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Becoming Christian Mystics Again

Posted: 05/01/2011 8:46 pm

Albert Einstein was asked toward the end of his life if he had any regrets. He answered: "I wish I had read more of the mystics earlier in my life." This is a significant confession, coming as it does from one of the greatest geniuses of the 20th century, a man who moved beyond the modern science of Newton and ushered in a postmodern science and consciousness.

In the West, the modern age (meaning the 16th to mid-20th centuries) was not only ignorant of, but actually hostile to, mysticism. As Theodore Roszak has put it, "The Enlightenment held mysticism up for ridicule as the worst offense against science and reason." Still today, both education and religion are often hostile to mysticism. Fundamentalism by definition is antimystical or distorts mysticism, and much of liberal theology and religion is so academic and left-brained that it numbs and ignores the right brain, which is our mystical brain. Seminaries teach few practices to access our mysticism. This is why many find religion so boring -- it lacks the adventure and inner exploration that our souls yearn for. As St. John of the Cross said, "Launch out into the deep."

This launching into the depths -- into the deep ocean of the unconscious and of the Great Self, which is connected to all things and to the Creator -- often gets stymied by Western religious dogma, guilt trips and institutional churchiness. The mystic gets starved. Patriarchal culture by itself is unable to tap into the deep feminine aspects of Divine Wisdom and Compassion and the heart. But the mystics, male and female, do not present a one-sided reality, as Patriarchy does. The yin/yang, female/male dialectic is alive and well in the mystical tradition. God as Mother is honored along with God as Father. Through this, mystics seek wisdom, not mere knowledge.

The West remains so out of touch with its own mystical tradition that many Westerners seeking mysticism still feel they have to go East to find it. While this can work for many brave and generous individuals, it cannot work for the entire culture. Carl Jung warned us that "we westerners cannot be pirates thieving wisdom from foreign shores that it has taken them centuries to develop as if our own culture was an error outlived."

Is Western culture an "error outlived"? Or is there wisdom deep within our roots that can be accessed anew and that can give us strength and understanding at this critical time when so much is falling apart the world over, when climate change and destruction of the earth accelerates and so many species are disappearing, while our banking systems and economic belief systems, our forms of education and forms of worship, are failing?

I believe that there is great wisdom in our species and in Western spiritual traditions, but that this needs a new birth and a fresh beginning. As a Westerner I must begin where I stand within my own culture and its traditions. This is where the Christian Mystics come in. We in the West must take these insights into our hearts on a regular basis, allow them to play in the heart, and then take them into our work and citizenship and family and community. This is how all healthy and deep awakenings happen; they begin with the heart and flow out from there.

The crises we find ourselves in as a species require that as a species we shake up all our institutions -- including our religious ones -- and reinvent them. Change is necessary for our survival, and we often turn to the mystics at critical times like this. Jung said: "Only the mystics bring what is creative to religion itself." Jesus was a mystic shaking up his religion and the Roman empire; Buddha was a mystic who shook up the prevailing Hinduism of his day; Gandhi was a mystic shaking up Hinduism and challenging the British empire; and Martin Luther King Jr. shook up his tradition and America's segregationist society. The mystics walk their talk and talk (often in memorable poetic phraseology) their walk.

For instance, this being the season of Earth Day, we might listen to the 12th century Abbess Hildegard of Bingen who was an amazing musician, painter, healer, writer (she wrote 10 books), scientist and poet. She posits an erotic relationship between the Divine and nature when she says: "As the Creator loves his creation, so creation loves the creator. Creation, of course, was fashioned to be adorned, to be showered, to be gifted with the love of the creator. The entire world has been embraced by this kiss."

Fr. Bede Griffiths was an English Benedictine monk who spent 50 years in India living and building up an ashram that was Christian and, in many respects, Hindu. He wrote a number of books on the coming together of Eastern and Western mysticism. He writes:

"Perhaps this is the deepest impression left by life in India, the sense of the sacred as something pervading the whole order of nature. Every hill and tree and river is holy, and the simplest human acts of eating and drinking, still more of birth and marriage, have all retained their sacred character. ... It is there that the West need to learn form the East the sense of the 'holy,' of a transcendent mystery which is immanent in everything and which gives an ultimate meaning to life..."

Thomas Berry was an American priest in the Passionist Order who called himself a "geologian." A student of world religions and of contemporary science, he was a great ecological prophet as is clear in his books, The Dream of the Earth and The Great Work, where he warns of the work we must do to reinvent our educational, economic, political and religious systems if we are to be a sustainable species on this endangered planet. He writes:

"The human venture depends absolutely on this quality of awe and reverence and joy in the Earth and all that lives and grows upon the Earth. ... In the end the universe can only be explained in terms of celebration. It is all an exuberant expression of existence itself ... A way is opening for each person to receive the total spiritual heritage of the human community as well as the total spiritual heritage of the universe. Within this context the religious antagonisms of the past can be overcome, the particular traditions can be vitalized, and the feeling of presence to a sacred universe can appear once more to dynamize and sustain human affairs."

Deep down, each one of us is a mystic. When we tap into that energy we become alive again and we give birth. From the creativity that we release is born the prophetic vision and work that we all aspire to realize as our gift to the world. We want to serve in whatever capacity we can. Getting in touch with the mystic inside is the beginning of our deep service.

Matthew Fox is the author of 28 books including 'Original Blessing,' 'The Reinvention of Work,' 'The Hidden Spirituality of Men', and most recently 'Christian Mystics,' of which this post is an excerpt. Visit Matthew Fox online.

 

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08:26 AM on 05/08/2011
The mystics who have appealed to me have been "practical mystics," principally Meister Eckhart. The mystical experience indicates to us that there is another dimension in consciousness. The Principle Mystics of history - Christ and the Buddha - also told us there was another dimension. They gave us fundamental qualities needed to contact that dimension: desirelessness (Buddha) and a life with loving of neighbor plus seeking first the kingdom of God within (Christ). (Moses also gave us more basic requirements of contact.) We must achieve this consciousness dimension individually, but oddly, it is a dimension of selflessness and group/non-local consciousness.

By analogy, science is giving us verbiage for modern description of this consciousness dimension. I have always thought that science is evolving - but doing so while facing backwards. I have lately come to think the same about religion. Both these ways of knowing instruct us from past accumulati­ons, even if current work is being done. If the two ways of knowing just pooled their accumulate­d wisdom and metaphoric­ally turned around to face the direction we are going.

My theme for several years now has been that if we re-think "religion" in terms of analogy to what science is telling us about physical reality, we can begin to transcend what separates humans in their individual religious expression­s of a "to be discovered­" universal spirituali­ty. This would require a certain willingnes­s of both science and religion to compromise­. Language - terminolog­y - seems the best place to begin.
05:14 PM on 05/07/2011
Keep an eye out for the book Hellucination. It's one man's journey from childhood where he learns to become an atheist then realizes later in life, he never thought about it. He then takes massive amounts of LSD trying to find God but is manipulated by the Devil and reality begins to blend in to unreality then he finally mets God and is sent to Hell for a day. It's filled with intense observations and understandings and it pulls no punches. It's an adult book and I've been hearing about it thru the grapevine and it's exactly what this article is talking about. I heard the visit to Hell is so intense that it is strictly for adults but that goes without saying since drug addiction and insanity is involved. From what I have been reading, it's as if Hunter S. Thompson was writing Dante's Inferno while experiencing Jacob's Ladder. I hope it lives up to the hype!
01:15 AM on 05/08/2011
@ heneverdies- I'm not sure if you're saying LSD is a good or bad thing here in this post, but the fact of the matter is that psychedelic substances are actually one of if not the best way to get in touch with your true mystical nature. Sure its easy to disagree with this simply because it is a radical and virtually unknown belief, but in reality it is accepted by most scientists/psychologists and is FACT. (see next post for scientific evidence) Now don't get me wrong, I am not at all advocating or encouraging the use of so called "drugs". But for those who are responsible and are really trying to get to that state of being, psychedelic substances (Ayahuasca, sacred mushrooms, LSD etc) are the quickest and easiest way to get started on this spiritual journey. I'm sorry but you can not truly disagree with this if you haven't tried this for yourself, because if you have, you would without a doubt know EXACTLY what I'm talking about. Tribal shamans and mystics have practiced these spiritual techniques for thousands of years yet Western society has for the most part completely hidden this secret (for example when the first settlers of the new world (ex- Cortez ) got to Central and North America, the first thing they did was kill the spiritual teachers (shamans) of tribes. But please don't just take my word for it, look it up or yourself. (See next post continued).......
01:18 AM on 05/08/2011
(Continued from previous post)- Even according to a recent study at John Hopkins University, volunteers ingested "sacred mushrooms" in an experiment to see if there were any "spiritual/mystical" experiences produced by the ingestion of these "sacred mushrooms". According to the Scientists, "60 percent of the subjects described the effects of psilocybin (predominant chemical in psychedelic mushrooms) in ways that met criteria for a “full mystical experience”. Along with this "landmark discovery", they reported that 2 months later, "79 percent of subjects reported moderately or greatly increased well-being or life satisfaction compared with those given a placebo at the same test session". Now it is completely fine if you want or choose to disagree with me. But you can not disagree with evidence from a scientific study. If you're still having doubts, please check the website and then feel free to counter anything I have stated in this post- http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/press_releases/2006/07_11_06.html . Thanks
05:10 PM on 05/08/2011
You are saying that anyone who disagrees with you is basically in conflict with reality because your claims are backed up by science. (BTW even creationists make that claim)
But what are you actually saying ? That certain substances can induce states that are very similar to the mystical state ? I don't think anyone would want to disagree with that.
However, you go further and say that the use of these substances is the quickest and easiest way to get started on the spiritual journey. Am I wrong in thinking that it is the only way you have tried ?
One question that immediately comes to mind, mine anyway, is: why don't any of the geat spiritual teachers advocate this quickest and easiest way ? Why, in fact, do many warn against quick fixes and dependence on substances for spiritual experiences ? ''The path to God is not a circus.' (Yogananda)
Anyone who is serious about diving deep in to the ocean of Spirit, does well to realise the enormous powers lying dormant in us. Therefore, we want to develop our subtle faculties in an organic way, not jump in blindfolded. The subtle body needs to be able to adjust to, or prepare for, ever more intense experiences.
There is no doubt that an induced experience of expanded consciousness can function as an eyeopener and give a taste of what's in store in the Self. However, to see the use of substances as a spiritual path in itself, is
05:10 PM on 05/08/2011
You don't need to take it from me, but if you do you take it from someone who knows both worlds. Though, like you, I am not perse against the mentioned substances, I would never ever trade meditation for anything induced. Not if you gave me all the money in the world on top.
11:11 PM on 05/06/2011
I agree that there seems to be a disconnect in Western liberal religious traditions - the focus is on the head and not on the heart. But with such a loss of knowledge as how to access mysticism in "the Western tradition," how do we guide our congregations to get there? As Mr. Fox stated, so much of that knowledge seems to be lost to history, whereas Eastern religions have not lost their connection to mysticism on a daily basis.

So how do you get a congregation to encounter mysticism when they are not accustomed to it and when they assume that only Eastern religious practices can be mystical?
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quorthon
Big government IS the answer!
12:08 PM on 05/06/2011
Einstein was, as a point of fact, heavily influenced by Schopenhauer (a self-confessed atheist), who in turn was inspired by the German translations of Hindu and Buddhist texts. Einstein's theory that mass and energy are convertible was informed by Schopenhauer's theory of the Will (Wille) as the blindly striving 'stuff' underlying all phenomena (Vorstellung). And Schopenhauer's rather ambiguous suggestion that reality not only cannot be exhausively explained by way of reference to our representations (vorstellungen), but that there is something ineffable beyond the Will, must have really made an impression on the physicist (as it did on the young Wittgenstein, who made allusions to mysticism in the closing paragraphs of the Tracatus).
02:55 PM on 05/08/2011
quorthon,

It is interesting that Schopenhauer uses the term "Vorstellu­ng" which can translate to mean a mental projection or Vorstellu­ngen mental projections.

Danke,

Thanks for your interesting comment.
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HeevenSteven
20 Minutes into the future.
04:42 PM on 05/05/2011
"..the unconscious and of the Great Self, which is connected to all things and to the Creator"

I'm all for inner experience and mystery, but this too looks like dogma to me.
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TheWM
aka The Wrong Monkey
11:26 AM on 05/06/2011
Heeven, excuse me because this is a little off-topic, but under your name it says, "20 minutes into the future." and then a little lower than that it says, "19 hours ago (4:42 PM)"

Which is it?
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HeevenSteven
20 Minutes into the future.
12:41 PM on 05/06/2011
Beats me; I'm too dumb for space-time stuff. Usually 20 minutes past is just dawning on me, but a little embellishment on one's bio never hurts;-)
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MilesToGo
12:18 PM on 05/05/2011
Many of the comments on this thread are interesting, salient and insightful. The very term "mysticism" has become laden with a lot of modern baggage which misleads many, especially those that imagine all mysticism to be heterodox or a part of occult doctrines. All traditional religions--such as Christian, Islamic, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, Taoist, Confuscian, Shaman & Celtic--have esoteric, inner perspectives that reveal a similarity & Unity relative to the temporal and spiritual domains.

For any so interested, such similarities have been listed by a short article that was written by Huston Smith, titled "A Universal Grammar of World Religions," which has been published in several places since delivered at the Pacific School of Religion in 2005. It is also in the Appendix to Smith's autobiography "Tales of Wonder" (Harper, 2009) & retitled as "A Universal Grammar of Worldviews."
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gal416
is a Bible verse † † †
01:06 PM on 05/05/2011
"All traditiona­l religions-­-such as Christian"

That may have started with the Catholics during the Dark Ages when they made it mandatory, to become a saint, one had to perform x number of miracles.
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MilesToGo
01:43 PM on 05/05/2011
No...Esoteric, inner, or mystical perspectives and practices pre-date Medieval Christianity ("Dark Ages" is a misnomer for any who've studied the period.) The ecclesiastical rules for sainthood relate to institutionalized religion only, and are susceptible to fallibility, of course.

The esoterism of genuine traditional mysticism has primordial roots, as seen in the writings of ancient Egyptian priests (Hermes Trismiestegores, for example) and even others prior from all corners of the globe. Black Elk of the Ogalalla Sioux showed a mystical praxis that was likely known for thousands of years.
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AZLibDem
If you're speeding, you're an "illegal"
10:22 AM on 05/05/2011
"When, after dinner, she explained to Elsa how a friend had been talking about Professor Einstein's theory "especially in its mystical aspect," Frau Einstein broke into laughter with the words: "Mystical! Mystical! My husband mystical!" echoing his own reply to a Dutch lady who in the German embassy in The Hague said that she liked his mysticism. "Mysticism is in fact the only reproach that people cannot level at my theory," he had replied. "

- Einstein :The Life and Times, p.275
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TheWM
aka The Wrong Monkey
10:12 AM on 05/06/2011
And are we sure that this quotation from some book whose author you don't even mention is any more reliable than the quotation from Einstein which begins Matthew Fox's essay?

I googled, and apparently you're referring to a book by Ronald W Clark. Then I googled Ronald W Clark. Seems he wrote a lot of biographies. (And some alternate-reality fiction, which I find hilariously appropriate to this discussion.)

Maybe Clark was a serious author and the anecdote from his book is genuine. I don't know. At this point I'm not inclined to trust any anecdotes about Einstein without researching them. I'd rather stick to things which Einstein wrote. and, as I've often said before about his writing, he was brilliant on the subject of physics and ambiguous on religious (spiritual, etc) subjects.
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AZLibDem
If you're speeding, you're an "illegal"
02:18 PM on 05/06/2011
You raise a valid point; fortunately, Clarke provides citations, and supports the quote with G.K.A. Bell's "Randall Davidson, Archbishop of Canterbury", page 1052.
08:21 AM on 05/09/2011
Your quote doesn't invalidate Matthew Fox's. People aren't static, Einstein lived 19 more years after his second wife passed away. It is even possible that his wife told him about the encounter, and that got him thinking about mysticism, so it is good you brought it up in this topic.
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AZLibDem
If you're speeding, you're an "illegal"
10:18 AM on 05/10/2011
No, it doesn't, but Einstein's letter to Gutkind, written a year before his death, is even more emphatically anti-superstition.

Again, I am not saying the quote by Fox didn't happen; I'm saying it is anomalous, and doesn't seem to have appeared before. This is why I am asking for a source, and why I want to see it in context.
09:37 AM on 05/05/2011
I like this article and am in sympathy with what I take to be its basic claims. But the more I think about it, the more questions that begin to arise. For one, I wonder why the term "mysticism" is here modified by "Christian." What is it that characterizes a specifically Christian form of mysticism? Does it retain the familiar Christian feature of exclusivity--the claim that Christianity alone constitutes a legitimate spiritual path? For me, that would be a non-starter. I suspect this would not be Matthew Fox's view, but would like to hear it spelled out explicity.

Second, I wonder about the claims that there is "great wisdom...in the Western spiritual tradition" and that it is within our own culture that we should begin. I agree with both these assertions; it seems a mistake to completely reject our cultural inheritance, however misguided it may appear. But there's a leap made from "our Western tradition" to "Christian tradition." While Christianity has obviously played a huge role in the West, many of us are not Christians; Christianity is NOT our natural starting point. After all, the Western spiritual tradition is not just Christian, but an amalgam of a great many influences--Greek, Jewish, African, Indian, etc. Personally, these latter influences have been far and away the most important.

So I'm all for mysticism. But I think that what might potentially be included as part of a mystical spiritual path should be left completely wide open.
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Elijah A Alexander Jr
Elijah NatureBoy
08:21 AM on 05/05/2011
My experiences suggest anytime anyone becomes a mystic they are not segregated into a single religion but integrated with earth. [I can't say existence because my experiences are limited to earth.]

The mystic is one who seeks within what is seen without of themselves. They becomes mystics because of the integration of the external with tie internal, by eliminating the abstracts which begin with good and evil for finding everything's purpose. The mystic walks alone because they are an integrated being recognizing every attribute of earth is within them.

Therefore, the mystic doesn't claim a religion except by the definition of "the way of life which teaches one the purpose for all things." Being so they have no attachments and don't reject but recognize everything and seeks their purposes while giving entitled respect to religion, nation, ethnic, genders and sexual orientation related to man and all things to other life types.

Therefore, I would rather have seen your article entitled "Becoming Mystics" without segregating it into a religious name. It was well written otherwise, saying begin where one is and work from there into becoming the whole we can become, a mystic.
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gal416
is a Bible verse † † †
12:19 AM on 05/05/2011
I watched a excellent documentary on netflix the other evening entitled "The Quantum Activist". As Dr. Amit Goswami spoke, at one point I couldn't help but think of something that Jesus said.

Matthew 17:20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

When you consider the mass of a mustard seed and the total amount of energy stored in that mass, it makes me wonder if Jesus wasn't giving some insight into quantum physics. But then again, you can't have everybody flinging mountains around can you?

We are at a stage of mental evolution where we try to solve every problem by our rationality and this is not enough.
- Quantum Physicist Amit Goswami, PhD.
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gal416
is a Bible verse † † †
12:53 AM on 05/05/2011
mea culpa, The last statement should be in quotes.
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J-Ho
Fancy boys put Happy Bunny quotes in their bio
11:36 AM on 05/05/2011
sounds like a scientist is trying to find a middle ground between reality and his up-brought religious beliefs. Not all scientists are atheists like the Right try to assume. yes, sometimes irrational thought will allow us to arrive at the correct hypothesis, but that doesn't mean Christian god is the reason..
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Klarsonent
Semi-retired landlady, small business entrepreneur
12:15 AM on 05/05/2011
Great article by Matthew Fox. I'm inspired to share one of my poems:

I’m far away near the bay
My skin is meshed in Sea spray.
The breeze cools my temple
With fingers quite gentle,
Encircling me round like the softness of down.

Relinquishment is my name now;
I seek to be free,
While bits and pieces erode by the Sea.
Every niche and crevice, each hollow and cave,
Enraptured, invigorated, if I be so brave.

The Sea rises swiftly; my noontide complete,
While I sit abashed, unscathed by conceit.
I take my leave quietly; my lips make no sound;
Though flushed by the trumpet,
A mystery still bound.
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Big Richard
Stuck in the middle with you
06:34 PM on 05/04/2011
Don't be surprised if, sometime soon, science provides a workable description of a Universe which exists in 10 dimensions. When it does, the medium for spirituallity will be evident in the interaction of these 10 dimensions. Albert is probably looking down at us now and laughing, because, in reality, the 10 dimensional Universe solution is quite simple and elegant.
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meglon978
Beware of gifts bearing Greeks.
01:08 PM on 05/07/2011
11.
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CPAwADD
Always look on the bright side of life.
05:46 PM on 05/04/2011
One of the great conceits of the rational mind is that we are now more logical and less error prone. The sum total of all that we don't know is vast, and it's what we think we know that gets us in trouble.
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Saidas
10:25 AM on 05/05/2011
Well said!
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J-Ho
Fancy boys put Happy Bunny quotes in their bio
11:38 AM on 05/05/2011
it's those who fear to face the reality of our knowledge and push back and radicalize to keep their beliefs in the forefront that will get us in trouble.
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DIridescent
.
04:32 PM on 05/04/2011
Isn't the basic idea here to formulate a personal religion outside of organized religion? To in effect transcend all of the specifics of religious doctrine? I wish somewhere in these thirteen paragraphs about mysticism there was at least one attempt to define what mysticism is, or isn't. Or is that the point? That it can be anything, so long as it isn't dogmatic? In which case...

If mysticism can apply to all religions it is somehow transcending them all, too. If you can transcend the specifics of all religions you are in effect transcending all specific concepts of God and creator. In which case I don't think the wisdom of mysticism requires belief in God.
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David Silvey
Writer/Bleeding Heart Liberal
08:31 PM on 05/04/2011
It never ceases to amaze me that people constantly try to drag Albert Einstein kicking and screaming into religion based on a few words that he may or may not have said. I have hear these stories all my life and they do not fit the man . Maybe he was saying that he wished he had read books on mysticism earlier so he could have discarded their implications as a young age. Religion, mysticism and Einstein are a very unlikely trio.
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DIridescent
.
09:49 PM on 05/04/2011
It is standard practice for most religious debates to misquote somebody, or change definitions midway through conversations. I suppose for that reason it doesn't surprise me too much.

Although Einstein tends, from what I can tell, to fall on the agnostic side of the spectrum with regards to what is knowable, that makes him no less of an atheist. He was very clear about being an atheist.
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Klarsonent
Semi-retired landlady, small business entrepreneur
12:18 AM on 05/05/2011
My, my; are you projecting your own bias onto Albert Einstein here?
07:19 AM on 05/05/2011
There may be a tension between mysticism and organized religion, but I do not believe that mysticism necessarily exists outside of any established context: Hinduism and Buddhism, e.g., are both mystical and organized religions.

Some kind of rough characterization of mysticism is in order here if this article is to have any real content. I would suggest, as a startting point, that what characterizes mysticism essentially is the view that the godhead is within us--perhaps within all phenomena--rather than being external and inaccesible. That seems to be the core idea; the other common features of mysticism--the shifting and multi-faceted nature of the divine, for example--would seem to more or less follow from this notion.
07:36 AM on 05/05/2011
I should add "non-dualism"--the view that there is no essential or ultimate division between me and you, or between all things--as a key, further consequence of myticism's core notion of an immanent godhead.
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DIridescent
.
12:38 AM on 05/06/2011
I see. So even if the term gets misused a lot, the basic idea behind all forms of mysticism is that authority for religious experience (whatever that is) has been dissolved and equally distributed.

So Einstein is not a mystic, his ideas just have mystical characteristics. He's not reacting to any specific organized religion as mystics tend to do (no belief in God, no underpinning of organized religion), and yet he expresses a broad understanding of the manner in which scientific exploration pushes our culture as a whole away from organized religious authority. I suppose there is a "non-dualist" quality to his insistence that no individual or organized religion has an authoritative hold on how to make meaningful sense of the universe.
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02:23 PM on 05/04/2011
"Einstein mentioned God and spirituality. And then there is Quantum Mechanics. Therefore, there is a Creator and invisible spirits flying around in the sky"

The above is a typical argument presented by "believers".

What I find hilarious is that many of the believers deride the scientific method and claim that it doesn't lead to "real truth", even as they try to gain credibility for their belief by mentioning science and quoting scientists (incorrectly, if necessary).
05:24 PM on 05/08/2011
I agree with your last sentence. At the same time, the way scientifically minded people - or people that like to think they are rational and in control and won't be fooled - make statements about religious expereinces they never had, is equally hilarious. They assume that all believers are irrational and come up empty handed when asked to discuss the spiritual journey. You agree with that too, don't you ?
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08:37 PM on 05/08/2011
ra·tion·al (rsh-nl)
adj.
1. Having or exercising the ability to reason.
2. Of sound mind; sane.
3. Consistent with or based on reason; logical: rational behavior. See Synonyms at logical.
4. Mathematics Capable of being expressed as a quotient of integers.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/rational
----------------------
When they are called irrational, it refers to (3) above. I can see why some would feel insulted if they relate it to (1) and (2).
Now, I don't know what religious experiences you are talking about, but many can be reproduced in the laboratory by electric and/or chemical stimulation of certain parts of the brain. So, while those are "real" in the sense that a person feels them, but have nothing to do with gods or spirits or any of that.
But, hey, feel free to laugh at those rational and scientifically minded. In fact, go to a major international conference on some topic in Physics, and just start rolling on the floor, laughing. :-)