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The Harsh Reality for New York Carriage Horses

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A recent bill passed by the City Council (Intro 35) granting 5 weeks vacation to NYC carriage horses received a great deal of attention in the press, with news anchors chuckling over such an extravagant benefit. It's easy to see why your average overworked New Yorker would feel a touch of envy, but the harsh reality of life for a carriage horse working in New York City is no laughing matter.

They routinely work at least 9 hours a day, pulling a vehicle that weighs hundreds of pounds, on hard pavement, while breathing exhaust from cars, buses and taxis. Unaccustomed to the urban environment, horses can be "spooked" easily, by anything from another horse to a plastic shopping bag to a pedestrian, and cause accidents that inflict great damage on vehicles, drivers and most often, the horses themselves.

At the end of the day the horses return to their tiny stalls in stables housed in former tenement buildings on the far West side of the city, or as Jon Stewart once called it, "The sad-eyed horse carriage district." The cramped space doesn't allow these enormous animals to lie down or to move about freely and get the daily exercise that equine veterinarians agree they need.

Once a horse hits the streets of Manhattan, its life expectancy is cut in half. After a few years of work, injuries and illness usually force the horses into retirement, not to a farm or pasture but to auctions in Pennsylvania where they can be sold to kill-buyers, transported to Mexico and Canada and slaughtered for meat.

As for the 5 week vacation promised in the bill (Intro 35) recently signed into law by Mayor Bloomberg? It sure sounds nice, but don't expect to be running into a horse at the Jersey Shore anytime soon. The minimal regulations already in place are frequently ignored by carriage horse owners and drivers, with no repercussions. The NYC Department of Health and the Department of Consumer Affairs simply don't have the resources or the expertise to fulfill their oversight responsibilities for the 211 carriage horses.

According to a 2007 audit by former NYC Comptroller Bill Thompson, the Department of Health's veterinary consultants spent an average of only 25 minutes inspecting each stable - and that 25 minutes included traveling from one stable to the next, inspecting the condition of the facilities, reviewing paperwork maintained by the horse owners, and completing their own paperwork, not to mention checking out the physical conditions of the horses.

It is no surprise then, that when comparing the 2005 health certificates of the horses with the 2006 certificates, investigators from the Comptroller's office found that 42% of them had conflicting descriptions of the same horses, including age, color, breed, name and gender. With such shoddy record-keeping, who will ever know if the horses get their much talked-about vacation?

The workers in the horse carriage industry don't fare much better. They are independent contractors and their daily income is based on how many rides they sell. They certainly do not get any paid vacation or sick days, let alone any other benefits, like unemployment, health insurance or workman's compensation despite the frequent injuries incurred on the job.

The New York City Council should pass legislation that supports the welfare of humans and animals. A bill currently before the City Council, Intro 86, would phase out the horse-drawn carriages and replace them with green horseless carriages. This new industry would create well-paying jobs with full benefits, and would allow for the retirement of the over-worked horses to farms and sanctuaries.

For more information on how the 21st Century alternative to the horse carriage industry solves not just the humane issue, but the traffic, safety, economic, and quality of life problems caused by the horse carriages, please visit www.NY-CLASS.org.

 
 
 
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10:12 AM on 05/19/2010
I see that Dr. Hynes has no response.

Thought so.
11:02 AM on 05/17/2010
Most educated people who have researched the NYC carriage horse industry agree that it is corrupt, inhumane, and dangerous to the public and the horses. The Mayor and Speaker Quinn have their own agendas, and obviously the Teamster's Union, (which the carriage drivers now belong to), has some influence with the City Council. Mr. Flynn alleges that I belong to a "fringe animal rights group"- PCRM. I do belong to that organization- it is the Physician's Committee for Responsible Medicine. Mr. Flynn and members of the industry felt threatened enough by Mr. Moss' documentary "Blinders" that a letter was sent to all of the Council Members, asking them not to view it. The letter was sent by former Council Member McMahon's brother, a lobbyist for the carriage horse industry. Mr. Flynn resorts to vulgar slurs from behind his keyboard, saying that "because I have a circle j@#k going on with Donny Moss..." Well, Mr. Flynn, your lack of class is evident in your rambling posts. And for the record, I was not involved in this carriage horse issue to "win" or "lose". I did not lose Mr. Flynn. The horses lost. The people of New York City lost. And when we have a less corrupt City Council, perhaps we will see a more humane New York City, where carriage horses are a distant memory.

John G. Hynes, DVM, PC
Member, Physician's Committee for Responsible Medicine
Member, Humane Society Veterinary Medical Association
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01:18 AM on 05/18/2010
Let's do this the easy way, shall we?

1) You failed to address my mention of Dr. Lowe - surely you are familiar with him? Dr. John E. Lowe of Cornell University, College of Veterinary Medicine, is a giant in the equine field. Among his numerous achievements and positions held:
- 6 years on the Board of Directors for the American Association of Equine Practitioners
- 9 years on the Board of Directors for the American Show Horse Association
- 20 years on the Equine Practitioners Committee, 5 of those years as Chairman
- Developed and taught Equine Lameness Elective Course for 12 years at Cornell
- Horseperson of the Year by the NYS Horse Council
- One of the co-developers of Ketamine/Xylazine
....and many more accomplishments, too numerous to list here.

Oh, and did I mention that Dr Lowe testified on behalf of the industry at City Hall, after examining EACH of our 200+ horses, including Gait/Attitude/Impulsion and CRI, and the Hennecke Body Condition Scoring System? Can you say the same, Dr. Hynes?

I thought not.

I wonder who all those "educated people" you speak of would listen to - the esteemed Dr. Lowe, or a small animal vet with an agenda from Staten Island? LOL
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01:23 AM on 05/18/2010
As far as Blinders goes - at the beginning of this "documentary", D. Moss asserts that London, Paris, & Beijing are among the cities which have outlawed horse-drawn carriages.

A simple Google search will show that there are indeed horse-drawn carriages operating on the streets of EACH of these cities - as a matter of fact, the AP reported in May that Paris has added more at the Eiffel Tower since it has become so popular.

If Donny Moss will lie about this - a simple, easy-to-check fact - what else would he lie about?

Did anyone know that Donny started out by making a PRO-carriage film?

Things were looking bleak for Donny in stand-up, he started looking into film....rebuffed by carriage drivers and owners who had no interest in doing a puff piece doc by an amateur, in a snit he decided to do an ANTI-carriage piece (you shouldn't talk so loudly in bars, Donny!)

Donny soon found out that he could haunt the cocktail circuit and hobknob with C-list celebs, be feted at fundraisers at vegan restaurants (even though DM is not only not a vegan, but works for a pharmaceutical company that tests on animals) by the LoHV & others, and decided he could ride this niche gravy train until....he made another film to keep the whole thing going!

No flies on Donny!
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felixthecat
04:08 PM on 05/18/2010
fanned.
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05:03 PM on 05/18/2010
Were you able to help that mini palomino, Felix?
12:17 AM on 05/17/2010
The carriage horse trade is unbelieveably cruel. Humane New Yorkers have been trying to shut down this business for decades, but somehow this tiny industry always has some kind of "pull" with City Hall -- it is a longstanding and mysterious connection.

These animals are horribly abused. You need only to compare the way they look to the way a policeman's horse looks -- a cop's horse is doted on and cared for beautifully. Put a carriage horse next to a police horse and you will see how horribly these animals suffer from stress and poor care.

I hate this business that maltreats innocents animals this way!!! I urge all tourists to avoid the horse drawn carraiges. No New Yorker ever rides in a carriage! It's not a New York thing to do!

It's a blindly inhumane thing to do. Please do not support the avarious brutal and greedy practioners of this trade.
12:11 PM on 05/18/2010
inplainsight- Comparing Mounted Unit Horses to Carriage Horses is like comparing Apples to Oranges. Firt Mounted Unit Horses Are THROUGHBREED's mostly off the track because they are to slow. So most are Price wise anywhere from 10 thousand and up. They by breed are a sleeker looking animal much more pleaseing to the eye of a uneducated person. Carriage Horses are of DRAFT breeds and some times draft cross. Resulting in a larger more sturdy looking animal. Hence not as pleasing to some. So do not judge and say a horse is being Abused because of it's Comformation . As for Police horses THEY go through more stress then a carriage horse!They always have been know in the Horseworld as 30 day wonders. They get 30 days of training then are thrown out there with someone who IF the horse is luckey can actually ride. I DO NOT MEAN SIT ON IT AND NOT FALL. I mean actually ride! They also do not get VACATIONS the rider does! But his/her horse is lent to another rider during this time. And yes most stand in STANDING stalls. I was called to the barn on 108th st once because the HEAD GROOM thought a horse was having a heart attack and was going to put it down! It had a MILD Case of colic And was FINNALY RETIRED at the age of 26. Year this happened was 83. But things havent changed much.
07:08 PM on 05/15/2010
I live in NYC and often see the tourists riding in the horse carriages. The tourists look happy and the horses look exhausted (because the faster they go-the more rides and money the driver can make). But what is really disturbing is when you see a horse carriage being driven down to their overnight stables. To see the horses pulling their carriages around central park is not so bad-there isn't too much traffic for the horses to avoid in Central Park. But to see the horses having to march down a traffic congested street (like 5th Avenue) is completely disturbing. The horses look absolutely terrified as they encounter huge city buses that aggressively pull in front of them and taxi cabs honk that at them and tail gate them. (You have to see it to believe it.) The horses look absolutely terrified! The carriage horse industry needs to be abolished in NYC. Or it it's so important to Central Park...build some stables right there in the park. Don't make those poor horses pull a carriage in NYC traffic. (it's just cruel) Watch the movie "Blinders" for more information. New York City is the last, large city (in the world) to still allow a carriage horse trade.
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08:51 PM on 05/15/2010
Hey lyd -

1)Go to YT and look at any of the hundreds of videos of our horses doing rides in Central Park - you'll notice that 95% of the time they are WALKING.

2) There's the same car traffic inside Central Park as there is on 59th Street.

3) Going back to the stables, the carriages ordinarily use 7th, 9th, and 11th Aves, not 5th Ave (are you sure you live in NYC? LOL)

4) A seasoned carriage horse pays no more attention to a bus or a taxi than they do to a fly - as a matter of fact, they pay more attention to flies.

5) What does an "exhausted, terrified" horse look like? ROFL

6) Central Park is a NYC landmark, there will never be carriage stables built there. And we don;t need them.

7) The movie "Blinders" is a laughable piece of useless propaganda, easily deconstructed piece by piece by us to show it up for the donkeydust it is.

8) Nearly EVERY major city in the WORLD has horse-drawn carriages, and most of the smaller ones, also. Don't take my word for it - Google "horse carriages" and any major city's name and you will see for yourself - or go to Flickr and see pics.

You really should do your own research, before spewing the talking points. Drinking the KoolAid can be very dangerous.
10:33 AM on 05/15/2010
Finally an article that tells the ugly truth about the corrupt, and impossible to regulate carriage horse industry in New York. I recognize many of the individuals who post (micheleenflynn) as family members of the carriage horse owners or drivers. Although I am not an equine veterinarian, I have visited the stables where these horses are kept. The conditions are unsafe, inadequate, and fire hazards. I visited these stables with an equine veterinarian who treats these horses. I suggest anyone who has an interest in this topic, should go to www.blindersthemovie.com and see the award winning documentary by Donny Moss which exposes the truth behind this abusive industry.
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08:56 PM on 05/15/2010
What Dr, Hynes fails to mention is that he is a member of the PCRM, a radical fringe animal rights vet group, that has little to no recognition by the AVA..

He says I am a "family member" - wrong, Dr, Hynes, I am a carriage ower, have been in the business for 30 years.

Also, I'd like to ask, how did you gain entry to our stables, and what vet did you come with? Because Dr. Farrell is the ONLY vet who treats our horses, and you have never been there with him. BTW, he *IS* an equine vet, and testified on our behalf at City Hall, as did the distinguished Dr. Lowe - surely you know Dr. Lowe? He is a giant in the equine veterinary world, and supports us 100%.

Because you have a little circle-je. Rk going on with D. Moss, does not make you credible on this issue. And in case you haven't noticed, you lost. LOL
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09:31 PM on 05/15/2010
Sorry, got my acronyms confused - it's not the PCRM, it's the HSVMA.
03:47 PM on 05/14/2010
This article is crap- there is little to no truth in it whatsoever....where does Laura get her information? Apparently not from any type of reliable source. That's the problem with journalism these days, propoganda at it's best.
01:01 PM on 05/15/2010
You can't say that without saying what you think is a lie! What part was a lie?

Also, I don't think that a blog is journalism, it is a forum to talk about ideas. If you want straight journalism, go to a newspaper site. This is an opinion site.
01:46 PM on 05/18/2010
I found 6 lies in paragraph #1 alone & they won't allow more text:
Lie #1: "They routinely work at least 9 hours a day" - The max they work is 9 hours, read the legislation.

#2- "Unaccustomed to the urban environment"- It's insane to think anyone would drive a horse that is "Unaccustomed to the urban enviornment" on a city street! When horses are afraid they run! Hence they're known as- "Flight animals."

#3- "horses can be "spooked" easily, by anything"- How many accidents are from "spooked horses"- they are caused by drivers who don't look where they are going.

4- "At the end of the day the horses return to tiny stalls in stables housed in former tenement buildings. The cramped space doesn't allow these enormous animals to lie down or to move about freely and get the daily exercise that equine veterinarians agree they need"-1st you complain about horses getting too much exercise & then say they need more & in stalls? The legislation requires room for turning around & lieing down. Horses need to spend most of their lives standing, it helps the heart pump blood to the "ENORMOUS" body.

#6- "After a few years of work, injuries and illness usually force the horses into retirement, not to a farm or pasture but to auctions where they can be sold to kill-buyers.-
Most of these horses are SAVED from slaughter. 3 of mine were rescued,1 is a 28 y.o. retired carriage horse alive & well in
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Dr. Belisa Vranich
10:24 AM on 05/14/2010
The carriage horse issue is a quality of life issue--for both New Yorkers and the horses. And FINALLY we have a solution: green antique cars! Wonderful! No jobs lost! Lets go for it! This is a great idea. I'll be the first to get in line both to sponsor a horse's retirement and get a ride in the cars by someone who formally held reigns.
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10:40 AM on 05/14/2010
Sorry, Dr., but the quality of life for NYC carriage horses is way above average. I won't bother repeating myself, you can find the specifics of how they live in other posts of mine below.

However, there ARE horses that are in desperate need of a sponsor thousands of them, none of which have the great homes and care that our horses-do. Here's one of them, who is in the killpen in NJ as we speak, with the deadline being 4pm TODAY.

Can you help?

5-11-04 - Tri color mare approx 14.3 hands 14 yr old it's not known if she is broke to ride gorgeous color gentle to handle. Video done in hand
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJIJT6mzXeg
$450.00 A
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10:54 AM on 05/14/2010
BTW, the broker who has this horse and many others is a private broker with a contract with a Canadian slaughterhouse. This broker ships to slaughter several times a week. Time is of the essence. There are many available, here's a little miniature palomino guy who is also on his way to slaughter TODAY unless someone rescues him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6HxyvaDOeM
10:12 AM on 05/14/2010
Horses in NYC don't need to be pulling carts around the park. It is old fashioned in lame way, and while some tourists do it, few NYers do. And frankly, I bet the tourists would get over the blow pretty quickly.

It is also a real bother for NYC residents. Ever get stuck behind one on the road? Ever step in a pile of horse excrement? Ever smell them when you go to the park? Ever get hustled by a driver? No, thanks.

The park is for everyone, but the carriages don't add charm, they add bother.

And beyond all of the bother, look at a horse when you walk past them. That is not what happiness looks like. Dirty, old, tired and, yes, sad eyed.

Let's move past this industry. I know that some small businesses will have to change and move on, but that isn't a tragedy--that is progress.
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09:56 AM on 05/14/2010
To all the hand-wringing do-gooders out there - here's a horse (one of many) who WISHES it were a NYC carriage horse.

She's a kill-pen horse, and the deadline is 4pm today.

Can any of you buy her and keep her and pay for her the rest of her natural life?

Thought so.

5-11-04 - Tri color mare approx 14.3 hands 14 yr old it's not known if she is broke to ride gorgeous color gentle to handle. Video done in hand
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJIJT6mzXeg
$450.00 A
01:20 PM on 05/18/2010
I'll BET NOT ONE OF THE DO_GOODERS STEP UP!!!!!! They really do not care about the horse read the post by amlabor- They don't like the poop! But they probably spend a fortune buying ORGANIC Grown Veggies ( horse poop grown).
07:19 AM on 05/14/2010
To me, all of this argument about how the carriage horses are treated is pointless. The fact is that horses do not belong in cities. The carriages should be banned. If
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09:08 AM on 05/14/2010
Of course their treatment is pointless to someone who would proclaim they do not belong in cities.

How's about dogs, they're pack animals - should they be outlawed as well? Most city dogs spend the lion's share of the day alone in an apartment - then go out for a nice walk on the concrete, and back to the apt. And cats - locked up for their entire lives, never getting to roll in green grass or chase a squirrel.

I'm just making a point of course, I have nothing against keeping pets in the city - as I have nothing against keeping horses in the city.

Our horses lead solid, blue-collar lives, with lots of amenities. They (and we) have every right to be here.

Just because YOU say they don't, doesn't make it so.

Share the road - horses paved the way.
12:32 PM on 05/14/2010
Seriously? You think if horses had the choice they would move to NYC to drag fat tourists around the city, nose to tailpipe all day?
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rrrina
Founding Member of the Alliance to End Chickens as
06:53 AM on 05/14/2010
I am sickened by the passage of Intro 35A. Are the City Council members unconscious? The carriage horse industry in NYC is an abomination. Even if there was a way (which there isn't) to monitor the industry's compliance with the "new regulations" it wouldn't change the ultimate outcome for the horses. Many of these horses are serving a second or third lifetime of service to man, who forces him to negotiate unyielding city traffic, for nine hours per day, in all sorts of temperature extremes, generally with the ultimate "reward" of "retirement" to the slaughterhouse. This relic needs to be abolished, replaced with electric antique cars (as is proposed by NY Class) and the horses sent to sanctuaries to live out their lives in peace.
And, animal cruelty aside, this industry is responsible for dozens of horrific accidents in the past several years.
Shame on the forty three members of the Council who have just given the industry carte blanche.

Rina Deych, RN
07:53 AM on 05/14/2010
Seriously - have you ever, really, truly tried to FORCE a horse do do something against its will? Don't mistake a well trained, well accustomed horse to one that is being compliant about his job. As far as a "retirement" at the slaughter house - you need a real education here. As someone in the industry who is at the auction house two or three times a month, let me tell you what goes to slaughter: well fed, fat, younger stock whose well-meaning owners bought him, put him out to pasture, then couldn't do anything with him for lack of training and the funds to keep a horse. Do your homework and maybe we will have something to talk about.
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12:36 PM on 05/14/2010
Terrific, informative post, Della, thanx!
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felixthecat
08:32 AM on 05/14/2010
James Gennaro, a QUEENS city council member, received $$$ from them. Just check the city Financing Board and you see a rooster of carriage drivers on his list of contributers. It is disgusting. a daily news reporter asked me why is a QUEENS council member involved in an issue that isn't even in his borough much less his own district. I responded because the industry found one that they COULD BUY. Gennaro lost to Padavan because of this issue and he will continue to lose because of it. And christine Quinn's days are numbered. GUARANTEED
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09:11 AM on 05/14/2010
Hey Felix - of COURSE we contributed to Gennaro's campaign LOL - are you acquainted with the way gov't operates? Just like our opponents contributed and had fundraisers for Avella - who was also from Queens! LOL

And the reason Gennaro is involved is A) he is a lifelong horseman and knows lies when he sees them and 2) lots of carriage families live in his district.

What else ya got? lol
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01:26 AM on 05/14/2010
...and here is a video of our BOX STALLS. AUTOMATIC WATERERS, FANS, & MISTERS...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXPiZYl3a_o
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01:37 AM on 05/14/2010
....and sprinkler system, and feed hoppers, and farrier....
09:28 PM on 05/18/2010
do these automatic waterers,fans and misters go with these horses on the filthy hot disgusting nyc streets. there is no need for horses on ny city streets other than the owners making untaxable or uncountable money do theses carriages have meters like the taxi`s ! give the horses a break and go get a real job! maybe pull the carriage your self and suck up auto fumes all day! if you love your horses as much as you say you do you`ll get them out of that filthy city that is owned by michael bloomdick !
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07:41 PM on 05/22/2010
So adults, children, babies in baby strollers, police horses, and dogs on leashes can go on the "filthy hot disgusting NYC streets", but not a horse? LOL

And when I gain 1200 pounds and sprout two more legs, then I'll pull a carriage LOL
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01:13 AM on 05/14/2010
Laura - after all these years, I really do not mind a true conversation with someone who opposes our industry.

BUT, in order to have that conversation, there can be no room for misinformation - and I am sorry to say, your blog entry is rife with it.

1) The horses work a maximum of 9 hours a day, not a minimum. They get lots and lots of half-days and full days off year-round due to weather, plus vacations in either Upstate NY or PA.

2) A horse is capable of pulling several TIMES its own weight on wheels with ease (and the average carriage horse weighs 1200-1800 pounds). Pulling on pavement makes it even easier. The laws of physics will tell you that an object once in motion, stays in motion - the intitial "pull" and those on inclines is really the only time a horse is actually "pulling" - the rest of the time they are just walking.

3) The stalls are not "tiny", and EVERY horse can and does lie down (really, where do you people get these things? lol). Every stable in NYC has an original CofO as a STABLE - they are not "former tenements". This is public info at the Dept of Buildings website.

4) Intro 86 is no longer "in front of the City Council". It died in committee.

I could go on, but it is late. More tomorrow :-)
11:19 AM on 05/14/2010
1) According to the law, horses can not work for more than 9 hours in a 24 hour period. Prior to the passage of Intro 35, there was no requirement for vacation, nor were carriage horse owners required to maintain any paperwork documenting voluntary vacations or retirement. If your horses are off for 6 months of the year that is truly wonderful. I would be interested to know the names and locations of the farms where they spend these rest periods.

2) The majority of stables has standing stalls, which require that the horses be tied up at all times and prevent them from lying down fully stretched out. Current regulations require that the stalls be 64 square feet or larger, which is far short of the 120 square feet or more recommended for draft horses.

3) Intro 86 is alive and well. It has not yet been voted on by the Consumer Affairs committee, which would be the next step before coming to a vote before the entire City Council, but it has been steadily gaining co-sponsors since its introduction.

The bill can be viewed on the City Council website:
http://legistar.council.nyc.gov/LegislationDetail.aspx?ID=652689&GUID=1F3959F3-5F33-48E8-89B3-2E925666348D&Options=ID|Text|&Search=86
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11:37 AM on 05/14/2010
Laura:

1)you stated that the horses work "at least" 9 hours a day. The opposite is true - they work a MAX of 9 hours a day, with lots of half days and full days off due to weather etc, as I stated. Of course there were no requirements for vacation before Intro 35A - that's why *WE* put it into law. 90-95% of the industry has been rotating horses for decades - we did it on our own, without being told. Now it is the law, period. And surely you are kidding about us divulging the names & places where our horses are turned out? LOL, do you really think we would give people an opportunity to harass the farmers or owners of the land which we use? Please.

3) Your insistence that we have standing stalls is nothing short of absurd, I can't believe anyone is still clinging to that, after it has been disproven time after time. Even Horse Sense, a commenter here, knows that isn't true, and that commenter is our leading adversary here in the city. Go ahead - ask her.
Oh, and did you see the video I posted of the stalls?

4) Intro 86 is dead, never came out of committee. If you don't believe me, call Quinn's office and ask her.
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11:41 AM on 05/14/2010
...and Laura, while I will not give you the names and addresses of where our horses are turned out for vacation, I can offer you this video of one of our own carriage owner's property, where he turns out and retires his OWN horses:

http://www.youtube.com/user/StopLiesSeeTruth#p/u/25/Yj2JZy6vWLU
10:12 PM on 05/13/2010
continued: You mention the auctions. How revealing. How many of the industry’s horses ended up at the auctions and how many went on to slaughter? Why? Because there is a loophole that you do not want to see fixed ... sort of like requiring new drivers to have a NYS driver's license, but not drivers already in the industry. It is no wonder that half of them do not know the rules of the road.

What does that actually mean that your safety record is stellar? What can it mean when the ASPCA is never around to check up on you and the NYPD is not interested. You have carte blanch to do what ever you want. It is total BS.
07:57 AM on 05/14/2010
ASPCA has an agenda. Its president is in bed with the "environmentally friendly" cars they want to replace the horses with. I smell $$$.
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12:36 PM on 05/14/2010
...and you would be 100% on target, Della.
01:40 PM on 05/18/2010
Horse Sense- Go to Pa. To The New Holland Sale. You will see Mounted Unit Horses, Ex-Racehorses both T.B's & S.B's. Why is it JUST the carriage horse people have problem's with? Or is it out of sight out of mind?
10:11 PM on 05/13/2010
Me thinketh that Mr Flynn doth protest far too much. The way he describes the horse and buggy trade in NYC, it should get awards.

But we all know the truth don’t we, Mikey. We know the new law was bogus and designed just to give the drivers a raise. We know that vacations for horses are a sham and what they really need is daily turnout to pasture, which is an impossibility. We know that your stalls do not meet the size requirement of the NYS Dept. of Agriculture and Markets. We know that the water troughs in Central Park are turned off for the winter months while the horses are parched. We know that the Department of Health recommended that horses be retired when they were 20 and the law says 26 ......and that barely scratches the surface.

This city can no longer tolerate horse-drawn carriages. You have had a good run and now it is time to go. You thought we would go away once the Mayor signed your bill. Not likely. This is an inherently inhumane and cruel industry where you deny the horse his innate nature. It is also a very dishonest industry that makes up its own facts as it goes along.
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12:52 AM on 05/14/2010
Not a "he" - but then you already knew that, didn't you? lol

And yes, I agree - the NYC carriage industry SHOULD get an award, but we don't need it.

And yes, I do know the truth - because owning and driving a carriage isn't what I do, it's who I am, and has been for 30 years.

The vacation inserted in the bill was suggested by *US* to give a minimum to the 5% of horses whose owners didn't ordinarily practice rotation; as for the rest of us, our horses get MONTHS off at a clip. For instance, our 2 horses work 6 months each - nice work if you can get it, huh?!

The NYS Dept of A & M has a minimum stall requirement that includes straight stalls which are 4 feet wide, (none of ours are less than 7ft X 8ft) so you are stating an outright falsehood, and you know it. Under the State Charter, if our stalls did not meet standards, the ASPCA has been fully empowered all these years to summons or even close operations based on such a violation. You know that, too - they carry a NYSDofA&M law book on their hipbelts! lol
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12:58 AM on 05/14/2010
As far as daily turnout goes - do you have any idea how many expensive show horses almost NEVER get turnout? Certainly not with other horses, where they can get kicked or bitten - the pasture or paddock can be a dangerous place for a horse, they can get hurt in any number of ways, and these horses are too valuable to take chances with. They spend practically their entire lives either in their stalls or in the showring. Then at the other end of the spectrum, there are tens of thousands of "backyard" horses left to rot in those lovely utopian fields you envision, without anyone to run a curry over them or give them attention, their muscles atrophied and their lives bleak. A NYC carriage horse has shelter, high quality feed, vet, dental, & farrier care, daily exercise, baths & grooming, 2X a year vet checks, vacations, and tons of human interaction. Go ahead - tell me that any one of these things is a LIE. You know better.
01:47 PM on 05/18/2010
You forgot the most expensive in the industry! RACEHORSES! How many are turned out for VACATION that are NOT injured? Oh and how many end up at New Holland or Camelot slaughter bound? ALOT! You don't see any of the bleeding hearts fighting for them. They are to busy put their money down at the window. Truth is Unless a racehorse is Breeder Shed quality , They go and the owners rarely care where!