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Student Asks Kerry Tough Question, Kerry Watches Him Get Tasered; Free Speech Nowhere to be Seen
UPDATE BELOW
There are so many things wrong with this video that I don't even know where to start.
You can see another video, posted at Daily Kos here that shows the student's full question.
Sure, he ranted and raved just a bit. But, he barely got his 'impolite' question out before the University of Florida Rent-a-Cops started harassing him. If you ask me, more people should rant and rave like this. He's clearly upset that Bush's administration is clearly ripping the Constitution to threads, edging towards ANOTHER ill-conceived war, and that Kerry could have stopped it if he had forced the issue on the 2004 voter suppression reports.
If more people were this passionate, then we might have a chance at bringing this country back from a state of absolute apathy in the face of corrupt government. This guy made the people in the room feel uncomfortable because of his passion and tough questions.
Because of the uber-sensitive environment that George Bush's "free speech zone" society has created, everybody is on edge and thinks that free speech has gone away. I'm not sorry to say that most of America needs a reality check. Serious issues are before us and sober conversation with polite head nodding isn't gonna make anything better.
NEWSFLASH: The government might be spying on you and have suspended habeus corpus, but our right to free speech remains. And that means you can be a nutso, annoying, know-it-all jerk. That student didn't cross any line that put him into illegal territory. Period.
Have you seen the bumper sticker, "If you're not angry, you're not paying attention"? This guy was paying attention and it rubbed some people the wrong way.
Those Rent-a-Cops, unjustified in the initial moments of confrontation, further failed to properly handle the situation. There were FIVE cops there and there's no reason they couldn't remove him from that room and handle it outside of the company of an entire auditorium. Their actions fueled the situation and they should be held accountable for it.
This whole thing makes me sick because it represents a lot of what is wrong with America right now.
UPDATE
MSNBC is reporting that the taser that the student, Andrew Meyers was shocked with was a full 50,000 volts. I'm not sure what that means, but it sounds pretty brutal to me.
The President of the University of Florida has placed two of the Rent-a-Cops on paid leave while their actions are investigated.
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I'm all for maintaining some decorum when in public. But this was a questin & answer session regarding politics. Free speech allows for some passion to be expressed in topic that effect the nation, and evenb those that don't.The police must have given this adminstration the handbook for despensing of that pesky little right, along with human dignity. There way to much Steriods in the 'preotect and serve' division of our national institutions.Time we take these institutions out and knock the shit off them, things have been crawling out from beneath them- DICK.
John Kerry should have gotten down off the stage to tell these people to leave the kid alone. What, would they taser him?
I'm also shocked by all those people just sitting there and watching, I might have gotten up to say, could you just leave the kid alone, you are causing more of a disruption than he was.
I felt a bit ill watching the video as this guy asked the most relevant question, "What did I do?".
Tasering a student for asking a question or going over the time limit is insane. Anyone who thinks this tasering a student under these circumstances is ok needs psychiatric treatment. There is something called free speech,it means that one can ask a question, an uncomfortable question that this brave kid was doing. tasering such acts is unamerican. First, what kind of idiot police are these? Five big hunks cannot control a single guy? What kind of moronic police training do they get? This is what happens if you equip these imbeciles with tasers and the like. They will use it at the most innocent of situations where a simple overpowering of the guy would have sufficed.
For university police to act like stalinist thugs like this and take on a student for asking a question is shameful and those who support such acts are a disgrace to humanity!
Thank goodness for instant video-capturing beyond the reach of censors.
Use this precious right while you still can.
"My country is more valuable to me than these criminals."
"My country stands for truth and justice and if neither of these things are in you, then you are unfit to rule my country."
"My country stands for truth and justice and if you violate the law or fail to uphold the Constitution while you hold a position of public trust, you will be Impeached from that position (by Due Process of Law), and then you will be bound over to the Courts. Meanwhile, you will be forever barred from holding a position of public trust again, and if you are convicted (again, by Due Process of Law) you cannot be pardoned."
"My country stands for truth and justice and if there is probable cause to believe you violated the law, you cannot avoid an Impeachment trial because the Congress, BY LAW, CANNOT 'CHOOSE NOT TO' hold one, any more than a Grand Jury can 'choose not to' consider a case."
====
Article 2, Section 4: "It's not just a good idea; IT'S THE LAW."
I find it ironic that you posted your opinion on a moderated forum. On Huffpo, if a comment is deemed abusive, it is removed, same as that jackass was removed from his forum. This comment is an example of freedom of speech under Huffpo's terms (as the link to the rules reminds me). I agreed to those terms, and if this comment is deemed abusive and removed, so be it. Likewise, that jackass agreed to the terms attached to asking his question, but he violated them and he was removed, same as I would be removed from Huffpo for abusing my privileges here.
I wonder... if this comment received multiple flags as abusive, would it be removed? Perhaps the word "jackass" is too harsh for delicate eyes. If so, who ultimately decides if it should be removed? Is it determined by the voters or a moderator, either of whom would judge it subjectively? It would make an interesting experiment, don't you think? Like a challenge to the status quo.
You make an excellent point!
WASHINGTON D.C. " Sen. John Kerry issued the following statement today, in response to the arrest of a student at the University of Florida.
"In 37 years of public appearances, through wars, protests and highly emotional events, I have never had a dialogue end this way. I believe I could have handled the situation without interruption, but I do not know what warnings or other exchanges transpired between the young man and the police prior to his barging to the front of the line and their intervention. I asked the police to allow me to answer the question and was in the process of responding when he was taken into custody. I was not aware that a taser was used until after I left the building. I hope that neither the student nor any of the police were injured. I regret enormously that a good healthy discussion was interrupted."
If going on and on, annoying people in a public space, asking tough and/or obnoxious questions and meandering on long rants was cause for removal and police intervention, then two-thirds of the population of Huffington Post (and most of the internet) should now immediately expect to be kicked off their computers, dragged away by the cops, and then tasered.
And....How about the long meandering questions that Members of Congress posed to Petraeus and Crocker last week. Nobody tasered them!
No, but they attempted to call them "character assissins" because they dare question the credibility of Patraeus and his lovely charts.
OK, we can sit around and argue this forever.
Why not put it to the test ?? Go to a city council or county commossioners meeting, sign-up to speak, sign the little agreement that you will honor your time limit, etc. Then, when it's your turn to speak.. do so, loudly, with some venom. Then when they turn on the light or politely ask you to step down, go on a rant..
Now... what happens next ???
...so, go do it and report back here on HuffPo. Then you'll have something to say....
oh.. and don't forget to contact a bail bondsman before you go do it..
Bush-Cheney avoided the Law - Bush-Cheney lied about just everything to avoid the Law ...
There are rules to the game - and if we support a bush-cheney aproach to the rules - Then we have accepted there caricature of America - A Lawless country - Wild-Wild west mentality of who's the fastest at a LIE ...
When your in a Q&A - you respect those rules - when your in a field - scream all you want ...
Becoming a lawless country is not what we are fighting for ...
The Kid should have respected the rules - and the police should not taser a kid on the ground ...
They both broke the rules ...
Again as this war goes on there will be more protests and more questions - The rules of the game need to be laid down ...
A place to scream at - and a place for Q&A ...
Rules of LAW - The preservation and growth of The Constitution of these United State's ...
Polite socials rules are quite different from the utter disregard for the law that we've seen from the Bush Administration.
It's NEVER wrong to challenge the status quo when the status quo has become shear apathy. We need hundreds of thousands of people asking tough questions, making audiences uncomfortable, demanding tough answers from elected officials.
You are right Lane, it is NEVER wrong to challenge the status quo. But remember, even if I don't like the rules for speaking engagements like the one in question, it does not give me the right to violate those rules, especially if I have stated that I understand those rules.
We need to ask the tough questions. But they need to be done appropriately. If this young man wanted to rant, he could have petitioned the University to allow a protest outside the venue where he could have yelled, screamed, vented, and made his target uncomfortable with scathing and damning questions and statements. When we undertake to change the rules of the game to meet our own agenda, we make a mockery of the rule of law and diminish the beauty of the freedom of speech.
This young man did not have his freedom denied. If it is true that he intentionally violated the stated rules, then he should have been removed. If excessive force was used in his removal, then the officers responsible should be held accountable.
We want accountability from our government but we don't need to abuse the rules of engagement. Shouting matches turn most people off. Asking pointed questions in a respectful manner should be the goal.
I'm glad to read your viewpoint about him being able to ask a question, maybe an uncomfortable one. My follow up is 'when did our political leaders become so 'god-like' that they should be immune to those they represent?' God forbid we ask a poignant question to those we PAY to represent us? God forbid they are confronted to answer for their actions. This entire system is an outrage. What's worse is that this kid is going to be labeled 'a radical' because he had a question that will be viewed as 'out there' and he wasn't 'polite' about asking it. Good for him! We need more of this in our country!!!
From what I have heard of the event in question, those who wished to ask questions of Senator Kerry could do so and were given an allotted amount of time to ask their questions. This young man was the last questioner and, from the initial reporting, went considerably over his given time. With this perspective, if it is indeed true, then the University was likely within its bounds to confront and remove this young man. If the University's investigation confirms this then this young man abused his freedom of speech. Freedom of speech does not mean having no limits on how loud you speak (noise ordinances), or how long you speak (the University set up the terms of the questioning). In Congress, there are rules for how long legislators can speak. Also, a taser is a much more humane form of restraint than the clubs, bean bags from shotguns, and pepper sprays. Regardless, I will wait for the investigation by the University to run its course and wait for the report. Perhaps the other audience members were amused because they knew that this guy had violated the stated restrictions on the questioning session. Just my thought.
Asking a long question or going over time is not justification for denying Constitutional rights. Expecting anything less is sad.
Sorry, but your premise is absurd. We are a nation of laws and rules. It's a matter of being civilized. Asking a long question and going overtime is disruptive. Show me the part in the Bill of Rights that states people have a right to be disruptive.
What is NOT shown is that young man had ALREADY asked a couple of questions. When he was asked to relinquish the mic for others is when he started shouting about the 04 election and REFUSED to give up the mic. That is when security stepped in.
Had the young man quietly sat down instead of getting loud and fighting security, NONE of this would have escalated.
See, there is another side to this story. It's a shame that the media decided to only air one of them.
No one is disputing that the student was being willfully provocative, uncooperative, etc, etc.
The issue is the response by the cops, and the lack thereof by the other students and especially by Kerry.
The message: stick out like a nail, get beat down by the hammer. And that's appartently fine with today's students -- and yesterday's wannabe's.
>>>>>> What is NOT shown is that young man had ALREADY asked a couple of questions. When he was asked to relinquish the mic for others is when he started shouting about the 04 election and REFUSED to give up the mic. That is when security stepped in.
Had the young man quietly sat down instead of getting loud and fighting security, NONE of this would have escalated.
No one here wants to hear that.
Check out the link in the post above that will take you to another video that is posted at Daily Kos. He did ask more than one question, but it wasn't an abnormally long rant in the whole scheme of long questions from audience members....
I knew some people would try to blame Kerry for this, but I honestly thought it would come from republicans. But, of course, the bothsiders and democritics lurch out from behind their rocks to make sure everybody blames this on Kerry. Hey, let's blame Al Gore too.
realityrules, Kerry stood by and did nothing. He didn't even say anything. Nobody is blaming him as if he caused this to happen, but to see no reaction from the Senator to this kind of injustice in America was appalling.
Young, OK, I guess I don't disagree. I too would have liked to have seen Kerry be brave and intervene. I also would like to have seen Nader be brave and intervene instead of standing by and doing nothing as he watched Bush get elected twice. Off topic, I know, but I like to poke the democritics and bothsiders with that stick whenever I can.
Your name is "reality rules". That means, I assume, you want to see with your own eyes-reality-without being told what you should think.
Yet Kerry did not do that. He was there. He saw the "reality" right there in front of him. If anyone had some morals, they would have stood up-and defended the guy. They saw what was going on-yet decide in the typical "groupthink" cultural way of cellege kids that it would not be "kewl" or it's just "nerdy" to be passionate about what you believe in(in this case, his civil rights).
If college kids or anyone else would focus on WORDS over appearance-it would go a long way in helping our country get back on its' feet collectively. I also think kids have been programmed these days by parents-NOT to rock the boat. accept the status quo. Respect your elders. respect does not mean the same thing as letting YOUR rights get trampled on. or NOT letting your own feelings be heard. i think young folks are THE most frustrated-beacuse they are way ahead of us intellectually becasue of the technological progress during thier years-they just don't know how to reconcile it with todays' world and our current problems. they think we should be further along-and I agree with them. Energy-wise, politically-wise, socially, scientifically,foreign-policy...They, becasue of the war-have been the ones most robbed becasue of the silence put on their curiosity by GW-not to mention the war debt.
I'm not blaming Kerry for the incident. However, Kerry stood and watched this happen without standing up for this kid's right to ask him tough questions. Sure, he said, "Hey, I'll answer the question." And then he watched the student be manhandled and tasered.
I blame Kerry for being an inept leader in this incident.
Hi Lane. I'm glad you called attention to this incident because I found it so disturbing. When I first watched it, I wondered why, on earth, didn't John (Kerry) step down and stop them? Then I watched it again and wondered if he was just in shock and awe, and if there was some reason why he could not leave his place on stage (as per security protocol) as I was watching it. I know enough about Senator Kerry to know that he understands angry young men as he was once one of them, and he listens to them. So he deserves credit for standing and telling the tasing Nazis to stop and allow the question to be asked. I truly believe that Kerry was sincere about that. I totally agree with your assessment of them as "rent-a-cops," because clearly, this kid did nothing at all to justify that kind of punishment. I agree with an earlier blogger who found it very disturbing that many of the attendees sat there and actually appeared to ENJOY the pain inflicted on their fellow student. I find THAT to be the most disturbing thing of all. That is the basis for gang violence and bullying. It is my understanding that bullying includes: 1. Those that are inflicting the actual pain, 2.Those that are encouraging it, and 3.Those that stand by and do nothing to stop it. So, if that is true, than does that mean that Senator Kerry did in fact participate in that act of unnecessary brutality/bullying? Or, was Senator Kerry torn between a certain protocol he is supposed to follow for his own protection, and doing the Right Thing? I am certain, that at the very least, it was extremely awkward for him. John Kerry is a very passionate man who has a fine way of not showing it. I hope that this is not the last we see of Andrew Mayer. I hope that Senator Kerry will, if he hasn't already, contact him personally, and discuss what happened and answer his questions after all.
Democrats aren't afraid to question when they see something wrong happen right before them. Kerry should have done more.
You see this isn't the Republican party where dissent isn't even given a chance to get to the microphone.
It is not the role of the police to administer punishment. That is the role of the courts.
He was tasered after already having been physically restrained.
As I listened to the video, just before he was tasered wasn't he asked mutliple times to put his hands behind his back or he will be tasered? It sounded to me like, while not moving his arms/legs, he was still not responding to a direct order and was told the consequences in advance.
The droning bloviating of Kerry in the background is mind-numbing.
He couldn't motivate an ant to attend a picnic.
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Posted September 18, 2007 | 09:18 AM (EST)