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Marianne Mollmann

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Gay Marriage: The Issue Is Respect

Posted: 06/26/11 03:34 PM ET

Earlier this year, a student in a human rights seminar I was teaching declared her conviction that gay parents damage their children by virtue of being gay. I explained as gently as I could why this is a discriminatory notion, incompatible with human rights standards, and moved on. My student sat as if stunned for two minutes, then gathered her books and left the class.

She later confronted me outside the classroom, and I was astonished to see just how fervently she insisted that her opinion was both based on science and respectful of rights. Neither is true. As New York State joins the ranks of countries and other jurisdictions recognizing same-sex marriage, it's worth reflecting on rights and respect.

The fact is that thousands of human beings are subjected to violence across they globe simply because they are suspected of being gay. In Brazil alone, over 2,500 men were murdered between 1997 and 2007, ostensibly for being gay. In the United States, the It Gets Better Project has highlighted the sustained violence and bullying young people suffer just because they aren't straight. This month, the United Nations Human Rights Council for the first time condemned violence and other human rights violations based on a person's sexual orientation or identity.

Of course, those who oppose same-sex marriage in New York State and elsewhere are not saying they support violence against LGBTQ people. Nevertheless, the same basic proposition lies at the root of both: the notion that you are somehow a different -- lesser -- type of human being if you are not, or are not seen to be, straight, and that society is justified in rejecting you.

For too many people it is only a short leap from seeing homosexuality as offensive to justifying physical harm. In this way, for example, the ban on inter-racial marriage in this country coexisted with societal acceptance of violence against people of color. Many times, inter-racial couples suffered violence precisely because they dared to break the ban.

But perhaps the deepest-held notion is the one that was expressed so vehemently by my student: that all children brought up by LGBTQ persons are psychologically damaged. Fortunately, it is increasingly recognized that it is not exposure to diversity but rather to bigotry and prejudice that is damaging to kids. In 2008, the European Court on Human Rights held that France was not allowed to deny the adoption application of a women just because she was a lesbian. And in February, the High Court in the United Kingdom barred a couple from becoming foster parents because their anti-gay views were held to be potentially harmful to the children who would be in their care.

In fact, research shows that children with gay parents are just as likely to be well-adjusted as children with straight parents, and that the key to childhood adjustment is good relationships between parents and children and between the parents themselves.

Marriage, of course, does not guarantee good relationships. But where family leave and other benefits depend on marital status, children are disadvantaged if their parents are not allowed to marry. The vote in Albany this week is significant because it is another step toward guaranteeing children and adults the rights and respect they are entitled to.

 

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Earlier this year, a student in a human rights seminar I was teaching declared her conviction that gay parents damage their children by virtue of being gay. I explained as gently as I could why this i...
Earlier this year, a student in a human rights seminar I was teaching declared her conviction that gay parents damage their children by virtue of being gay. I explained as gently as I could why this i...
 
 
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and combat vet
02:52 PM on 06/27/2011
"the key to childhood adjustment is good relationships between parents and children and between the parents themselves"

100% spot on correct!
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marignymitch
E pluribus unum percent
02:22 PM on 06/27/2011
Nice thoughts, but I disagree. The issue is is about the law, which is on the side of equal rights for all Americans. I welcome the disrespect of all hateful christianists.
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Ioan Lightoller
Proud Married Gay Pagan Man
07:30 AM on 06/28/2011
Fanned and faved! I welcome it as well. Their contempt/disrespect for us is a badge of honour...at least it is for me.
01:52 PM on 06/27/2011
It started with Jerry Fallwell and the love the sinner not the sin. It was still being a bigot but being a bigot in a "nicer" way. Its like saying to an African American its not that I hate you because you are black, I just hate you because you are not white.

Luckily, public opinion is moving quickly in our favor and those that use gay hate to get votes will start to find less votes gotten from that strategy.
01:27 PM on 06/27/2011
The writer of this piece seems to have an odd view of children's rights. Denying a child a father or a mother is protecting a child's rights? And denying marriage will be a disadvantage to the children involved? Yes, yet would she endorse and promote polygamous, bigamous, and incestuous marriages because children are involved? And if moralizing causes hate and hate leads to violence, then is she not also guilty of hate-mongering since she herself is moralizing?

How about having human rights seminars that actually discuss human rights? Just a suggestion.
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LoyalBob
God is more vast than the Bible.
01:42 PM on 06/27/2011
Did we just read the same article? Because I saw nothing in there about polygamy, bigamy, or incest. Nor even inferred!

Basically you are saying that a household WITH a father and mother is superior to any other situation. There are far too many cases of abuse by two parent families to make such a declaration.

There are all kinds of families out there who provide love and guidance to children. To think that a heterosexual model is superior is denying evidence to the contrary.
02:17 PM on 06/27/2011
Jaycee Lee Dugard was abducted, kidnapped and repeatedly raped by two heterosexual people in a marriage....

See where I am going with this?
02:34 PM on 06/28/2011
Studies show that a child raised in a low-conflict home with the child's biological parents performs better in many categories.
12:26 PM on 06/27/2011
As I read my local Sunday paper I got to the section announcing engagements,marriages and anniversaries. There were 3 plus pages highlighting marriages of 50+ years. I wonder if in 50 to 60 years we will see announcements in the same magnitude for gay marriages?
01:59 PM on 06/27/2011
Why not? Many of the couples who are marrying in those places where it is now legal have been together for decades already. As to what will be evident in 50 to 60 years, my guess is that the numbers of long-standing marriages will be approximately among same sex couples and opposite couples who are otherwise similar demographically. (But this is just a guess as my crystal ball is in the shop for repairs.)
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and combat vet
02:43 PM on 06/27/2011
" I wonder if in 50 to 60 years we will see announceme­nts in the same magnitude for gay marriages? "

You will likely see them, but there will not be as many simply because gays and lesbians are a minority.
11:50 AM on 06/27/2011
Thanks for a great post Marianne. I really appreciate what you and the other good people at Human Rights Watch are doing to make the world a better place.

This is for all the remaining gay haters out there.

The Wall

Take down this wall
Stone by stone.
Unbuild the hatred
That scars you to the bone.
If you ain't got no love
I'll give you some on loan,
And together we'll make the world
A hate-free zone.
12:05 PM on 06/27/2011
Did you write that? Can I quote that? I love it!
12:46 PM on 06/27/2011
Yes I did; yes you can; and thank you. Just don't attribute it to The Friendly Atheist. Seems there's a few guys in the real world that use that handle and I wouldn't want to rain on their parade or ruffle their feathers. So just say it's by an anonymous author.
txkatie
Live today because tomorrow is not promised
07:53 AM on 06/28/2011
Your poem is great.
11:37 AM on 06/28/2011
Thank you for our kind words txkatie.
09:58 AM on 06/27/2011
Odd that the libs complain about a lack of public comment time on the Wisconsin union law, but gleefully embrace the 'emergency­' passage of the NYS marriage bill
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Dimensio
I just don't know what went wrong!
11:16 AM on 06/27/2011
What substantial discussion is required prior to enacting marriage equality?
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David Moore
Teacher, German, Math, Pennsylvania
11:38 AM on 06/27/2011
Same sex marriage has been debated repeatedly in other states for a decade. Incidentally, some conservatives voted in favor of same sex marriage in New York. Even Ted Olsen, the former US Solicitor General is arguing for the plaintiffs against Prop 8 in California. Furthermore, your argument makes no sense. When it comes to civil rights, the public should not be allowed to vote on them.
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TooLooze
Someone should do something about all the problems
08:34 AM on 06/27/2011
The headline is slightly incorrect; it should read "The issue is self respect." I don't understand how people can be so ignorant or fearful of another person's sexual orientation unless they are really expressing fear of their own emotions.
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garylloyd
07:50 AM on 06/27/2011
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Markus Lastur wrote:

"Hate to break this to you bub, but AIDS around the world is primarily a heterosexu­al disease.

The first thing that you need to realize is that HIV/AIDS is the result of a virus that really doiesn't discrimina­te on the basis of sexual orientatio­n, in fact the overwhelmi­ng majority of those who suffer from this condition around the world are as the result of sexual acts between heterosexu­als."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

According the CDC although gays make-up less than 10% of the population­, male-to-ma­le sex here in America accounts for more than 50% of AIDS cases. Add to this of the 400,000 deaths from AIDS, 300,000 were gay males. The conclusion we draw from these numbers is clear enough -- male homosexual­ity is morbidly unhealthy.
08:13 AM on 06/27/2011
Gary, can we please get back on track here? The article is about respecting gay individuals and allowing them the basic rights that "straight" Americans have. AIDS has no place in this discussion. My partner and I of 26 years have 2 thriving foster children, court appointed, monitored closely by social services ( in a very conservative state), all of whom have determined that the kids are thriving (and are "straight" by the way). Homosexuality is NOT a lifestyle choice, the choice comes when you realize you are "different" and what you're going to do with that difference - make the world a better place by being a good son, brother, and father or by self-destructing (often as a result of narrow minded individuals who have made the suicide rate of gay teenagers heartbreaking). If you want to bring AIDS into the picture, how many children have lost their parents to cigarette smoking, unhealthy eating, drug abuse, and numerous other "lifestyle choices? The bottom line is that gays (and their children) deserve respect because they've often had to fight a much harder fight to attain the basic rights that we, as Americans, should be granted without question. You'd best hope I can keep my kids off this post because they are ready to unleash on you. And thank you again, Markus, for your efforts to bring Gary around. Some people choose to go through life with blinders on.
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Ioan Lightoller
Proud Married Gay Pagan Man
07:42 AM on 06/28/2011
Fanned and faved. Garylloyd is one of those who will throw anything out there that he feels will "justify" his contempt for GLBT people and his resulting anti-equality mentality. You are right on choice. I have been different my whole life as far back as I can remember (age four). When my mother and I talked about it, she said she had a very strong feeling that I was gay by the time I was seven, my father by the time I was twelve. The only "choice" I had was to live a lonely celibate life or to take a chance on marrying a wonderful, caring, supportive man. I chose the latter path.


Both of my birth parents were straight as were my adoptive parents. I grew up in the 50s and 60s in a pretty rigidly heterosexual, staunchly Lutheran family. Guess what? I still turned out gay. I went through years of hoping some miracle would come along to make me straight...it took me until I was 54 to accept myself fully...and that is when the wonderful man I married came into my life.

We deserve respect equal to that given to heterosexuals and their families...we have families, too.
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cable1977
Against logic there is no armor like ignorance
09:27 AM on 06/27/2011
You are attempting to argue that homosexuality is morbidly unhealthy. As Markus quite succinctly made you aware below, when you examine the entire world, the majority of cases involve heterosexual, not homosexual transmission. Therefore, using your own logic, heterosexuality is morbidly unhealthy. You certainly did not attempt to rebut that point.

So your argument then ends up being that male homosexuality is morbidly unhealthy in America, while heterosexuality is morbidly unhealthy everywhere else in the world. So, it's better to be gay outside of the US, but to be straight inside the US from a risk perspective.
07:08 AM on 06/27/2011
"In fact, research shows that children with gay parents are just as likely to be well-adjusted as children with straight parents."

Also, you will note that you didn't quote the actual research, but rather an attorney's citation of some of the statistics.

Why not quote the entire conclusion? Doing this will put it all in perspective.
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garylloyd
08:12 AM on 06/27/2011
The question isn't one of "well-adjusted"; the question is whether gay parents sway the sexual orientation of their children.

A more helpful source for the answer to this question is the opinion of the APA:

----------­----------­----------­----------­----------­----------­----------­----------­----------­----------­---
Most scientists today agree that sexual orientatio­n is most likely the result of a complex interactio­n of environmen­tal, cognitive and biological factors. In most people, sexual orientatio­n is shaped at an early age.... For most people, sexual orientation emerges in early adolescence without any prior sexual experience. ...Sexual orientation exists along a continuum that ranges from exclusive heterosexuality to exclusive homosexuality and includes various forms of bisexuality.
http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/sexual-orientation.aspx
----------­----------­----------­----------­----------­----------­----------­----------­----------­----------­---
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David Moore
Teacher, German, Math, Pennsylvania
11:41 AM on 06/27/2011
By that reasoning then, straight parents can produce ONLY straight children, in much the same way gay kids come from gay parents, right? Your logic doesn't fit. It is not a causal relationship that you have established.
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TXanimal
Somewhere between Occam's Razor & Murphy's Law
02:12 PM on 06/27/2011
You left out some key points from the SAME article:

"There is also considerable recent evidence to suggest that biology, including genetic or inborn hormonal factors, play a significant role in a person's sexuality."

"No, human beings cannot choose to be either gay or straight. For most people, sexual orientation emerges in early adolescence without any prior sexual experience. Although we can choose whether to act on our feelings, psychologists do not consider sexual orientation to be a conscious choice that can be voluntarily changed."

"The reality is that homosexuality is not an illness. It does not require treatment and is not changeable."

http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/sexual-orientation.aspx
abetterplace
Capitalistic reverand
06:51 AM on 06/27/2011
You don't really think that people can be forced to respect anything or anybody with a law do you?
Respect is earned, not mandated.
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TooLooze
Someone should do something about all the problems
08:41 AM on 06/27/2011
I certainly do think that. Civil Rights legislation forced certain people to interact with, attend school with, shop with, and dine with minorities. They learned that minority people are not so different than themselves. The same generation of people and especially their children who were forced to accept the law willingly helped to elect a minority President.
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LeftRight
TANSTAAFL
08:56 AM on 06/27/2011
True, but LEGAL respect is mandated.
06:49 AM on 06/27/2011
"In fact, research shows that children with gay parents are just as likely to be well-adjusted as children with straight parents"

Research also shows that kids deprived of a father in their lives don't fare as well as kids that do. I'm sure that there is research that shows the same about kids without moms in their lives.

The research you refer to is very incomplete and inconclusive (by the authors' own admissions). Thousands of generations of human history trumps, by quite a long shot, your research.
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LeftRight
TANSTAAFL
08:59 AM on 06/27/2011
Actually, no, research shows that children with only one parent don't fare as well as kids with two parents. Whether that single parent be a mother or a father kids fare poorly with a single parent. The only exception is when the single parent is wealthy enough to provide all the care and love that a couple can.

By contrast, children of gay and lesbian couples do JUST as well as children of straight couples!
08:14 PM on 06/27/2011
"By contrast, children of gay and lesbian couples do JUST as well as children of straight couples! "

This is not supported by much evidence, and is only supported by a small amount of evidence.
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cable1977
Against logic there is no armor like ignorance
09:14 AM on 06/27/2011
"Thousands of generation­s of human history trumps, by quite a long shot, your research."

Actually, no it doesn't. Your argument is the logical fallacy known as the appeal to tradition.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-tradition.html

Just because something has been a certain way for a long amount of time doesn't imply that a different way cannot produce equivalent results. Therefore one actually needs the research that your deride in order to make such a determination.
12:22 PM on 06/27/2011
No, but the efficacy of the traditional family is indisputable, over thousands of generations of proven results.

Raising kids by those of same-sex orientation has no such demonstrable efficacy.
05:27 AM on 06/27/2011
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that this issue has far more to do than just "respect". This is about government interference. Does the government have a right to tel it's citizens to whom it can be married? Isn't that similar to "arranged marriages" to some degree? A conservative, restrictive, "old-fashioned" and archaic custom that has been abandoned by the western world....centuries ago...? This is NOT simply about the LGBTQ community, this is about personal choice, personal freedom, and of keeping the government out of one's life. I'm heterosexual and I have no, absolutely no objection same-sex marriage. Why would I? Why would anyone?
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Ioan Lightoller
Proud Married Gay Pagan Man
07:54 AM on 06/28/2011
Fanned and faved. Well-said. Some people just think they should be able to have a say over the lives of those of whom they do not approve.
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imdesign
Expression is Everything.
03:04 AM on 06/27/2011
Sadly legislation will not stop bigotry and prejudice. The opening of ones heart to accept another irrespective of race, religion, culture or nationalism will allow each one of us to meet in "equalness" -

Bigotry and prejudice do not dissolve with the passing of a law, but having an acceptance for who we truly are has a relationship with the Love we have for ourselves and our ability to express and recognise the same in another.

Perhaps the energy of this Truth and Love can inspire those who condemn those who they see as "different", to look past their judgement as see the person for who that truly are.
06:52 AM on 06/27/2011
Those who ignore the need for a mother and female role model in their lives, as well as a male and father role model, exhibit bigotry.

Those who ignore the differences in the sexes and don't think kids need to learn how to get along with each exhibit ignorance.

Those who think of gays and lesbians as less than human or not deserving of basic civil rights exhibit bigotry. In no state is a gay or lesbian denied the right to apply for a marriage license.
anon004
With this moniker, you were expecting a picture?
07:37 AM on 06/27/2011
"Those who ignore the need for a mother and female role model in their lives, as well as a male and father role model, exhibit bigotry."

Not in any dictionary I've ever read. You may want to argue that gay marriage is bad public policy or is bad for children (although you provide no evidence to support that), but you can't call it biogtry. Whereas, denying the civil rights of an entire group is biogtry, no question.
09:38 AM on 06/27/2011
"Those who ignore the need for a mother and female role model in their lives, as well as a male and father role model, exhibit bigotry."

No, it is those who believe that those role models can ONLY be the married , opposite-sex couple raising the child who are bigoted. The two people raising a child ARE NOT the only adults of either gender that child will ever see or interact with.
02:02 AM on 06/27/2011
Ms. Mollmann, very well said. I have not read your writings before, but I will be sure to in the future. I agree, the NY vote was huge and will set the stage for a lot of positive change in the coming years.