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Luis J. Rodriguez

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Why We Need a Deeper Dialogue on Black-and-Brown Relations

Posted: 08/31/11 12:12 AM ET

Recently, African American comedian Katt Williams went on a xenophobic anti-Mexican rant during a comedy show on August 27th in Phoenix, Arizona, apparently in response to a heckler. In comedy it's painfully hard dealing with audience barbs and catcalls (no pun intended), although everyone knows this is part of the life and any comedian worth their salt generally address such attacks with their most powerful weapon--humor.

Yet we get those instances when a comedian loses it. Here is some of what Katt Williams said during his tirade:

"... it appears to me, y'all like it over here a lot... If y'all had California and you loved it, then you shouldn't have given that mothaf*cka up. You should have fought for California, goddamnit, since you love it... Are you Mexican? Do you know where Mexico is? No this ain't Mexico, it used to be Mexico, motherf*cker, and now it's Phoenix, goddammit. USA! USA!... No n*gga, do you know where you at? USA! USA!... No n*gga, this is my hood... [security comes] F*ck him! Mothaf*ckas think they can live in this country and pledge allegiance to another country... Do you remember when white people used to say go back to Africa? And we'd have to tell them we don't want to? So if you love Mexico, bitch, get the f*ck over there! [breaks into the National Anthem]... We were slaves bitch, you just all work like that at the landscapers..."

There was more, but I'm sure you get the idea. I apologize to anyone offended by seeing this, but I have to contribute my two centavos on this matter (and the way our economy is going, two centavos may soon be worth more than two cents). Now, I don't mean to fuel any animosity between African Americans and Mexicans, whites and anyone else. God knows there are enough attacks against one another for superficial and ridiculous reasons (and attacking anyone for their so-called race or ethnicity is silly). What we often forget is that idiots come in all colors--if I have any prejudice it's against people who don't know what they're talking about, who don't know their own history, let alone that of others.

So instead of going off myself, I'm going to make this a "teaching moment" (I know, this is dumb cliché, but you get the point). Why react in kind to Mr. Williams in an already negative environment; this issue is bigger than one bad night at the comedy club (a small message to Mr. Williams: There is always going to be bad nights at the club, get over it).

Mexicans did fight for California. In fact, the one major battle they had with Anglo forces invading California they won, with horses and lances, just outside of Los Angeles. Unfortunately, the decision to turn the state over to the United States was made in Washington D.C. without the input of the people involved.

In fact, there was a whole war that Mexicans fought to stop the illegal invasion, which, lest Mr. Williams forget, was being pushed by the slave-owning interests in the United States. It was Southern slaveholders who ignited the war to rip Texas away from Mexico when Anglos refused to accept Mexico's laws against slavery.

Mexico had abolished slavery in the early 1800s, way before the Emancipation Proclamation; Mexico even had at least two African-Mexicans as presidents some two hundreds years before Barack Obama was elected president in this country.

The main catalyst for the Mexican war was the refusal of Mexico to return black slaves--believed to be more than 10,000--who had taken the southern-route of the "underground railroad," crossing the border to a free Mexico. In Mexico's governing assembly heavy debates on the issue ended up with the majority supporting these slaves, allowing them to own land, to farm, to become part of the Mexican social fabric.
Mexicans were willing to die so blacks could be free.

The invasion, led by a more powerful U.S. army against a mostly poor and subjugated Indian population (including lots of African-Mexicans, who make up the great third of Mexico's racial heritage) killed upwards of 25,000, mostly civilians, when there was less than eight million people. This invasion was soon denounced around the world. The national and international outcry forced the U.S. to back off from taking over all of Mexico and to pay $15 million for more than half of Mexico's territory (this amounted to less than .002 cents per acre).

Unfortunately, for Mexico, the U.S. obtained 60 percent of Mexico's mineral wealth, including gold and oil that were eventually discovered and exploited by U.S.-based interests and companies. If Mexico still controlled these lands, it'd have eventually become the world's largest oil producer.

Today Mexico has one of the world's highest poverty rate (with 60 percent unemployment and underemployment), the city with the highest murder rate in the world (Ciudad Juarez, due to the recent anti-drug lord campaign of President Felipe Calderon, instigated by the Bush Administration), and vast losses of agricultural as well as manufacturing income from the so-called North American Free Trade Agreement.

Millions of Mexicans have been forced to cross the border to the United States to "slave" in the farm fields, the cheap labor sweatshops, and, yes, the landscaping industries. All of which became profitable for U.S.-owners of such shops and industries, profits that have helped keep an economy going, even when many U.S. corporations decided to send jobs--including inner-city jobs--to other countries.

You can't blame Mexicans for this rising joblessness. This is mainly the result of greedy industrial and financial interests who care about as much for African Americans in the South or the urban core--or poor whites for that matter--as they do for Mexicans.

In other words, zilch.

It's time to base our actions and words on our unified histories, our real interests as working people, and not fall into the traps of blaming one another due to race or other nonsensical reasons. Any energy spent by Africans Americans against Mexicans--or Mexicans against African Americans, since this is equally wrong--is energy that could be better spent fighting for justice, economic equity, and a social transformation that benefits our children, our wellbeing, and future generations.

Like I said this is bigger than Mr. Williams. This is about the footprint or legacy we all want to leave in this world--mine will go with the anti-slavery Mexicans just as I join with African Americans who spoke out against Katt William's rant. My impact I hope will be with the growing surge of all peoples against war and poverty as well as to end the control of our homes, jobs, and lives by a smaller and smaller corporate class.

Mr. Williams, you love the U.S.A. so much, why don't you rant against that!

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04:05 PM on 09/17/2011
If I could expand and Piggy back on Mark Half Moon's,CarlosQC comments. I Think another perspective that most should consider when listening to the Mexican perspective/debate and in response to the Idea that the south west is actually theirs. That would be the same as the Odyssey Black Swan Gold actually benefiting Peru instead of Spain or a US Corporation. The Decedents of the Spanish aristocracy still run Mexico and still exploit the Indians and descendents of slaves. (PBS Black in Mexico). Mexico has always had wealthy people and natural resources, what was left anyway? 10% of Mexico is white Spanish speaking folk, who, in turn control 90 of the wealth! California, Texas, Arizona, and New Mexico was theirs and not yours referring to Indians and Mestizos. The Last time I checked, on Gala Vision all the people look white. So, that means they still run it. So the benefits of the past, present, were not intended for the, so called true decedents. Know who your enemy is, then talk sh_t!
12:46 PM on 09/11/2011
What I find interesting is the level of distance and hierarchical structure that exists within the broad Latino communities. Mexicans are placed at the bottom rung, along with Ecuadorians and Peruvians.
03:08 PM on 09/10/2011
I am sure that Mr Rodriquez is educating many people, not just Mr Williams and his community, but members of the brown community as well on one aspect of the relationship between Mexicans and African Americans. So,Mr Rodriquez please continue to educate your community to the whole facts behind the relationship. Like, what was the advantages for Mexico to do so? Sort of what America is charged with doing with today's immigrants, perhaps? Please do not have us believe that it was the goodness of the Mexican govt that abolished slavery and open Mexican borders to slaves? Perhaps, it had more to do with ticking off slave owners? Disrupting their economic flow? And, what has happened to that relationship? We surely do not hear of strong ties between Mexicans and African Americans and surely it is not just the fault of one community.
05:21 PM on 09/10/2011
" Please do not have us believe that it was the goodness of the Mexican govt that abolished slavery and open Mexican borders to slaves " -- why is that so hard to believe, that their motives may have been pure? Why be so cynical? The point made is that many Africans actually intermarried early on in Mexico, and became part of their racial heritage, to some degree. Because Mexico's mestizo population is so vast, and more racially mixed than the US, it is not as obvious that many have African ancestors... but i've met more than a few Blacktino's, as my friend calls himself with humor...
10:39 PM on 09/10/2011
Mr Rodriquez's one-sided argument was the cause of my cynical response. He is actually doing just what Mr W did, just in,what he believes, is a more appropriate way. Mexicans have their biases and he does not touch on that. I am insulted that he attempts to pull the wool over our eyes. There is a color bias within the Latino/a people that is well documented. And yes, I am well aware of the vastness of African ancestry and I am aware of the geographical section in Mexico that has strong African heritage and I am aware of the very strong color bias that resides within the mentality of Mexican people and Latino/a population in general.
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Mark Halfmoon
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10:50 PM on 09/10/2011
The president of Mexico, who issued the proclamation freeing all of the slaves in Mexico in 1829 was a black man named Vicente Guerrero. He had been a leader in Mexico's War for Independence against Spain from 1810 to 1821. I would say that he being black himself may have played a role in his distaste for black slavery, but the leader of the rebellion, Father Miguel Hidalgo y Costilla had already declared slavery abolished at the beginning of the uprising in 1810, but it wasn't official until the Independence War finished.
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CarlosQC
Camila Munaylla
01:49 PM on 09/06/2011
Most of Brown people that migrate to the U.S. are working class and poor Indigenous and African descendants, who are discriminated by the White Hispanic elites of Latin America who equally hate African descendant and Native Americans, the same way most Anglos do in the northern nations of the Americas do. We need to remember this.

Also, White supremacist racism is sometimes promoted by Black and Brown peoples who dislike their own -- Katt Williams is a good example. For the sake of humanity, we people of all colors and backgrounds need to unite and stop dividing each other because our diversity and differences.

Thank you Luis J. Rodriguez for this excellent analysis of our history and challenges for our common future.
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FLECKENSTEIN44
Pointing out the hypocrisy of the Left and Right
07:33 PM on 09/06/2011
Nahh rather not if we do that you would probably try to enslave whites from the way your talking.
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01:31 PM on 09/08/2011
Only the intelligent ones. You needn't worry.
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RTF372
01:46 AM on 09/07/2011
Interestingly enough, the Spaniard elites of Mexico and other Latin American countries discriminate against black people, Latino blacks or otherwise, when the truth is they themselves actually have black DNA. Mediterranean Europe gets its dark hair (and in many cases course hair), taste in music, and style of dance from their Northern African ancestors. Mexicans and Chicanos who justify their prejudices of blacks with their Spaniard, European heritage, actually have more in common with black people genetically than they with Latinos of mostly indigenous descent.
07:51 PM on 09/09/2011
Well said. I'm more indian than most chicanos. I can name my kin's indigenous origin tales and traditions that predate the Inkas. My clan speaks quechua on both my and my wife's side of the family. Most Chicanos I meet are very light mestizos who likely do not know the hamlet or village that provided them their diverse bloodline. Though there is nothng wrong w/ racial mixture humans finding love and choosing to love a person of a different ethnicity is a reflection of the human condition to seek love and companionship w/o discrimination to the loved and accompanioned.
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hjo4
Don't make your problems mine
01:20 PM on 09/06/2011
One of the problems is that every Latin American country discriminates against their own Black citizens.They come to America (legally or not) and try that same type of behavior against American Blacks. One thing went wrong,we American Blacks don't play or tolerate that bullshit especially from those who made a choice NOT to participate in the Civil Rights Struggle that they BENEFIT from today.American Black citizens are not passive, ignorant nor will we accept being treated less than by the same folks who we helped be able to come to America in a masses.Before any so-called dialogue to occur between Hispanics or Latinos and African Americans, Latinos need to check their racist attitudes and hatred against their Benefactor African Americans at the door and they must treat their own Latin American Black countrymen like human beings,not like dogs or worse as they do now.
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Ezio
How can we win when fools can be kings?
11:09 AM on 09/06/2011
The Mexican army was both larger and better trained than the Americans they fought against at that time. Also, the Americans were not there illegally, they were enticed to come to Texas in order for Mexico to boost their population.

Whoever came out on top would have ended up the preeminent power in the world 200 years later.
09:25 AM on 09/06/2011
Mr. Rodriquez,

Thank you for the insight into history. That is history I didn't know and will following up with some research on.

You present some very complex issues and boil them down to very simple answers. I think you do so in a fashion that does not address the current issues today.

First, corporate America does play a vital role in the economy we see today. The first priniciple of any corporation is to their shareholders and following, it is prudent to hire and maintain the least expensive working force. Interestingly enough, that does not include the executive officers of the companies. In doing so, the lowest economic tier becomes one in which workers are pitted against each other and often results in racial and economonic wars. But, to suggest that people are "made" to come to this country in order to continue that war is simply not supported in your argument.

Second, you raise the issue of starting a dialogue however, it appears there are is no real conversation in which you identify the things both cultures have in common rather, you suggest that Mexico has done much for African Americans without sighting any recipricol interactions. One I can think of is Dr. King and his support and allied stance with Cesar Chavez. Many would not know of the important fight this man did in addressing conditions of migrant field workers had not Dr. King exposed it.
11:02 PM on 09/07/2011
"But, to suggest that people are "made" to come to this country in order to continue that war is simply not supported in your argument."
--I believe you misread. He is suggesting that they are 'made' to come here in order to survive and provide for their families which he illustrates here:
"Today Mexico has one of the world's highest poverty rate (with 60 percent unemployment and underemployment), the city with the highest murder rate in the world (Ciudad Juarez, due to the recent anti-drug lord campaign of President Felipe Calderon, instigated by the Bush Administration), and vast losses of agricultural as well as manufacturing income from the so-called North American Free Trade Agreement.
Millions of Mexicans have been forced to cross the border to the United States to "slave" in the farm fields, the cheap labor sweatshops, and, yes, the landscaping industries. All of which became profitable for U.S.-owners of such shops and industries, profits that have helped keep an economy going, even when many U.S. corporations decided to send jobs--including inner-city jobs--to other countries."
09:25 AM on 09/06/2011
Con't

Finally, you end your statement with a back handed slap towards the comedian. In doing so, you suggest that his "standing up for America" is less than admirable. In a country where all of us live, do you feel that is a course which will lead to better understanding and dialogue between the races?

Might I suggest this? There are certainly economic and educational goals that both communities need to focus on . Further, in cities such as LA there is a tipping point where the violence has become so out of control the best and brightest of both communities is quickly be removed. Further, there are some key economic issues/infrastructures that both communities need and would mutually benefit both of them.

Finally, when one discusses the communities at hand, one has to be mindful of the disservice the media plays in trying to fan the flames of mistrust. To continue on this line only serves to further create gaps bewteen the communities.
11:08 PM on 09/07/2011
"Finally, you end your statement with a back handed slap towards the comedian. In doing so, you suggest that his "standing up for America" is less than admirable."

--A back-handed slap? hardly. I'm not sure how you derived that from what he said. How about a challenge to look at real issues of justice and not petty rivalry based on false nationalistic ideals like he illustrated very clearly here:

"It's time to base our actions and words on our unified histories, our real interests as working people, and not fall into the traps of blaming one another due to race or other nonsensical reasons. Any energy spent by Africans Americans against Mexicans--or Mexicans against African Americans, since this is equally wrong--is energy that could be better spent fighting for justice, economic equity, and a social transformation that benefits our children, our wellbeing, and future generations."
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Puzzlr
thegrouphugdotorg
03:37 AM on 09/06/2011
With all due respect to Mr. Rodriguez (he wouldn't be biased against Mr Williams, now would he?), this was a heckler who got what he deserved. You don't heckle good comedians. Katt is no Micheal Richards who can only sputter a racial slur. Katt is going to break you down and show you up. You don't enter a club/venue late in front of a black comedian and you don't heckle them.

I had the pleasure of seeing Mr Bill Cosby do a stand-up routine and sure enough a woman arrived late. Guess what Mr. Cosby did? He did almost 3 minutes on this woman and it was funny. Most of his humor focused on her appearance, but being Cosby, he didn't go blue.
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PunKinPai
Tact is just not saying true stuff. I’ll pass.
03:37 PM on 09/07/2011
Nobody seems to notice that the audience -- including the heckler -- laughed during much of Katt's rant. And to my knowledge, nobody has printed exactly what the heckler said to start this off. I thought Katt was passionate and funny. If the largely hispanic audience had thought he was out of line, there would have been boos and hasty exits. If they didn't mind, I certainly don't.
01:28 AM on 09/06/2011
If Mexico still had California, they would still be trying to get into the US, and Califronia would be a dump. Let face is since the beginning of time people and coutries have taken over land and lost land, I doubt Mexico is innocent of taking or claiming land, nor the American Indians for that matter. However, if its Anglos its clearly a bad thing.....
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Puzzlr
thegrouphugdotorg
03:39 AM on 09/06/2011
"I doubt Mexico is innocent of taking or claiming land, nor the American Indians for that matter."

True.
02:48 PM on 09/06/2011
Typical white defense mechanism:

"Well i'm sure someone must have done it a very long time ago".

Perhaps, but no one has done it (and still is doing it) in every corner of the globe.
02:59 PM on 09/06/2011
Lets be honest some countries were more developed then others with there naval skills. My defense is legit and you despise it....
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GravitonX
10^300 bosons could care less.
09:56 PM on 09/07/2011
True. They always sound like the unrepentant child who tries to look for someone or something worse to cover their guilt.
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Arturo Ramrez
02:15 PM on 09/05/2011
One of my comments was removed because it included the world t-r-a-n-s-national. What kind of moderating algorythm is that?????
08:14 AM on 09/05/2011
When you do stand-up and some heckles there's an unwritten rule that you as the heckler put yourself at risk of being embarrassed so just shut up because most comedians have been heckled so they've prepared for the next heckler so heckling someone is done so at your own risk ! Get em Katt !
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Mark Halfmoon
Photographer
06:31 PM on 09/05/2011
So, what that Seinfeld dude did was OK with you?
02:34 AM on 09/06/2011
What Seinfeld dude ? Michael Richards ? Hell it was his show he can do what he wants ! If Black people are going to let some cracker calling them ni^^er offend them then we haven't come so far now have we !
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Lordcron
Progressives Push Forward!
04:22 AM on 09/05/2011
He was clearly show boating But, I love his patriotism.
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Mark Halfmoon
Photographer
06:33 PM on 09/05/2011
That wasn't patriotism. That was xenophobia.
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JohnnyAce Okeke
GRAND MASTER SEN$Ei {{-_-}}â„¢
07:37 PM on 09/05/2011
That was patriotism. Katt Williams did not say anything offensive to any Mexicans except that ONE who was heckling him. {{-_-}}
02:22 AM on 09/05/2011
there should be dialogue, let's start on all the black and hispanic hate crimes committed on each other that gets marked down as "gang" violence when it's really a hate crime.
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GravitonX
10^300 bosons could care less.
10:46 PM on 09/08/2011
Whites are busy trying to stir Blacks and Hispanics against each other because they know that both have a history against whites that doesn't mean good things in the future.
02:20 AM on 09/05/2011
what's all the "We" need deeper dialogue? It's the liberals that care so much that Mexicans and blacks fall in line with all their agendas. Anyone one else is allowed to have free range on their opinions.