The Only Thing Weirder Than The Birthers....

The only thing weirder than the Birthers are the anti-Birthers, who blame the Birthers for being conspiracy theorists yet actively feed the conspiracy by refusing to call for President Obama to release his birth certificate.

The state official in Hawaii who manages such things has reiterated that there is indeed an original birth certificate on file which would confirm President Obama's having been born in Hawaii and that she has seen it, but state law won't allow her to release it unless the president authorizes it.

So what's the problem here? Release the original and let's be done with this madness.

I realize there are some faith-based Obama supporters who believe without seeing, but the rest of us in the reality-based world are starting to get that strange feeling we got when Mark Sanford tried to convince us that he was away from his family on Father's Day, hiking the Appalachian trail in order to clear his head and write a book.

During the last campaign, John McCain faced similar questions and promptly responded by releasing his original birth certificate. That's how normal people with nothing to hide handle these things.

Most American's aren't Birthers or anti-Birthers, but we are beginning to wonder why the president doesn't put this one to rest once and for all. Every day he allows this circus to continue is another day that he behaves less like the President of the United States facing weird accusations from fringe groups and more like a strange politician flying to Argentina to visit his soul-mate while pretending to be hiking the Appalachians.

Follow Mark Joseph on Twitter: www.twitter.com/markmjm

Comments

[ReedYoung]

quote:
During the last campaign, John McCain faced similar questions and promptly responded by releasing his original birth certificate. That's how normal people with nothing to hide handle these things.
/quote

Senator McCain posted a scanned copy on the Internet, just like President Obama's scanned copy on the Internet. You do know you can't affix a stamp, put a paper copy into your printer or scanner, and teleport the paper copy around the world, don't you?

[FINJA]

The President has better things to do with his day than respond to every inconsequential fringe group full of nut jobs. Anyone who gives this "birther" movement any consideration is obviously divorced from reality and brainwashed by the likes of BeckLimbaugh.

Dear Birthers,

Your party lost the election. This is supposed to suck for you. Get over it.

Signed,
Common Sense (not the Glenn Beck kind, the real kind)

[Rick H]

Glenn Beck is not a birther.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=105898

[iggy06]

Amen!! Finally someone has written exactly what all of us whacky "birther's" have been saying all along. I don't think I have ever witnessed anything so bizarre as the stampede of angry Obama bots who obidiently attacked and ridiculed all of us who simply want to see Obamas long form certificate along with his school transcripts. Every other president for the past century has made these available after the press and public asked for it. Why all the fuss? What is hilarious is watching the circus accusing and ridiculing anyone who wants to see this info as some kind of obssessed nut. It's exactly the opposite. Its the Obama people who have spent over a million in legal fees to keep his records secret, not to mention the month long birther campaign with coordinated talking points passed out by the DLC, DNC, and OBama admin.

[RedXIV]

The government of Hawaii has said that there are no "short form" and "long form" birth certificates in their state. And frankly, Obama's school records are none of your business.

[jwadvocate83]

"Every day he allows this circus to continue is another day that he behaves less like the President of the United States facing weird accusations from fringe groups and more like a strange politician flying to Argentina to visit his soul-mate while pretending to be hiking the Appalachians."

And every day Obama has to spend convincing conspiracy theorists that he was born in the United States is a day he's not doing what the majority of Americans voted him in office last year elected him to do, run the country. And yes, it follows that it's a conspiracy because his parents, the state of Hawaii, the state of Illinois, Harvard (and what the hell, lets throw The Riddler in there, too) all had to be in on it!

[mkoch]

There is a very simple test that will solve all of your questions. Find an individual who you know was born in Hawaii, other than President Obama. Request a copy of their birth certificate. If what you receive is an identical form to what they have provided for President Obama, then you have no legitimate argument. Be done with it.

[Stacie Green]

Posted July 28, 2009 on WorldNetDaily
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=105347

Unveiled! Hawaii's 1961 long-form birth certificates
Images of two 1961 Hawaii birth certificates similar to the one President Obama purportedly has on file have now been unveiled.

[Marion Delgado]

Pure falsehood on Joseph's part.

She is not reiterating that. She never said it. And GOP ploys don't give you unlimited control over other people's stuff. Neither Mark Joseph nor the Birthers have a tangible interest that gives them a right to anything from the president or the state of Hawaii beyond what they've already provided.

And it's a GOP lie that this is growing legs.

[brianguy]

wow, an author that actually gets it.

explain your position again, anti-birthers? because it makes about as much sense as saying man didn't walk on the moon.

[brianguy]

by the way, DailyKos poll says 77% of Americans believe Obama was born in U.S. (not that that necessarily makes him a natural born citizen, but it is certainly more likely). so what about the other 23% that don't believe so or aren't sure? they don't matter? because I for one, am not sure.

I thought Obama was about protecting the minority's interests... go figure. after all, 80% of Americans are happy with their healthcare, but are primarily concerned about rising costs. but he conveniently ignores that to try to elevate the interests of the rest (who already have free health care, no matter if they're even legal). all that at HIGHER cost for ours and future generations. goodie!

[IWillCallYouOut]

I mean I don't think they matter...and if I don;t probably a few others don't either...

[RedXIV]

What the hell? Yes, being born in the United States DOES automatically make him a natural born citizen. 14th Amendment. Read it.

Also, your 80% figure about health care is not only high, it's irrelevant. The reason why most people with health insurance are happy with their coverage is that most people have never been in a position where they need their insurance for more than routine doctor visits and maybe a few prescription drugs. If those people were to have a catastrophic injury or come down with a major disease like cancer, they'd discover that their insurance isn't anywhere near as good as they think it is.

[RedXIV]

No, your position is the one akin to moon landing deniers. Obama has provided his birth certificate. And pulling the original vault copy out would make no difference. You birthers would just dismiss it as a forgery, just like you've done (without any evidence to support the claim) with the copy Obama put up on his website. As is typical of conspiracy theorists, no amount of evidence will convince birthers that they're wrong.

[ElBruce]

Define "release." Do the birthers get to hold it in their hands? Yeah, they can be trusted not to rip it up and burn the shreds. I'm thinking let's leave it where it is.

[brianguy]

last I checked it's 2009. a digital PDF copy released by the White House will be just fine. just like McCain's birth records, and every other Hawaiian long form I have seen online.

[RedXIV]

You guys have already dismissed the birth certificate posted to Obama's website as a forgery. Does anybody seriously think the PDF you're requesting wouldn't be similarly dismissed?

[DreamsInAction]

This policy surprises me because when I ran for the Senate in Puerto Rico, I had to submit an original birth certificate. It identifies the date of birth, time of birth, names of my parents, place of birth, birth place of both of my parents, date in which the birth certificate was recorded and the ages of both parents. It shows the registration number, the birth registration number, the place of birth, the residence of the mother, the name of the hospital, the person’s complete name, their gender, whether they were born alone, as twins, or as triplets; the date of birth, the age of the father, his residence, his birth place, his occupation, his skin color (race), the mothers full name, her domicile, her occupation, her skin color (race), her age, her birthplace, how many other children she gave birth to, how many children died that she gave birth to, how many children were born dead, the signature of the father, where the birth certificate was signed, the name of the doctor, the name of the individual who registered the birth certificate; and the location and date. It had to show the signature of the Director of the Department of Health in Puerto Rico, the Secretary of Health as well as the Director of the Division of Demographic Registry. It had to be certified and stamped the day it was recorded. If his original birth certificate looks anything like mine, he’s got a lot of “ik-splan’n tu du”!

[JafiJafur]

So - you're a birther then?

[Lisa Bates]

I can't read through all these comments, but if no one else has mentioned it, OBAMA MADE HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE AVAILABLE ONLINE DURING HIS CAMPAIGN!! Seriously, if all these people saying "if only he would make it available" would do 5 minutes of research on a site other than a birther site, they would see it for themselves. Check out the snopes site to see all the information you can imagine on the subject.

[TxGat]

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=105764

I throw this out as 'fresh meat'. Now someone says they have a copy of his Kenyan birth certificate. LOL.

FWIW - My only desire is that, as a country of Laws we follow those laws. I could care less if Obama stays or goes. Do I personally wish he were not our President? Yes because he's very liberal. But so what! He's only going to be president for so long and no longer. That's our system, all sides get a voice and power shifts over time. NP. It is our Constitution that remain beyond any one person or party and this is what has been erroded by the questions surrounding Obama's eligibility.

I have found all the personal attacks to be expected, it is what the small minded do in place of legitimate debate, they instead argue. There is a difference. Anyway, take a look at this. Don't know if it's legit or garbage, could be either but is probably the latter. Still doesn't get around the urgent need to simply formalize a process for Constitutional requirements for the office of the presidency. This kind of stuff is only going to propagate until we do.

[LegalProf]

Yeah, your friends will have to try again with their forgeries. That one is from the Republic of Kenya. Which did not exist until 1964. Which is why you guys keep saying his daddy is British. Get your stories straight.

If anyone checks out TxGat's other posts, you will see that this new attitude -- hey I am a reasonable guy just wishin he'd produce his birth certificate -- is a facade. You are either a birther or you are normal. At this point, anyone who just says "Oh he should produce more than he has" is just a nut. And passing it off as just reasonable curiosity and some sort of compromise from the farther right fringe is unacceptable.

Look, I saw a boat fall off the edge of the horizon. I am not saying the earth is flat, I am just saying that the scientists need to do more to prove that it's round. I mean, after all, I saw a boat fall off the edge of the horizon. And someone on the internet says the world is flat. Why can't the scientists just be reasonable and do more to make me believe it is round? What are they hiding???

[TxGat]

There you go again. Personal attack on my character. You still don't get it do you? Most of your negative attitude toward me stems from you characterizing anything that questions Obama's presidency as negative. You create within yourself and project it to me because I disagree with you. What I Have done is relay all the stuff that's out there that questions Obama because it questions the process. Truth is, we dont have a process for this, it really has never come up before, not like this. And every direction you turn with Obama new tangents to "is he Natural Born" keep coming up. I've made none of it up. What I wish we could do is just look into it, formalize a process so this kind of thing never comes up again and use now as the opportunity.

[TxGat]

Do you really not care if someone is not a natural born citizen? Do you have so little regard for our Constitution?

You denegrade me into a frame of reference you can attack and then you attack, that being that I MUST (and you fill in the blank with your own thoughts) and keep missing what I'm trying to accomplish with MY thoughts (as opposed to your projections). Let me be Very Clear with you - WE NEED TO LOOK INTO ALL THESE ALLEGATIONS FOR THE SAKE OF OUR CONSTITUTION AND OUR FREEDOMS OR WE WILL LOOSE BOTH. Now you decide "LegalProf" do you continue to poroject Your thoughts onto me so that you can feel superior in your beliefs or do you join me in a real discussion based upon both of us having our own thoughts? Go on all you like about how legitimate it is for Obama to seal his records and spoon feed us tidbits that don't amount to much and I will continue to disagree with you. You hinge everything upon a copy of a birth certificate that could have been obtained without him even being born in the state, do you agree with this or disagree? If you disagree then IMHO you are deluding yourself and all your analogious stories are just more of the same.

[TxGat]

And FWIW - I don't expect you to get it and treat me with any kind of respect. I expect you to turn my words or impune my motives to something you can attack - but it won't make you right it will only turn a dialogue into a monologue.

[Rick H]

LegalProf,
If you had read the document you would have noticed on the lower right of the page it is dated "February 17, 1964" .

[lightningbolt]

The Kenyan birth certificate has been proven fake. It has too many obvious errors.

[Pierce Nichols]

You birthers are so easy to punk... this is the third or fourth transparently fake Kenyan birth certificate that I've heard of... and I'm sure there have been others.

Obama release legally sufficient proof that he was born in Honolulu. The validity of that proof has been backed up by the state of Hawai'i and contemporaneous birth announcements in the Honolulu papers. Any claim that it's fraudulent is therefore quite extraordinary... and there is a distinct lack of extraordinary evidence that it is.

And it's also ultimately irrelevant, because he's a natural born citizen through his mother. According to the US State Department (http://travel.state.gov/law/info/info_609.html) a person born to one citizen and one alien parent in wedlock between 1952 and 1986 is a citizen at birth if their citizen parent was physically present in the US for ten years, five of them after the age of 14. Since Ann Dunham was 19 and had lived her entire life in the US, she met both halves of the test.

[Johnkel]

So if you claim to be a "birther"or demand to see President Obama's long form birth certificate because you have some kind of "doubts", here is what you are really saying:
1. You believe the officials of the State of Hawaii including the GOP governor that have certified the birth have committed fraud and forgery, felony crimes.
2. You believe the FBI and every other agency that have verified this birth are also in on this fraud and are willing participants in a grand cover up conspiracy.
3. You believe that the local Hawaiian newspapers that anounced the birth in August 1961 were somehow clairvoyant in agreeing to go along with this ruse to ensure this baby would become President 4 decades later.
That is what you believe. Walk yourself through those 3 points again. How patriotic do you feel calling state and federal officials liars and felons? How sane do you feel presuming that all these folks are involved in a grand cover up? Remember you have to believe it's a grand conspiracy for it to all work in this irrational scheme.
This belief system you are concocting isn't reality. If you can't admit that the above points are irrational delusions, then you have bigger problems than doubting our President's location of birth. End of story.

[LegalProf]

well said. and add to that you would have to believe that a very pregnant woman in 1961 would travel to and from Kenya quickly -- as hard as that was back then -- leaving no passport evidence, for no good reason, and then start this massive cover-up for no other good reason except that she intuited that her black son (in 1961! when he could not legally use my bathroom where I lived) was going to be president.

It does not become any less absurd if one just pretends to have curiosity about "more" proof. The birthers and even the bi[rther]curious are the same, nuts or racists, or both. Because even having doubt or questions means you buy into the whole conspiracy claim Johnkel lays out. There is no middle gound.

[Pierce Nichols]

At the time of Obama's birth, Kenya was recovering from the Mau-Mau Rebellion... one of the most brutally mediapathic of the colonial wars. It made such an impression that 'mau-mauing' became a common political colloquialism across the English speaking world.

[IWillCallYouOut]

Word. I appreciate you hitting on that ridiculous nuance of more proof.

Like I only believe in a magical Kenyan republic that predates Kenya's conception a little bit.

I only need slight persuasion that the Hawaii state government was not psychic.

CAN I JUST SAY THAT THESE CLAIMS ARE BENEATH HIM? IF I WAS BARACK I'D TELL YOU TO KISS MY KENYAN CHEEKS OK? (SECRETLY TO MICHELLE, OBVI HE HAS TO PRETEND TO CARE ABOUT ALL CITIZENS, EVEN LOBOTOMIZED ONES.)

BUT HE HAS MORE IMPORTANT STUFF TO DO, TRUST, THAN ADDRESS THIS RACIST, XENOPHOBIC DRIVEL.

[Rick H]

Columnist Andrew Sullivan is also calling on President Obama to release the long-form birth certificate..
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=105773

[zippywpinhead]

wnd.com?

FAIL

[LegalProf]

Andrew Sullivan is not the official spokesman for the Hawaii Dept. of Health. Those that are have spoken. If you do not believe them, finance a lawsuit against them and file it. Otherwise shut up, really.

[fredwenn]

Okay.... say Obama was born in Kenya. WHO CARES? - if I was born in Kenya to my American mother .... I"m still an American citizen.

He still would not be a naturalized citizen... because his mom is AMERICAN./.

enough of this madness.

[TxGat]

Because the "Natural Born" clause in the US Constitution does not allow for foreign birth, and it has been interpreted that it also does not allow for only one parent being a US Citizen.

FWIW - for me the 'madness' is to see this guy elected president without having to meet our peculiar qualifications first. You either follow your Constitutional laws or you don't. IMHO, right now we aren't and legitimate doubt has been cast upon his eligibility.

[iplaw]

I find your argument sickeningly disingenuous. No lawyer could interpret the Constitution in that manner because it would automatically disqualify every presidential candidate born before 1776, since no United States existed before that time. Further explanation for the logic challenged GOP: that also means that no parents of presidents born before 1776 could have been citizens of the United States, just like Obama's father.

As an attorney I applaud your vague use of "it has been interpreted", but I am pretty sure you need someone with actual legal training to interpret laws in the US. I would suggest you read a book, but I know Birthers are immune to books.

[jwadvocate83]

I'm trying to think of the last time a newly-elected president was made to present a birth certificate to the public to prove eligibility...?

[Palito]

LOL

all you birthers have ZERO knowledge about citizenship law in this nation. there is no law backing up the nonsense you wrote.

[DenverJuggler]

What you wrote is not correct.
"Natual Born" *DOES* include foreign birth, as long as 1 parent is a US citizen; since Stanley Ann was born in Kansas, Obama *WOULD* be a citizen, even if born on the Moon or Mars.

Here's the link: http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode08/usc_sec_08_00001401----000-.html

The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:

(d) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year prior to the birth of such person, and the other of whom is a national, but not a citizen of the United States;

(e) a person born in an outlying possession of the United States of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year at any time prior to the birth of such person;

[RedXIV]

No, illegitimate kooky doubt has been cast in the minds of conspiracy theorists. There's a difference. Obama was born in Hawaii, which is part of the United States, making him a natural born citizen. There's no one shred of real evidence to suggest otherwise. Hence birthers having to resort to desperate tactics like a shoddily forged "Kenyan birth certificate".

[overcat]

Mr. Jacobs

Your central premise is flawed. The birther obsession has nothing to do with legitimate citizenship, so no evidence of legitimate citizenship will put the issue to bed. Legitimate evidence has been offered and affirmed by multiple credible sources and duly rejected as "not good enough". No amount of documentation or anecdotal or coincidental evidence will satisfy those who are understandably but inaccurately being treated as crazy conspiracy theorists.

The birthers don't care about this issue. What they care about is that they lost the 2008 election, and they're inventing reasons why they're justified in rejecting the results of a decisive, legal, fair, legitimate electoral victory that threw them out of the White House and reduced them to a minority party in both houses of Congress. They were thumped by Democratic opponents who played by the rules and won decisively. They're angry, resentful and desperate for a caveat that will invalidate reality.

THAT, and only that, is what this is really about.

[LegalProf]

Exactly, overcat. Anyone can see through the charade, even of these birther agnostics who "believe" Obama was born in the US but think he should prove it anyway. Sort of like demanding that the Steelers replay the Super Bowl, though we "think" they won. And if the Steelers refuse, they must have something to hide. It can't just be that they have some pride and do not feel they need replay the game to get the White House invite? What is the harm in just replaying the game, really? ANd if you don't, then we will assume you know you'd lose. It's like grade school recess talk.

I actually now know way more info about Obama's birth than my own, by far. Yet there is some secret missing information that they pretend to seek. They are not really birthers, you see, they are just bi[rther]curious.

But think about it: if he really is the antichrist, couldn't he have produced his long form BC though no one else can anymore? And kept his stepgrammy from getting him mixed up with his dad? Or made sure that his stepdad filled out his Indonesian school form just so? Or get his real BC not to say Father: Lucifer, as the giveaway? Pretty nonomnipotent for the antichrist.

[IslandGyal]

ROTFLMAO@ "But think about it: if he really is the antichrist, couldn't he have produced his long form BC though no one else can anymore? And kept his stepgrammy from getting him mixed up with his dad? Or made sure that his stepdad filled out his Indonesian school form just so? Or get his real BC not to say Father: Lucifer, as the giveaway? Pretty nonomnipotent for the antichrist."

[IslandGyal]

You forgot to mention most of this is driven by racism, even if they protest to such....

[TxGat]

You need to rise above the character attacks. Everyone is not a racist. This is just a left wing smoke screen to stifle legitimate debate. If you can't attack on the points, you attack on character? Come on.....

[TxGat]

Not being a 'birther' you aren't in a position to speak for them. This looks to me to be an umbrella movement. That being, some may well feel that way, most I suspect do not. Most are probably like me, they want us to follow the law. Can it be anymore simple than that. Let the outcome fall where it falls, but don't ignore your Constitution. I'm surprised at all the flack that has come from simply wanting to follow the law, our Constitution.

Side note, Obama isn't big on following Constitutional law. In Honduras they followed their Constitution and removed their president (who overstepped his authority so that he could be relected past their Constitutional term limits) and Obama calls it a military coup and wants the guy back in power. Yet their Congress went to their Supreme Court, which interpreted their Constitution, and then both these bodies followed their Constitutional remedies and had the military remove him from office. I see something like that and I don't like the way Obama thinks on Constitutional issues. It concerns me an it should concern all of us.

[JafiJafur]

Well - let's see: Obama is a natural born citizen, as he was born in Honolulu Hawaii. He's been a resident of the US for at least 14 years, and was older than 35 when he was elected.

So tell me how is he isn't following the constitution?

And the Honduran reference - that's kind of a reach on your part.

[iggy06]

I never thought I would witness fellow lefties acting like braindead sheep. Its absolutely scary the hive mind at work here. Its exactly like the Fox robots except in reverse. In fact, I will say this is even more shocking than the senseless Bush supporters I was tortured over for 8 years. More shocking because I assumed lefties were just smarter and more tolerant. I was wrong. Over a month has gone by and despite the fact that only 2 or 3 media people are raising questions about this, about 30 other media talkking heads have been ridiculing anyone who wants to see Obamas long form certificate and his school records. I would say its the anti-birthers who are the ones making the fuss and acting like braindead morons.