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Patrick J. Charles

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The Tale of Two Second Amendments

Posted: 09/07/2012 5:56 pm

If you think the gun rights-gun control debate is not a serious issue in this year's election, you are mistaken. Look no further than this year's Republican and Democrat platforms and one can see that Second Amendment politics is an issue of serious disagreement.

For Republicans, the Second Amendment is not limited to the holdings of the Supreme Court decisions District of Columbia v. Heller and McDonald v. City of Chicago, where 5-4 majorities only held that armed self-defense in the home, with a hand gun, is a fundamental right of law-abiding citizens. Allegedly, the right to keep and bear arms also "includes the right to obtain and store ammunition without registration," a right to self-defense "wherever a law-abiding citizen has a legal right to be," the ability to purchase and maintain unlimited ammo clips, and the ability to purchase and maintain assault rifles. All and all, Republicans see the Second Amendment as a means to enable "Americans to defend their homes and communities."

For Democrats, the Second Amendment is acknowledged as an "important part of the American tradition" that includes the "right to own and use firearms." However, unlike Republicans, the Democrats perceive the Second Amendment as being "subject to reasonable regulation." It is the Democratic Party's hope that there can be "an honest, open national conversation about firearms" and the "terrible consequences of gun violence."

What makes this political divide interesting is the manner the political parties are touting the Second Amendment. The Republicans see their interpretation of arms bearing as "antedat[ing] the Constitution and... confirmed by the Second Amendment." In other words, Republicans view the Second Amendment and their entire platform as restoring the Founding Fathers' values.

Meanwhile, the Democrats platform asserts progressive American values that they believe are in line with the issues and problems we face today. This includes addressing the problem of gun violence, with Democrats hoping to strengthen background checks, close purchasing loopholes, and devise "commonsense improvements" that protect the community at large.

Seeing that Republicans are claiming to be restoring our past and Democrats are touting progression, one would assume the Republicans' laissez-faire approach to guns syncs with eighteenth century legal understanding. Not true. In fact, it is the opposite.

To members of the founding generation, the entire purpose of government was to advance the public good through a well-regulated society. According to William Blackstone, a highly influential 18th century jurist, the "public good" was "nothing more essentially interested in the protection of every individual's private rights, as modeled by municipal law." This required combining and uniting the "individual, with the general interest," which is "most effectually done, in a democratic republic" through laws enacted by the people's representatives.

Part of this "public good" included preventing breaches of the peace and public injury with arms. As early as the Norman Conquest, restrictions on the carrying and using of arms began appearing in the legal discourse. And as early as 1328, the Statute of Northampton made it unlawful to not only bring a force affray, but even prohibited the act of going armed "by night or day, in fairs, markets, nor in the presence of the King's Justices, or other ministers, nor in no part elsewhere."

It was a prohibition reinforced by royal proclamations and recited in constable oaths from the 14th through the 17th century. Even after Parliament adopted Article VII of the 1689 English Declaration of Rights, the antecedent to the Second Amendment, which declared that "subjects which are Protestants may have arms for their defence suitable to their conditions and as allowed by law," prominent 18th century legal commentators confirmed Article VII did not supersede the power of Parliament to prohibit the act of going armed in the public concourse to prevent public injury.

For instance, John Bond's 1707 edition of A Compleat Guide for Justices of the Peace it stated the statute applied to persons "that carry Guns charged." Indeed, if the person was assisting the "Sheriffs, and other Officers in executing their Offices" they were exempt from punishment. However, such public arming was at the discretion and order of government, not the individual.

In 1705 Michael Dalton also wrote that the Statute of Northampton prohibited the "wear[ing] or carry[ing] any Guns, Dags or Pistols charged" in the public concourse. Preparatory self-defense was not an excuse. As Dalton noted, "persons... so armed or weaponed for their defence upon any private quarrel" were not immune because they could seek the assistance of constable to have "the Peace against the other persons" enforced.

What makes the Statute of Northampton of such importance to the historic gun rights-gun control debate is it remained part of the common law despite the adoption of the Second Amendment and contemporaneous state "bear arms" provisions. A contingent of legal scholars, backed by gun rights groups like the National Rifle Association and Second Amendment Foundation, dismiss this influence by contending the Statute of Northampton included a specific intent or mens rea requirement. In other words, they argue the statute must be interpreted as an assault with a deadly weapon equivalent.

This interpretation is intellectually suspect for a myriad of reasons; primarily because numerous legal commentators stated it was the act of carrying "Armour or Weapons, not usually worn, [that] may strike a Fear into others unarmed." This included the very influential Blackstone, who wrote the "offence of riding or going armed, with dangerous or unusual weapons, is a crime against the public peace by terrifying the good people of the land."

Still, even if we ignore the historical evidence and demote the Statute of Northampton to a mere prohibition against carrying "dangerous or unusual weapons" among the public concourse, it is within the legislature's purview to decide which weapons are in fact "dangerous" and should be regulated, limited or prohibited. Just pause to consider this historical fact: an average eighteenth century rifleman could discharge two rounds per minute, giving a company of thirty riflemen the power of 60 rounds of ammunition per minute. Today, a number of firearms easily exceed this. It cannot be logical for eighteenth century law to prohibit the carrying of a charged single shot pistol, but for the Republican platform to assert an "antedated" constitutional right to publicly carry a firearm that carries six, 12, 15 or more shots today. This is not even taking into account 21st century demographic changes, especially the vast population shift from the countryside to urban areas.

The point here is not that public gun prohibitions are the definitive answer to solving or ending gun violence. There may be some truth to the argument that more guns in the hands of properly trained, law-abiding citizens deter crime. Instead, the point is that public gun regulations to preserve order and prevent public injury are part of our Anglo-American tradition, and it is a subject that has always been regulated by the legislatures in the interest of the common good. It is for this reason that the Republican's laissez-faire interpretation of the Second Amendment is worrisome. Not only does it seemingly foreclose an open and honest discussion on the dangers of gun violence, but it implies an armed society facilitates law and order, not government order. And if this is the Republican platform on guns, the Founding Fathers are shaking their heads at the Republicans and nodding in support of the Democrats push for "an honest, open national conversation about firearms."

 
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If you think the gun rights-gun control debate is not a serious issue in this year's election, you are mistaken. Look no further than this year's Republican and Democrat platforms and one can see tha...
If you think the gun rights-gun control debate is not a serious issue in this year's election, you are mistaken. Look no further than this year's Republican and Democrat platforms and one can see tha...
 
 
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12:35 AM on 09/24/2012
In the area where I live, the police respond with all due diligence to a 911 call. In an amergency, they may be in my driveway in as little as 2 minutes. In an actual emergency where I or my loved ones are threatened, I would much prefer to count on my own reaction time, instant, than wait those 2 minutes for the police to arrive, find dead bodies of my loved ones and me, and then file piles of reports and spend money, time, and energy attempting to find out who is responsible, prosecuting (in the event they actually do figure it out), and then just maybe, maybe the perpetrator(s) will spend some time in prison. I'll take my chances with a jury rather than count on the government (police) to deal with my responsibility as a man and head of household. When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. As things are going, that may well make me an outlaw. SO BE IT
10:58 PM on 09/20/2012
You are so wrong here. This is a case for making Americans subjects of a crown, rather than free citizens. The Bill of Rights declared many things to be rights that the Crown had deemed privileges.

By the author's logic, Americans should have no free speech and no right to refuse quartering soldiers in our homes, among the many other rights asserted by the Bill of Rights and the Constitution.

Apparently the author would have us to still follow British common law and bow to the King and Queen of England.
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Rooster Coburn
Less Gov't + More Responsibility = A Better World
06:22 PM on 09/20/2012
Google up "Nunn v. State" to see what an earlier state supreme court had to say about the right of the people to keep and bear their private arms.
12:21 PM on 09/20/2012
The US supreme court has ruled on four elements of the Second Amendment, but the high court has never ruled on the meaning ot the Second Amendmen which mean my opinion is just as valid as other opinionss. But you can't say the Second Ameendment mean this or that as this court has never ruled on the meaning of the Second Amendment.
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RevJimIII
Grin and Barret...
04:59 PM on 09/20/2012
By reading much of what the authors of the Constitution wrote, we can get a pretty good idea of what they meant.. The Federalist Papers is a good start.
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09:36 AM on 11/03/2012
There is nothing to rule on.

the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." - Thomas Jefferson
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bjdzyak
12:15 PM on 09/20/2012
A WELL REGULATED MILITIA, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The purpose was for this nation to be defended by a Citizen "army" and not a standing army controlled by the Federal Government. In other words, if you want a gun, you're going to train in a local "militia" where you will learn weapons and tactics that will enable you and your fellow gun owners to defend this nation whenever Congress declares an Act of War. The power of violence would be kept in the hands of We the People.

In fact, Article One of the Constitution specifically limits the appropriation of funds toward "war" to a limit of two-years at a time, unlike every other thing that Congress can fund without a time limit. The purpose of that portion of Article One was to specifically not permit the funding and existence of a Standing Army. In conjunction with the intent and purpose of the ENTIRE Second Amendment, Congress would only be able to fund a war effort on a limited basis and it would have to essentially ask the Citizens (We the People) if such war was going to be justifiable because we would have zero professional soldiers.

We don't need any new laws or gun-control regulations to fix this broken nation. All we have to do is properly enforce the Second Amendment as it was intended.
03:24 PM on 09/20/2012
I will allow the original draft of the 2nd Amendment to speak for itself with regards to the intent of the 2nd Amendment.

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country; but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms shall be compelled to render military service in person."

The final draft gives two rights. The right to bear arms, and the right to a militia. The only reason the wording order was rearranged with the militia clause in front was due to the removal of the conscientious objection clause. It made more grammatical sense.

Therefore, you're going to need a new excuse for more gun control in contrivance against the Constitution.
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bjdzyak
03:21 AM on 09/21/2012
"Thomas Jefferson first suggested not having a standing army, and he wrote a series of letters in 1787, as the Constitution was being debated, urging James Madison and others to write it into the Constitution. He suggested three provisions: a constitutional ban on a standing army, a provision making every able-bodied male a trained member of a local militia that could come under national control if the country was attacked, and a provision making sure every male had a weapon handy at home if that day ever came."

"The topic was hotly debated, and Alexander Hamilton wrote an extensive article about it, first published in the Daily Advertiser on January 10, 1788, an article now known as No. 29 of the Federalist Papers:3

If standing armies are dangerous to liberty, an efficacious power over the militia, in the body to whose care the protection of the State is committed, ought, as far as possible, to take away the inducement and the pretext to such unfriendly institutions....

[A citizens’ militia] appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army, and the best possible security against it..."
03:15 PM on 09/21/2012
I Agree. The Second Amendmentg makes no reference to private ownership of firearm. All the hight court has to do is rule that is the case and all these opinions would be just, opinions. If they did rule in this way, but they never have and most lilkely never would, and it would stop all this nonsnse about what our founding fathers intended. You like I don't think our founding fathers were so dumb they waned to conduct government with guns pointed at their heads. I have spoken and written on the Second For over 30 years and I get these dumb looks from people when I tell thelm the Second makes no reference to the private owenrship of firearms. They have all swalleow the gun lobby line hook line and sinker. I have many books on the Bill of Rigfhts. The one I like the best is very thick and long and very detailed on all those rights and the Section on the Secaond Amendment is.......... half a paragrah long!.
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David Carson
02:47 AM on 09/28/2012
SCOTUS disagreed in HELler
08:13 AM on 09/20/2012
I keep reading about all these "new" interpretations by the Anti 2A legal experts, yet I have not seen a good explanation as why "The Right Of The People" in the Second Amendment is a "collective" right yet the same words applied to the other amendments do mean the individual.

Of course, they would be tickled pink if all of the sudden "The Right Of The People" in all amendments could be interpreted as collective right and under the control of the Government.
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bjdzyak
08:28 AM on 09/23/2012
The only people who are "Anti-Second Amendment" are NRA members and unaffiliated gun nuts. The ENTIRE Second Amendment mandates that gun-owners should be training with local militias to be ready and able to fight to defend this nation whenever Congress declares an Act of War.

In other words, if you want a gun, you WILL train on a regular basis in weapons and tactics to be a part of a Citizen military. If you want a gun and refuse to train and be a member of a "Militia," you don't get a gun.

That's not too difficult to comprehend for educated people.
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Jerry Bourbon
10:47 PM on 09/27/2012
"The right of the people...
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David Carson
02:47 AM on 09/28/2012
you are obviously ignoring Heller
02:31 PM on 09/30/2012
An interesting "opinion" like all othes means nothing unless the high court condifies it into law. That's not a new opinin, its just more of the same by those who want to pull out a few words of the amendemt and create a law with it, Our founding fahtfers were no not only very smart and well edicated,they also wrote flawless english. The first part of the paragrach refers to the last part of the paragragh and if it doesn't its no longer an english paragraph. The Right to bear arms refers to the "well regulated mililtia. It doesn't refer to an insurrectrionist right to take up arm against its own govrnment, which these nuts claims our government wanted to give that right to the people so they could exercise that right if the government became terrinical. No government in the history of the world could have survived is such words where in fact contained in that countfries constitution. Its all a very specious arguement.
04:39 PM on 09/16/2012
And if democrats were actually interested in, as they say, an "an honest, open national conversation about firearms", we'd be happy to oblige them. But they're not. They're only interested in a total and complete disarmament of the American People, and repeal of the Second Amendment. They'd be ecstatic if they could do it all at once, but they can't, so they'll lie, (as they do), and dissemble, call for "open and honest conversation", and pass a little law here, a little regulation there, until they've neutered the Second Amendment to ineffectiveness. Conservatives have tried to reason with them, to work with them to find solutions to problems that are truly reasonable, fact-based, and constitutional, yet they want more and more, they're never satisfied. And won't be, until they achieve their end goal. Example: the Brady Bill. Insisted upon in 1994 by democrats during the last gun-control blood-in-the-water feeding frenzy, it passed. A study done by Duke University proves that the Brady Bill was a complete failure, as we told them it would be. The "Assault Weapons" Ban of 1994, a useless solution in search of a problem, was found to be of no effect whatsoever by the National Institute of Justice, research arm of the DOJ. Yet they "openly and honestly" want to enact it again.

We've already HAD several "open and honest" conversations about gun control. We're done.
11:31 PM on 09/14/2012
Thanks Patrick. Keep writing about this if you can!!
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Dimensio
I just don't know what went wrong!
04:36 PM on 09/15/2012
Are you able to validate Mr. Charles's claim that the Republican party's national platform includes advocacy of repealing the 1934 National Firearms Act?
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ElmCreekSmith
I hunt the things that go bump in the night.
09:53 PM on 09/11/2012
"For Republicans, the Second Amendment is not limited to the holdings of the Supreme Court decisions District of Columbia v. Heller and McDonald v. City of Chicago, where 5-4 majorities only held that armed self-defense IN THE HOME, WITH A HAND GUN, is a fundamental right of law-abiding citizens." (Emphasis added)

You're misreading the Heller and McDonald decisions as many of your ilk misread the Miller decision in the past. The question is: Are you misreading it on purpose or are you really that thick?

ECS
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David Carson
12:40 AM on 09/13/2012
I am making an assumption here--but I have a suspicion that the OP is using partial truths to give false impressions--since prevarications are more convincing if there is at least some truth in them
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hagagaga
You can't take the sky from me.
02:02 PM on 09/11/2012
The Second Amendment never gave anybody any rights. None of the first eight amendments to the Constitution gave any rights. They merely stated the rights inherent to humanity that are most likely to be infringed upon by tyrannical governments.

And yes, the Second Amendment is subject to reasonable regulation. They have that in Vermont, Arizona, North Dakota, and Montana.
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Jerry Bourbon
03:08 PM on 09/11/2012
Alaska, too...
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QuietProfessional
Recovering Jedi
01:46 PM on 09/11/2012
'Instead, the point is that public gun regulations to preserve order and prevent public injury are part of our Anglo-American tradition, and it is a subject that has always been regulated by the legislatures in the interest of the common good."

The author triumphally presents this assertion as if it were a major, in-your-face "gotcha" that should completely flummox proponents of the Second Amendment.

Indeed, we owe much to our English forebears--we are the major inheritors of their legal tradition. However, the author overlooks the obvious: that we broke with that tradition in ways we rightfully deem to be "revolutionary" today! In fact, that break with "English tradition" is commonly referred to -- on this side of that Atlantic, at least -- as the American Revolution. (Have you heard of it, Mr. Charles? You're article completely fails to mention it!) The Founders included the Second Amendment in the Bill of Rights precisely because they recognized that the right to keep and bear arms had eroded beyond repair in Britain--to the point that the opening battles of the American Revolution were fought over attempts by British regulars to confiscate the American colonists' arms and ammunition and with those stores their ability to resist the despotism that Britain was seeking to impose on the colonies.

More revisionist history from the left.
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Molon Labe762
Sic Semper Tyrannis
09:56 AM on 09/20/2012
fanned
12:05 PM on 09/11/2012
sigh...

You're citing as historical evidence examples of laws that were considered unjust and the inspiration for actually spelling out that the right to keep and bear arms was explicitly protected. The disarming of the Protestants, and other English laws abridging the natural right of self defense are events that were historically significant enough to actually make sure they didn't happen again.

Which is the opposite of what you seem to be trying to say: that it's evidence it was okay to do those things. Someone isn't a student of history here.
12:00 PM on 09/11/2012
What on earth is he even quoting?

If you put things in quotation marks, especially things that seem suspiciously false, you should cite what you are quoting. Bad journalism.
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crosswiredmind
homo sapiens sapiens
01:55 PM on 09/10/2012
I agree that firearms should not be carried openly, as it does cause folks to get nervous, and possibly even frightened. I see no problem carrying a concealed firearm for self defense. In the days of the Statute of Northampton (as the author points out), firearms were not as lethal. One could reach the authorities for help without too much risk to life and limb. Today the situation is different. The lethality of firearms means that the police will be called to solve a murder rather than prevent a crime if a citizen is denied the right to self protection guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment. I am all for reasonable regulation of firearms. The laws we have do that quite well in fact. Simply close the "gun show loophole" and all will be right with the world. Anything more than that will cross the line and infringe on the free exercise of the rights protected by the 2nd Amendment.
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and retired military combat vet
08:21 PM on 09/10/2012
"Simply close the "gun show loophole" "

Please name a single federal firearm laws which ceases to be in effect at or contains exemptions for gun shows.
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crosswiredmind
homo sapiens sapiens
10:30 AM on 09/11/2012
The reason I put it in quotes is to show that person-to-person sales has a common name that would be more easily recognized. It is my belief that all firearms sales should pass through the instant background check system.
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RevJimIII
Grin and Barret...
05:03 PM on 09/20/2012
"I agree that firearms should not be carried openly, as it does cause folks to get nervous, and possibly even frightened. " -- I have carried openly for years.. never had a problem.. even if someone gets nervous or frightened by my exercising of a right.. that would be THEIR problem, not mine.
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crosswiredmind
homo sapiens sapiens
10:34 AM on 09/21/2012
I respect that, but in my opinion the general public is just not ready for it.
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Jerry Bourbon
05:49 PM on 09/09/2012
Can we have a "reasonable, open" debate about the whole concept of our Attorney General shipping assault weapons to known cartel members, in violation of Mexican law, and over the stringent objections of the gun shop owners his ATF forced to do the selling?
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wolflover3825
Hungry Like the Wolf.
07:42 AM on 09/10/2012
But their idea of that open and reasonable debate is to blame Bush for that.