MoveOn Does Not Speak For Me

I essentially gave up on MoveOn in 2004. At the time they were promoting a boycott of the Walt Disney Company when Disney decided not to release a Michael Moore movie.

I suggested at the time that the real enemy of the moment was to defeat George Bush in the upcoming election, and to organize such a boycott was counterproductive, even if MoveOn was correct in their allegations, and they were not. They remained adamant regarding their actions, and to me, they missed the point, as they so often do.

In my opinion, they have done a great disservice to the anti-war agenda by running an add that led off with what I consider to be an ill considered play on a Generals name with the line: "General Petraeus or General Betray Us?

While I do not love their second line of text which is: "Cooking the books for the White House," it is the type of line that one can use if they wish, and have it appear to be a needless pejorative.

Although I have taken issue with our President on so many issues, I do try and retain a level of civility, and not allow my childish behavior to take over when I have an overwhelming desire to be "verbally" cute and abusive.

Notwithstanding that I have been reasonably well educated, I revert to the classic films of my generation for inspiration, and quote as a rule from "Animal House," "Young Frankenstein," and in this case Blazing Saddles."

"Mongo: Don't know. Mongo only pawn in game of life."

Generals are as a rule like Mongo, and are only pawns in the game of life.

Disagree with the Generals, of course. Try and have them replaced if need be, this is OK as well, but for goodness sake NEVER, EVER, RIDICULE THEM.

If the "left" on our country wishes to assist the "right" just vilify a General in particular, or our soldiers.

Moveon should be respectful of their political enemies and so should President Bush.

Moveon can be as critical of whomever as they wish, but they should never say insulting things like "General Betray Us.

Norman Horowitz

Comments

[jhNY]

The musings of an entertainment industry executive as to the proper form a political organization might adopt when attempting to criticise a military man in a newspaper advertisement seems based on a thorough study of his own prejudices and emotions. Fine enough.

The organization does not speak for you. Hardly surprising. They don't speak for me either. They speak for themselves. And you wish they said something else, and now you, Norman Horowitz, wish to make sure I and the whole wide blogosphere know they weren't speaking for you, Norman Horowitz. Duly noted.

[Plowboy]

There is such a thing as evil. It seems that most find it difficult to see. Is that because it is such an accurate reflection of ourselves? The general's testimony is an example.
He should be telling us what the situation is, what can and cannot be done to improve it, and how we are affected. (Duty and honor asked this of him.)
Instead he is sellinng us Bush's "stay the course" with gobbledegook, and in the process exposing himself as one who never did his job because he was so conditioned to serve his boss. (Self service to get ahead asked for this.)
We think of Evil as something gigantic, but that isn't true.
Evil is little. That is why we fail to see it, or when seeing it, fail to oppose it. It seems to be not worth bothering with.
George Bush is small and evil. Those he serves are small and evil. Those who serve him are small and evil.
Is our nation as small and evil as they make it seem, one so cowardly and weak morally that, for no benefit to ourselves, we hand over our policy making to people with their own agenda, and a commitment tlo force it through. Because we donn't want to be bothered?

[dexxjones]

norman, i usually love your posts, but this time i wholly dissagree.

the right can scream all they want about the ad. until they deal with coulter, oreilly and the rest, they have no room to talk.

as for the idea of a general as a sacred cow? this is america. nobody is above mocking.

that includes isreal.

[DemandTruth]

You know what? You people are outrageous! You yell and scream that the Democrats need to grow a pair and start fighting back and speaking truth to power.

Well, when we finally do (and all that ad really did was speak the truth) you jump on the bandwagon and start attacking them with all the fervor of the regressive right!

What the hell is wrong with you?

[charlietuna11]

although republicans are demanding that democrats apologize for insensitive comments made by move on.org,idont recall any republicans complaining about the swift boat ads that smeared the charcter and war heroics of sen.kerry.idont recall bush and his cronies apologizing for spreading the rumor in the south carolina primary that the sen.from arizona fathered a black child.i dont recall bush and company apologizing for spreading the rumor that the late gov.ann richards was a lesbian when he first ran for gov.,i could go on and on.i can think of no polital party in the history our nation that has suffered such a severe case of amnesia as the republican party.a party by the way i was a proud member of until about the second year of bushs first term.i believe the ambassador and general are loyal and good men trying to carry out failed policies that in truth they most likely dont believe in themselves.

[TheIndependenceParty]

I was dumbfounded by Petraeus' comment that US Forces "do not provide the Sunni Tribes in Anbar with weapons to fight Iraq Al Qaeda"! He was the general in charge of the 150,000 AK47's that went missing, and admitted that the Iraqi weapons depots discovered during the invasion would remain unguarded for lack of adequate numbers of troops.

No need to provide the weapons, ... they can get them for free anytime they want them!

[nippersdad]

Mr. Horowitz:
I think we can all admire your sentiments, but for better or worse, clearly todays America is not as sophisiticated as you would like it to be.

In 2000, Gore gave us a plan for saving Social Security; the thoughtful response that he received was that he invented the internet. Since then we have been force fed a litany of stories about McCain's illegitimate black babies, Cleland as Osama supporter and New Orleans residents as whiners.

The people that we are up against can only be moved by snigger factors, and cheap ones at that. They could'nt recognize a sound policy position if they tried because it would require reading and an interest in something more than whatever appeals to their inner lizard at that particular second. Short term, short sighted and self congratulatory wins the day with these folks. Shame and embarrassment is the only weapon left to us for our defense.

If MoveOn chooses to fight them where they live then I can only thank them for their willingness to recognize the calibre of their foe and fight them on their terms.

The foe is not George Bush, he is merely their figurehead. Supported by drooling masses following instructions disseminated by Disney, Fox and a host of other cartoon characters with agendas. We are living in the age of Animal House, not to recognize that is the error that we have made for years.

[sonofloud]

how exactly do you play nice with a rogue US president who continually breaks international and domestic laws?
any general who serves him is just as guilty!

[Sephirothii13]

I am sorry but you have to get off this point that you think that anyone in a uniform is someone that we can blindly trust or blindly hold honor for. it does show they have earn some amount of honor, however if you allow yourself to be pimped out then the honor you have earn will be allowed and should be allowed. if not then every president will pimp out the generals to get some brain dead war passed. remember when we went blindly with a general, and he went to the UN. sometimes you have to question everythingf

[OtayPanky]

There are two levels at which the MoveOn ad can be usefully deconstructed: effectiveness and ethics.

Let's start with ETHICS: BETRAYAL is a big word. Does it fit the case here? Eli Pariser and company thinks it does. Other lefties and indies think it's inaccurate and unfair as a description of this general's role and recommendations.

There's no resolving that question among those who disgree.

So let's move on to EFFECTIVENESS. The idea here is to win elections, and change the game, which means win the hearts and minds of voters and also their elected representatives.

So did the MoveOn ad succeed at that level? Perhaps it's not an answerable question, because we have no tools to measure with.

Absent tools and a definitive answer, do you THINK the ad succeeded by that benchmark? Do you think it helped - even a little bit - to convince the unconvinced? Did it shift the dialogue? Did it move the ball down the field?

Or...do you think the ad merely energized the bases on both the left and the right: throwing red meat (sorry vegetarians) to the lefties, and giving El Rushbo the same red meat to energize their base against the "lefty crazies".

My own thought is that part of the meta-strategy for 2008 has got to be, keep the repub base from gettting all stirred up. Rove knew that the smartest thing he could do was poke that wasp's nest with a stick, over and over again. Invariably, they would swarm out IN FORCE, and vote in greater numbers than the dem base.

Sun Tzu's Art of War provides a lot of grist for the mill on how to fight EFFECTIVELY in order to WIN. Eli Pariser isn't seeing that sort of perspective, and the decision to run this particular ad simply plays into repub hands.

The ad would have been much more effective, and less counterproductive, presenting the facts, and damning the military recommendations without damning the General.

[raker]

The weenieness of Democrats, afraid to hurt the feelings of Republicans has led us to this impotent, weak-tea, non-binding and ineffectual Democratic congress. I would have made MoveOn's headline something like this: Petraeus, Errand Boy for the Murderer Bush, Arrives at Congress with 'Report' Tucked into Collar; Wagged Tail When Presented with Biscuit.

[EspressoAtNoon]

MoveOn speaks for me. Where the hell is civility when Bush/Patreus and Company are lying to the public which is resulting in the death of thousands of American soldiers and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians?

There is a time for civility and now is NOT that time. I guarantee if your kid was getting deployed next week, your civility would fly out the window.

Keep up the good work MoveOn. Continue to call a spade a spade regardless of how Fox News spins it afterwards.

[Zentomato]

Move On is spot on with this. also did you miss the question mark after Gen Betray us? Also in contrast dont forget the totally misleading ads now being forced upon us by FreedomsWatch.org using diabled Iraq war vets to pitch the White House's "stay the course" mentality. In one of their ads the legless vet tells us "they attacked us" which we all know is an outright lie. Then they flash to a picture of the plane flying into the WTC tower. We cant play nice with these repugs. They perceive being nice as being weak.

[realityrules]

MoveOn speaks for me. I watched most of the hearings, and Petraeus' loyalty to the administrations desired message is a betrayal of the truth, and all of us citizens. The right wing goes so much further in the language they use to disparage the "left", it surprises me the use of a relatively mild term "betray" would offend you so much.

[snaggster]

Yes, sheep of America, never ridicule a general. Follow them to your ruin instead.

Petraeus is, of course, just a little bit more culpable than a pawn. Lyndie England - that's a pawn.