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Omar Baddar

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Bill Maher's Confusion About Who 'We' and 'They' Are

Posted: 05/06/10 09:35 AM ET

HBO's Real Time with Bill Maher is one of my favorite TV programs. Besides being a funny comedian and a witty news commentator, Bill Maher is also a sharp political critic and an iconoclast whose devastating critiques, particularly of the religious right, are truly remarkable.

To his credit, Maher tries not to single out any particular religion for hazing: Jews, Catholics, Mormons, Muslims, Buddhists, Scientologists, and others have all been on the receiving end of some piercing ridicule (not to everyone's liking, of course!). But this open-minded critic is not immune from biases and gaps in rationality on some topics, as is the case with his frequent implication of a unique connection between Islam and violence. Sometimes the implication is subtle (as was the case with his film Religulous), and other times it's not so subtle.

In response to the now-infamous threat made against the creators of South Park by fanatical thugs belonging to "Revolution Muslim" (a bizarre group led by an "American-born Jew formerly known as Joseph Cohen who converted to Islam"), Maher went into a slightly incoherent "us vs. them" tirade:


Suggesting that Christian and Jewish extremists don't resort to violence the way Muslim ones do (citing a Taliban attack on a girls' school as an example), Maher argued that "their religious wackos are a lot more wacko than ours." He then ended his monologue with these comments:

I'm really glad that Obama is reaching out to the Muslim world, and I know Muslims living in America and Europe want their way of life to be assimilated more. But the Western world needs to make it clear: some things about our culture are not negotiable... one of them is freedom of speech..., women are allowed to work here and you can't beat them.

Now, Maher's implication is pretty clear, but it suffers from two noteworthy logical defects:

Our Wackos Are Actually Just as Wacko

The implied premise that Judaism and Christianity belong to a cohesive unit called "the West" which stands in distinction from another cohesive unit called "the Muslim world" is absurd. But even if one accepted this false dichotomy, why did Maher's example of "the craziest religious wackos we have here in America" stick to nonviolent fanatics? Why not abortion clinic bombers?

And what about Jewish extremists in the Palestinian territories? I haven't heard an argument for why their brutal attacks on western human rights activists accompanying children to school, routine vandalism, and other violent acts coupled with chants of "we killed Jesus we'll kill you too" are any less wacko.

Structural constraints are another obvious factor to consider. You see, the Taliban can act like they do because they live in a lawless state, and extremist settlers can act like they do because of a culture of impunity provided by the structure of Israeli apartheid. So while Pat Robertson may seem harmless, by comparison, when he issues a death fatwa on Hugo Chavez, or when he blames a hurricane or an earthquake on gay sex or a pact with the devil or something, a useful question to contemplate is whether he and his followers would be as benign (if one could describe them as such) if they could get away with worse behavior. Thankfully, we live in a system that can enforce law and order; and our wackos have the alternative outlet of lobbying the government for wars against Iraq and Iran, and they send over 100,000 emails to the White House for the perpetuation of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, so direct violence from them is somewhat less likely.

The Mirage of "Muslim Culture"

I described Maher's tirade as incoherent because the "them" in Maher's equation shifted from "the developing world" at one point, to people whose culture "makes death threats to cartoonists," to "the Taliban," and eventually to "Muslims" (not exactly interchangeable terms). None of these categories can be lumped into a "Muslim culture" because the Muslim world is simply too vast to collapse into a cultural category. From Eastern Europe to Africa, from Lebanon to Pakistan, and from Iran to Indonesia, we are talking about completely and fundamentally different cultures. In all five Arab/Muslim countries where I grew up (and went to school with girls in all of them), women are an integral part of public life, and many of them dress like Western women do. So I can assure Maher that many of these societies are not waiting for "the West" to lecture them on whether women can work.

Had Maher merely stated that our culture is better than the Taliban's (which is truly hideous), I daresay the majority of Muslims would approvingly count themselves among "us" in that equation. Where he should be expressing solidarity with progressive Muslims who would stand with him in opposition to violent extremism, he instead alienates them by a fictitious cultural divide between simplistic categories of a tolerant West and a Muslim world which he defines by its worst elements.

The correct "us vs. them" divide is between those of us, in all societies (including Muslim ones), who value freedom of speech and thought and who oppose violent extremism on the one hand, and those who employ or endorse such violent intimidation on the other. Someone like Maher should've known this.

 

Follow Omar Baddar on Twitter: www.twitter.com/omarbaddar

HBO's Real Time with Bill Maher is one of my favorite TV programs. Besides being a funny comedian and a witty news commentator, Bill Maher is also a sharp political critic and an iconoclast whose deva...
HBO's Real Time with Bill Maher is one of my favorite TV programs. Besides being a funny comedian and a witty news commentator, Bill Maher is also a sharp political critic and an iconoclast whose deva...
 
 
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
marianproletarian
01:00 PM on 05/25/2010
This is a great article. I do like Maher's show, but often times he does come off as an ignorant bigot. As I recall, much of his shtick used to be based on misogyny, but thankfully he seems to have backed off on that a bit. Maybe he thinks he needs to be shocking/provocative to be funny. John Stewart doesn't seem to have this problem.
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blakej19
D.F.A.
10:53 PM on 05/23/2010
I like Bill Maher however strongly disagree with his views on religion as he likes to lump every person that believes as irrational and stupid when this is oviously not true, he likes to focus on the fringe and make it seem as if thats what the mainstream religious people do, which is false.
12:38 PM on 05/22/2010
His monologue is confusing, because when he talks about "them" at various times he means "people who don't live in the U.S.," "people who don't live in the West," "people who live in Islamic countries," "the minority of Muslims in the world," and the Taliban.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
autumnfire1957
11:28 PM on 05/20/2010
Well, let's give him more time then 6 minutes to clarify. One topic One hour.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
knerd
Trapped in a world he never made
06:47 AM on 05/20/2010
Thanks for this. I knew immediately something was a little off kilter in my spirit after hearing Bill's remarks on Islam and violence last Friday. Your comments here helped my brain understand what my heart was telling me.

Unfortunately the feelings Bill Mahr expresses lead inevitably down a dangerous and ignorant path--one that will not serve us now that the entire human species appears to be finally standing around in the same room together.

When Jesus counseled us to love our enemies he realized that on some deep level, we need our opponent.

There really IS no other way. We're down to the last stretch. Awareness and transformation are the key. The apes have to make the choice to come down out of the trees and start roaming the new terrirory. Together. We have a lot to learn.
03:45 PM on 05/19/2010
Omar, you're kidding, right? Maher's an ass at times, but not on this topic. There is a West and Moslems have not been part of it. This doesn't make Islam any less worthwhile than whatever may be "West" but it isn't part of the West. To a great extent the West is, in fact, defined by what isn't Moslem. And more importantly, Islam has this sense about itself. When Islam has an Enlightenment and accepts Western notions of politics (universal individual rights under a secular law), the right role of religion in civil society (private, subordinate, and moderate), the primacy of science, and a belief the idea of social progress, then I'll accept that there is not "us" vs. "them." But not until.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
knerd
Trapped in a world he never made
06:56 AM on 05/20/2010
If you look at a model of the globe and actually hold it in your hand, it's hard to tell east from west or from north or south for that matter. These are categories imposed by the human mind on a mysterious cosmos. What sort of struck me about your remarks (and they and similar ones can be found nearly everywhere) was the linguistic structure we sometimes use to frame the pesky details.

WHEN the Indians/ the Turks/ the Iranians/ the guy next door/the immigrant across the border ACCEPTS credit cards/logical, left-brained thinking/my political party/our city apartments and not your mud huts THEN, and ONLY THEN will I deem you worthy enough to include you with me on this borderless planet we share.

If you think about it, this dynamic is the same structure that gets me into occaisonal muddles with my own wife.
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marianproletarian
01:04 PM on 05/25/2010
Awesome post.
09:10 PM on 06/12/2010
Well said.
10:43 PM on 05/18/2010
Bill's biggest fault is that he thinks, "I'm right, you're wrong, end of discussion." His obstinate attitude really pisses me off. For the most part I agree with his opinion, but he is totally inflexible in some areas such as religion and Peta. I can't see how he can support a terrorist organization like Peta. Peta supports the bombing of research labs that are looking for cures to life killing diseases. Does Peta and Maher want million to die of malaria and other diseases?
04:59 PM on 05/18/2010
Wow, Omar has to be one of the most racist writers I have read on HP. He glosses over the Muslim violence all around the world. Even his pointing at Israel as a problem. Truth is that Muslims kill more Muslims each year then there are deaths of Palestinians due to Israel. Hey Omar, If Israel is apartheid then what do you call the way Christians are treated by the Muslims? And while your at it, what do you call how they treat women?

I read an article about the Darwin fish. That fish with feet on the back of some cars used to imply evolution. The article pointed out that people with Darwin fish are not afraid to critique a Christian because, in general, they are non-violent. Try doing that with a picture of Mohammad.

In the end Omar is a clear example of the problem. He probably describes himself as a moderate, but his lack of perspective taints his stance.
12:31 PM on 05/18/2010
Well said.

Sure, comedians can get away with generalizations and insults and logical fallacies - all in the name of comedy; but one of the things that makes Maher an exceptional comedian is that he doesn't (usually) have to hide factual errors behind his comedy - because he's usually right, in addition to being funny.

It's good to see a critical analysis of someone who most progressive, intellectual, critical thinkers like (we like him because he a progressive, intellectual, critical thinker). I think Maher himself would appreciate this criticism - and if he reads this, I'll bet he can even make some funny, self-deprecating comments about it.
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RodbfromNC
08:37 AM on 05/18/2010
The problem is religion. Billion, yes, billion of people have died for religion through history. Unless the people of this world take a serious reexamination religion, we will as a people, never stop violence in the name of religion.
08:12 PM on 05/17/2010
Let's all remember that Maher is a COMEDIAN. Stop trying to gauge how accurate he is on socio/political/religious issues. The history of the Borscht Belt? OK.
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Dave24
Without God, life is everything.
02:32 PM on 05/17/2010
Scripture is literature. As such, it's meant to be interpreted an infinite amount of ways. Anyone who claims to know the "truth" of what scripture says is, of course, failing to see that such truth remains only their version.

And that's why religion is irrational. Because it claims objective truth while basing it off stories and interpretations that are completely subjective.

If you want objective truth, one has to study the Universe and learn what it tells us. And the only verifiable, open, and successful methodology is science.

Hence their incompatibility.
09:43 PM on 05/15/2010
Well, all I can say is you had better get used to the us and them mentality when it comes to religion because that's how it's gonna go from here on in, I suspect. Sam Harris said something once to the effect that, as humans, we have two choices(in how we interact), conversation and violence. And religion is a conversation stopper. That's how we got to this. For decades now, it's been so taboo to talk and criticize religion. But, because of the things being done, nowadays, in the name of it, we're forced to talk about it. And no one is prepared to because so many are so ignorant about so much, due to the years of "not rocking the boat". So this kind of dialogue is what you get.

Religions ability to keep itself out of conversation is the only thing that keeps it alive. It's myth, after all. If we were truly open to discussing and criticizing religion like everything else in our societies, I doubt it would last long.
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oMeoMi
12:56 PM on 05/16/2010
Hmm... As I recall, it was religion AND politics that were conversation stoppers. Nonetheless, your point is well taken.
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09:35 PM on 05/15/2010
The problem is the Sharia law. It has different versions and it is a guidance for all muslims. It also involves "hudud" punishments (e.g. amputation, stoning, lashing, and beheading). There is no Islam without sharia, there is no modernity with.
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IndependentBadger
08:44 AM on 05/15/2010
There's no such thing as a progressive muslim. The two words contradict each other. One refers to an apocalyptic death cult that spread rapidly as a result of people's natural fears about plague and virtually no control over their lives (6th century Yemen's collapse, plus a plague the Romans brought back from Africa), and stuck around as a result of the religion's murderous tenets regarding non-believers. The other refers to the constant need to question all authority. You can't have both. Islam is a disease, much like christianity or judaism. Only, its a young disease, and our resistance is much less developed.
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Gurg
What goes around, comes around!
09:10 AM on 05/23/2010
From you profile picture i will assume (profiling, i know) you are a hindu or born into the hindu religion.
You easly demonize the great Abrahamic religions but say nothing about your own.

Without religion there is no morality and without morality there is no humantiy. Without religion putting some structure into your life you would be no better than an animal. This world would be alot more chaotic without religion.