THE SECRET
Emma: So we open with Adam this time.
Lori L.: Yes!
Emma: I'm excited that we've gotten to see more of him without Hannah this season.
Lori L.: Me too. He's so much more interesting/likable when he's separate from her.
Margaret: It feels to me like there's been more sustained focus on individual characters rather than the ensemble this season, and not just in the Patrick Wilson episode and on Jessa's trip home last week. Am I just imagining that?
Lori L.: No, its true, and I like it better.
Margaret: I think you're right about Adam, Lori L. I like seeing him not in relation to Hannah. It's great to see him have his own story
Margaret: And he's so wonderfully weird.
Emma: Agreed. He was very likable this episode. Also it was a totally Adam move to drink milk that had been sitting next to his bed.
Margaret: Ugh. Very like him.
Lori F.: Also, does Adam have a flip phone?
Margaret: Does he?
Emma: HE DOES.
Margaret: Note that you are a BlackBerry user, Lori F.
Lori F.: I knew I was setting myself up for that.
Lori L.: I was just going to point that out.
Margaret: So should we start with the counting?
Emma: I didn't quite understand what was going on at first. At first I thought that Hannah was just paranoid about Adam.
Lori F.: It was clear there was some kind of compulsive behavior going on, but I didn't know exactly what.
Emma: I think it fully sank in when she was counting her chips.
Lori L.: I thought it was a dieting thing.
Margaret: Oh, interesting. I can see that.
Lori F.: I would have except that she was doing it with everything.
Margaret: Did this feel REALLY out of the blue to anyone else?
Lori F.: Yes, definitely.
Lori L.: It did to me too -- and yet somehow it fits.
Lori F.: I don't think there were hints. Or at least if there were, I missed them.
Margaret: Well, that's what I wondered -- did I miss some clue earlier on?
Emma: I'm willing to buy the explanation that it hasn't acted up since high school. She's clearly traumatized about it, so she doesn't tell people that it's something she's struggled with.
Lori L.: And that the book deadline spurred it again.
Margaret: I agree that it fits her, but I'd be more impressed with the writers if she referred back to something in an earlier episode that we wouldn't have noticed but makes it make sense now.
Lori F.: Well, there was her big secret about masturbation that she told Marnie (which she mentions later).
Emma: True! Honestly, I'm just excited that they decided to tackle mental health at all.
Margaret: Did that surprise you? I feel like the show is very much Generation Therapy.
Lori L.: Emma, I am so with you. It's actually been niggling at me both seasons. There is no way that not one of these characters has a therapist, or doesn't reference a medication.
Emma: Right. It HAD to come up.
Margaret: That hadn't occurred to me, and I think you're right. I'm surprised Hannah hasn't been in weekly therapy for years, actually. She would love the audience.
Emma: But she's very resistant to the idea that she has an issue to deal with.
Margaret: Well, this issue at least.
Lori L.: That resistance made sense to me, though.
Emma: It made sense to me, too. It's part of the stress. She has a book to finish. She doesn't have time to have an issue.
Emma: Right. And I think she feels as if her entire career hangs on this project.
Lori L.: Because, well, it kinda does.
Emma: Yeah, I guess that's true as of now. It's her first big opportunity.
Margaret: I was just thinking that. Even if it doesn't do well, when she tries to do future stuff, those she pitches will look at this first book.
Emma: Okay, so we next see Hannah meeting up with her parents at the Carlyle -- fashionably late, of course.
"A HANNAH CUSHION"
Emma: "I always factor in a Hannah cushion of 15 to 45 minutes." I love her parents.
Margaret: I loved them more than ever this episode
Lori F.: Yes, I love them this episode too. You see how much they care about her. Not that it was in question, but there is genuine concern and understanding.
Emma: Absolutely. They don't always know how to help her, but they try to as best they can. I loved how right away her mom noticed her tics and asked her about them at dinner.
Margaret: It was also interesting that this brings her back under her parents' wing at the moment she's breaking out on her own. I wondered if it was subconscious. She doesn't want to need them and doesn't want to have an issue, like Lori L. said, but this is involving them more, not less.
Lori F.: You mean like she really needed someone to take care of her?
Emma: I didn't think it was a subconscious call for help from her parents. I felt more like it was just the way her mind is dealing with being completely overwhelmed. She has this book deal, her friend just ditched her in upstate New York, her other best friend is pretty cut off from her. She doesn't have a whole lot of support right now. Plus she has this potentially life-altering book deal which she's so anxious about that she can't really write it.
Lori F.: So do you think this is a way of her feeling in control of something?
Margaret: I think that makes sense, too. I think it can be both.
Lori L.: I agree with Margaret's first comment -- she actually needs her parents right now. She's terrified of the book because if she succeeds or fails, either way it's her first big step as an adult. I also agree that she's also very vulnerable because of the breakup with Adam, the rift with Jessa, Marnie's distance.... It's all really destabilizing and terrifying.
Margaret: And when you're in your early 20s, I think it's easy to fall back into whatever behaviors you used to comfort yourself when you were younger.
Emma: That's very true.
"I HATE IT WHEN YOU LOOK SO CONCERNED ABOUT ME"
Emma: I found it realistic that she was so resistant to admitting to her parents that this issue had crept back up. And you really could feel her struggling to not count at dinner.
Lori L.: Her mother seems so on top of it all, and her father rather clueless and in denial.
Emma: I think he tries to keep the peace all the time. And her mom has to say the tough things.
Lori L.: As a side note: I used to sing that Judy Collins song at camp. I knew every word.
Lori F.: I loved when Hannah told her parents that genetics was "the ultimate your fault."
Lori L.: LOVED.
Emma: I laughed out loud at that line.
Margaret: They always get back to this: Hannah blames her parents for her problems, her dad is confounded and her mom gets defensive.
Emma: It was also interesting that her parents' suggested solution was to take her away from everything and go back to the Midwest.
Lori L.: To her pediatrician!
Margaret: Her parents are in regression mode, too. Well, her father is. I think he would love to have her home. Her mother, less so.
Lori F.: I think she's his little girl, and he just wants to protect her
Emma: For everything Hannah is though, she's not one to run away. If she's going to deal with her OCD, she's going to do it from New York.
Margaret: One thing I really liked about this experience for her is that I didn't get any sense that it was "for the story." She was genuinely freaked out and did not want to think about or talk about it. She didn't want it to exist.
Emma: I agree. And it makes so much sense. She's filled with shame about it. And unfortunately I think that's how a lot of people feel about mental health issues.
Lori F.: Yes, definitely. This is NOT the story she wants to tell, although it's fascinating. Much more interesting than her coke adventures, I think.
Emma: Absolutely.
Lori L.: Agree, and it was so much easier to sympathize with her over this.
Margaret: Much easier.
Lori L.: She became real in some sense, and not just an actress in her own life story.
Margaret: Yes! She wanted no role in this.
Lori L.: And OCD isn't literary the way depression and addiction can be. There's no good material here.
Lori F.: But that's exactly it -- she thinks there's no material because she's so focused on what others might want to read.
Margaret: And we are fascinated by it.
Emma: Right. If she wrote more about her real experience, other people would probably connect to her more.
Lori L.: What about her dad's clueless anorexia comments?
Emma: Oh god, that was cringe-worthy.
Lori F.: "I've seen you in a bathing suit." Oh, wow, Mr. Horvath.
Margaret: You know what's weird -- it actually didn't bother me that much. It was just so hapless on his part.
Emma: Yeah, it felt more clueless than thoughtless.
Margaret: And Hannah was making a joke about herself, but not in a self-loathing way. Saying "maybe I'm anorexic" was just a way of being a pain in the ass to her mom.
Margaret: What did you guys think of her therapist?
Lori F.: Well, I loved the casting of Bob Balaban.
Emma: Me too. Adore him.
Lori L.: That was genius.
Margaret: Has he played a shrink before? He's very good at it.
Lori L.: I feel like he has.
Emma: If he hadn't, he should again. It worked.
Margaret: It was so brilliant that the psychologist she's landed with is a mega bestselling author. How HELPFUL.
Emma: So do we think that she's going to continue seeing her therapist?
Lori F.: I hope so, for her sake and for ours.
Emma: She obviously needs to be in therapy. I felt so sad for her when she said "I will really do anything you say if you just tell my parents I'm OK."
Lori L.: I know. That was heartbreaking.
Margaret: She's making that request for her, right? Not for them? And if she is doing it for herself, is that because she wants her parents off her back or because telling her parents she's OK would in some way make her feel like she was OK?
Emma: Maybe both. Mostly for herself though. She's scared to deal with her issues -- which is a fairly natural response.
Lori F.: I took it as meaning that she didn't want to be there, not that she was trying to make them feel better. But now that you mention it, I like that it could go either way.
Margaret: She echoed her request to the shrink when she said to her dad in the subway, "I hate it when you look so concerned about me." That was even more heartbreaking to me.
Lori F.: Me too. All she wants is to feel normal and OK.
Emma: And who doesn't?
Lori F.: Right, and to have her parents concerned about her -- there's an outside party indicating to her that she's not OK. It's not just her own concern.
Margaret: I think right now her feeling safe is somewhat contingent on them thinking she's safe.
Emma: Should we move on to Adam?
"I WANTED THAT CHANCE TO SHOW SOMEONE EVERYTHING"
Margaret: Adam is also feeling less safe right now, too. How does he put it exactly?
Emma: He says he hasn't felt "as solid" lately. So he goes to an AA meeting. We already knew Adam was in AA, but it was great to see him in that setting. It also shows his maturity, especially compared to Hannah. Whereas Hannah needs to be PUSHED into therapy, he takes his well-being really seriously and knows how to help himself.
Lori F.: Right, I think he learned some of that through AA. When to reach out, how to cope with rough times, etc.
Lori L.: I thought his speech was vulnerable and honest and mature and wonderfully articulate. Even though he's a mess in some ways, he's actually taken control of his addiction.
Margaret: I think of all of the characters, Adam has the most accurate take on relationships and how to live honestly.
Emma: And he is very self-aware about his relationship with Hannah.
Lori F.: "It started to feel better when she was there. It wasn't love the way I imagined it. I just felt weird if I didn't know what she was up to or whatever."
Margaret: "I liked knowing that she was gonna be there and warm and staying the night."
Emma: I appreciated the way he described feeling "exhausted" by their relationship. It's a really accurate way to describe how you feel after being put through the relationship wringer.
Lori F.: And that he liked being able to teach her things. It all felt very real.
Margaret: I also like that he was honest about not liking her at first. Most people don't describe relationships as they really go because we rely on the fantasy version of them. It's like we need to believe the fantasy kind exists, and it almost never works that way.
Lori F.: That's true. After a breakup, you often forget the bad stuff and mourn the loss of the good.
Emma: You also settle on a narrative. You position yourself and the other person as characters and give the whole thing some sort of arc.
Lori F.: And he seems very aware of the progression -- the bad and the good.
Emma: Adam just seems to reflect the truth of his relationship. Which is a really tough thing to do.
Emma: Also, it's great how he sums up his monologue with an offer to bring cookies.
Lori F.: Yes! I was just typing that.
Margaret: "I don't really like cookies that much, so don't get mad at me if I bring the wrong shit."
Emma: Perfect Adam moment.
Margaret: I want to talk about how he loved teaching Hannah things. "I wanted that chance to show someone everything." I couldn't tell from that line whether he was saying he'd enjoyed his power and authority in that dynamic or if it was more innocent -- he liked showing her new things.
Emma: Probably both. He felt needed.
Margaret: It reminded me of Adam and Ray's discussion about the in-betweens and how he thinks young girls are preferable because they're vulnerable. I can also see Adam liking being in that position of power.
Emma: It made him feel useful and important. There's something really incredible about feeling like you have the power to enlighten someone else about something.
Lori F.: I didn't get that while watching it, but now that you bring it up, it is interesting that he doesn't mention learning anything from her. But I saw it as sweet too. I think it had to do with wanting to be understood and wanting to share things with her.
Margaret: Right. I can see Adam enjoying showing her things the way it's fun to watch a movie you've seen with someone who hasn't seen it to see them enjoy the excitement of seeing it for the first time.
Emma: I agree with you, Margaret. I think his comment was a mix of both things.
"I THOUGHT THIS WAS GONNA SUCK ASS"
Margaret: So Adam's hot date. First of all, Carol Kane was amazing as her mother.
Emma: She was hilarious. "Oh my god's teeth! You are tall." Adam seemed more normal talking to the mom than I've ever seen him. And he was so smiley! He rarely smiles.
Lori F.: He seemed so uncomfortable too. I feel like he hasn't had much actual dating experience. And when he called to ask her out, it continued. He was so awkward on the phone -- and so aware of his awkwardness.
Emma: "You'll know me. I'm very tall and semi-dashing." It was nice to see Adam get a little bit socially awkward. Totally endearing.
Margaret: I agree with Emma -- I thought it was cute and refreshing. He was a normal nervous awkward guy. I mean, one who puts his head through random ladder steps while calling a girl, but normalish.
Emma: Of course Adam has a ladder in his living room, for no clear reason.
Lori F.: I want more Adam backsatory, just as I want more Ray backstory. We know his grandma sends him money and he was in AA. But more please!
Emma: I get the feeling that we'll be getting more Adam insight in this season and next.
Margaret: I want a whole Adam episode. What did we think of Natalia?
Emma: AKA Shiri Appleby.
Lori L.: I was just very charmed and intrigued by him this episode, which is a new feeling for me.
Margaret: For me too, although I liked him in the episode with Ray too.
Emma: Same. He was very endearing on his date.
Lori F.: I like how he managed to see more mature and likable but retain his essential Adam-ness throughout. "Holy shit!" "Oh my god I love my mom" has to be the best date greeting ever. And when he said, "I thought this was gonna suck ass" -- so Adam.
Emma: Shiri Appleby is also consistently charming. So she was a good choice to put across rom Adam's weirdness. I was also happy when she said, "I think dating is awful," perhaps echoing the thoughts of 90 percent of New York women.
Margaret: The private-eye-decoy thing was a little much, I thought, although something Adam would think was the BEST THING EVER.
Lori L.: Exactly! I thought the PI thing was ridiculous
Emma: Yeah, Adam would definitely be impressed by someone with a weird job like "private eye assistant." But it was totally ridiculous.
Lori F.: It will be interesting to see where this goes. There's obvious initial attraction, but how long till Adam's rage issues pop up? Or he becomes too attached?
Lori L.: Or just too weird for her?
Lori F.: Right, weird can be interesting at first and then just ... weird. But I want to see more of this, so I hope it lasts for a bit.
Emma: Me too. It's good for Adam to be seeing someone else.
Margaret: We know almost nothing about Adam when he's not with Hannah. I want to see him operate without her for as long as possible.
Margaret: Meanwhile, in Washington Square Park...
"YOU'RE VERY GOOD-LOOKING FOR A DOORMAN"
Emma: Obviously Shosh is wondering about Jessa. "Oh my god, is she warm enough?
Lori L.: WHAT is she wearing?
Margaret: "Is it linen?"
Emma: Side note: Shosh has the BEST braids. I aspire to have her hair skills.
Margaret: See, I was not into the party braid, but I'm jumping ahead.
Emma: Oh, I'm referring to the campus braids.
Lori L.: I loved the party braid -- for Shosh.
Margaret: The top of it reminded me of a flower bulb. Do we think Ray is right that Jessa is better off than all of them?
Lori L.: What do you think he meant?
Margaret: I couldn't tell if it was material -- she's obviously gotten herself invited to a palace somewhere where she's surviving on sex and champagne -- or existential. His hustler comment makes me think the former, even though almost everything is existential for Ray.
Emma: I think that comment was more of a reflection of his own self-loathing than actual truth. Jessa is in a pretty rough place right now.
Margaret: Marnie evidently hasn't changed her mind about Jessa since season 1.
Emma: But Shosh and Ray seem to be changing their minds about each other. We see more tears in Shosh and Ray's relationship when they're walking across campus.
Margaret: Shosh's line, "My worst nightmare is that someone thinks I've died and I haven't," stood out for me. Deb Schoeneman, who co-wrote this episode, told me this week that an old thing in TV writing is that the characters should be so distinct from one another that the audience should be able to read any line from the script out of context and know who says it. For this line, I would have guessed Hannah. I wouldn't think of Shosh as someone terrified of being invisible.
Lori L.: Really? I think that's so Shosh!
Lori F.: I agree with you, Margaret.
Lori L.: It's so neurotic.
Margaret: But it's also so, "Look at me."
Lori F.: The conversation about the air quotes was 100 percent Ray.
Margaret: That exchange was so telling.
Emma: The age difference really matters here.
Margaret: Being a condescending jerk also matters here. "Using pantomime to express your emotions is a crutch. We've talked about that."
Emma: Another indication that Ray feels like Shosh's father, like he said in the Staten Island episode.
Margaret: When he says, "I don't even know where to begin explaining this to you," it's obvious he doesn't appreciate teaching Shosh the way Adam appreciated teaching Hannah.
Lori L.: Good point.
Emma: I think Ray just wishes Shosh understood things that she doesn't.
Emma: And Shosh wishes Ray appreciated things that he doesn't.
Lori L.: And was more mature. But I did appreciate Ray's resistance about going to a college party. "Not even seniors should go to college parties."
Margaret: Well, that's a basic truth.
Lori F.: I don't blame him for not wanting to go, but if you have a college girlfriend, sometimes you're going to have to do these things if she's excited about them.
Emma: He's totally out of place in her undergrad, 21-year-old world, but Shosh SHOULD be going to parties with her college friends. Not just going on taco dates with a 33-year-old. She's still in college!
Margaret: I think Shosh and Ray are going to be over soon.
Emma: Definitely.
Margaret: I just hope Ray sticks around anyway.
Emma: I think he will. Adam didn't disappear when Hannah broke up with him.
Margaret: So Shosh goes to the party in question, with the bulbous braid.
Lori F.: That braid was extreme, even for her.
Emma: It was, but if anyone would/could pull that off, it would be Shosh. And her red dress was -- to use a Shosh phrase -- adorbs.
Lori L.: Loved the red dress. So, the doorman?
Lori F.: So he obviously checked her out before she went in.
Margaret: And by obvious you mean leaned over the desk.
Lori F.: Yes, that is what I mean.
Emma: I mean... Shosh is hot!
Margaret: So we knew that was going to happen.
Lori L.: Of course.
Margaret: Side note: I enjoyed Radhika yelling, "I told you not to ash in my mermaid." Even if you only stay for 15 minutes, it was worth showing up at the party just for that.
Lori F.: And we learn during that time that she's feeling claustrophobic with Ray.
Margaret: So worth it all around.
Margaret: I loved when Shosh agreed with the doorman that he'd definitely probably seen her at the club.
Lori L.: Hahaha.
Margaret: There is nowhere he was less likely to see her. He was so far off the mark.
Emma: She didn't want to be herself. She was the clubbing, hot girl with a Muslim name.
Lori L.: "Is that Muslim?" "Sort of."
Margaret: So great.
Emma: So was Shosh saying that he's "very good-looking for a doorman."
Lori L.: Let's talk about why Shosh hooked up with the doorman.
Emma: I think she's starting to feel trapped in her relationship with Ray. At first she was trying new things -- finding love, sex, living with a man. But now they've stagnated a bit. And she feels like she's missed out.
Margaret: In other words, she wants to feel 21 for a minute.
Lori F.: That scene made me sad though.
Emma: It made me sad too. We know that hooking up with a doorman who doesn't know her real name probably won't really fill the voids that she's feeling.
Lori L.: He looked like a god-awful kisser.
Margaret: Agree.
Lori F.: It's clear that she's feeling like she needs space and Ray isn't living up to her hopes, but he's going to be so hurt. And she's going to feel so bad.
Margaret: The whole time I thought about how guilty she'll feel about this.
Lori F.: The cut between Shosh with the doorman and Ray reading at home...
Emma: That was heartbreaking.
Lori F.: Do we think she just made out with him? Still not OK, but I'm curious...
Lori L.: Yes, I think it was just kissing.
Emma: Me too. It didn't feel like a sex-in-the-closet scene.
Lori F.: OK, I thought so too, but just wanted to get your thoughts.
Margaret: Back to Marnie?
FORBID
Margaret: So Marnie learns that Charlie developed and sold an app.
Emma: And she feels immediately inadequate.
Margaret: I relate to her reaction so much. For me there was a point in my early 20s when everyone's accomplishments made me want to cry. Every time I read someone's byline or someone landed a great job. It wasn't that I begrudged them their success -- it was just further confirmation of my own failure.
Lori F.: But it's more than that -- she dismissed him because she thought he was "a sad mess" as she says later. Now she suddenly sees him in a different light.
Emma: I think she enjoyed seeing herself as more together than him.
Margaret: Until this happened. I think Marnie's also confronting what feels like the grave, grave injustice of having been a striver and seeing people who weren't such strivers early on sprint ahead of you.
Emma: Exactly. She feels so frustrated at the world because she did "everything right." I can definitely see how she would feel like this is all very unfair. Because ... life is unfair.
Lori F.: I want to note that Marnie said Hannah has been busy with her book -- defending her rather than calling her selfish as she has in the past.
Margaret: I appreciated that. It reminded me of the dinner party when Hannah was terrible to Marnie to her face but defended her to Charlie.
Lori L.: I didn't dig Marnie's ponytails, BTW.
Margaret: Me either!
Emma: I think she was supposed to look disheveled. Those pigtails felt very intentional.
Lori L.: She was going for the messy natural look, but you know she spent a lot of time making them look messy.
Emma: She's just off her game.
Margaret: I think the goal was more than disheveled. I think she was supposed to look young and naive and weak.
Lori F.: Also, Marnie is the worst at being fake-casual.
Margaret: The worst!
Lori L.: I thought it was really unrealistic that she would wander over to Charlie's office looking that way.
Margaret: I found it realistic that she'd go to the office, but I thought she'd get dolled up first. Remember how dressed up she got in Season 1 when she went to win Charlie back?
Lori L.: After finding out that he had struck app gold and had his own office, you would think she'd spend a lot of time prepping for that visit. And yes, getting dolled up.
Margaret: It would have made more sense if she'd shown up wearing the exact same thing hot employee girl was wearing. And looking uptight in it.
Emma: Also, you don't just sneak into someone's office.
Lori L.: Right -- so silly. And things just got worse when she went to Charlie's office.
Margaret: Much, much worse.
Lori F.: She's so transparent.
Emma: That entire thing was cringe-worthy. I just wanted to yell "stop, Marnie, stop! leave!"
Lori F.: It was awful. She was so out of place, and Charlie isn't dumb.
Margaret: He was also reveling in their changed circumstances a bit, I think.
Emma: He calls her out! "You seem kind of all over the place." Then he asks whether she needs money ... ouch.
Lori F.: And when she says she's there for support and he asks, "From me or for me?"
Emma: That was a perfect line. Charlie had his ultimate revenge. His success was born out of their breakup.
Lori F.: And clearly he's done just fine without her support.
Margaret: Is his app based on a real app?
Emma: There must be something similar, right?
Lori F.: It was also perfect that he had to stop their conversation to go do a lip dub for YouTube
Margaret: Perfect.
Emma: His office was a great parody of the hip, startup world.
Emma: Lots of successful white kids in glasses singing "The Dougie."
Margaret: It was way too hip and polished, and so was he.
Emma: Yeah... no more overly bearded Charlie.
Margaret: Do we think Lena was a little heavy-handed with the Commentary on The Culture here? "People are really responding to software that protects them from themselves. Or other people."
Lori F.: That line didn't jump out at me, so I guess it didn't feel that way to me. Also, I feel like Charlie might actually talk that way in his situation. Like he's used it in pitch meetings or something.
Emma: Yeah, I think my mind glossed over that exchange. Didn't stand out to me either way.
Lori F.: So should we discuss Marnie's dream? And Ray's advice?
WISHFUL BUDGETING
Emma: Ray was so hostile toward Marnie last season. It's nice to see them have some friendlier exchanges, even ... dare I say ... a sort of bond? Ray was really insightful.
Lori F.: What was interesting to me is how insightful Ray can be about OTHER PEOPLE'S lives and career paths, but he doesn't seem to take the same advice for himself.
Margaret: It was interesting to me that he was so insightful about Marnie but not about Shosh. "She's out partying." That doesn't seem out of the ordinary to you, Ray? Then again, lots of people are insightful about everyone but themselves and their relationships.
Lori F.: Right, I don't think it's unusual -- just interesting given that we've seen no ambition from him and he's so jaded and yet he has advice about following your dreams. Ray doesn't seem like a follow-your-dreams kind of guy.
Margaret: Maybe this is coming out of his own sense of regret.
Lori F.: Yeah, it might -- if he couldn't do something, he doesn't want others to make the same mistake?
Emma: I liked that Ray called Marnie on her angry moping. He recognizes that Marnie is jealous, but it must be painful for him to see her whining and not doing anything about it. He sees Marnie as someone who has all the time in the world.
Margaret: Well, not really. He tells her she's never going to look this good again.
Lori L.: One of my favorite lines ever was Ray saying to Marnie, "You will not be able to dress like a magician's assistant."
Margaret: I loved that so much.
Emma: So not all the time in the world. But a lot more time than him.
Lori F.: Marnie really budgeted in six years for Charlie to be broken? SIX YEARS?
Margaret: I think that was wishful budgeting.
Emma: Yeah ... just a bit.
Lori F.: Charlie and Audrey aren't going to end up together, but it's not as if he's staying in his room crying over Marnie. He's not the total sad mess she's made him out to be in his head. He's an attractive guy who is continuing on with life without her as his girlfriend.
Emma: That's the thing about breaking up with someone. You don't get to dictate how they recover.
Margaret: And they could live happily ever after without you, and you could live not so happily without them. There's a sense of a winner and a loser (loser in both senses of the word).
Emma: And I think that Charlie's career success bothers Marnie even more than his new girlfriend. She's actively jealous of Charlie's success. That's the life SHE was supposed to have after she broke up with him.
Margaret: And she doesn't have that life as a result of her confusion but also a lack of confidence and fear of taking a risk. How does the good girl dare to think she can do something crazy and all her own and be successful at it?
Emma: And with singing there's a far greater chance of failure than most other career paths. I was glad we got to hear Allison Williams sing, though. She's so good!
Lori F.: Yes, so good that Ray had to tell her to stop. "It's getting a little too intimate for me."
Margaret: (Well, that was also about the song she chose.)
Lori F.: (True.)
Margaret: This too felt out of nowhere for me. Why hasn't she talked about singing before?
Emma: Yeah, I agree it was a bit out of the blue.
Lori F.: We know she was in a play with Elijah, but I agree -- I had no idea she could sing or had any interest in it.
Emma: I think they just knew Allison could sing so they settled on that.
Lori F.: Does this mean we're going to see Marnie going to open-mike nights?
Emma: I hope so!
Margaret: I wondered about that.
Lori F.: Was she good when she did karaoke with Elijah? I don't remember except that he told her not to harmonize. And, yes, I realize it's karaoke.
Emma: I think she was? But also, they were both very drunk.
Margaret: I was not focused on the music in that scene.
Lori F.: I wasn't either, but I am just looking for clues now.
Margaret: So will Jessa be back next week?
Lori F.: My gut feeling is no.
Emma: Do you think they'll wait until the last episode of the season to bring her back? I hope not, but they could.
Lori F.: Perhaps. Also, I think next week will have to deal with Ray and Shosh a lot. I mean, that's the real cliffhanger.
Margaret: I think you're right.
Emma: I sense a breakup next week.
Margaret: In the meantime, I suspect Jessa really is warm enough. And possibly wearing linen.
Lori F.: The End.
Read HuffPost Women's Previous "Girls" Gchats:
SEASON 2
Episode 7: Where Jessas Come From
Episode 6: "Like A Man"
Episode 5: "I Want All The Things"
Episode 4: "We're Adults Here"
Episode 3: Where the Magic Happens
Episode 2: Sad Little Glowworm
Episode 1: "Are We Okay?"
SEASON 1
Episode 10: Surprise!
Episode 9: You Are The Wound
Episode 8: Pissed And Sad
Episode 7: The Best Party Ever
Episode 6: You Can Always Go Home Again
Episode 5: "Are You F-ing Kidding Me?"
Episode 3: Are We Hearing Ourselves?
Episode 2: Self-Sabotage Hurts The Way It's Supposed To
Episode 1: Unimpressed -- When We Were Cheering
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