Similar arguments can be made about the many other tactics, techniques, pieces of legislation, and foreign policy agendas used in the past 8 years.(i.e. warrantless wiretapping, suspension of habeas corpus, Patriot Act I and II, preemptive war based on unsubstantiated and fabricated information, etc.) All of which were carried out and rammed down our throats in the name of "keeping us safe" from the terrorists.
Yes, for 8 years we were told to trust the likes of Dick Cheney who hissed that torture, warrantless wiretapping, the suspension of habeas corpus, the Patriot Act, etc. had all been necessary tools in our nation's arsenal against terrorism. Torture, warrantless wiretapping, the Patriot Act -- they all saved lives and prevented another 9/11.
Really?
Let's see the proof.
Now that we have a Democrat President and Congress, perhaps it is time to show proof to the American people about just how effective Bush tactics really were in keeping us safe. No roadblocks should exist for a Congress and President who want to right the wrongs and clear up the abuses of the past 8 years. So let's start with transparency, de-classification, and lots of accountability if need be. Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
Specifically, what is the proof that torture kept us safe for 8 years? Let's see the documents of the interviews detailing and revealing the threats and imminent plots that were averted.
And if State Secrets is to be wielded as the excuse to not release such information, it should be strenuously argued that any secret information gathered years ago is now out of date and no longer operational or tactical in nature. Clearly, any sources and methods mentioned 7 years ago would already have been capitalized upon and out of circulation. In other words, national security should no longer be an excuse for blocking the free flow of such information.
So let's throw the facts on the table and release the records. Wouldn't you like to see and judge what Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Ramzi Binalsheibh, bin Attash, and the many others had to say? Wouldn't it be interesting to assess whether the information gathered and relied upon should have been deemed credible and reliable in nature? Because what if it wasn't?
What if every piece of information gathered through torture was absolute bunk? Have you considered the ramifications?
Admittedly, we cannot go back and erase what happened from history but we can learn from what happened. In particular, the Bush torture practices and policies warrant serious public examination--an examination where accountability should flow to those who issued and/or crafted the Orders not those who merely followed along. Because that is the best way to learn lessons from the past and ensure that similar mistakes are not made by future Administrations.
Remember one of VP Cheney's key goals back in 2001 was to strengthen the Office of the President. And so he did for 8 long years leaving our Constitution and country in shambles. Well, now it's time to dial back the works of Dick Cheney.
Recall the eloquent speeches made by the Democrats while in the minority. They cried out against Cheney's power grab and spoke of the danger that such absolute power posed to the precious balance of powers established by our Founding Fathers.
Now that the Democrats are in control, they must dismantle the absolute, unchecked power transferred to the Oval Office during the Bush years. Cheney's work needs to be undone. Because such boundless Executive power is dangerous in any Administration--and not just the outwardly reckless, agenda-driven Republican ones. We must not forget that.
No, we must not simply "move forward."
Hearing that sentiment took me back to President Bush, VP Cheney, and their Republican counterparts soon after the 9/11 attacks when many of us were looking for a healthy examination into pre-9/11 intelligence failures and were refused. At the time many Americans were too blinded by their fear to dissent.
Today, as we await the historical inauguration of Barack Obama, let's not be blinded by our hope. All failures--especially those of leadership-- must be examined. People must be held accountable. And, transparency must become the norm.
Seems like one of the highest priorities, not just to prove what we already know, but also to analyze and understand what he did so we can understand what we are really up against. It will not be easy, minefields, false leads and dead end trails and set-ups will be everywhere.
I think they (FBI and CIA heads) conspired to ignore the 9/11 perpetrators even though they knew what was afoot, and remembering Watergate and knowing how to do it, destroyed all evidence. Furthermore I think they were in on the Millennium Plot which was foiled by a smart woman at the Canadian border. Purpose of both plots: Embarrass Clinton and make Bush a hero. Had the Millenium Plot succeeded it would also have allowed Bush to win without Sandra Day O'Conner's help.
Since I got this from Kristen's book I would especially like to know her views. As for a day of judgment I also think the CIA and the mob used Oswald to kill Kennedy and you'll note that they got away with that little caper.
I think this is an excellent post. I'm just confused why you didn't consider Leon Panetta's shared beliefs when you analyzed your concerns about his "spook qualifications." After all, it's the insiders who look the other way regarding torture and the Geneva Convention.
Your ignorance on this topic is breath taking.
Educate your self:
http://www.upi.com/Emerging_Threats/2009/01/12/Analysis_Obama_picks_outsider_for_CIA_job/UPI-17231231812114/
Getalifealready!
Yes--"plausible deniability". So why bother with the charade of a "Republic" at all?
Was this done "off the grid", too?
http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2008/08/20/the-ghost-in-the-machines-the-mystery-of-the-wtc-hard-drive-recoveries/
Name one manufactured Terrorist group we are fighting today, and it is almost certain these are CIA-assets (there is essentially no difference between Pentagon and CIA in this situation) that belong to the demented previously called as Shadow-gov.
This goes back to the "Stay Behind" NATO military, that during the Cold War Western-gov's used (as in Italy) killing their own citizens, and blaming on Communists.
The greatest terrorist threat to America today, are found within our own government.
I really like and respect you; however, you were a Republican for too long. It's not Democrat President and Congress. It's Democratic President and Congress. Democrat is a noun, and Democratic is an adjective. The term Democrat used as an adjective is a pejorative used by the Republicans to insult us Democrats.
Sincerely and with love,
Kitty Hegemann
Kitty was very politely making a correction. What have you got against accuracy?
I would like to have the same hope (Democrats will change things), however concerning the DEM/GOP Hierarchy that are two cheeks on the same arse, both DEM and GOP parties have been passing along an un-Constitutional "Emergency War Powers" to the Executive-Office for the past 65 years.
Both DEM/GOP Presidents have used this 'Power' for many other things other than making war un-Constitutionally (without Constitutionally Congressional mandated Declaration of war).
The DEM/GOP Presidents using this power to 'make law', and here the Constitution says only Congress has the power to make-law. However as long as both DEM/GOP hierarchy kiss arse, it makes little difference.
What I'm saying is after years of criticizing Bush/Cheney for expanding and abusing the powers of the executive branch, now that their guy is in there I wouldn't be surprised if they suddenly embrace it.
The United States of America is better than any patriot acts, warrantless wiretapping and torture will presume to make us. It's failed US policy and the Bush/Cheney administration will be reviled down through US and world history.
Might does not make right. Repeat as necessary. War is not the answer. Repeat as necessary.
It was singular terrorist to begin with and down the line this was looked at from all sides and debunked.
You do sound like a true red republican. One who hears a soundbite, that suits you, and runs with it to the bitter end.
http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2008/12/18/clock-stoppers/
"Let's see the proof", indeed.
http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2008/08/16/black-box/