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Mikko Alanne

Mikko Alanne

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Have Animal Rights Groups Finally Lost It? Should Fish Have Rights? (VIDEO)

Posted: 01/24/11 01:41 PM ET

The last few years have seen a strong rise in awareness of how the animals we raise for food are treated. Numerous laws have been passed in several states in an attempt to make life less hideous for animals in factory farms.

California's Prop 2, which passed in 2008, not only did away with gestation crates for pigs and painfully small crates for veal calves, it also was the first law to specifically address birds. Hens, raised in California for their eggs, will no longer be subjected to life inside battery cages. Animal advocates saw the passage of Prop 2 as a huge victory, and it is.

But what about the sea animals we eat? What about fish? Should we take their suffering into consideration? Are they just seafood, or should fish have rights?

I can see heads at Fox News exploding.

But if you think only rights here that matter are fishing rights, consider this:

Mercy For Animals, a Chicago-based non-profit group, just released a hidden camera investigation inside a Dallas county fish slaughter facility called Catfish Corner. The video is stark and harrowing. It shows workers using pliers to pull the skin off fish while they're still alive, and live fish having their bodies cut in half and their heads ripped off.

The most recent scientific evidence strongly suggests that fish feel and process pain much as mammals do. So isn't this a clear case of cruelty to animals?

Mercy For Animals approached the Dallas County District Attorney's office with their video to ask just that question. The D.A. refused to file charges, citing the limitations of animal cruelty laws of Texas.

Texas isn't the only culprit, it turns out. There are no laws in the United States that define cruel treatment of marine life.

So to answer the question: yes. Fish are animals, and animals have rights. Especially the right not to be skinned alive, or to be cut in half while fully conscious.

 
 
 
 
 
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PatA
Juan Martinez! Rock Star!
08:37 PM on 02/03/2011
I grew up on a ranch near a big river. My dad took me gigging with him one night. Picture a narrow pitch-fork with hooks on the ends of the tines. I had never gone with him and like a kid, I begged and he let me go.

He used a light to attract the fish but the first thing it attracted was water moccasins. After the excitement of that, he got down to catching fish. He "gigged" a big one and as it came out of the water, it cried out. I have no idea how the sound was made but it came from that fish. I had him take me back to the house. I haven't fished since then.
04:39 PM on 02/01/2011
Social ethics proceed from preexisting ethics rather than ex nihilo, society has now looked to its ethic for humans, appropriately modified, to find moral categories applicable to animals. Most effective would be laws to inform and allow a fair choice for our children and the education of those choices for children. We vote on these issues and create our own legislative process by what we choose to buy, eat ourselves and or feed our pets. It's astonishing what so many vegetarians and vegans feed their pets. That's inconsistent. Vegan "coke-heads",.. that one's flummoxing too. Investigate legal records of ALDF's communication director. And I don't think "hottie" PETA activists in a contraversial Super Bowl ad or otherwise campaigning on the street really get any informative message out to children other than more oppression and embarrassment in similarity to fashion ads sharing that you've got to be thin to be in. This Mercy for Animals produced video works.
03:44 PM on 02/01/2011
Should it be illegal for dolphins to have sex in the open ocean?, or flowers to show their blossoms?
http://www.livescience.com/animals/090325-animal-sex.html
It's our moral obligation to protect all species, we'll be gone soon and our cognitive enterprise has no right to subject them to our inconsistent ethical atrocities we already inflict upon our own species. They'll continue without the necessity for courtrooms and cops. The fittest survive, that is the natural law. To each their own. There is no kosher way to kill, and you cannot put a Great White Shark in Jail. We have the power to preserve harmony and balance on this planet for the time that we're left here. A blip in the spectrum. The preservation of all species requires an ecoli breakout upon humans perhaps, we're just too greedy. We can start by appreciating that when flesh eats flesh it should be a fair fight, between animals themselves. Plants will die and can be harvested fairly before death. Eating animals is basically inhuman since we've evolved to survive without them as a food source. It's pathetic. Methane production from farmed animals contributes to global warming at a rate of diminishing returns greater than any benefit from the process to us and a sustainable planet. The approach of PETA campaign activists is atrocious. The issue of enforcing laws and governing life with guns is archaic. Respect and give back for what we take. Empathetic consciousness.
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SweetJudith
02:44 PM on 02/01/2011
Thank you Mikko, I've watched so many video's of fish being skinned alive and there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that they suffer greatly! I can't even imagine what these animals go through once a hook finds it's way to them and then being skinned alive, it rips me apart. Thank you so much for posting this.
Vegan for Life!
01:10 AM on 01/28/2011
Regarding the 'do fish feel pain?' story. Is there really any way to monitor this? If you are a living, breathing being and you get hooked in the mouth, or the eye, you get yanked out of the water - your environment - unable to breathe and have your head banged against something hard, or cut off entirely, it's London to a brick you're going to feel something. Bags not to be reborn as an animal - humans are just too cruel and insensitive. I promise to be good for the rest of my life so I don't come back as a calf in a feed lot, or a chicken force fed so I grow huge breasts and end up in a bucket of Kentucky Fr*ed.
05:24 PM on 01/26/2011
Actually, quite sadly, they don't have the legal right to those things. Not to be skinned alive, etcetera. You are arguing that as living creatures, they have inborn rights. But sadly, the only rights we selfish humans observe are those codified in law made by humans for humans, and we are a cruel careless species that cares only to plunder the planet for profit.
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jimboy71
Hen Diapheron Heautoi
04:03 PM on 01/26/2011
"Fish are animals, and animals have rights".

Please point to which constitution declares this to be the case. While I don't condone cruelty, this is patent malarkey. Animals don't have rights. Sorry.
01:14 AM on 01/28/2011
They breathe, they bleed, they have hearts and lungs just as we do. Ever seen a feed lot with calves crying for their mothers and pigs in such small pens rolling on their offspring because they can't move. I have, and as far as I'm concerned animals should have rights because humans just don't care - we'll eat anything regardless of the suffering.
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jimboy71
Hen Diapheron Heautoi
10:06 AM on 01/28/2011
You mistake my argument against animal "rights" as an argument for animal cruelty. One doesn't necessarily entail the other. I am quite rightly horrified by factory farming practices, and I try as much as humanly possible to patronize ethical producers...of all my food, vegetable and animal.
Genders
Love, Tolerance, Enlightenment
09:07 PM on 01/25/2011
Agreed. Fish feel pain. Let's stop pretending they don't. We have fished out 90% of the fish population. Think of what we could do if we maintained that population!
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sabelmouse
i love to tumble , ask me why .
06:40 AM on 01/26/2011
these are different issues though. over fishing has nothing to do with wether fish feel pain and vice versa.
Genders
Love, Tolerance, Enlightenment
04:21 PM on 01/26/2011
Humane fishing would probably have lower yield.
01:16 AM on 01/28/2011
Agreed again. We need to sustain the numbers that are left. Who was it said, "When the last fish is pulled out of the sea...." etc. An American Indian sage who really knew what he was talking about. We are rapidly learning that we can't eat money.
07:02 PM on 01/25/2011
Any living being that feeels pain deserves to be protected. Not only do fish feel pain but scientific studies show THEY THINK. People really need to stop thinking we are the only ones on this planet that matter, that think or feel. EVOLVE.
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SweetJudith
02:46 PM on 02/01/2011
You're absolutely right Sheila.........
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Just4theHalibut
06:53 PM on 01/25/2011
Sorry, but fish do not have the same brain structures that mammals do. THAT is a scientific fact.
The term nociception is used to refer to the detection of injurious stimuli by the nervous
system, injury which may or may not lead to the psychological experience of pain.
Nociception is a universal characteristic of animal life. It is how animals avoid situations that could injure or kill them. In contrast, pain is a psychological experience of the conscious mind. The conscious mind resides in part of the brain that fish and marine invertebrates do not possess.
Cutting a fish's head off is the single most effective way to kill it (or you can cut its gills and let it bleed out). If there is a more "humane" way, please tell us.
09:56 PM on 01/24/2011
"We must fight against the spirit of unconscious cruelty with which we treat the animals. Animals suffer as much as we do. True humanity does not allow us to impose such sufferings on them. It is our duty to make the whole world recognize it. Until we extend our circle of compassion to all living things, humanity will not find peace." ~Albert Schweitzer

"If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men." ~St. Francis of Assisi

Until he extends the circle of his compassion to all living things, man will not himself find peace. It is man's sympathy with all creatures that first makes him truly a man.
At the same time the man who has become a thinking being feels a compulsion to give to every will-to-live the same reverence for life that he gives to his own. He experiences that other life in his own. He accepts as being good: to preserve life, to promote life, to raise to its highest value life which is capable of development; and as being evil: to destroy life, to injure life, to repress life which is capable of development. This is the absolute, fundamental principle of the moral, and it is a necessity of thought. Albert Schweitzer
01:26 AM on 01/28/2011
sorry jewelcatz, I just posted you a most favourable reply and pressed the wrong button! Ahimsa. Agree with you 100% but think we're in the minority. Let's hope all the animals go the Planet Creature when they die and live a wonderful life on a plane without humans. Goddess bless. xx
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SweetJudith
03:43 PM on 02/01/2011
Bless you Jewel!
Fanned and faved!
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RMankovitz
Researcher, inventor, entrepreneur, author
06:59 PM on 01/24/2011
Actually, this article opens Pandora's box when it comes to a discussion of the ethical treatment of sentient beings by an arrogant species - us.

Evidence from the science community is mounting that, like animals, plants are also capable of feeling pain, thinking, and defending themselves. I suggest "The Lost Language of Plants" by Buhner and "The Secret Life of Plants" by Tompkins and Bird. Plants are capable of communicating with each other, defending themselves with toxins made to order, and remembering which animals hurt them, including humans.

Plants can think and remember:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10598926

Plants recognize their relatives and form communities:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/earth/hi/earth_news/newsid_8076000/8076875.stm

Plants can fake illness to deter predators:

http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1708770/first_discovery_of_plant_that_fakes_illness/index.html

Plants have learned to manipulate behavior of insects for self-protection:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8383577.stm

Plants can also manipulate behavior of insects to insure reproduction:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8632814.stm

With respect to eating plans, nature fortunately provided us with one that respects the ethical treatment of both plants and animals. A description and references regarding what nature evolved humans to eat can be found in "The Original Diet."

Roy Mankovitz, Director
http://www.MontecitoWellness.com
A research organization
02:17 AM on 01/25/2011
While it is true plants show signs of feeling pain, I think we can both agree there is a fundamental difference between mowing our lawns and paying someone to skin fish alive for us.
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RMankovitz
Researcher, inventor, entrepreneur, author
01:07 PM on 01/25/2011
I have spent decades researching answers to questions like yours. Since I am not a plant, and have been culturally conditioned to have a bias towards animals as opposed to plants, I had to find a neutral reference point to begin looking for answers. As a researcher and author of several books on illness prevention, I chose nature as my template for the ethical treatment of sentient beings.

My search took me into the fields of ethnobotany, primatology, zoology, evolutionary biology, and toxicology. As a result of that research, I feel confident in answering your question.

The analogy your proposed is between skinning a fish alive, and mowing grass. I agree there is a fundamental difference because the mowing of grass does not kill it – it actually makes it stronger. Nature designed grass to be “mowed” by ruminants and other herbivores, so mow away.

Now try these variations on your analogy, where I do a few substitutions.

1. Ripping a living plant out of the ground so that you can get to the root and eat it.

2. Ripping out the embryos of a living plant (seeds), and eating them.

3. Instead of a fish, it is a shrimp being peeled.

4. Instead of grass, it is a prized orchid being cut from its root at its prime.

Get the picture? Our culture interferes with our nature, and natures provides the answers to all of these questions.
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jimboy71
Hen Diapheron Heautoi
04:06 PM on 01/26/2011
Really? Sagebrush communicates browsing by ungulates through the community using chemicals which trigger the other plants to up the production of toxins. A silent scream, if there ever was one.

The whole issue is framed in ridiculous, sentimentalist human terms. Life feeds on life. It's a basic reality of existence. However, this process need not be disrespectful, nor need it be wantonly cruel.
01:28 AM on 01/28/2011
Goddess bless R Mankovitz. Your heart is in the right place. xx
06:07 PM on 01/24/2011
I'm an advocate of non-violence in general, so I would extend my umbrella of empathy to encompass marine life as well. We should always seek to minimize violence in our lives. I don't need creatures to be skinned and gutted alive just to satisfy my pallet. Obviously, some animals in the wild might die because of plant-based food production, but I don't think that justifies the deliberate and unnecessary slaughter of animals. If people insist on eating animal products, then I would hope they do thorough research into the sources of their food, and I trust that they would be willing to do the job themselves.
05:51 PM on 01/24/2011
"Should fish have rights?"

The mere fact that you have to ask that question is indicative of how morally bankrupt we are as a society.

Surely ALL animals have the "right" not to be skinned alive, no?
01:30 AM on 01/28/2011
Yes Eric. All living, breathing, bleeding entities have a right to life. I think humans as a species, have lost all morality. Just look at what we hold sacred - and weep. xx
05:14 PM on 01/24/2011
Thank you to Mercy for Animals for working so tirelessly for all creatures, big and small. And thank you Mikko Alanne for spreading the awareness that fish too feel pain. According to Dr. Donald Broom, scientific adviser to the British government, “The scientific literature is quite clear. Anatomically, physiologically, and biologically, the pain system in fish is virtually the same as in birds and animals.”
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Just4theHalibut
07:12 PM on 01/25/2011
Dr Broom needs to read up on the revolutionary research in understanding brain chemistry and consciousness that has happened in the last decade. While I admire his efforts to educate the public about evolution, and to promote animal welfare for mammals -from cows to foxes-, he is clearly not an expert in other phyla than mammalia.