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Paul Abrams

Paul Abrams

Posted: January 2, 2010 01:59 PM

Limbaugh Lauds (Socialist) Medical Care in Hawaii

What's Your Reaction:

"but I think the most likely reason of all was the Grinch had a heart two sizes too small" ("How the Grinch Stole Christmas," Dr. Seuss).

According to Rush Limbaugh, the health care reform that may be passed by Congress is socialism. Yet, it bears a striking resemblance to the universal healthcare system that just treated him in Hawaii that prompted his remark: "there is nothing wrong with the American health care system. I received no special treatment."

Yes, Rush. That's the point! American medicine is superb--for those who can get it. And, in Hawaii, no one gets special treatment, because everyone can get it.

[Er, by the way, just to help you out, Rush, a fair percentage of your listeners do not know Hawaii is part of the United States, so clarify that for them...otherwise, they will wonder about you]

By accepting socialist medical treatment in Hawaii, therefore, Rush Limbaugh has shown that, when one is ill, what matters is the availability of quality health care, even if it is socialist.

Rush follows a long litany of conservatives, such as all Members of Congress that have a medical office paid for by taxpayers available in the Capitol, by Dick Cheney who had socialist pacemakers implanted paid for by the government, and George W who had a government-paid socialist colonoscopy while in office. Members of Congress over 65 get single-payer socialist medical care from Medicare.

Hawaii has had nearly-universal employer-mandated health insurance since 1974. Although its Pacific Island location makes the costs of everything--from gasoline to milk to ice cream to housing--the highest in the nation, health care premiums in Hawaii, for comprehensive care with small co-pays and deductibles, are nearly the lowest and their costs per medicare beneficiary are the lowest in the nation.

Why? There are a variety of reasons, most traceable to universality. With everyone covered by primary care, emergency room visits tend to be for real emergencies, not the non-emergent care mainland ERs dispense for people without coverage. That reduces the costs of ERs and the costs of non-emergent medicine since patients can be handled less expensively and more effectively by their primary docs. Hospitals have not overbuilt, acquiring expensive machines to compete with their neighbors for patients. Insurance companies have instituted screening and other measures to improve wellness among their covered populations.

We can all be pleased that Rush appears to have survived his encounter with socialist medical care. He seems to be very happy himself, commenting on the results of a socialist angiogram that showed no disease in the arteries that feed his heart muscle.

Now, of course, Rush does not live in Hawaii and so his costs are not covered by the Hawaiian insurance system, but having that "socialist" system for more than 3 decades has not reduced the quality of the care he received. Who would have thunk it!

If Hawaii-style medical care is good enough for Rush Limbaugh, it is good enough for me.

Thanks Rush, and with it my hopes that your medical insurance covers all your costs and that the greatest country in the world can make that same care available to everyone.

Happy New Year!

 
"but I think the most likely reason of all was the Grinch had a heart two sizes too small" ("How the Grinch Stole Christmas," Dr. Seuss). According to Rush Limbaugh, the health care reform that may b...
"but I think the most likely reason of all was the Grinch had a heart two sizes too small" ("How the Grinch Stole Christmas," Dr. Seuss). According to Rush Limbaugh, the health care reform that may b...
 
 
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12:36 AM on 02/14/2010
Hawaii's health care sounds a little bit like Richard Nixon's plan for universal health care from about the same time...
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07:54 PM on 02/12/2010
Correction $700 a month.
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07:53 PM on 02/12/2010
Health care in Hawaii is mandated. The law states that all employers in the state of Hawaii must provide health care for their employees. If you work and make $700 a week you can get health care.

"Plans designated as 7(b) provide for sound basic hospital, surgical, medical, and other health care benefits; however, plan’s benefits, such as, the deductible, out of pocket limit, lifetime maximum benefit, benefit level and copayments, may be more limited than the benefits provided by plans qualifying as 7(a). Plans qualifying as 7(b) require the employer to pay one-half of the cost for dependents’ coverage."

Hawaii mandates coverage, but the employee still pays out of pocket. This isn't socialized medicine. It does not come close to Canada, France or any other country that offers its citizens a "socialized health care". Hawaii is not a good example of how a health care system should function. It's not even close to Medicare... The insurance companies and the corporate hospitals are still getting the lions share of the profit.
11:06 AM on 01/07/2010
No it is not unbelievable in America; this is merely the coming of what has been in the works for years in this society. Most Americans paid little to no attention to what our politicians were doing in the 70’s and 80’s, namely selling their souls for big campaign contributions, and now what has been the providence of the poor in this society for generations, has now begun to effect middle class whites and you don’t like that. Perhaps instead following the lead of movie characters quoting the line that “greed is good”, we should have been watching what was happening to the least of our follow citizens and asking, “what would I do if I were in their situation”; but you were doing great, you could afford shinny new cars, Mcmansions, IPods, cell phones, laptops, Vegas vacations, so to hell with the poor, “they should have worked harder”.
Well welcome to world of the used and forgotten, where your medical problems, bills, layoffs, foreclosures, are just the price of doing business; “maybe you should work harder.”
11:18 PM on 01/05/2010
The goal of the Post Office is not to turn a profit? No kidding, but then how on Earth despite the fact that there isn't a CEO making hundreds of millions there is the the Post Office 6 billion dollars in debt?
The goal of the Post Office shouldn't be to make a profit...nor should it be to lose 6 billion and counting. If the Post Office must deliver to far reaching places then change it so that mail is delivered just 2 days/week there.
The PO is dead anyway....bills should be paid through electronic invoice anyhow and you can save money on the posgtage! Sorry but the idea that it is OK and people are making excuses as to how gov't agencies like the Post Office can just lose billions of dollars is absolutely crazy.
In 10 or so years we are going to be here discussing the same exact thing except it will be about how gov't is losing billions in health care.....and at that time the Post Office will be 20 billion in debt!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
KNH781
I exist
01:48 PM on 01/05/2010
To my fellow liberals and progressives: It it not necessary to BECOME the enemy in order to DEFEAT the enemy. Please temper your comments with that in mind and try taking the high road.
01:19 PM on 01/05/2010
[Er, by the way, just to help you out, Rush, a fair percentage of your listeners do not know Hawaii is part of the United States, so clarify that for them...otherwise, they will wonder about you]

(Er, by the way, just to help you out, Paul, a fair percentage of your readers did not know that Congress was controlled by the Dems since the '06 during the last election, so clarify that for them...otherwise, they will wonder about you)
12:11 PM on 01/05/2010
Was his treatment free of charge and paid for by the state? This story is misleading.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
mavsguy842
01:14 PM on 01/05/2010
The story clearly says:

"Now, of course, Rush does not live in Hawaii and so his costs are not covered by the Hawaiian insurance system, but having that "socialist" system for more than 3 decades has not reduced the quality of the care he received. Who would have thunk it!"

I believe the author's point is that a system of socialized medicine does not reduce quality of care.
12:07 PM on 01/05/2010
So his treatment was free of charge to him?
03:06 PM on 01/05/2010
Obviously he must pay for his own insurance policy--but he was treated at a hospital that is the epitome of everything he is fighting in the health reform bills. And his treatment was "just dandy", mind you--in his own words.

The interesting part of the story, however, is much like the ending of "How the Grinch Stole Christmas"...when the Grinch realizes he cannot stop the merriment down in Whoville, Rush's angiogram "came without death panels, it came without lines, it came without government agents' declines!" So, maybe, just maybe health reform means a little bit more...

So when we hold the "bill has finally been made into law feast", Rush, Rush himself will carve the roast beast!
10:07 AM on 01/05/2010
Abrams needs to check his facts. Hawaii does not have a socialized health care system. Hawaii has a private sector system with a state law requiring all employers to provide health care to full-time employees. That is not state-run, nor any other form of socialized medicine. Hawaii tried a universal, state-run system, but it went bankrupt in just seven months. Furthermore, you might want to do a little investigation before you start endorsing the existing Island-State health care system. Because of mandatory health care requirement, Hawaiian unemployment, while lower than California's, is still quite high. Small companies are being pushed out of business due to the high health care costs, which are mandatory, even at entry-level positions, such as McDonalds and other fast food companies. Larger companies are hesitant to hire full-time employees because of these same high costs involved. And, according to the US Census Bureau, the cost of Hawaii Health care premiums has risen 94.5% in just nine years. Of course it has! There is no market incentive to keep prices low if the government mandates that you must purchase the product. Again, according to the US Census Bureau, Hawaiian health care premiums increased 3.7 times faster than wages. Hawaiian Health Care is not socialized health care, and it is not the answer to our health care problem. Neither is the smug attitude of the American media, which has long since ceased being objective regarding this, or any other issue.
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Catfish1968
I live in a river of mud
12:40 PM on 01/05/2010
Did the Hawaii Chamber of Commerce write your comment? It's dangerously close to their viewpoints that I see all the time in the Maui News. Nevertheless, I completely disagree with you that small businesses are being pushed out, this is untrue.
05:02 PM on 01/05/2010
I obtained my information from the Pacific Business Journal (http://pacific.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2009/10/26/editorial1.html) and the US Census Bureau (http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/hlthins/hlthins.html). There are several reports in that site

I am not looking to win a argument here. I think the press has lost objectivity, hence, my comments. But I want to know the truth. Give me the data that shows that I am wrong and I will adjust my opinion. People are not talking to one another. They are yelling at each other and refusing to listen to any information that contradicts their worldview.

Give me real information, cite your sources. Stop the name calling and innuendo. I blame the press because I believe they created this atmosphere.

Hawaii does not have socialized medicine. They have a private sector system with a regulation requiring employers to provide health care to their full time employees. This has expanded health care -a good thing. However, it has interfered with the free market, causing an overwhelming, unsustainable increase in premiums. That is the down side.

Instead of attacking, why not have a discussion on improving health care without rationing, that does not punish business (which will cause a loss of health care). Keep in mind, as much as some of you hate business, it is business that funds all of this and we must maintain a healthy economic climate -including consistent profit margins- to obtain increased health care coverage.
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Rena Marrocco
Social and Political Activist
01:06 PM on 01/05/2010
Based upon US Census data the number of uninsured between 1998-2008 (the most recent figures available) rose 1.4% from 14% in 1998 to 15.4% of the total U.S. population in 2008. The number of people covered by private or government health insurance programs went down that exact same amount (1.4%) from 86% to 84.6% during the same time period.
During the same time period, Hawaii's uninsured went DOWN from 9,9% in 1998 to 7.8% iin 2008 (that's a growth factor of 2.1%). The number of people covered by private or government insurance also rose 2.1% from 90.1% of Hawaiia's population to 92.2%.
The Census Bureau does not track information regarding the cost of health insurance premiums at all. So your figures there are very suspect.
However, I would like to point out: if the government is requiring mandatory health insurnace coverage, and more people are getting coverage, then why are premiums going up? Doesn't capitalism say that more people mean more money to be shared by more Health Insurance companies, which means more competition, which means the premiums would go down? So explain how a mandatory insurance requirement, in a free market enterprise is causing premiums to go up? What part of a government mandate that all individuals have health care coverage is prohibiting more healh insurance comapanies to go into that market and offer coverage?
05:17 PM on 01/05/2010
Yes, according to the US Census Bureau, the number of people in this country who are not covered by health care has gone up. However, reread the reports. That increase is largely due to the increase in the numbers of foreign nationals who are here illegally -illegal aliens.

As for your question about the Free Market, the answer is simple: The Free Market has been muted in Hawaii. By mandating that employers MUST by the product, insurance companies do not have to compete in the Free Market to entice employers' business. They are legally required to buy the product. And what is worse, Hawaii, like most states, limits the number of companies that can legally provide health care in the state, further restricting Free Market competition.

Hawaii limits the number of companies that can do business in their state (we used to call that a monopoly) and then requires that everyone must buy their product. The state further interferes with the Free Market by requiring an ever increasing amount of heath care issues and patient entitlements are included with each policy. Of course premiums are going to go up.
01:38 AM on 01/05/2010
Insurance agrees to pay 100% on all emergency room visits. This is why these emergency rooms are so crowded. 93% of these patients don't need to be there. Have you ever seen a gas station giving away gas too the first 100 customers, people will line up down the road hours before the station opens just to fill their new cars with 8-10 gallons of gas. 20 to 25 bucks. I just spent a couple weeks at a hospital and their emergency rooms were dead at night and bustling in the daytime. Why go to the most expensive part of the hospital when you can be treated better and cheaper from a clinic or practice. If they are going to have universal coverage in Hawai'i, why wouldn't the citizen pay their premiums to the hospitals instead of to the government or a third party handler, like insurance companies. If your going to make this mandatory, why a third party, why profits?
06:41 AM on 01/05/2010
More and more insurance companies are refusing to pay for ER visits unless it is deemed a true emergency.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
gwhizz
08:39 AM on 01/05/2010
Even better. I know people who have had real emergencies after which their ins. has refused to pay because they didn't get the ER visit pre-approved! Don't call 911 until you've checked with that insurance co. gatekeeper in Bangalor!
05:19 PM on 01/05/2010
True, but a large percentage of ER traffic is due to people who have no health care, and includes a substantial number of illegal aliens who have become aware that hospitals cannot legally turn them away.
08:55 AM on 01/05/2010
That's why a public option would help tremendously! Insurance companies operate on a 30-50% overhead to operate... Medicaid/Medicare operates under 10%! Too Much of our money goes to pay for board members, CEO's, and bonuses for representatives who sell coverage to those who don't use it!

Preventitive care has never been insurance companies moto! Why would they? Once you get really sick they just drop you for a pre-existing condition! So a universal mandate WITH A PUBLIC OPTION would be the most ideal! Then all insurance companies would be forced to focus on preventitive care to keeptheir costs down! Then, nomore ER visits for colds, flu, etc...
05:36 PM on 01/05/2010
I would like to know where you get your facts. "Medicaid operates at 10% overhead?" Medicaid is bankrupt and trillions of dollars in the red. Doctors are opting out of the program by the thousands. Not only is Medicaid bankrupt, so is Social Security. Why? Largely because Congress raided the Social Security fund to balance the budget. Only a mad man or a very uninformed person would want to turn our health system -and the trillions of dollars involved- over to the Federal Government. This is the same Federal Government that has included some 3 to 4 thousand pork projects -projects that have nothing to do with health care- in the health care bill. This is the same Federal Government that is headed by Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, who had insisted upon having her own tax-payer funded jet airliner. A Federal Government that includes Jack Murtha, who used millions in tax-payer money to fund his own airport in the middle of nowhere, which is used by only 20 people per day.

Turning health care over to the Federal government would be like giving the keys to the bank vault to the mob.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
acudoc
12:11 AM on 01/05/2010
One reason the cost of medical care and medical insurance is so high is because, by its very nature, there is built-in upward pressure on production costs in a debt-based, banking-cartel-issued money system.

I spent two hours in a local emergency room a few weeks ago. The cost? $2200. I hadn't been to a doctor in 30 years so I was not exactly prepared for that figure.

Since 1913 the dollar, whose value was supposedly going to be protected by the newly-founded Federal Reserve, has lost more than 95% of its value. Producers/entrepeneurs are constantly subjected to advancing costs, which also promote an economic climate antithetical to savings, the source of true capital advancement, and these advancing costs encourage the migration of industry to foreign countries.

It is insanity to believe that experts know the correct amount of money for the proper functioning of an economy, and in fact, economists of the ignored Austrian school have shown that the quantity of money is relatively unimportant if prices are allowed to adjust. In our own history of the latter half of the 19th century, we experienced unprecedented growth accompanied by a slight deflation (the purchasing power of the dollar actually went up).

Money arose historically in the market place as gold and silver, without the agency of banks and governments, and it is high time to return to a precious metal-backed currency that cannot be counterfeited by governments or banks.
11:21 PM on 01/04/2010
Is Hawai'i in Amrica? I thought Obama was born there and it is foreign?
11:49 PM on 01/04/2010
Stop the nonsense with that line. 99% of Republicans believes Obama is a citizen. So stop with that.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Chinstrap
Clinton/Clinton 2016
09:45 AM on 01/05/2010
I believe jpaul was being sarcasmic.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Gingersp
proud to be a liberal
10:54 AM on 01/05/2010
Then why don't we hear more of you chastizing that 1%? If I were you, I'd be real embarrassed about that and be making it more public that you believe it's absurd!
Also, let us have some fun. It's so crazy that someone would actually believe that garbage that it makes for some good fun. With all the craziness that is going on (thanks in most to Republicans), at least let us have some fun with it.
09:52 PM on 01/04/2010
Continued from below......

Guess what someone makes just those above listed changes to their lives by living below their means plus allowing more competition between health care companies so someone can buy health care policies across state lines....there is plenty of money left over at the end of the month to purchase health care. Problem is the person complaining about not having health care doesn't want to change their life style....Me give up my BMW? My Nissan Max? Heck no...let the gov't pay for me. Heck, many here saying that they can't afford health care are complaining about it over the internet....my internet plus cable costs over $200/month. Why not give up the internet and your other comforts and pay for your necessities in life first and then get the internet, expensive car, the trip to hawaii etc. Any left over money then use it for the extras....Plus, please, stop having children you can't afford that expense is a killer.
09:51 PM on 01/04/2010
The people who don't have insurance:
1) How many children do you have? I bet you have more than you can afford. Want to talk about moral compass? True environmentalists believe that there is way too many people living on this Earth....moral compass should say "Gee why produce more children that will further corrode the Earth" Why did I have 3 children? Because you wanted them right? Maybe someone shouldn't have 2, 3, 4 or more children if they can't afford to take care of that number of kids. Have one. Maybe, just maybe you shouldn't have any if you can't afford it. But let me guess, you want the gov't to help take care of your responsibilities right?

2) What kind of car do you drive? Buy a used car and not lease a new one. Maybe you would love to have a brand new Nissan Maxima...but you can only afford a used Honda Civic....guess what, you buy the used Civic.

3) Where did you go to college? Maybe you should start out at community college for the first 2 years and then do the next 2 go to your local state college. Not everyone can afford private name brand schools that are ranked higher. Do what you can do.

4) What do you eat every day? Steak? Chicken? Do you eat out? Maybe you can't afford to eat meat? Maybe you can't afford to eat out? Go veggie if you can only afford pasta.
10:01 PM on 01/04/2010
Continued....

Guess what someone makes just those above listed changes to their lives by living below their means plus allowing more competition between health care companies so someone can buy health care policies across state lines....there is plenty of money left over at the end of the month to purchase health care. Problem is the person complaining about not having health care doesn't want to change their life style....Me give up my BMW? My Nissan Max? Heck no...let the gov't pay for me. Heck, many here saying that they can't afford health care are complaining about it over the internet....my internet plus cable costs over $200/month. Why not give up the internet and your other comforts and pay for your necessities in life first and then get the internet, expensive car, the trip to hawaii etc. Any left over money then use it for the extras....Plus, please, stop having children you can't afford that expense is a killer.
11:53 PM on 01/04/2010
AAAAAAAAAAMEN! If you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em! My daughter once was watched by a "quiverful" family who now has 6 kids. Mom doesn't work, dad has a minimal income out of which they pay for health insurance for the two of them. The kids? On Medicare, but she had the gall to b!+(h and moan about the government taking over health care. HELLOOOO?? You're ON government health care! Why don't these people get it? And she has NO problem taking my tax dollars to use for her 6 kids. Meanwhile I'm debt free and stopped at two kids, and we pay out the a$$ for my premiums through work for just the 4 of us. All we need in this country is a complete flat tax rate of 20-25% (less than what most of us pay now including health care premiums), all social services provided through this, and if you don't work, you don't get a medical card (lessen you're a minor or senior). Simple as that. Works in France and I got some of the best health care of my life while I was there and didn't pay a dime. A flat tax, single-payer health care, and a little more common sense would solve many a problem in this country. USA!
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Gingersp
proud to be a liberal
10:56 AM on 01/05/2010
SO how do you feel about abortion, teaching birth control in public schools, passing out birth control in public schools. Just want to hear you put your money where your mouth is.
12:10 PM on 01/05/2010
you are way off..I don't have health insurance and you are wrong on all of your assumptions for every question..and there is no way I could afford health care. I know other people who don't have insurance..most of them aren't as you describe. When you make little money, and rent and bills (for basic amenities) are 70-80% of your income..guess what? There's not a lot left over.

You create this stereotype of what non-insured people are like and just assume everyone is like that...ridiculous.