The most progressive US president in a generation comes to the most important international meeting since the Second World War and delivers a speech so...
The pushback against Howard Dean for his call to "kill" the Senate health care bill, continued on Friday night, with a prominent Senate Democrat picking...
EDITOR'S NOTE: The story below includes references to polling conducted by the firm Research 2000. The reliability and accuracy of Research 2000's polling has since...
The left's anger over the public option and the anti-Obama revolt is long overdue, says Ralph Nader. Benjamin Sarlin talks to the self-professed "pioneer" of...
Perfect. Now move on needs to target those who are applying for medic-aid but are denied because they make over 250 per month. the ones who call the welfare office every day to help pay their uninsured emergency medical bills because there are no other options for them. those are the people you need to reach... the ones who are hurting and never read political blogs but will jump on a bus and protest.
Pleneras: Perfect. Now move on needs to target those who are
I disagree with your attitudinizing, but I agree that a march is a great idea.
I find it incredibly frustrating that no progressive organization has had the basic common sense to contact EVERY OTHER PROGRESSIVE ORGANIZATION and agree on a SINGLE DATE for a massive DC MARCH. ALL of their resources should be put into convincing people to go, and to advertising it and the reasons for the march in advance.
Look--if you're serious about doing this, it should be HUGE.
You should get in contact with MoveOn and every progressive organization out there and get them to agree on the date and have them place maximum emphasis on the importance of the this one march.
I think that the point of the march should be to take back our democracy from the corporate special interests, and that the points in the manifesto should be fully publicly funded elections, single payer or a strong public option that can lead to it, real banking reform, an end to the wars, clean energy on a smart grid, fair trade and the EFCA.
If you need a volunteer to help organize it, write me at this address: angantyr@yahoo.com.
Moral_Hazard: I disagree with your attitudinizing, but I agree that a
This is due, in part, to changing conditions brought about ways that improve our ways to communicate with one another.
Just as the invention of the telephone made it unnecessary for people to write letters but still allowed them to do so, the creation of the Internet makes it possible for a great many people to exchange their views on this site and elsewhere.
You want us to take action so that Washington, DC will notice?
We did that. Last year.
We, en masse, voted for Obama.
How do you send a message any clearer than that? And the response from Washington, DC?
If this didn't catch their attention, how likely is it that a 60's-type protest is going to do it?
Many liberals and progressives are working with the technology that they have. Some, and apparently many, believe that they can accomplish more by using that techology.
AnotherMcIntosh: This is due, in part, to changing conditions brought about
Marching worked for the tea baggers. They got a heck of a lot of media attention just by showing up and screaming. They managed to change the discourse and perpetuate un-thruths about the bill that caused confusion and pause. Maybe progressives ought to do the same. Not perpetuate lies, but maybe show up and scream instead of blog and whine? We voted for him, got him there, but he's not a freaking dictator. He can't do whatever he wants, it's not in the constitution. This is a democracy. Get out there and exercise your democratic right to protest. Did he not say at the beginning of this year that he'd need our help to push through the change we voted for? It worked in the 60's so why won't it work now?
Violist: Marching worked for the tea baggers. They got a heck
Progressives are not the establishment, Democrats are! There is a difference. Republicans and Democrats are both tied to corporate power as we march towards neo-fascism.
Progressives do not necessarily affiliate with any party (since the Democrats especially since the inclusion of the DLC and New Democrats) do not represent the interests of progressives ... they just pay lip service to issues of peace, and social justice.
KaAp: Progressives are not the establishment, Democrats are! There is a
the last time we really got bodies out to protest was about Iraq...even then i was upset there were not thousands more. We must do this. There are enough progressive groups who can work together to get a BIG rally going..tell me where & when I'm there...get the country's attention that the Teabaggers aren't the only voice
madame48: the last time we really got bodies out to protest
Maybe it's because we progressives are the last of the working people -- with jobs to do, families to care for, and a whole bunch of charity work taking up what's left of our time. Who has time to take a trip anywhere, let alone to Washington?
raechel: Maybe it's because we progressives are the last of the
Matt I asked the same questions the other day. We should not blame our politicians for what we allow them to do. We have no one to blame but ourselves. We sit around andtake action by writing on blogs or making phone calls but where are the March on Washington or to your elected official's office.
pjean: Matt I asked the same questions the other day. We
"I want to see affirmative ideas about raising the progressive army that's been missing in action throughout this process. Where the hell have we been?!"
We've been exactly where citizens of a Democracy are supposed to be. We've been at the polls voting.
I lived through the 60's, when Americans were murdered for their beliefs and actions, the equal rights marches, the peace marches, the Watts and Chicago riots and burnings.
Do you really believe that shouting and violence are improvements on the democratic process in which citizens vote based on candidates' statements and promises, and that we, the citizens, have failed if those politicians turns out to be a liars and whores?
So your really think that a march is going to overcome the willingness of national, state, and local politicians to sell their souls to the highest bidder? Or that a march is going to get universal affordable health care when the last election didn’t?
Marnie1: "I want to see affirmative ideas about raising the progressive
What's hard to figure out is why the progressives most ready to screech in anger at the public option's removal from the bill are the ones whining in these comments that democracy is too hard for them.
hp_blogger_Matt Osborne: What's hard to figure out is why the progressives most
Are you trying to say that politicians don't pay attention to polls that over and over have said that 60 % of the people want public option? If you mean we need to beat them over the heads with our ideas, then maybe we should elect different Democrats in the primaries.
vlm1948: Are you trying to say that politicians don't pay attention
The USA is a vast country. For most, the cost of a trip to DC and hotel, etc. can be a $1000 or more. Plus, you have to take time off work, when everyone is scared to lost their jobs.
About 30 years ago, there was a huge gay march on Washington. Organizers talked to experienced cops, etc. who worked thes types of mass demonstrations frequently, who said that the line of marchers that took hours to pass the capitol probably numbered around a million.
Then, on the news, the number was estimated at a few thousand, and the only pictures shown were of a few drag queens. If it even made it to the news in your state.
In France, anyone can drive or take a train to the capitol in a few hours. It is hard to fire people for taking part in a demonstration. The press there would not lie about the numbers, and slant the news against the demostrators.
In the USA, it turned out to be a waste of time, jobs, money, etc. for us.
TryToBeFlexible: The USA is a vast country. For most, the cost
I'll disagree with it being a waste. Polls remain invisible to people for many reasons. Large demonstrations involving polled opinion turn them into a different thing.
However, I'll completely agree with you about the expense and jobs part. A lot of people are trying very hard to keep afloat and aren't thinking about possibly going under to attend a demonstration.
That being said, I still agree with Matt in that I wonder why there hasn't been a march. We have progressive organizations that we donate money to, many of which are better funded than a number of the organizations that came together worldwide to protest the Iraq War when it had pretty much become a done deal. That may not have prevented the war. But, the sight of over half a million in NYC alone on the streets in the freezing cold definitely changed the dynamics of public sentiment. You weren't finding fence sitters anymore.
So, why haven't some of these progressive organizations that solicit our donations and receive them come together to have a march on Washington and publicize it the same way the march on February 15, 2003 regarding the Iraq war? After all, that is their job. They have the time and duty to organize transportation and lodging, in addition to getting the appropriate permits. Perhaps nothing happened because it took awhile for the progressive movement to realize that Obama was not going to act in their interests if not pushed? I can't think of another reason.
Eris23: I'll disagree with it being a waste. Polls remain invisible
@ Trytobeflexible, if it was looked at as a march it would be fruitless. It does not matter if the media shows up or not if this was to become a solutions rally! All the different progressive organizations and followers could get together and after getting some idea as to the scope of its size and attributes, can then start finding ways to implement solutions. Martin luther King did not just march on washington, he implemented strategic plans to get the government listening such as boycotts. We are smart enough to think outside the box my friend. We need to start having progressive round tables which include our working class, our intelligencia, our social activists and self professing patriots. This will yield much more than a simple march could ever do.
Newave: @ Trytobeflexible, if it was looked at as a march
Single-payer advocates were escorted out and arrested just for demanding a seat at the roundtable......, the dem leadership did nothing. The President did nothing. And you think we should march?..., lol
And now yer upset that dems are losing support over this?
They compromised away what we were willing to march for , on the first day......, so, no......, we won't march for dems. We won't march for 'centrist' reforms that are nothing but gifts to the very corporate entities that put us in this situation for so many years.
I would march for single-payer, but, it's not on the table, that I wasn't invited to sit at .......,
And where's the seat we were promised? I'd like to hang it on my wall, so I remember what dems and this WH did to reforms and the processs to change the "Politics of the Past"......,
Coinyer101: Single-payer advocates were escorted out and arrested just for demanding
You want a link? One leading to support the statement that "Single-payer advocates were escorted out and arrested just for demanding a seat at the roundtable"?
In a democracy, you have a permanent invitation to participate.
In a democracy, you take a seat at the table by taking a stand wherever you are.
In a democracy, every citizen is a stakeholder, but if we roll over on lies and fraud by government and business, we'll just get more.
If we've elected ruffians, we must replace them with people willing to work for us. Instead of accepting the norm of career officeholders, which makes our representatives vulnerable to corporate interests, we need to foster the concept of limited stints of service--two terms at most, for most.
Obama told us during the campaign that we'd have to hold his feet to the fire. It's time he felt the heat. It's time to make a public showing, and a genuine grassroots march on Washington is a great way to do it.
PennP: In a democracy, you have a permanent invitation to participate.
It is so frustrating to see the progressive community consistently getting clocked by the insurance companies and the far right. I have to say that after this health care fight I see why. Screaming isn't a strategy and being right isn't enough. As far as I see, our President has a long term strategy and is building the framework. The left has no strategy for dealing with congress and especially the senate. (They might run a commercial and call them names.) A lot of the folks complaining about Barack have been in this game for years, and all we got under their leadership is George Bush. Barack Obama on a bad day gets me more than I've gotten in a loonnnggg time.
njeriz: It is so frustrating to see the progressive community consistently
That's the new target date.
I find it incredibly frustrating that no progressive organization has had the basic common sense to contact EVERY OTHER PROGRESSIVE ORGANIZATION and agree on a SINGLE DATE for a massive DC MARCH. ALL of their resources should be put into convincing people to go, and to advertising it and the reasons for the march in advance.
Look--if you're serious about doing this, it should be HUGE.
You should get in contact with MoveOn and every progressive organization out there and get them to agree on the date and have them place maximum emphasis on the importance of the this one march.
I think that the point of the march should be to take back our democracy from the corporate special interests, and that the points in the manifesto should be fully publicly funded elections, single payer or a strong public option that can lead to it, real banking reform, an end to the wars, clean energy on a smart grid, fair trade and the EFCA.
If you need a volunteer to help organize it, write me at this address: angantyr@yahoo.com.
Just as the invention of the telephone made it unnecessary for people to write letters but still allowed them to do so, the creation of the Internet makes it possible for a great many people to exchange their views on this site and elsewhere.
You want us to take action so that Washington, DC will notice?
We did that. Last year.
We, en masse, voted for Obama.
How do you send a message any clearer than that? And the response from Washington, DC?
If this didn't catch their attention, how likely is it that a 60's-type protest is going to do it?
Many liberals and progressives are working with the technology that they have. Some, and apparently many, believe that they can accomplish more by using that techology.
Progressives do not necessarily affiliate with any party (since the Democrats especially since the inclusion of the DLC and New Democrats) do not represent the interests of progressives ... they just pay lip service to issues of peace, and social justice.
my.barackobama.com/page/community/blog/korkiemoorebruno
Somebody has to get the existing ORGANIZATIONS to unite and commit to this.
We've been exactly where citizens of a Democracy are supposed to be. We've been at the polls voting.
I lived through the 60's, when Americans were murdered for their beliefs and actions, the equal rights marches, the peace marches, the Watts and Chicago riots and burnings.
Do you really believe that shouting and violence are improvements on the democratic process in which citizens vote based on candidates' statements and promises, and that we, the citizens, have failed if those politicians turns out to be a liars and whores?
So your really think that a march is going to overcome the willingness of national, state, and local politicians to sell their souls to the highest bidder? Or that a march is going to get universal affordable health care when the last election didn’t?
About 30 years ago, there was a huge gay march on Washington. Organizers talked to experienced cops, etc. who worked thes types of mass demonstrations frequently, who said that the line of marchers that took hours to pass the capitol probably numbered around a million.
Then, on the news, the number was estimated at a few thousand, and the only pictures shown were of a few drag queens. If it even made it to the news in your state.
In France, anyone can drive or take a train to the capitol in a few hours. It is hard to fire people for taking part in a demonstration. The press there would not lie about the numbers, and slant the news against the demostrators.
In the USA, it turned out to be a waste of time, jobs, money, etc. for us.
However, I'll completely agree with you about the expense and jobs part. A lot of people are trying very hard to keep afloat and aren't thinking about possibly going under to attend a demonstration.
That being said, I still agree with Matt in that I wonder why there hasn't been a march. We have progressive organizations that we donate money to, many of which are better funded than a number of the organizations that came together worldwide to protest the Iraq War when it had pretty much become a done deal. That may not have prevented the war. But, the sight of over half a million in NYC alone on the streets in the freezing cold definitely changed the dynamics of public sentiment. You weren't finding fence sitters anymore.
So, why haven't some of these progressive organizations that solicit our donations and receive them come together to have a march on Washington and publicize it the same way the march on February 15, 2003 regarding the Iraq war? After all, that is their job. They have the time and duty to organize transportation and lodging, in addition to getting the appropriate permits. Perhaps nothing happened because it took awhile for the progressive movement to realize that Obama was not going to act in their interests if not pushed? I can't think of another reason.
And now yer upset that dems are losing support over this?
They compromised away what we were willing to march for , on the first day......, so, no......, we won't march for dems. We won't march for 'centrist' reforms that are nothing but gifts to the very corporate entities that put us in this situation for so many years.
I would march for single-payer, but, it's not on the table, that I wasn't invited to sit at .......,
And where's the seat we were promised? I'd like to hang it on my wall, so I remember what dems and this WH did to reforms and the processs to change the "Politics of the Past"......,
You know? The roundtable discussions. Back when it was still called healthCARE reform?
I never said in my post that 'I' was arrested and escorted out......,
what am I missing, here.....,? Better yet, where have you been.....,?
Try this one:
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/05/05-9
In a democracy, you take a seat at the table by taking a stand wherever you are.
In a democracy, every citizen is a stakeholder, but if we roll over on lies and fraud by government and business, we'll just get more.
If we've elected ruffians, we must replace them with people willing to work for us. Instead of accepting the norm of career officeholders, which makes our representatives vulnerable to corporate interests, we need to foster the concept of limited stints of service--two terms at most, for most.
Obama told us during the campaign that we'd have to hold his feet to the fire. It's time he felt the heat. It's time to make a public showing, and a genuine grassroots march on Washington is a great way to do it.
my.barackobama.com/page/community/blog/korkiemoorebruno
If you want to be taken seriously, you have to earn that treatment. No way to avoid that.