iPhone app iPad app Android phone app Android tablet app More

Featuring fresh takes and real-time analysis from HuffPost's signature lineup of contributors
Kristian Ramos

GET UPDATES FROM Kristian Ramos
 

When Border Alarmist Talking Points Go Wrong

Posted: 07/26/2012 9:38 am

"The sky is falling," is a familiar refrain from politicians on both sides of the aisle when it comes to, well just about everything in an election year. Such is the case when it comes to our southwest border region.

Despite numerous reports showing a marked decrease in violence in the region, members of Congress continue to characterize the region as an out of control war zone. An example of this phenomenon is Congressman Jason Chaffetz (R) of Utah's 3rd District who recently got into a heated exchange with the Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano at a recent Judiciary Committee Hearing. During the exchange, the Congressman made several erroneous statements about Nogales, AZ a city along the border. Rep Chaffetz stated:

"Well, this is from the Nogales Department of Police. Let me read some numbers: 2009 to 2010, burglary up 82 percent, thefts up 113 percent, thefts from auto up 132 percent, grand theft auto up 70 percent, aggravated assaults up 76 percent, assaults up 81 percent, and damage to property up 81 percent. It doesn't sound like this is the most secure border that we've ever had."

While Rep. Chaffetz gets points for theatricality, his use of "facts" leave something to be desired. According to a recent report issued by the Nogales Police Department, 459 major felony offenses were committed within city limits in 2010, down from 515 in 2009. Nogales Police Chief Jeffrey Kirkham adds. "The numbers were low to begin with. Anytime you have a reduction in felony crimes of double digits, you're looking at a pretty good year."

Furthermore according to the same report, there were no homicides or rapes reported in the city in 2010, closely mirroring 2009 when there were no homicides and one rape, and robberies remained unchanged at five. At the same time, aggravated assaults fell from 60 to 46, burglaries dropped from 137 to 112, and vehicle thefts declined from 135 to 97.

Put another way when using data from the Nogales Police Department City Yearly Crime Statistics has been even more successful to decrease crime in this border city. For example, the number of damaged properties decreased 64 percent from 2009 to 2011 while assaults decreased 31 percent and thefts dropped by five percent.

These figures are also of great alarm and surprise to Congressman Raul Grijalva, who notes: "Perception and politics. Most members of Congress come to the border, stand by the wall, take a picture and say I'm tough on illegal entrants and leave." Congressman Grijalva further noted that this should be an issue about job creation and that politicians should look to beefing up the border's ability to handle legal traffic north and south of the border for the business stimulus it brings.

The Mayor of Nogales Arturo GariƱo has also expressed anger about these types of statements: "This damages our economy - driving visitors away and leaving our businesses and residents to suffer. The facts show that violent crime is down or remains flat in our border region."

At the end of the day the figures Rep. Chaffetz cites as from the Nogales Police Department do not actually comport with the crime statistics made available on the Nogales Police Department's website. Again, according to last year's report and figures from the Nogales Police Department website serious crime fell by 11% between 2009 and 2010. Here are some other facts for Rep. Chaffetz, Arizona does around $10.68 billion in trade with Mexico. How on earth can the Congressman from Utah, generalize this area as anything other then secure given the existing statistics and the level of trade which currently flows through the region? Short answer: he just read his talking points and didn't bother to check the facts.

 

Follow Kristian Ramos on Twitter: www.twitter.com/kramos1841

FOLLOW LATINO VOICES
"The sky is falling," is a familiar refrain from politicians on both sides of the aisle when it comes to, well just about everything in an election year. Such is the case when it comes to our southwes...
"The sky is falling," is a familiar refrain from politicians on both sides of the aisle when it comes to, well just about everything in an election year. Such is the case when it comes to our southwes...
 
 
  • Comments
  • 38
  • Pending Comments
  • 0
  • View FAQ
Comments are closed for this entry
View All
Favorites
Recency  | 
Popularity
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Fred Bronson
America Unite, Export and Deport
01:02 PM on 07/30/2012
Have you ever heard the saying don't crab in your back yard, go to the neighbors. The same saying applies here. If you dont want to be noticed don't cause trouble in your town go to some one elses. That's just what's going on. It may be quite in AZ but other areas with a large number of illegals it's not so peacefully.
06:25 AM on 07/30/2012
Quote me some crime statistics from just across the border in Ciudad Juarez. 35,000 murdered in 4 years. I don't think we're being alarmist enough. That's in our backyard right now and its just a matter of time (especially with Obama's look the other way immigration policies) until that violence spills across the border onto U.S. soil.
jessdog
Occupiers Are Not Victims.
12:02 PM on 07/30/2012
Hasn't happen! So sleep well.
03:15 PM on 07/29/2012
The Republican Chamber of Commerce wanted cheap labor for decades.

This is what they now have.
03:14 PM on 07/29/2012
The time has come for the Mexican government to provide the necessary jobs, services and safety for their people rather than exporting them.

The Mexican government has failed to provide the jobs, safety and services that the people need.

If they had the people would not be leaving in droves.

The Mexican people need to demand better from their government.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ugly american
"I drank what?"- Last words of Socrates
02:37 PM on 07/28/2012
The number of arrests for crimes by illegal aliens is going down because ICE and CBP are required to let them go if them claim to have attended school and graduated or gotten a GED in the US. It would seem that no matter what they did, they are not to be detained by immigration authorities.
This is not a reduction in crime but a reduction in enforcement.
jessdog
Occupiers Are Not Victims.
12:11 PM on 07/30/2012
You are wrong with your false comment. My brother works for is an ICE agent inside of a county jail, I showed him your comment. He told me to you any illegal or legal resident arrested for a felony is automatically detained and held. Don't let the hatred you have for Latinos blind you from the facts.
09:44 AM on 07/28/2012
I see that both sides are talking past each other. The Rep Chaffetz uses the stats from 2009 and 2010, and the other use more recent stats. Using both figures, it would seem that the border fence the pro-illegals fought so hard against is doing its job. One can see that as illegal entrants decrease, so did the CRIME. It is rather disingenuous for the pro-illegals to use the fact that crime is down as proof of their contention that the border is secure and that we did not need a fence. In fact, the decrease in crime came about at the same time as the flood of illegals has diminished. I think that they are connected and that we need MORE fencing.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Chief Johnson2
We, Hispanics, are the future.
10:03 AM on 07/29/2012
Not really, the crime has been in constant decline in Arizona in the last decade, even in the pick of the immigration between 2000 to 2005.
09:26 AM on 07/27/2012
As long as ILLEGAL ALIENS are in our country we need to beef up our borders.
02:16 PM on 07/28/2012
Yes, you wouldn't want them to get out...
photo
spytheweb
Black Democrat
11:04 PM on 07/26/2012
Numbers go down when you stop enforcing the law.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
AAHewetson
Intelligence is just fine with me
05:37 PM on 07/26/2012
I have been birdwatching, alone, along the US/Mexico border in Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas for thirty years. I have taken twelve trips to the border in Arizona, from 1983 to 2011; eight trips to the border in New Mexico, from 1997 to 2011; and eighteen trips to the border in Texas, from 1998 to 2012. I have encountered illegal aliens crossing into the US - and back into Mexico - at least a dozen times. I accidentally crossed the border once, myself, from Arizona to Mexico a good many years ago. In Texas, I have camped within feet of the river, at least a dozen times. I have never encountered a single problem ... despite the fact that I was carrying, plainly visible, over a thousand dollars worth of optical equipment.

I have birdwatched in Florida twice. The first time I was mugged twice - in a one week period - both times in the Miami area; once by a white dude, once by a black dude. The second time my rental car was broken into three times - in a ten day period - once in Miami, once in Key West, and once near Petersburg.

I saw more drug deals go down, on a daily basis, when I lived in northeast Portland (Oregon) than I have seen, cumulatively, during the weeks spent along the US/Mexico border.

I guess I have just been terribly lucky.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
dtairtime
It is what it is
07:34 PM on 07/27/2012
Keep going - eventually you'll get to enjoy the truth.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Chief Johnson2
We, Hispanics, are the future.
10:02 AM on 07/29/2012
You don't get it, do you?
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Elecktra001
PC assassin
04:21 PM on 07/29/2012
"I saw more drug deals go down, on a daily basis, when I lived in northeast Portland (Oregon) than I have seen, cumulatively, during the weeks spent along the US/Mexico border."

-----
Where do you think the drugs are coming from?
jessdog
Occupiers Are Not Victims.
12:13 PM on 07/30/2012
Colombia!
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
AAHewetson
Intelligence is just fine with me
01:43 PM on 07/30/2012
A lot of drugs in the Pacific Northwest come through the ports of Seattle and Portland.
whochi
Liberals think 2 + 2 = Bush
04:54 PM on 07/26/2012
From 1983 to about 2002 the population doubled and so did it's violent crime rate. Population has continued to climb another 10% but violent crime leveled off and did in fact decline and significantly after the American economy crashed and illegal crossings lessened.

I think it's fair to say that those who saw a doubling of the population (density, cars, etc.) and the violent crime rate would mistakenly characterize crime as being 'out of control' when in fact the per capita incidences remained fairly constant and in recent years have declined. Latinos were probably scapegoated as being the 'main cause'.

That said, I have no clue why either side thinks these facts are important. Whether you come her illegally to commit crime or work is not the issue; you either come here legally or get out.

We should have a national ID card and use it to track voting, employment benefits, medicare, medicaid fraud etc. and even to track the purchase of ammunition to see if stockpiles are being purchased.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Burn Adams
An Ex-Liberal that finally met the real world.
03:43 PM on 07/26/2012
Hmmm, not good Chaffetz. You've been picking up too many tips from Maddow.
photo
Snake1994
Snakebite!
01:57 PM on 07/26/2012
True or not, it still doesn't justify illegal immigrant behavior that occurs on the US/Mexico border everyday. Net Zero is just a ploy to make it sound like no one is coming over the border illegally anymore which is the farthest thing from the truth. Why don't you advocate securing the border first than we can talk about visa's low skilled workers.
Bufford P Tusser
Impeach this!
03:53 PM on 07/26/2012
the fact your heros blatantly lie to your face doesn't cause you pause?

perhaps some of the other "info" you draw your conclusions from are erroneous as well considering the source would be the same, RW liars.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ugly american
"I drank what?"- Last words of Socrates
11:24 AM on 07/28/2012
The real fact is that there is no real verification for the claims of either side. There is a correlation between illegal immigration and crime rates regardless of the claims of foreign nationals and their advocates people are still coming across the border at an unknown rate. According to the news, there is almost a rush from Central and South America now.
Nobody knows how many illegal aliens are here, or are coming and going or collect benefits of any kind. With a dearth of known facts, both sides tend to manufacture statistics in support of their cause.
Just because Ramos says someone is a liar, that doesn't mean he isn't one himself.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
johuyik
Pro-2cnd and anti-NRA.
01:44 PM on 07/26/2012
'While Rep. Chaffetz gets points for theatricality, his use of "facts" leave something to be desired.'

To which Chaffetz's office replied, "Well don't blame him if the facts don't support his argument!..blame the facts!"
photo
voyager48
Illegitimi Non Carborundum
10:38 AM on 07/26/2012
OK then - GAO's latest report says that the Tucson sector only has 67% of their border miles under effective control. We know from apprehension data that around 50% of all illegals enter the US through this sector. Also GAO reports that CBP's apprehension rate is around 28%, so extrapolating this gives us that more than 1 million illegals entered the US last year. Further GAO reports that less than 45% of all border miles are under effective control. Now tell me again that we don't have a problem on the AZ border?

Interestingly, the highest levels of control are in California and Yuma - both areas that are not coincidentally - heavily fenced.

As for trade with Mexico - remittances to Mexico are around $22bn and remittances to specific states like Michocan amount to almost 10% of their GDP. Michocan's main source of income is agriculture, so it would help them far more if we were to importing their products, not their people.
photo
HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Kristian Ramos
12:02 PM on 07/26/2012
I think the broader point that you are missing is that undocumented migration into the United States from Mexico on our southern border is a net zero. The number of people coming in are the same as the number leaving. So your extrapolation of a million new migrants is simply inaccurate. The Pew Research center wrote a report you can read here http://pewresearch.org/pubs/2250/mexican-immigration-immigrants-illegal-border-enforcement-deportations-migration-flows. I wont say we don't have a problem on the border, the issue is that we don't have measures for legal entry in to the country, we need a reform of how we process legal migration into and out of the country.

As for your last point... Yes we should import their products and if their is a system to process their workers into our country legally I am also for that. We need a system which allows people to come into the country to work then be able to leave without fear that they will never be able to come back into the country. That is not currently the case, and I don't believe that anyone would object to that.
photo
voyager48
Illegitimi Non Carborundum
12:44 PM on 07/26/2012
I missed nothing. My point is that we still have extremely porous border and an undeniably significant illegal immigration problem. The only reason that illegal immigration is down is because the economy has tanked.

We have legal immigration measures and admit 1 million plus legal immigrants per year which is more than any other country on the planet. The majority of these are from the Americas and most of those are from Mexico. There are also mechanisms for agricultural work permits so you cannot claim that there are no legal avenues!

All of our efforts to try to deal with this over the last 40 years have shown us that this is an internal enforcement issue first and foremost since until we can regulate immigration - all other arguments and discussions are moot, since our borders will always be porous and this whole big ponzi scheme will just keep on rolling unabated.
photo
spytheweb
Black Democrat
11:06 PM on 07/26/2012
They are still coming. The reason they won't allow states to count the illegal alien students is because people will see the real numbers, they are still coming.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
jss1220
En boca cerrada no entran moscas.
12:32 PM on 07/26/2012
All very good points. Increased trade would help Mexicans stay in Mexico. However, FTAs like NAFTA have resulted in unforseen consequences to Mexicans working in the agricultural sector. Once NAFTA went into effect, Mexican farmers were forced to directly compete with U.S. corn that was flooding the Mexican market. However, because the U.S. government heavily subsidizes corn (and agriculture in general), Mexican farmers are unable to compete with highly subsidized corn produced in the United States. The flood of Mexican rural migrants coming to the U.S. post-NAFTA in the 90s certainly is one unintended consequence of our economic policies.
01:32 PM on 07/27/2012
NAFTA is the major problem for Mexico and its farmers, yet the Mexican government refuses to make any changes. In 2007, Mexico even refused to support Canada when the government in Ottawa lodged a complaint against US corn subsidies at the World Trade Organization.