what part that is not your responsibility.
When we move on too quickly to have our wounds licked by someone else, (in my case my husband dove immediately into a relationship with the women with whom he had the marriage ending affair), it means the work was never done. I think its imperative to heal first, preferably alone for a period of time, before we have any right to bring someone else into our hell of unfinished, unresolved emotional baggage. Its only fair.
07:10 PM on 10/24/2011
I was looking for statistics on divorce, wondering if the statistics were worse for men than women for second marriages. I ran across one statistic that was really interesting. Apparently, males who are in a same sex marriage are 50% more likely to get divorced than a heterosexual couple. Females in a same sex marriage are 167% more likely to divorce than a heterosexual couple. We know already that women file somewhere between two thirds and three quarters of all divorces. Is it because men are so bad? They can't even stay married to each other.

We should learn from our mistakes in our previous marriages. What I don't like about this article is that it seems that this guy is saying that men must come to grips with the fact that their divorces were their fault or they'll never be succeed in marriage. Come on, marriage is a two way street. Those of us who are divorced probably all made mistakes and weren't as good as spouses as we could have been, regardless of our gender. Women are the ones most likely to be unhappy in marriage though. Could it be that we men aren't always the cause of the dissatisfaction our wives have in our marriages? Women who marry women can't stay married. Maybe it isn't always us.
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Ken Solin
12:18 PM on 10/25/2011
Thanks for your comment. My point is this: Few men bother to examine their roles in their first divorces, and consequently bring all their baggage from marriage number one into marriage number two.
While this is true for some women too, most do the emotional work around their first divorces with other women and glean some lessons.
When men understand that being in touch with their emotions isn't a sign of weakness, but is in fact a sign of strength, their second marriage divorce rates will fall.
02:42 PM on 10/25/2011
Ken, are you saying that second marriage divorce rates are worse for men than women? I agree that we need to accept respinsibility for our mistakes and failures in our failed marriages, but, it seems as though you think it's pretty much the fault of men that their marriages fail. It sounds like you don't feel like the men you counsel are healed unless they accept the blame for the demise of their marriages. Do you think it's always the man's fault?

I look at divorce rates and how at least twice as many women than men file for divorce, and I have to wonder if maybe it's women who just don't get it. Maybe they expect way too much, and don't appreciate what they have. I think men probably do more for women today than they ever have. I handle a lot of immigration cases now as a lawyer and I deal with so many men bringing "old fashioned" wives from different countries. They're sick of spoiled American women. And when I talk to these women I often hear that American men are much sweeter to them than the old fashioned men from their countries and do so much more to help them around the house. I heard this recently from a psychologist from a wealthy family in Brazil when talking about her American husband. I know I sure as heck did a whole lot more than my father or my ex father-in-law.
02:45 PM on 10/25/2011
I do think we can all learn from our failures though. I know I could have been a better husband. I tried very hard, but I didn't really know my wife. We didn't communicate. She's just not a talker, doesn't do deep emotional conversations. She puts a smile on her face to get through the day and keeps everything pretty shallow. Even her best girlfriends will tell you she's incredibly difficult to read. I took the smile at face value mostly, like an idiot. I knew there were many things she didn't like about me though, even the way I crunched chips, and I tried to remedy as many of those issues as possible. I was actually very sweet to her too and worked very hard to please her, but I misread so many signs and I wasn't expending my efforts very effectively. I was working hard, but I wasn't working smart. I had no clue things were as bad as they were and I had no clue really how to make things better. I was completely shocked to learn that she didn't love me anymore, had been miserable with me and had been having an affair for over a year when she told me she wanted a divorce. My whole universe just collapsed. I damned sure don't ever want to go through that again and will learn from my mistakes and will work hard to see that it doesn't happen again. I think it would kill me.
03:18 PM on 10/24/2011
I don't think anyone escapes divorce unscathed. I divorced my husband nearly 20 years ago and was so hurt by his abuse, which included emotional abuse - including adultery - and physical abuse, that I have stayed away from men, period. I realize by now that not all men do these things, but looking around at my friends' marriages, many men certainly do. For myself, I'll never marry again; not worth risking your physical and mental health for, but I stand behind those that try, anyway. I don't know whether they're brave or foolish, but I wouldn't do it. I might date. I have been considering dating a divorced man for a while, but as I read the nasty comments left by the men here, I'm rapidly realizing I need to forget about it. He's probably bitter and angry and will find new and ingenious ways to punish any woman he spends time with.
07:34 PM on 10/24/2011
Maybe he's bitter and angry, maybe not. Maybe he has bitterness over his divorce but will be so much happier with a woman who is good to him. Everyone has baggage, especially as we get older. Even those who haven't been married have probably been in long term relationships, and wouldn't you think that someone in his forties or fifties who has never been married might have something wrong with him? You might find a divorced man who tried very hard to please his ex wife who just didn't love him. Maybe he was cheated on and dumped, but he's been well trained by his spoiled ex wife and he'll treat you way better than you've ever been treated. Oh, and women cheat like crazy these days and women who emotionally abuse their husbands are not uncommon at all. Women actually physically abuse men more than is reported too. I've seen that as a lawyer. Maybe you need to find a guy whose been on the receiving end of emotional abuse with an ungrateful and unfaithful wife. You both might find each other to be way better and more understanding and loving than anyone either of you have ever been with. Divorced guys aren't all bad.
02:46 AM on 10/25/2011
Well, as I said, I know all men don't do these things, but I also think it very risky business to find out which ones do or don't. I've also learned, after all this time, that being single isn't the curse that the media makes it out to be. I realize that men also find it difficult to move on after a painful relationship, but physical safety may not be the issue for them that it is for women. I'm 5'4" and my ex-husband is 6'3" and had no compunction about using his size and physical strength to try to control me. I don't think men face that same risk to the extent that women do. Additionally, we had 3 children under 5 years old at the time, and we were financially dependent upon him, since I was home with them. When the marriage ended, he left us with next to nothing, and refused to pay child support until he was tracked down and made to. It was extemely difficult at times, but the children are grown and we made it. Not well, at times, but we made it. Now, when I actually think dating might be okay, I read some of these comments, and they seem so angry. It scares me because I remember what a lot of men do when they're angry. Maybe it never goes away.
06:21 PM on 10/26/2011
Maybe.
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Morrisfactor
Just a little bent
09:33 PM on 10/26/2011
Averagedancer-

"He's probably bitter and angry and will find new and ingenious ways to punish any woman he spends time with"

Gee, that seems a little harsh. No doubt there are a lot of walking wounded men out here, both bitter and angry at their ex-wives and the Family Court system, but that does not translate into "finding new and ingenious ways to punish any women".

Most men are like you, they realize "not all women do these things" and try to find someone nicer and better suited the second time around.

I know lots of guys who were reamed by the divorce system, but none of them are like that, and some have been happily living with new mates for decades.
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rbspickles
03:24 PM on 10/31/2011
actually most abusers don't let anyone know they hit their wives so you wouldn't know who's abusing whom. Been there and it sounds like this women's had it really bad. Until you've been on the receiving end of an irrational raging bull coming after you because you didn't fold his tshirt right then don't judge. When and if she's ever ready, she'll know it.
08:44 AM on 10/24/2011
Was dating a divorced man.........now I know why his wife divorced him. He used to joke about what the ex wanted from him as a husband etc...........I used to stick up for him. Now I understand that he is not willing to make any changes, learn anything from the divorce, not care about the needs of his significant other. Great dad though..........but to the point of being obsessive....where there is no priorty given to me whatsoever. So, all I am saying...if you know what the issues were in his previous marriage....chances are he may carry those same negative attributes to his second
07:53 PM on 10/24/2011
He probably will carry some or all of those with him. Women do the same. If you ask a man why he was divorced, odds are he'll mostly or completely blame it on his ex wife. His ex wife will have a completely different take on it. It was pretty much all his fault. He was pig headed, neglected her, etc. There just is no perfect man and there is no perfect woman. Hopefully we learn from our failed relationships. Some people don't. Divorced men are not worse than men who have never married, and the older the man (or woman) is you really have to wonder why they haven't ever married. If you've never had kids, you might want to stick with men whose kids are grown or who don't have kids, because kids will be a huge priority for most men that have kids. If they aren't, something's not right. I have kids and personally I wouldn't want to be with a woman who didn't have kids because she'd never understand that my kids have to be priority # 1 so much of the time. Fortunately I found a woman with grown kids who competely gets it.
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Shaun Hensley
The American Experiment has failed
04:32 PM on 10/26/2011
Were you making changes yourself?
12:25 PM on 10/22/2011
Who are these supposed to marry. It was her second marriage, my first. We were married mid to late thirties. Personallly I did hold it againist her she had been divorced. Most of the unmarried women in their thirties were unmarried for reason. The same could be said for unmaaried men of that age. I have seen alot of second marraiges work out better. The important thing is to find out why they divorced are tehy still on go terms witrh former spouse and are they over same. One women I dated had so much hate for ex husband I knew that a marraige to her would probably b doomed