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Equal Pay -- Will We Ever Get There? An Interview With Lilly Ledbetter

Posted: 04/15/2012 4:35 pm

April is the month every year when the paychecks of women working full-time, year-round catch up with what men earned by the previous December 31. This year it's April 17.

There are a number of causes for the pay gap, including job segregation (so-called "men's jobs" pay more than "women's jobs") and the fact that working moms are often seen as less serious or less reliable, despite solid evidence to the contrary.

But plain old sex discrimination plays a big part. Lilly Ledbetter found out the hard way after 19 years at Goodyear, when she learned she had been underpaid all along compared to men doing the same job. She sued -- and won in lower courts. But the Supreme Court overturned 40 years of precedent when it ruled against her in the now-infamous Ledbetter v. Goodyear case, saying she should have complained earlier -- even though she didn't know about the discrimination.

The Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act restoring the previous standard (a victim has 180 days to complain beginning when she learns about the discrimination) was the first law President Obama signed. Ledbetter's new book Grace and Grit chronicles her struggle and the aftermath. I interviewed her this month for my radio show Equal Time With Martha Burk.

MB: When did you go to work for Goodyear?

LL: I was hired in 1979. There were 5 of us in the group, 2 female.

MB: How did you find out after 19 years that you were making less than the men doing the same job and in some cases with less seniority?

LL: An anonymous note -- a little piece of paper with my salary and 3 male co-workers. I knew it was correct, because my numbers were there to the penny. The first thing that hit me was devastation, humiliation. Then I thought about how many hours of overtime I had worked and not been compensated for what I was legally entitled to, and how hard it had been on my family struggling to pay the mortgage, education, doctor bills. We had done without quite a bit. And this was not right. I didn't know how I could through my 12 hour shift.

MB: Did you leave the plant and go home?

LL: No, I finally got my composure. Halfway through my night shift it hit me. My retirement, my 401(k), and someday my Social Security all were dependent on what I was making -- and that's another tremendous loss.

MB: Did you go to the company and complain?

LL: I had already been to the company recently, because there were rumors, and I wanted to know where I stood. They told me "you're just listening to too much B.S.. Your salary is fine." Later my lawyer found out that for many years I had been paid below the minimum for the job I was doing.

MB: It had to be a hard decision to file a suit, and risk retaliation or even getting fired.

LL: Yes, I thought about it. But I decided I could not let a major corporation do me this way, and not stand up for myself. I went straight to the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission closest to my home.

MB: You've said that one of the most important pieces of advice you can give to 2012-04-15-YourVioceHuff.JPGwomen in this situation is "don't hold back, tell the investigators as much detail as you can, and document as much as you can."

LL: That's absolutely correct. It's very hard -- you feel like you're being a complainer and a whiner, and that's actually the reputation you get when you do file a charge. But you should open up and tell everything. I was shunned by co-workers.

MB: You were transferred to another job where you had to lift heavy tires all day. You were over 60 years old. Wasn't that retaliation for filing the charge, which is against the law?

LL: Yes, but I lost that part and also an age discrimination complaint.

MB: The State of New Mexico has a rule that any company applying for a state contract has to file a gender pay equity report showing pay statistics for men and women in each job category. Would that have helped you?

LL: Absolutely. I thought because Goodyear was a federal contractor they would be following the law. But that turned out not to be the case, and I couldn't find out.

MB: What would your advice be to women who might be considering filing a complaint?

LL: Do your research on salaries in your area. Do not take anything for granted, and document everything. Discrimination is alive and well today. You cannot afford to work any length of time accepting less money, because you can never catch up.

Listen to the full Lilly Ledbetter interview here:

 
 
 

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April is the month every year when the paychecks of women working full-time, year-round catch up with what men earned by the previous December 31. This year it's April 17. There are a number of ca...
April is the month every year when the paychecks of women working full-time, year-round catch up with what men earned by the previous December 31. This year it's April 17. There are a number of ca...
 
 
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07:49 AM on 04/19/2012
Thank you for posting Lilly Ledbetter’s live interview. It is such an empowering reminder that one woman can make a significant difference in many women’s lives. My team at Apollo Research Institute is conducting a comprehensive study on the role of women leaders in the 21st-century workforce. What we have found from interviewing more than 150 professional women and reviewing the literature on women and work is that 2/3 of women are breadwinners or co-breadwinners in their families, women occupy one-half of the overall workforce, and almost 40% of working women out-earn their husbands. According to Liza Mundy, Washington Post staff writer and author of Time Magazine’s cover story, "The Richer Sex," today’s men are actually drawn to educated, working women. A 2001 study by University of Texas psychologist David Buss revealed that men’s attitudes and values about prospective partners have changed. Men have swopped seeking women with domestic skills to pursuing women who can contribute economically. At Apollo Research Institute we are excited to see women making significant differences in their homes, communities, and workplaces. To receive updates on Apollo Research Institute findings, subscribe to our monthly newsletter at apolloresearchinstitute.org
07:21 PM on 04/18/2012
There will never be equality as long as there are 2 humans alive on the same planet. Humans want to feel that they are better than someone else and that root of pride, prejudice, and egocentricity is inherent in the human race. No other mammal kills for the sake of killing or just hates for the sake of hating.
05:17 PM on 04/18/2012
Corporations are people too. They get a bigger profit if they pay women less.
05:16 PM on 04/18/2012
Equal pay for women may eventually get here. But, it will never get "there."
04:45 PM on 04/18/2012
women by the way , don't want equal pay. they want to do less and make more
05:07 PM on 04/18/2012
you should drop the UM from your name, Im sure ppl know your 1 anyway.
07:22 PM on 04/18/2012
ROTFLMAO That was too funny sage91501. I needed that laugh! Thanks.
07:32 PM on 04/18/2012
your a comedienne. i understand that when women feel threatened they lash out. lash out as much as you feel necessary. remember , i am here for you.
04:42 PM on 04/18/2012
i think women should get equal pay soon as they start dying at the same age that men do from the stress of supporting a family.
after all what is good for the goose is good for the gander
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
JoanneRM
10:33 PM on 04/18/2012
It is only in recent times that women live longer than men. Men always lived longer, because women died in childbirth at a young age, and that kept the average age down. The age that is given is average age you know.

Women who work outside their home, in addition to keeping their home, are entitled to be paid the same wage for the SAME job. For example, if a man is checking people into a building that is the same as a woman checking in workers into the job site. If two data entry workers with the same experience are hired on the same day, they should be paid the same. If two doctors with the same experience from equally good educational institutions are hired on the same day, they should be paid the same amount. But chances are in all these cased, the woman will be paid less money.

What is still true is that women are still asked to train men to become managers, but they are not promoted into management positions themselves. Years of experience of doing the job is not valued, even if you have been doing the job for many months between managers, and doing it for the pay of an assistant.
04:14 PM on 04/18/2012
when will they get paid equally? when they stop socializing and playing on their phones. its called work for a reason.
03:54 PM on 04/18/2012
Obama needs to sign another executive order
03:40 PM on 04/18/2012
Women will probably get paid equally when they do equal work.
04:44 PM on 04/18/2012
i agree, how about in the military. they make equal pay but you wont find them on the front line
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
dav0001
I can't believe you people
05:01 PM on 04/18/2012
To all three of the cavemen above me. Your posts are ridiculous and people like you are the problem with the world today. You all obviously have some sort of resentment towards women but you really need to deal with your mother issues elsewhere.
08:22 PM on 04/18/2012
Sorry, I have to disagree. I was an MP in Iraq (2) tours, and I had females right there in the firefights and security patrols as well as checkpoints we were tasked to operate.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
jetncat
01:55 PM on 04/18/2012
When will women get paid equal? When they except women can have conservative values and an economic opinion also. Women are taken seriously in the business world. The good ole boys club still keeps women out.

Women aren't just about reproductive rights. We can run companies and have politcal opinions too.

When women crack the ceiling and are elected to highest office in our land, then maybe we will be respected and get paid equally.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ken Renner
01:45 PM on 04/18/2012
I recently retired from General Mills. Women were paid exactly the same as I but had us men do the heavier jobs and was considered chouvanistic if we didn't. I never complained because I did not want any coworker to hurt themsef in any way. They were productive except when there was an issue and the ladies did sometimes create issues.
01:24 PM on 04/18/2012
The last thing we need is another law about equal pay---The market place will work all that out----Gov't should stay out of this area. If Gov't wants to have equal pay in their overpaid area's of work, then that's their choice. But we don't need Gov't to interfere any more in private enterprise.
03:02 PM on 04/18/2012
It's 2012 and the market place still hasn't worked it out.
11:19 AM on 04/19/2012
More so than you think---Don't listen to all the socialists are spouting out----The market place does handle even this.
01:23 PM on 04/18/2012
I'm self employed. Who is to blame for my plight?
08:31 PM on 04/18/2012
yourself.
08:41 PM on 04/18/2012
Exactly my point. Instead of blaming the world for your own problems and inadequacies go out and do something about it. Problem solved. (Oh BTW, please tell me you didn't sign up to Huff Post just to say that.)
01:10 PM on 04/18/2012
I spent 47 years in the public workforce. I worked in farming, manufacturing, government, military, and several service oriented activities. Every place I worked had the same pay scale for men and women. I even worked in a couple of places where a woman I supervised made more than I did. (because she has been there for several years and had rceived raises.) I am convinced that the so called pay difference is a myth.
03:03 PM on 04/18/2012
If you keep lying to yourself you will eventually believe the lie.
04:53 PM on 04/18/2012
perhaps you need to follow the same advice, women in general work fewer hours per week than men. There was an article recently about female orthopaedic surgeons making a 1/3 less than their male counterparts. Only problem, was all the orthopaedic surgeons recieved exactly the same RVU scale pay. The only way to explain the 1/3 difference was the total number of hours worked. One average the women saw 1/3 fewer patients each week and performed 1/3 the number of surgeries. So please keep on believing the liberal lie.