The Good Kind of Rape
"I know it wasn't rape-rape. I think it was something else, but I don't think it was rape-rape." - Whoopi Goldberg
Maybe Whoopi Goldberg can take a look at the following transcript and then explain to us which kind of rape this is. Is it a rape-rape? Or is it just a plain old, garden variety rape?
The following is from the transcripts of the 1977 Grand Jury hearing of Roman Polanski. I skip spaces when I jump forward in the document. To see the whole thing, go here.
Though she's clearly received legal advice, as anyone with an attorney would have, Polanski admitted to sex with a minor as a condition of a plea agreement which was never accepted by the judge, who warned him (also found in transcript) several times that "the Court has not made any decision as to what sentence you will receive." Polanski fled before that sentence was handed down.
Q: Samantha Gailey, how old are you?
A: 13
Q: You reside with your mother and your sister at a residence in Woodland Hills?
A: Yeah.
Q: What did [Polanski] say to you that indicated to you he had an interest in photographing you?
A: He showed me a Vogue Magazine that he had done and he said, "Would you like me to take your pictures?" And I went, "Yes."
Q: At any time did you pose without a top?
A: Yes.
Q: Was that at his request or did you volunteer to do that?
A: That was at his request.
Q: What did Mr. Polanski say...
A: He said, "Here, take off your top now." And I thought they were for, you know, the shots that you got so you don't have anything on your shoulders.
Q: So what did you do?
A: I took off my shirt.
Q: When you went home did you tell your mother that he had taken photographs of you without a top?
A: No.
Later she goes on to talk about how she was going to tell Polanski that she didn't want to take any more pictures. But he came back another day and got her, rushing her because the sun was going down and they had to get pictures at sunset. And she went.
Q: At any time did Mr. Polanski offer you something to drink?
A: Yes. I think I said I was thirsty. And he went in the kitchen and this refrigerator, it was full of juice and wine and soda and all this stuff. And he got out -- he got a bottle of champagne. And he said, "Should I open it?" And I went, "I don't care," you know.
Q: How much did you drink?
A: I don't know. I had been finishing my glass and I was using it to pose in the pictures with. So I have no idea how much I drank.
Q: So after you had the drink of champagne, you went and took pictures?
A: Yes.
Q: After taking pictures in the patio area, what happened?
A: We went inside and he started playing with his camera again. I think he changed lenses or something. And then we took some more pictures right inside the patio door.
Q: Was that wearing the same outfit that you had on when you arrived, the blue jeans?
A: No. I didn't have a shirt on. I was standing behind a lamp.
Q: Was that at his request or did you volunteer to do that?
A: That was at his request.
Q: After taking those photographs, what happened?
A: He went to show me this Jacuzzi that Jack Nicholson has.
Q: What happened after he showed you the Jacuzzi?
A: He said, "I want to take some pictures of you in this."
Q: In what?
A: In the Jacuzzi.
Q: What happened out there after he indicated he wished to take pictures of you in the Jacuzzi?
A: We went inside and called my mother.
Q: When you say "we called," did you call or did Mr. Polanski call?
A: He told me to and I talked and then he talked and then I talked again.
Q: What did you tell your mother?
A: She goes, "Are you all right?" I went, "Uh huh." And she says, "Do you want me to come pick you up?" And I went, "No." And he said we'd be home kind of late because it had already gotten dark out.
Q: After talking to your mother on the telephone, what happened?
A: We went out and I got in the Jacuzzi.
Q: So you went outside -
A: No, wait. We went into the bathroom before and he took this little yellow thing. I don't know what it was. It was some kind of container. And he had -- he walked in before me. When I walked in he had the container. And he had a pill broken into three parts. And he said, "Is this a Quaalude?" And I went, "Yes." And he says, "Oh, do you think I will be able to drive if I take it?" And I went, "I don't know," you know. He says, "Well, I guess I will," and he took it. And he says, "Do you want part?" And I went, "No." And he says -- oh, at that time I went "Okay," because -- I don't know.
Q: Why did you take it?
A: I don't know. I think I must have been pretty drunk or else I wouldn't have.
Q: How did he get you to take that tablet?
A: I took it with a swallow of champagne.
Q: What happened after you took the tablet?
A: I went into the kitchen, and I don't know why, but I thought if I ate -- I realized I was drinking and then I took that. And I then really got upset at myself so I started eating.
Q: After eating in the kitchen what did you do?
A: He called my name and I went out and got in the Jacuzzi.
Q: When you got in the Jacuzzi, what were you wearing?
A: I was going to wear my underwear, but he said for me to take them off.
Q: What happened when you got in the Jacuzzi?
A: He took some pictures.
Q: At some time did he stop taking photographs of you in the Jacuzzi?
A: Yes.
Q: What did he do after that?
A: He said that he was going to get in.
Q: What did you see him do?
A: He went in the bathroom and he came out and got in.
Q: When he came out was he wearing anything?
A: No.
Q: Before he went in was he wearing anything?
A: Yes.
Q: What did Mr. Polanski do when he got into the Jacuzzi?
A: He got in and he went down to the deepest part of it.
Q: What did you do?
A: I went up to the other end of it.
Q: What happened then?
A: He goes, "Come down here."
And I said, "No. No, I got to get out."
And he said, "Just come down here a second."
So I finally went down. And then he went -- there was a lot of the Jacuzzi jets. He goes, "Doesn't it feel better down here?"
And he was like holding me up because it is almost over my head. And I went, Yeah, but I better get out." So I got out.
There's a whole thing here where she gets a towel, he gets in the pool, tells her to get in to. She says no but he pleads with her and she dives in, swims the length of it, gets out and goes to the bathroom. And she makes up a story that she has asthma because she wants to leave. She doesn't have asthma and never had.
Q: Did you see Mr. Polanski then?
A: Yes, he came into the bathroom.
Q: What happened at that time?
A: He asked me if I was all right, if my asthma was bad.
Q: What did you say?
A: I said that I wanted to go home because I needed to take my medicine.
Q: What did Mr. Polanski say?
A: He said, "Yeah, I'll take you home soon."
Q: What did you do?
A: I told him -- I said that I wanted to get -- I wanted to go home. I said, "No, I have to go home now."
Q: What did Mr. Polanski say?
A: He told me to go in the other room and lie down.
Q: When he said, "In the other room," was there an adjoining room to the bathroom?
A: No, it was at the end of the hall. He went outside the bathroom. It was right a few feet away.
Q: What kind of room is that?
A: I'm not sure. There's no lights on in it. And it looked like a master bedroom. It had a bed and a couch and a TV.
Q: What did you do when he said, "Let's go in the other room?"
A: I was going, "No, I think I better go home," because I was afraid. So I just went and I sat down on the couch.
Q: What were you afraid of?
A: Him.
Q: What were you wearing at that time?
A: My underwear and a towel.
Q: At some time had you put on your panties?
A: Yes, I did that right away when I got into the bathroom.
Q: What happened when you sat down on the couch?
A: He sat down beside me and asked me if I was okay.
Q: What did you say, if anything?
A: I said, "No."
Q: What did he say?
A: He goes, "Well, you'll be better." And I go, "No, I won't. I have to go home."
Q: What happened then?
A: He reached over and he kissed me. And I was telling him, "No," you know, "Keep away." But I was kind of afraid of him because there was no one else there.
Q: What was said after you indicated that you wanted to go home when you were sitting on the couch?
A: He said, "I'll take you home soon."
Q: Then what happened?
A: And then he went down and he started performing cuddliness.
Q: What does that mean?
A: It means he went down on me or he placed his mouth on my vagina.
Q: What did he do when he placed his mouth on your vagina?
A: He was just like licking and I don't know. I was ready to cry. I was kind of... I was going, "No. Come on. Stop it." But I was afraid.
Q: Why do you believe you were under the influence at that time?
A: I can barely remember anything that happened.
Q: Is there any other reason?
A: No. I was kind of dizzy, you know, like things were kind of blurry sometimes. I was having trouble with my coordination like walking and stuff.
Q: How long did Mr. Polanski have his mouth on your vagina?
A: A few minutes.
Q: What happened after that?
A: He started to have intercourse with me.
Q: What do you mean intercourse?
A: He placed his penis in my vagina.
Q: What did you say, if anything, before he did that?
A: I was mostly just on and off saying, "No, stop." But I wasn't fighting really because I, you know, there was no one else there and I had no place to go.
Q: What did he say, if anything.
A: He didn't answer me when I said, "No."
Q: At this time were your panties off?
A: Yes.
Q: How were your panties taken off?
A: He had taken them off.
Q: When was that?
A: After he kissed me he got a hold of them and he pulled them off.
Q: At any time did he ask you when your period was?
A: Yes.
Q: When was that?
A: While he was having intercourse with me.
Q: Did he ask you about being on the pill?
A: Yes.
Q: When did he say that?
A: At the same time.
Q: What did he say?
A: He asked, he goes, "Are you on the pill?" And I went, "No." And he goes, "When did you last have your period?" And I said, "I don't know. A week or two. I'm not sure."
Q: And what did he say?
A: He goes, "Come on, you have to remember." And I told him I didn't.
Q: Did he say anything after that?
A: Yes. He goes, "Would you want me to go in through your back?"
And I went, "No."
Q: Did he say anything else?
A: No.
Q: How long did he have his penis in your vagina?
A: I can't remember how long, but not a very long time.
Q: Had you had sexual intercourse with anyone before.
A: Yes.
Q: Approximately how many times?
A: Twice.
Q: What happened after he says, "DO you want me to -- " Was it go through your back?
A: Yes.
Q: What happened then?
A: I think he said something like right after I said I was not on the pill, right before he said, "Oh, I won't come inside of you then." And I just went -- and he goes -- and then he put me -- wait. Then he lifted up my legs farther and he went in through my anus.
Q: When you say he went in your anus, what do you mean by that?
A: He put his penis in my butt.
Q: Did he say anything at that time?
A: No.
Q: Did you resist at that time?
A: A little bit, but not really because - (pause)
Q: Because what?
A: Because I was afraid of him.
For my other comment about this story go HERE.
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This rape involved the seduction of a child by an adult who encouraged her to drink alcohol and take a drug. Why does the fact that the adult is a movie director make a difference to anyone?
Whoopi was obviously trying to make the distinction between "illegal sexual intercourse" (called statutory rape in some states; that is, "consensual" sexual relations with an adolescent minor) with sexual assault (usually called rape).
Polanski pleaded guilty to the former; the DA agreed to drop charges to the latter. Polanski was never found guilty of sexual assualt (Whoopi's "rape rape").
Now, Whoopi did a very bad job of making her (and the American legal system's) distinction, but her intentions seem clear enough.
so are you saying it was CONSENSUAL?...by reading that transcript, does that look CONSENSUAL??
and he still fled from justice...what a FOOL...he AND Whoopi, whose daughter was pregnant at 13...which i'm believing was CONSENSUAL...
good Lord!
See Jeff Norman's Profile
Whoopi expressed no opinion about what happened between Polanski and the girl. Why should she? The girl claimed she resisted, and Polanski claimed the sex was consensual. How would Whoopi know who's telling the truth? Her comment was merely a reference to the crime to which Polanski pled guilty.
And he never paid the victim the agreed settlement either. Or at least, there's no evidence of paying. Last I heard he owed her like $600,000+ because of interest.
Did any of you - including the author of this piece - actually see the footage from The View? Whoopi made those comments in the context of clarifying what Polanski was CHARGED with, not in terms of defining the actual act itself. I agree that the words "it's not rape-rape" sound terrible - as if there were any distinction that any reasonable person could make - but she was attempting to clarify whether he had been CHARGED with statutory rape or "rape-rape", not whether he had committed one or the other. Rather than being ignorant of the facts - which she has been accused of - she was making it very clear to the other members of the panel and to the audience that they should all have the exact facts of the case straight before passing comment. Perhaps her critics should do the same?
I heard a tape, she sounded like she was defending Polanski. How can you defend anything he did?
I am sure she would think otherwise if it happened to her daughter or granddaughter.
Bingo. sickening isn't it?
her daughter was pregnant at 13...just saying
Whoopi has consistently shown that she is not in touch with most Americans. This is just one more instance of that. If this was her daughter, would she think it was no big deal? I doubt it. Better yet, what if the teen was the daughter of a star, and the rapist was just some guy? I wonder how fast her tune would change.
i am boycotting The View and all Whoopi's movies. I am disgusted with her.
Whoopi should be ashamed of herself. I have lost all respect for her.
No matter how you slice it, Polanski took advantage of that girl.
Think so? At the LEAST he took advantage of her. He raped her.
there is a whole lot more important stuff going on the country right now that demands serious attention, get it?
No.
The transcript sounds exactly like a 13-year old girl in a situation where she has no control and doesn't know what's really happening. No question Polanski raped her and should have to face up to the legal consequences regardles of his past, talent or the 'importance' of his defenders.
I still have to ask, where were this child's parents? What kind of mother would leave a 13-year old alone with a 44 year-old man doing a questionable photo shoot. Since this event, our culture has only intensified its celebrity seeking. How many children are still victimized in this way in an effort by adults to get some kind of toehold on 'fame'.
This hideous crime happened during a very dangerous time period for children. No one gave a toss what happened to children back then. This was a time period that made movies like The Exorcist and The Omen franchise (compare that to the baby-friendly Baby Boom ad Two Men and a Baby of the '80s). Apartment buildings and complexes passed laws saying children couldn't live there. Parents were off drinking and having swinging parties, more concerned about their own sexual freedom than taking care of their children. Children were also portrayed as smoking hucksters (Paper Moon) and prostitutes (Taxi Driver). This was the dawn of the latch-key kids. Look at these generations that raised these kids, they still don't like them generally. They move to the only places where children still aren't allowed - senior enclaves - so they don't have to hear kids riding their bikes or pay local taxes to fund their schools. And heaven forbid they have health care at the expense of their Medicare!
I was a child when this happened, and what I was basically told was that he had sex with a girl who turned out to be younger than she looked. Poor Roman Polanski, duped by a 13-year-old who looked 16. Boo hoo.
It took another time and place that looks kindly and protectively towards children for the truth to come out and justice called for. Unfortunately, there are still too many child rape apologists out there...
Yeah, but he still shouldn't be punished, because he's made some good movies...is that it, Hollywood?
exactly! now you understand ... we like him so it's okay!
I'm sure Goldberg will eventually apologize for commenting when she was ignorant of the facts.
She's probably mooching for a part in one of his future movies like the rest of the salivating glitterati.
"he started performing cuddliness"
Damn.
That one word -- "cuddliness" -- sums up the entire episode: a 13 year old who has no business knowing what the word she is attempting to pronounce is and botching it up with a pronunciation that includes the word "cuddling": something that most newly-pubescent girls hope and imagine the sexual experience is going to be (oral or otherwise).
i almost lost it there. that's one of the saddest things i've read recently.
Goldberg said something stupid. We get it.
"To err is human. To rub one's face in it is divine."
-anonymous fortune cookie
She says something stupid on a daily basis. Isn't that why people tune in to the View?, to see has beens and never weres express their opinions on subjects they know little about?
She said something unconscionable.
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