Since when is double hearsay admissible to prove truth ?

Hearsay is a statement made out of court and not under oath which is offered as proof that what is stated is true. The hearsay rule is declared in Rule 802 of the Federal Rules of Evidence. The rule simply states that hearsay is inadmissible as evidence because of the unavailability of cross-examination to test the accuracy of the statement. There are numerous exceptions to the rule, however, mainly for statements made under circumstances that assure reliability.

If we remove the smoke and mirrors, NAFTA Gate is nothing more than a discussion about he said, that he said, that he said and at the end of the day, what he said, that he said, that he said was officially rejected as being untrue. Why then did Senator Clinton, an attorney with so much "experience," resort to using statements, the veracity of which are highly questionable, and amount to double hearsay to boot?

The response of each candidate to the unofficial Canadian memo is a gauge voters can use to determine the true character of each candidate. Senator Clinton's campaign said the memo proves that Senator Obama's campaign issued false denials about sending a private message to Canadian officials to disregard his criticisms of NAFTA. Senator Obama camp said it's all a misunderstanding, and the Canadian embassy in Washington says it regrets the whole thing.

On Tuesday, February 26, while debating in Cleveland, Ohio, both Senators Clinton and Obama took identical stands on NAFTA. Both agreed when pressed by NBC's Tim Russert that they would threaten to pull the U.S. out of NAFTA unless Canada and Mexico agree to new terms.

According to factcheck.org, on Wednesday, February 27, the Canadian television network (CTV) ran a story headlined, "Obama staffer gave warning of NAFTA rhetoric." Quoting anonymous sources, it said a top Obama "staff member" telephoned
Canada's ambassador to the U.S. to warn that the candidate's criticisms of NAFTA should not be taken seriously.

Curiously, Senator Clinton is alleged to have engaged in the same conversation with Canadian officials for which she casts dispersions on the character of Senator Obama. On February 27, she categorically denied that she made any such statements but engaged in a desperate media blitz about double hearsay statements regarding Senator Obama's. An explanation of why Senator Obama's denials are deemed false and the denials of Senator Clinton are accurate. Perhaps this tactic is nothing more than gamesmanship designed to divert our attention from the truth about her historical stand on NAFTA.

On Thursday, February 28, the Canadian embassy in Washington called the CTV story about Senator Obama "untrue": "The Canadian Embassy confirmed that at no time has any member of a Presidential campaign called the Canadian Ambassador or any official at the Embassy to discuss NAFTA. Last night the Canadian television network, CTV, falsely reported that such calls had been made. That story is untrue. Neither before nor since the Ohio debate has any Presidential campaign called Ambassador Wilson or the Embassy to raise NAFTA."

Despite the disseverment by the Canadian Embassy on Thursday, the Clinton campaign issued a press release headlined "NAFTA-Gate: False Denials from the Obama Campaign." The press release was issued on Monday, March 3 and lists various statements purportedly made by Senator Obama or his campaign staff denying any such contact between anyone from his campaign and Canadian officials. In a conference call with reporters, Clinton spokesman Howard Wolfson said that "the Obama campaign conveyed to the people of Ohio one thing about NAFTA, and conveyed another thing to the Canadian government."

The ridiculousness of this unwarranted diatribe by the media and Senator Clinton is all too obvious. We have enough serious national and international issues with which we should be concerned and which make it entirely unnecessary to engage in a massive media blitz about false and trivial minutia. It is time to cease and desist from all that insults the intelligence of the American people. We have been victimized by lies and secrets long enough.

To further aggravate matters, the timing of the events that transpired wreaks of a political set up. Auston Goolsbee, an economics professor at the University of Chicago and the senior economic adviser to the Obama campaign Goolsbee said the meeting took place at the invitation of the Canadians, and lasted about 40 minutes including perhaps two to three minutes discussing NAFTA, according to the Associated Press (AP). The AP quoted Obama spokesman Bill Burton as saying that Goolsbee was not representing the campaign during the visit and was not authorized to share any messages from the campaign.

Thankfully, the Canadian government denounced the entire matter yesterday, silencing all of the political pundits who exhausted the air waves over the weekend. Senator Clinton's camp is silenced on the matter as well. The Canadian embassy in Washington officially said it "deeply regrets" the affair, and that "there was no intention to convey, in any way" that Obama was being inconsistent about NAFTA. The affair causes a row in the Canadian Parliament. Jack Layton, the head of Canada's New Democratic Party, accused Prime Minister Stephen Harper's Conservative Party government of "interfering in the U.S. Democratic primaries ith false accusations trying to silence Barack Obama who simply wants to amend the NAFTA."

All facts are based on information from factcheck.org.


 
 

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- KaAp See Profile I'm a Fan of KaAp permalink

He probably would have won Ohio, but, we cannot think about what transpired there we can think ahead and try to find a way to make sure the damage their kitchen sink strategy has accomplished is minimized and that she is finally put out to pasture with the former president ...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:30 AM on 03/10/2008
- seted See Profile I'm a Fan of seted permalink

For everyone who has doubts about whether or not this happened I suggest they go online and read some of the Canadian newspapers and see what they have to say about it without the filter we have on our press.
http://broadcast-live.com/newspapers/canadian.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:51 PM on 03/07/2008
- quicknsilverfox See Profile I'm a Fan of quicknsilverfox permalink

Timeline for Hillary's "NAFTAgate"

February 26 - Ian Brodie tells reporters from CTV that the Clinton campaign contacted Canadian officials to advise them ahead of the Obama/Clinton debate that they should disregard Hillary s remarks about NAFTA, that she will just be engaging in political posturing for votes.

February 26 - Obama/Clinton debate

February 27 - CTV's Tom Clark calls NAFTA architect and now Canadian ambassador Michael Wilson in D.C. to verify story and Wilson tells him it was Obama, not Clinton, who called him and told him to disregard his remarks about NAFTA as political posturing. Clark runs Michael Wilson version instead of Brodie's.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080228/turkey_Gates_080228/20080229

February 29 - CTV's Tom Clark's second hit job

http://sympaticomsn.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060214/wilson_post_060214

March 1 - Bill Clinton flies to Canada

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/04e7c2a6-e735-11dc-b5c3-0000779fd2ac.html

March 3 - Bill Clinton returns to U.S. from Canada and an alleged Canadian diplomatic memo alleging Obama economic advisor met with and told Canadian diplomats Obama's NAFTA talk was just political posturing is mysteriously leaked to AP. Hillary does last minute stump speeches in Ohio dramatically waving the Canadian memo as "proof" Obama is just another two-faced politician.

March 4 - Clinton wins Ohio by 10 pts.

Canada's investigation should focus on Michael Wilson's role in this fiasco. Ian Brodie's comments to CTV reporters about the Clinton campaign's back channel request to disregard her political rhetoric regarding NAFTA may have been inappropriate, but Ambassador Michael Wilson should be deported as an undesirable alien for his intercept of the story and his deceitful manipulation of facts to protect Hillary Clinton and shift the blame to Obama.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:09 PM on 03/07/2008
- lovethesinner See Profile I'm a Fan of lovethesinner permalink

One thing is certain, when the Royal Canadian Mounted Police get their hands on this case, the truth will be discovered. The kind and gentle nature of Canadians makes people believe they are somehow... soft. Inefficient. I can just picture Bill bragging to the aide he had plant the story "by the time Pennsylvania comes around, the trail will be dead, it'll blow over in a week and nobody will even go looking."

But, the RCMP isn't likely to let a thing like this go. It's a matter of pride. Their motto is "A mounty always gets his man."

I'm sure they've made the necessary corrections for gender identity, regardless of their motto's inferance.

Obama/Webb in '08

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:34 PM on 03/06/2008
- Tranquility See Profile I'm a Fan of Tranquility permalink

Not true. Obama's economic advisor has been outed as the contact who talked with the Canadian gov't. Obama admits the meeting took place. A week after denying it. Let's just tell the truth. If Clinton's camp did it too, provide a name.

The Conservative gov't in Canada is in big trouble right now on a lot issues. The Globe is now a right wing paper. . You can't believe a word the gov't says. The only way we know Obama's camp did contact them is because of the memo and Obama's admission. It appears that they leaked this to help the Republicans, although, I personally think they are just dumb and started panicking because they are really vested in 'free-trade' for reasons I won't posit as our prime minister has been threatening to sue everyone lately. lol This is why I don't trust Obama. I see a lot of lies. And, a lot of manipulation. Deep in his rhetoric are buzz words and tone of someone quite comfortable with the corporate status quo. If he wins, I sincerely hope I am mistaken. I don't trust Clinton either, but I think she has fewer personal flaws than anyone we've seen in a long while and possibly will make things better for children. Obama says retrain to 'compete in the global economy, when workers in third world countries earn cents an hour. He says get an education when the universities are out of reach to the average American. Sorry. I'm not buying it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:12 AM on 03/06/2008
- furion See Profile I'm a Fan of furion permalink

"This is why I don't trust Obama. I see a lot of lies. And, a lot of manipulation."

I suppose you don't trust Hillary then, either?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:22 AM on 03/06/2008
- Tranquility See Profile I'm a Fan of Tranquility permalink

No, I don't trust Hillary, as I wrote above. However, I am concerned about the horrid tactics the Obama campaign are engaging in. Among the worst is accusing the Clintons of racism when in fact they were among the people who worked hard for racial equality and clearly are not racist. I am shaken by the level of misogyny. I am concerned about the incongruence of Obama's rhetoric and what he says betwn the lines about globalization and 'free' trade. Here in Canada, we are really used to our politicians, of late, who preach progressive values and in fact are neo-conservative and there is a similarity of language that Obama engages in.

So, no, I don't trust her. But, I think she may have more compassion towards people who are suffering. I think she has fewer personal flaws, such as untreated (albeit abstinence, or the 'dry drunk' phenomena) of substance abuse, or even sex addiction, as we saw with her husband. I'm tired of that addictive personality type which makes neo-conservatism so very attractive to those with that personality. It has been shown that both sides of a women's brain are able to communicate at the same time, unlike the male brain, and there is a possibility that that fact may enable Clinton to be just a touch more creative about problem solving, right now. But, you know, I really don't know. I'm glad I can't vote because it's very difficult to tell. I am having a gut reaction to the discordance between what Obama is saying and what he is actually doing. I wish there was a truly progressive candidate who says out loud what we already know and that is that Friedman's economic theory has proven a dismal failure and that we need to resurrect Keynesian economics which has a proven track record of success.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:27 PM on 03/06/2008
- furion See Profile I'm a Fan of furion permalink

Yep. I'm glad to see this on HuffPo. Now we need to see it in the MSM.

They want to prove they're FAIR after all, don't they?

Yet another Canadian Press affiliate reporting it was CLINTON who first approached the Canadians to tell them it was just talk:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080305.wharpleak0305/BNStory/National/home

Let us bow our heads... and then kick Clinton's ass.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:56 AM on 03/06/2008
- CaptainObvious See Profile I'm a Fan of CaptainObvious permalink

"Quite a few people heard it," said one source in the room.

"He said someone from (Hillary) Clinton"s campaign is telling the embassy to take it with a grain of salt ... That someone called us and told us not to worry."

Government officials did not deny the conversation took place.

http://www.winnipegsun.com/News/Canada/2008/03/05/4920601.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:25 AM on 03/06/2008
- elioteo See Profile I'm a Fan of elioteo permalink

http://www.cbc.ca/mrl3/8752/vsu/wmv-hi/macdonald-obama-memo080303.wmv

Partial transcript of the above CBC newsclip:

"The Canadian Embassy here is mortified. The Obama campaign is enraged. And Ottawa is now trying to repair the damage."

Turns out, a few weeks earlier (before the Ohio debate), "Canadian diplomats in Chicago had pleaded for a meeting with Obama's economics advisor, Austan Goolsbee."

"After the Ohio debate ... sources suggest someone in Stephen Harper's government decided to leak their own version of Obama's views."

"Within hours, CTV news was reporting Obama's people had phoned the Canadian government, not the other way around. Their report also said - incorrectly - that an Obama operative had directly warned Michael Wilson, the Canadian Ambassador in Washington, telling him not to take Obama's NAFTA rhetoric seriously, effectively the story suggested Obama was lying to the Ohio voters."

"Obama's rivals pounced and they've been pouncing ever since."

"Meanwhile the Canadian Embassy reviewed the diplomatic cable, acknowledged it may have misrepresented the Obama advisor, apologized to Obama and issued a blanket denial. But too late."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:41 AM on 03/06/2008
- frustratedinohio See Profile I'm a Fan of frustratedinohio permalink

You guys are sore losers. Obama weasled his way out of this by saying the senior economic adviser to the Obama campaign, Goolsbee, was not representing his campaign during the visit. Give me a break.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:42 PM on 03/05/2008
- copesthetics See Profile I'm a Fan of copesthetics permalink

you're an uniformed, ignorant voter... you'd be sore, too, if you bothered reading anything but the headlines, ace.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:41 AM on 03/06/2008
- CaptainObvious See Profile I'm a Fan of CaptainObvious permalink

Didn't read the article? Let me summarize it for you:

IT WAS THE CLINTON CAMPAIGN THAT SAID THAT *THEIR* NAFTA POSITION WAS JUST POLITICAL. NOT OBAMA'S.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:15 AM on 03/06/2008
- Tranquility See Profile I'm a Fan of Tranquility permalink

But, the article isn't telling the truth!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:02 AM on 03/06/2008
- DennyCrane See Profile I'm a Fan of DennyCrane permalink

This is yet another reason to despise the Clintons. They start false rumors at the last minute. People go into the voting booth with the wrong information and only afterwards, discover the truth. I bet the stuff about NAFTA ended up hurting Obama. Had this story been debunked sooner, I bet he would've won Ohio.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:07 PM on 03/05/2008
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