Alan Dershowitz: Was He Against Nazi Practices Before He Was for Them?

Welcome to the desert of the real in which a Jewish man can cite Nazis in defense of torture tactics. I was raised on the Holocaust. I went to a highly religious school where many of my teachers and guest lecturers were Holocaust survivors.

My family talked about the Holocaust at every opportunity, remembering those who were imprisoned, tortured, and murdered, including members of my family. I lived under the Soviet regime, which also tortured and murdered.  I have never met or spoken with any Jew who has ever defended torture, no matter who the "scapegoat" is.

Apparently, there are some Jews who are more than willing to become the very monsters they abhor. This mentality I do not understand and never will.

Take for example the latest Alan Dershowitz column in the Wall Street Journal. Aside from getting the new meme on Mukasey about how the Democrats are beholden to MoveOn.org - echoed by meister Rove, President Bush, Dick Cheney, and the right wing propaganda machine as if one ring ruled them all - Dershowitz actually writes this:

"There are some who claim that torture is a nonissue because it never works--it only produces false information. This is simply not true, as evidenced by the many decent members of the French Resistance who, under Nazi torture, disclosed the locations of their closest friends and relatives."

This statement defies logic. Even if in some instances Nazi tactics worked, why would anyone endorse them for any reason, especially a Jewish man? Dershowitz, and others like him - Joe Lieberman, et al - do not speak for Jews, nor do they speak for Israel. In fact, the far right regime that has co-opted Israel and the US both is not representative of Judaism or Christianity for that matter. Whatever or whomever it is they represent, it is not the Israeli people or the American people. It is as though a multi-national organized crime syndicate has taken over both countries and is using the cover of religion as a shield against criticism.

No Jew, at least no Jew in touch with Jewish values, would ever support torture. When torture becomes policy for politically influential American and Israeli Jews, then the whole of our history becomes polluted with monsters whose crimes we lose the right to condemn.  It is the responsibility of other prominent Jews in both countries to take our religion back from these political parasites, because if we don't, their handy work will create the kind of antisemitism not seen since WWII. Ever since this morally repugnant right wing extremism has in a "paper coup" taken over both Israel and the United States, antisemitism has skyrocketed. 

"To look at the global situation, racism and xenophobia had become more acute, particularly antisemitism. Worldwide, there had been 590 cases of deliberate violence and vandalism against Jews, an increase of 31 per cent from the previous year, with the most incidents in Europe and the Middle East."

If Israeli citizens will not demand a more moderate government, then Jews around the world will have to ask the hard question: what is more important, the country of Israel or the Jewish people as a a whole?

And if American Jews do not demand that right wing political prostitutes, Jews in name only, stop the US march toward world domination, then American Jews might have to ask themselves a hard question as well: Is the United States more important than our traditions, morals, values, and history as a Jewish people?

In both cases, Jews of the world have to stand up against torture that other, more visible Jews in the US and Israel publicly endorse. We have to do this because we are a good people, a victimized people who know what torture is, and because we know that someday in the future we might, once again, be on the other side of this debate.

Comments

[LeoMarvin]

I happen to more or less agree with your platitudes and high-minded principles, but they are beside the point if the point is whether and when Dershowitz has advocated Nazi practices. On that question and the WSJ article you offer only ad hominems and straw men. Not once do you even disagree with, much less make a cogent argument against anything Dershowitz actually said in the article.

[bithead]

The powers that be have masterfully taken control under the guise of religion. We need a new term for this new "democratic fascism" as I see it.

Corporatocracy?

Who are the beneficiaries? Follow the money.

[veracity]

Thank you, Larissa.
I called Representative (Congresswoman) Debbie Wasserman-Schulz's office to register my disapproval with her NO impeachment in House Judiciary Committee position. I had a very good discussion with a staffer (or volunteer), until I mentioned the word "Jewish" when she politely hung-up on me, saying "We are too busy to take Jewish conspiracy phone-calls."
But Debbie Wasserman-Schulz is following a predictable pattern: she is following in the footsteps of Dianne Feinstein, who is following in the footsteps of Senator Joe Lieberman. AT EVERY CRITICAL MOMENT, another Democratic senator or congressman steps up to ENABLE the Bush-Cheney agenda, whether wars, domestic surveillance, extortionate credit, contract fraud and corruption, etc. I for one am tired of my government being subservient to the Likud hard-liners who run AIPAC, which (closely allied with the defense/war lobby, the oil/energy lobby, and the media conglomerates lobbies) now run the US government.

[SACVET]

As for torture what would Dwight D. Eisenhower say about it? You do know the answer. He would be furious to learn of its implementation anywhere under his authority. Why did German troops surrender with less fearful apprehension to U.S. forces in WW II? I was always told by older acquaintances and relatives, who served in that war, it was because they knew they would be treated well and not abused in any way. Implicit in our judgment of Nazis as war criminals was the idea that we were superior to them because we didn't and would never behave as such. Now we beg the question regarding what we are fast becoming under the Bush regime. I suspect older honest Germans would be able to tell us of how motion accelerates on the slippery slope descending from the moral high ground.

[CriminallySane]

Interestingly, tonight's NBC network newscast featured a piece about the FBI agent who spent at least five hours every day debriefing Saddam Hussein after his capture.

Hussein revealed that he never used doubles, that he had only hyped the supposed existence of chemical, biological, and nuclear weaponry in order to deter Iran from attacking, and that he himself put out rumors of plots against himself in order to attract potential plotters, who were then naturally arrested (and most likely executed).

Nowhere in this piece was there any indication that Hussein was tortured in any way - in fact, the FBI agent revealed that he'd sent for cookies, provided Hussein the suit he wore at his trial, and that at their parting, Hussein had tears in his eyes.

The man was completely turned, and all by a smart FBI agent maneuvering his way into Hussein's trust.

Contrast this with Dershowitz and the other repugnant torture apologists, who constantly reference the "ticking bomb" as though anyone who knew a bomb was set to go off in two hours could not hold out for two hours and ten minutes. Or Khalid Sheikh Muhammad, who confessed to things he could not possibly have done, because he was tortured.

And remember the WWII investigators who recently told their stories, about how they'd get more out of a teapot and a chessboard when dealing with their Nazi prisoners than out of a physically demanding "interrogation".

[peterg76]

Yes, others have tortured, others have created totalitarian governments, others (including Israel) have pursued 'lebensraum', committed ethnic cleansing, and created ghettos.

But no-one, NO-ONE - not even Stalin, who tried really hard - can remotely compare with the murderous barbarism of the Nazis.

And the Nazis *verified* the 'confessions' to make sure they were the truth. They were smart enough not to use torture by itself. Most torturers, George Bush for example, were never looking for the truth.

[S1m0n]

The sad fact about Israel is that, contrary to the author's assertion, the jackboot strain has been a part of the nation of Israel from the beginning. Dershowitz's fascism doesn't represent a betrayal of the nation of Israel; Israel represents a betrayal of the drive for freedom which has been a part of jewish culture for centuries.

At one point in this piece, the author claims that "no real jew would ever support torture." This is touching, but not even vaguely correct: Israeli soldiers and secret police have been torturing arabs--with the approval of the supreme court--for decades. It's not even secret. How could she have missed this? How could left-leaning american jews have ignored it? Why is it only now that Dershowitz attempts to apply the reasoning he honed in support of Israel to support the Bush administration that its fallacies and essential repugnance becomes clear?

[Malkintent]

Thank you for finally holding Dershowitz to account for his horrible rhetoric. People need to stand up to Alan's usual cries of "anti-semetism" toward any who dares disagree with him. Torture is only something the bad guys do. I hope with his latest, fascist rant, Huffpost will finally sever ties with this creep.

[Pagon]

The anti-Jewish, anti-Israel bigots flocked to this article with their bald hatred like flies to honey. No surprise there.
Isn't it funny how they don't mention the Palestinian atrocities - intentionally! - intentionallly! - blowing up innocent civilians. Then they take credit for it - even boasting.
It's a shame that the Palestinian people - who just want to live in peace - can't rid themselves of the terrorists among them.

[loslobo]

Larisa from what I got out of his article, he was talking of the "24" mentality of the ticking bomb causing imminent mass distruction.

"The president would have to "take personal responsibility" for authorizing torture in such an extreme situation. Sen. John McCain has also said that as president he would take responsibility for authorizing torture in that "one in a million" situation.
Although I am personally opposed to the use of torture, I have no doubt that any president--indeed any leader of a democratic nation--would in fact authorize some forms of torture against a captured terrorist if he believed that this was the only way of securing information necessary to prevent an imminent mass casualty attack. The only dispute is whether he would do so openly with accountability or secretly with deniability. The former seems more consistent with democratic theory, the latter with typical political hypocrisy."

You know when it comes down to voting for a President, most Americans will not vote for anyone who says that they will never ever torture under any circumstances, no matter where your moral compass lies.

That is what this country has become, a self inflicked wound is used against people who know torture should never be used anytime, anyplace, anywhere.

Thanks for tring to fight to get America's soul back.

[Pagon]

I must disagree on one point, Larisa.

Neither anti-semitism, nor any other flavor of bigotry has a legitimate reason to exist.

Bigots have always pointed to the actions of a few as an excuse to hate entire groups. It gives them a justification they can mention in public; but it is bogus in every case. In fact, when heard, it is a sure sign of the speaker's bigotry.

I beg you - do not fall into the dangerous trap of blaming the victim for causing the bigotry he suffers from.

[Boobaloo]

Ms.Alexandrovna,

You have said some extraordinarily brave and truthful things in your artrcle and I commend you and stand with you and Jews like you.

I would like to point out a couple of things:

1. Israel was the first and only nation on earth to have organized, government legalized torture matter of fact Dershowitz uses the Israeli model of legalized, systemic, organized torture to make a case for the United States to follow suit in his infamous article a few years back.

2. I want to briefly touch on anti-semitism, European leaders attribute it to two groups: disaffected whites and the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. Compare that with THOUSANDS of hate crimes against Muslims since 9/11 in the US, I would disagree that anti-semitism is 'sky rocketing' however I share your concern that the tide is turning and a lot of anger is going to increasingly be directed at Jews.

You asked the question I have posed and I believe to be the single most important question of our time: " what is more important, the country of Israel or the Jewish people as a a whole?"

I believe if the Jewish people chose their community as a whole then the world will be saved from Rapturous disaster but, if the choice is Israel, we are all going to be destroyed.

Thank you for writing such an amazing article, it launches the conversations we should be having.

[EspressoAtNoon]

"It is as though a multi-national organized crime syndicate has taken over both countries and is using the cover of religion as a shield against criticism."

>> That would be Zio-Fascists. Extreme Zionist zealots who will do whatever it takes to ensure Israeli supremacy and domination in the middle east. They'll condone torture, taking advantage of American taxpayers, commit ethnic cleansing in Palestine, land confiscation, illegal settlements, and calling anyone who points this out as being "anti-semitic".

[pfc1369]

"The "dessert" of the real? Not "desert"?

[Waitaminute]

So basically, it boils down to. A delusionally superior, greedy and cowardly (hardly any of them served) rightwing neo-con, no matter what their religion, race or economic standing.

Look closely, all races and religions are represented. May i include GENDAS. closeted gays who pass laws negatively affecting others, of the same genda.