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Marian Wright Edelman

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Without a Gun, How Many Lives Would Have Been Saved?

Posted: 08/24/2012 11:01 am

When news broke of the murders at the Sikh Temple of Wisconsin on August 5th, people of all faiths and backgrounds and the first responders who came to the scene to help were horrified by the ambush on men and women as they prepared for worship services. Leaders across the country quickly denounced the hate crime and the FBI immediately began investigating the attack as a possible case of domestic terrorism. But as easy as it was for all of us to be outraged by another senseless attack and heartbroken by the congregation’s stories, it was difficult to be surprised by how it took place again in a nation unwilling to curb guns designed just to kill lots of people in the hands of lawless people. Would this have happened without a semi-automatic gun and high-capacity clips of bullets?

The shootings at the Sikh Temple of Wisconsin came only two weeks after James Holmes allegedly killed 12 people and injured 58 others at a movie theater in Aurora, Colorado, in one of the worst mass shootings in American history. Would this have happened without an AR-15 assault rifle, a Remington 870 12-gauge shot gun, and a semi-automatic handgun with high-capacity clips of bullets? After the Aurora massacre, the Denver Post published an interactive timeline listing some of the others:

August 1966, University of Texas at Austin, Texas: 16 people killed, 31 hurt. July 1985, a McDonald’s restaurant in San Ysidro, California: 21 people killed, 19 hurt. October 1991, a Luby’s Cafeteria in Killeen, Texas: 23 people killed, 22 hurt. May 1998, the community of Springfield, Oregon: four people killed, 21 hurt. April 1999, Columbine High School, Colorado: 13 people killed, 26 hurt. April 2007, Virginia Tech University, Virginia: 32 people killed, 27 hurt. February 2008, Northern Illinois University, Illinois: five people killed, 16 hurt. March 2009, Coffee and Geneva counties in Alabama: 10 people killed, six hurt. April 2009, a community center in Binghamton, New York: 13 people killed, four hurt. November 2009, Fort Hood, Texas: 13 people killed, 24 hurt. Other shootings, like the January 2011 shooting in Tucson, Arizona that killed six people and injured 13, including U.S. Representative Gabrielle Giffords, could be added to this list. Would any of this devastation have happened without semi-automatic guns and high capacity clips of bullets?

Every time another mass shooting happens in the United States, the debate over gun control comes fleetingly to the forefront -- until political fear paralyzes courage and action. Inevitably, some people repeat the argument that the solution to preventing mass shootings is not better gun control laws -- even control of assault weapons, which have no place in nonmilitary hands -- but getting even more Americans armed. The apparent fantasy result would be something straight out of Hollywood where every single time a bad person stands up with a gun a good person with their own gun would quickly rise up out of the crowd, shoot the bad person, and save the day.

But arguments like this ignore both common sense and scientific evidence about the connection between the ready availability of guns -- including assault weapons and guns with large ammunition capacity -- and the epidemic of gun violence in America. Daniel W. Webster, professor and co-director of the Center for Gun Policy and Research at Johns Hopkins School of Public Health and a panelist at the Children’s Defense Fund’s recent conference, wrote after the Aurora shootings:

We should not brush aside discussions of gun policy as too politically difficult to expect meaningful change, or "the price for our freedoms." Instead, we should reflect on why the U.S. has a murder rate that is nearly seven times higher than the average murder rate in other high-income countries and a nearly 20 times higher murder rate with guns. And we should consider how flaws in current gun policies contribute to this disparity... Following mass shootings, gun control opponents have not been bashful about pushing for laws to remove restrictions on carrying guns in schools, bars and churches. Indeed, calls for removing restrictions on carrying concealed firearms will not stop mass shootings. Research indicates that so-called right-to-carry laws don’t reduce violence, and may increase aggravated assaults. But studies I have conducted indicate that stricter regulations of gun sales, whether by retail dealers or by private sellers, are associated with fewer guns diverted to criminals. Moreover, national surveys show that a large majority of citizens favor these reforms to our gun laws, including most gun owners.

It is way past time for common-sense gun law reform in America. Many of the victims of mass shootings have been strangers -- sometimes children -- who were personally unknown to the shooters but were simply in “the wrong place at the wrong time,” even if the “wrong place” turned out to be going to class, attending a worship service on a Sunday morning, or going to the local movie theater on a summer evening. In other words, they could have been any one of us.

What will it take for us to do something about it?

 

Follow Marian Wright Edelman on Twitter: www.twitter.com/ChildDefender

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When news broke of the murders at the Sikh Temple of Wisconsin on August 5th, people of all faiths and backgrounds and the first responders who came to the scene to help were horrified by the ambush o...
When news broke of the murders at the Sikh Temple of Wisconsin on August 5th, people of all faiths and backgrounds and the first responders who came to the scene to help were horrified by the ambush o...
 
 
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05:57 PM on 09/10/2012
Hollywood n computer games should be banned also as they r tools teaching our population violence. Alcohol should also be banned along with serotonin manipulating feel good drugs. The media should also be banned as they r just as guilty as the guns
01:02 PM on 08/30/2012
Another anti "gun" person who does not know the difference between a clip and a magazine. She also doesn't mention that almost all of these places were gun free locations. She also doesn't mention the approximately 2.5 million times a year that "guns" are used to prevent crimes. She also doesn't mention that the states that have CCW permits for their law abiding citizens have had the crime rates plummet. I do agree that there need to be more common sense laws, just not the ones she wants.
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SchumannFu
If you ever Google Gary Oldman, DON'T forget the R
05:28 PM on 08/28/2012
The war on drugs...
Now this is one of the issues that I'm passionate about, and want to debate when I come on Huffington Post. I don't want to be sidetracked by gun banners and feel the need to defend a guaranteed right. I want to discuss issues that really matter. Like ending the drug war, safe access for medical marijuana patients, social equality for women and gays, ending voter suppression, keeping religion and corporate money out of politics, ending childhood poverty, universal healthcare, putting violent criminals in prison for much longer sentences, energy independence, pollution, global warming, the pile of garbage three times the size of Texas floating in the ocean, overfishing of the oceans, killing whales and dolphins and gorillas and all other endangered species, ending our oligarchy, our pathetic congress, racism, cutting back on the military, ending our war culture and empire, diabetes cancer aids etc, educational inequality, excessive tuition cost, homelessness, monopolies, gigantic banks and their fraud, government waste, nuclear warheads, ending the death penalty, ending for profit prisons, police brutality, and a few other things.
But gun ownership is a right guaranteed by the constitution and until it isn't, it really isn't up for debate. If you don't like it, change the constitution. If that works, I will get started on an amendment outlawing cars.
09:40 AM on 09/11/2012
Nice!
12:47 AM on 08/28/2012
Where is it that professor Webster got his facts? Just because he is a professor does not make his statement a fact. According to the FBI statistics he is wrong in all cities and states that have conceal carry and easy fire arms laws crime is down in cities and states with tough fire arms laws crimes with fire arms are higher. Look at Chicago case in point. You will never stop the crazy people why don’t we make crazy people illegal? Why should the many be punished for the crimes of the few? Or is it just easier to do away with the constitution? To quote Jefferson “The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it away.”
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09:49 PM on 08/27/2012
Marian Wright Edelman, I just read your article, do me a favor in your next article, just start out by saying that you know NOTHING about the subject your writing about. That way it will save me the time reading such dribble.

The scariest thing in that arcticle is that your the president of some childs defense thing.
07:44 PM on 08/27/2012
Can you say NRA? The NRA's power over politicians through its massive campaign donations is what stands between the status quo defended by the Second Amendment nuts (see their comments to this column) and a more logical and rationale approach. Can anyone justify the fact that the U.S. is the only developed country that has such idiotic gun laws?
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12:16 AM on 08/29/2012
Wrong. 65 million law abiding gun owners have considerably more impact on politicians of both parties.
06:43 PM on 08/27/2012
**Marian Wright Edelman: Without a Gun, How Many Lives Would Have Been Saved?**
Uh... I don't know Marian... but why not ask your buddies over there on the South side of Chicago?
05:36 PM on 08/27/2012
By allowing law abiding citizens to carry a weapon legally, we are providing HOPE. Yes, the fantasy you described might never be reality. If no one is ever allowed to carry a weapon except the bad guy, there is no HOPE that a good guy will pop up and maybe stop the bad guy from killing a few more people. No, high powered assault weapon should NOT be on the streets. Do you even know what a semi automatic weapon is? It's nothing like a fully automatic, clearly what you are thinking about when writing this. Would you rather drive a rust bucket that only goes 15mph on the highway or something that does at least the speed limit??? Not sure about you but if someone broke into my home and was raping my daughters I do NOT want to fumble with firing off one shot and then recocking and reloading... I am not sure about the rest of America, but where I come from the good guys can't buy the big guns so they do not own them. The bad guys can buy one on the corner for $20, everyone of them has one available to them. The thing here is that some of us are willing to help keep America safe. The bad guys are WINNING. By tightening up gun control, you are just giving up. Nah, let the bad guys take over... We can all just pack up and move to another country.
08:22 PM on 08/27/2012
Packing up to another country where the amount of death by fire arms is 20 time less...
If you tightened the gun law there is less guns to deal with. By doing so, you create a place where, unless you are a member of the military, police or security industry, if you have a gun you are a bad guy.
If someone is raping your daughter I would think that a machine gun would kill the assailant WITH your daughter.
A teacher in CA couldn't buy gun in time to kill people after going insane from the suicide of his son. He had to resolve to "just" set the school on fire and some buildings. Gun control worked, no one died even though he was determined to make the world pay for his loss, by killing others.
You think that a "good guy " with a gun could have shot the insane person wearing the full body armor in the darkness of a theater? WIth the gaz released, the panicked crowd running in all direction do you think that, death from friendly fire just like in NYC ( Professionals with training couldn't control ricochets hitting the bystanders) would have been a good idea?
12:09 AM on 08/28/2012
YES!!!!! So your answer is to punish the many for the crimes of the few?
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Molon Labe762
Sic Semper Tyrannis
03:43 PM on 08/28/2012
he wasnt armored, he had a tac vest, not like youd know the difference..
05:09 PM on 08/27/2012
Thank you Marian for bringing the gun issue forward, which always creates discussion and will for years to come. For many it is a frustrating subject as there is a helplessness about the situation where past and present lobbyest have kept the gun manufacturers in business by persuading poiticians to permit the sale of guns to the general public. It would be a hopeless situation to try to take guns out of circulation. But the fact remains that if the USA had the same gun rules as many other western countries that tens of thousands of Americans would have lived a longer life. It's just too easy to kill with a gun and that's a fact!
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10:11 PM on 08/27/2012
"tens of thousands of Americans would have lived a longer life"

And without the civilian population having the access to firearms Millions would have been killed annually. Also, why would Americans want to be like other western countries?

As for your " It's just too easy to kill with a gun and that's a fact!" your wrong. Guns are loud. There are much easier ways to kill people, just ask any Doctor, they've killed more people in error the guns ever have. Imagine what they could do on purpose! (food for thought)
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Molon Labe762
Sic Semper Tyrannis
03:53 PM on 08/28/2012
if you dont like america, leave, its that simple dude.. as gun owners we are not going to compromise on this issue
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niweldit6
04:25 PM on 08/27/2012
People of good will - store up your weapons and ammunition in grease and hide them. You descendents will need them.
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MadAs
Tuned-in science editor
08:27 PM on 08/27/2012
Sorry niweld, you probably haven't heard about global warming. You might check it out. Your descendants don't have to worry about guns and ammo. What you might do better worrying about is "What descendants"?

Your forbidden fruit in the garden there isn't guns in grease, but rather ignorance and apathy.
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Molon Labe762
Sic Semper Tyrannis
03:53 PM on 08/28/2012
global warming is a fraud, this was exposed at climategate 2010.. look it up
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frankenputer
Old Fashioned Liberal Democrat.
03:36 PM on 08/27/2012
Ms Edelman,

Your premise here shows faulty reasoning and a willingness to express opinion as fact.

You seem to want to believe that these weapons jumped off the shelf and committed mayhem on their own. In fact, a human being had to plan choose and use these weapons. You of course will believe that if the weapons were not available, these tragedies would not happen. The facts disagree with you.

No firearms are needed for unbalanced individuals to commit mass murder. Any Human with a High School education has the knowledge needed to commit such atrocities, Without a firearm.

As for your statement that “Most” gun owners support the ridiculous level of gun control that you do is easily proven fallacious. If you would have done some homework you would have saved yourself the embarrasment of this article.

James
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MadAs
Tuned-in science editor
08:43 PM on 08/27/2012
James,
I've been a gun owner for years, and I find your platitudinous arguments as fully bogus as the arguments that crime will stop if we outlaw guns. It is obvious that guns are a huge problem in the USA.

We need a serious and thoughtful nationwide discussion, and your participation as a listener-only might be okay.
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frankenputer
Old Fashioned Liberal Democrat.
12:40 AM on 08/28/2012
I have checked your comment history. I have determined that we have nothing to discuss.  Nice try though "platitudinous" is a big word, but ever so rarely used with "Bogus".  Just saying.Have a nice life.
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Molon Labe762
Sic Semper Tyrannis
03:55 PM on 08/28/2012
as a gun owner, i dont want compromising little apologists representing me
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Colorado Hunter
Now a Idaho Hunter
03:22 PM on 08/27/2012
What common-sense gun law would a crminal abide by?
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Chris in Colorado
04:13 PM on 08/27/2012
So your argument is "people will break the law anyway so let's not even worry about it."
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Colorado Hunter
Now a Idaho Hunter
05:11 PM on 08/27/2012
Not true, What law would a crminal abide by that would not impact the law abiding citizen?
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Jerry Bourbon
06:55 PM on 08/27/2012
His argument is that laws that are absolutely unenforceable are stupid.

But he could be wrong. Let's compromise! As soon as we "win" the war on drugs, we can ban guns and start a new "war" on guns.
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MadAs
Tuned-in science editor
08:51 PM on 08/27/2012
So Colorado, if gun possession was outlawed - criminalized - throughout the US (which I believe includes CO), I'm sure we could count on you to ante up your weapons. Right?

No? Soo, that makes you a would-be criminal then???
03:10 PM on 08/27/2012
An better question to ask would be, 'How many lives would be saved if concealed weapons was the law of the land?' Face facts. We are never going to eliminate guns among our citizens, so it's time to face the real fact that guns do NOT kill people. People kill people. That's a fact. Now do something about our people problem if you really wish to solve our murder rate problem, so people don't kill people. Stop blaming guns for doing something they do not do!
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MadAs
Tuned-in science editor
09:26 PM on 08/27/2012
So people with guns kill people (wow, never heard that before). Whoa. Gotya. So then like people with cars kill people. And like people with drugs kill people.

So let's forget about safety standards to beef-up car safety -- that won't do no good. And forget the war against drugs and make that the war against people.
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SchumannFu
If you ever Google Gary Oldman, DON'T forget the R
02:38 AM on 08/29/2012
You were holding your own for a while there, I gotta give you that.

People with cars kill people yes, lots more people than are killed with guns (excluding suicide, it's more than three times as many).

Beef up car safety absolutely. It won't save the people killed outside of the car, but yes, by all means let's make it better.
The war on drugs has to go. It is already a war on people, and civil rights, and liberty.
02:53 PM on 08/27/2012
A week after the 2nd amendment is gone, so will the right of free speech, assembly, who can vote, and the rest of our rights. A gov. that FEARS the people is what we want and need---- NOT a GOV that people FEAR
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10:18 PM on 08/27/2012
I agree, or as Thomas Jefferson said "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not."
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SchumannFu
If you ever Google Gary Oldman, DON'T forget the R
01:51 AM on 08/28/2012
Not a week certainly, but within several generations it is absolutely possible our society could resemble the America in The Handmaids Tale.
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celticmaiden7475
02:46 PM on 08/27/2012
I don't understand why when the term gun control comes up so many people assume it means all guns are illegal. It ends up ending the discussion but way can we not have a real national discussion on how to keep guns out of the hands of those who should not have them.
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Dimensio
I just don't know what went wrong!
03:43 PM on 08/27/2012
Unfortunately, the most prominent and vocal firearm restriction advocacy organizations do in fact advocate unreasonable measures, such as prohibiting ownership of a subset of a rarely misused class of firearms (used in homicides less frequently than unarmed attacks) due entirely to cosmetic attachments and ergonomic design.  As such, advocates of civilian firearm ownership rights are, by reflex, defensive and antagonistic toward any proposed firearms regulation measure, even if the measure may be reasonable.
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SchumannFu
If you ever Google Gary Oldman, DON'T forget the R
02:09 AM on 08/28/2012
And when the proposals are reasonable, they tend to come from the gun owners. Like the national instant background checks. The gun banners put forth the so called "assault weapons ban" that managed to ban not a single assault weapon, or any feature that was more than cosmetic, and didn't make the slightest dent in gun violence.
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Colorado Hunter
Now a Idaho Hunter
04:01 PM on 08/27/2012
And what "new gun law" would prevent somebody from commiting murder?