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Nancy Redd

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Should Chivalry Be Dead?

Posted: 09/27/2012 3:33 pm

It didn't sit right with Lawrence E. Adjah that there were a lot of women standing up during their Caltrain commute, so he decided to take a stand. Adjah, a media and entertainment entrepreneur in Palo Alto, decided to make an announcement, asking for seated able-bodied men to give their seats to standing ladies. Passengers complied and Adjah posted a picture of the standing men and seated women to his Facebook page with the caption, "We did it! All the men agreed to stand! There are no women on this Caltrain standing. Small victories family, small victories." Gathering dozens of likes in minutes, the post stood as a testament to chivalry not being entirely dead. However, nice things rarely go rewarded, and a vocal minority of disapproving men, presumably Adjah's friends, voiced their opinion on Adjah's activism, claiming that chivalry should be dead, citing gender equality as the basis for dismissing Adjah's efforts.

While gender equality is an interesting premise for the argument against Adjah's efforts, it became clear from the negativity (and negative depiction of the women who might avail themselves of a seat that could be occupied by a dude's derriere) that the dislike of this was about a deeper hatred of women. Take this comment from one of Adjah's Facebook friends, for example: "That's that stuff that be driving the Female Entitlement Mindset. If you can run from store to store for four hours straight, then you can stand on the damned commuter train for a half hour. Sheeeit." The commenter followed up on the ""beggin' ass, free-ridin', tackheaded broads" Adjah was serving, continuing to say that "those "chicks" who want men to give up seats so that they can sit their lazy, entitled asses down are prime examples of the selfishness... [a]s much as it may surprise you to read, there are some men who actually BELIEVE in the notion of gender equality."

There are many men who believe in gender equality, but I guarantee that they aren't the ones referring to women as beggars, freeloaders and broads. And men who truly believe in gender equality, regardless of whether or not they agree with Adjah's actions, would recognize that in the scheme of things -- considering just how much is at stake for women's rights and equality not only in this election year but in our culture -- a simple, positive gesture by a single individual just isn't worth shutting down with negativity and hate.

Perhaps this caught my eye since in an effort to be frugal both time and money-wise, I decided to ride the New York subway this week with my 24 pound son strapped to my chest in a Baby Bjorn carrier. While I was happy to build the muscle that comes with lugging the equivalent of five 5 pound sacks of sugar, and when I was occasionally offered a seat I did decline politely since my ride was so short (and August seems to tolerate standing up better than sitting), I was shocked by the number of men AND women who forcefully pushed past not just me but also heavily pregnant ladies as well as the elderly and disabled of both genders, just to get one of the few available seats. Those few who offered me kindness did put a spring to my step, and reminded me of why I, too, always offer my seat to anyone who seems like they could use it more than me, whether it is an able-bodied woman who seems like she has had a rough day or a person who visibly doesn't look like they should stand.

There's so much sadness and killing and anger in the world today that when I see something a little different in a good way, something like Adjah's efforts, I want to share with the world -- despite the (perhaps over-hyped?) controversy that surrounds it.

So what say you, readers (and viewers if you watch HuffPost Live)? Do women who accept a seat from a man just want to sit on their "lazy, entitled asses," or do you agree with Adjah, who stated in response, "A woman gave birth to you, a man fathered you, they are equal beings but by no means the same. That alone, among other things, encourages me to use any opportunity I can to show them they are special, whether it's as simple as getting up on the train."

Let me know in the comments!

 

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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
BarryMayor
11:00 PM on 10/11/2012
I have no problem standing for a lady but a feminists should stand. Feminism is about being treated no different than a man would be.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Riddler This
Engineer, accountant, analyst, independent.
01:34 PM on 10/02/2012
I like opening doors for women as much as I enjoy closing them.
10:34 AM on 10/02/2012
When you see a dirty man in a pair of work boots hop on a train or bus, that means he probably just banged out a 10 or 12 hour day doing hard labor. Show a little courtesy ladies and offer him your seat.
12:46 AM on 10/02/2012
I think the last paragraph of the article proposes a false dichotomy, between two schools of either "men giving a seat to women means those women are lazy, entitled, etc" and "men should give their seats to women because women are special".

I don't think I should give up my seat to a woman (or any other person) on a train/bus/whatever if they're as able-bodied as I am. This doesn't mean I dislike women. I think it's just a natural consequence of gender equality. If someone is pregnant, injured, elderly, ill, feeling faint... then sure, I'll give up my seat.

But I think it's unreasonable to expect men to always give their seat up for a woman, and as a man I'd be resentful if someone in a carriage I was in tried to make all the men give up their seats. I'd feel they were trying to push their idea of how "men" should act onto others, and shaming people into complying (and would be an example of "gender policing").

Sure, it might some people feel happy as a "nice thing to do for others", but I think in the long run it's patronising to the women and rude to the men involved, and isn't a "small victory" that should be celebrated.
05:17 PM on 10/01/2012
I have a problem with this article-and it is this. I have had WOMEN attack me for holding open a door-loudly and publicly. Although I will hold a door for ANYONE who is behind me regardless of gender (as shutting a door in someone's face is RUDE), I have LITTERALLY and on MULTIPLE occasions had WOMEN very loudly say things like "well, what, you're some man who doesn't think a woman can hold a door for herself?"

Contrary to this WRITER'S attempt to posture this as "see, it's all about awful misongynist men" as a VICTIM of women who have behaved this way, it is a no win situation. If you are NOT chivalrous, you are attacked. If you are, you are attacked. THAT has NOTHING to do with "hatred of women" but everything to do with hate FILLED women. And it is a FACT that this writer clearly chose to ignore by posturing this as "either you are claiming women are lazy" or not.
01:07 PM on 10/02/2012
I don't believe for one second that a woman ever yelled at you for holding a door. I'm a radfem and I have a lot of rage, but I assume that when a person of any gender holds a door for me they're just trying to be polite. I say "thank you." If anyone in the world would yell at a man for holding a door, it would be someone like me, but you are wrong. Even I don't do that.

Hey, look, I just offered up that I'm a radfem. So, you're an MRA you doesn't belong in the Women's HuffPo, right?
01:14 PM on 10/02/2012
I don't believe for one second that a women ever yelled at you for holding a door. I'm a female radfem and I have a lot of rage, but I assume that when a person of any gender holds a door for me it's just to be polite. I say "thank you." If ever there was a person who would snap and yell like you describe, it would be someone like me. Even I don't do that, so you're wrong.

Give up a seat for me or not; I don't care, but keep your MRA rhetoric out of the Women's Huffpo.
01:55 PM on 10/02/2012
oops, sorry. I didn't see my comment in moderation, so I retyped it.
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nonChristian
Not even Jesus can save me
03:53 PM on 10/01/2012
As a gay man I have a somewhat neutral opinion. Men should be free to be as chivalrous and as non chivalrous as they want. I have no problem with a man giving up his seat voluntarily or opening doors (which is really sex indifferent, it is just a good gesture), I do have a problem with people associating shame with being non chivalrous. There are women who behave like it is their "right" to be treated chivalrous and anyone who is not is "rude". If you want that "right" go back to being at home and pregnant full time. You can't have your cake and eat it too. I also see a lot of straight men end up being chivalrous out of pressure from their wives/gfs just to please them. Talk about being p whipped.
FYI gay guys are not exempt from chivalry shame (Though it might seem like it). I would rather open up the door for an elderly man than a stuck up woman.
02:59 PM on 10/01/2012
The action on the train was wrong because it was gender based instead of needs based.
10:08 AM on 10/01/2012
Gotta wonder about Lawrence's mental status if his raison d'etre for the day is getting men to give up their seats on a commuter rail.

Curious how some men feel that they have the right to impose their own sense of "chivalry" using shaming tactics to get men to go along with their foolishness. Good thing for Lawrence I wasn't on the train that day, I'd have made him look like a fool, find out which button to push on the guy and just keep pushing.
02:05 AM on 10/01/2012
"A woman gave birth to you, a man fathered you, they are equal beings but by no means the same. That alone, among other things, encourages me to use any opportunity I can to show them they are special, whether it's as simple as getting up on the train."
10:21 PM on 09/30/2012
I am female and I have offered my seat many times to men or women who need it more than me. I have also been offered a seat many times by men and I want to say to all those men that it was a very sweet and kind gesture. I appreciate it very much.
02:21 PM on 09/30/2012
I ride the subway every day and women are constantly more pushy and rude than men. Women of all ages will cut in front of you and push past you without regard. Men are taught never to bump into people because we'll likely knock you over but it's like women don't care if they hit you with a shoulder or elbow. Sometimes a woman will walk directly into you expecting you to move and when she bounces off (lol) and almost falls down she acts like you hit her or something. Women don't deserve any special treatment. If anything they need a reality check.
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shortguy54
Short, balding, brilliant... (well, maybe not so)
12:29 PM on 09/30/2012
"A woman gave birth to you..."
What's so special about giving birth? Rats do it all the time!
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shortguy54
Short, balding, brilliant... (well, maybe not so)
12:27 PM on 09/30/2012
Why s should any man be a gentleman if there are no ladies left?
01:56 AM on 09/30/2012
Chivalry should not be dead, but neither should it be limited to men. Or perhaps we should just call it courtesy. Hold the door for someone with their hands full, or offer the seat to someone ill or elderly, regardless of what gender they are.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
MissTake1989
Equal means equal, hypocrites.
12:40 AM on 09/30/2012
OK, so I've finally figured it out.

Feminism was about women's right to CHOOSE when they are patronized or not.

And about men's right...to have no choice as to whether he patronizes her...if she so chooses...'

Got it.