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Paul Loeb

Paul Loeb

Posted: May 30, 2008 09:53 PM

The Buried Florida & Michigan Story: Why Campaigning Matters


It makes sense for the Florida and Michigan delegations to be sanctioned by the DNC, as has now happened. If the Democratic Party is going to win elections, you can't have states capriciously violating agreed-on rules. But an equally critical reason to dock the states delegations is that for a relatively unknown challenger like Obama, taking on someone as massively visible as Clinton, in-person campaigning is essential, and he had no chance to do it there. Obama's campaigning has played a critical role in every contested race in his once-underdog fight, both those he won, and those where he closed the gap, though lost.

In Wisconsin, for instance, Clinton led Obama by a 10 to 20-point margin throughout last fall, and continued to lead through December. By mid-February, Obama took a narrow lead, but only after he began seriously campaigning did he open up his eventual 17-point margin. The same was true in Virginia. Obama started in late October was down by 24 points down, opened up a 15 to-18 point margin after he won Iowa and South Carolina and held his own on SuperTuesday, then ended up winning by 28 points after he visited enough key cities to get his message blanketing the media. Major states that Obama lost had a similar pattern. Clinton was ahead by nearly 30 points in Ohio in October, and by 21 a month before the primary. Obama closed the gap to 10 percent, and the gap would have been narrower still without the interventions of Rush Limbaugh and Clinton's spurious NAFTAgate charges. The same process occurred in Pennsylvania. A month before the vote Clinton had a 19-percent lead. She ended up with 9 percent. Part of this was the strength of Obama's get-out-the-vote efforts, efforts he had no chance to exercise in Florida. But voters also got the chance to see him on their local media and in their local communities, and this made a major difference, even with the emergence of the Jeremiah Wright controversy. The more they got to know Obama, the more they liked him.

I'm not saying that Obama would have necessarily beaten Clinton in Florida (though I think he would have in Michigan). But her mid-January leads were no greater than those she held at a similar point before the Pennsylvania and Ohio primaries. With a chance to give people a sense of what he'd done and what he'd stood for, plus an election people knew would count, there's every reason to think Obama would have cut Clinton's 17-percent margin in half, if not more. With Obama demographically far more competitive in Michigan, and the state's current polls showing him running as well or better than Clinton against McCain, I think he'd likely have won there.

Not having the chance to fully campaign also hurt Obama in key states with fully legitimate elections. For instance, he had time to make just three stops in California between the Iowa victory that marked him as an unarguable contender and the SuperTuesday primary, and only one stop in New York. With greater exposure, he likely would have closed both gaps. That's especially true given that California's early voting rules meant that as many as half the California ballots may have been cast before Super Tuesday--which means that many people voted before the Ted Kennedy endorsement, before the campaign stops Obama was able to make, and before his massive Los Angeles Oprah rally three days before the election. A new Field poll now finds Obama leading Clinton by 13 points among California Democrats, a 23-point shift of buyer's remorse from Clinton's original ten point victory.

But while I believe SuperTuesday was created in part to help insider front-runners against outsider challengers (it also originally emphasized southern states, to promote a more conservative politics), the elections held on that day still represented the will of Democratic voters at that current moment. For elections held with no direct exposure to the major candidates, where many voters stayed home because they knew the results would be meaningless, and where in Michigan, Obama was not even on the ballot, you cannot say the same.

Paul Rogat Loeb is the author of The Impossible Will Take a Little While: A Citizen's Guide to Hope in a Time of Fear, and Soul of a Citizen. See www.paulloeb.org To receive his articles directly email sympa@lists.onenw.org with the subject line: subscribe paulloeb-articles


 
 
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01:47 PM on 06/02/2008
This is nonsense. Obama was not "relatively unknown" when the Florida or Michigan primaries took place. He had dominated every major media outlet for months.
07:20 PM on 06/02/2008
Hillary had a huge edge on Obama simply on the "name recognition". Alot of people dont watch or keep up with politics daily and when they go in that primary booth they vote the name they recognize. This very fact alone gave Hillary a huge edge over every other candidate other than maybe John Edwards.
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2bad
I'll be takin these Huggies and any cash ya got.
12:54 PM on 06/02/2008
You're absolutely right. If America had known Hillary Clinton was coming into a Presidential nomination feeling that the country owed it to her, it would have been different. If they had known she was going to act like a spoiled 5 year old that didn't get her way, it would have been different. If the country had known she was going to side with the Republicans against her own party during the nomination process, it would have been different.

Need I go on?
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Lemeritus
Been there, done that, lived to tell
10:03 AM on 06/02/2008
Here's what we know about Florida:
- The Democrats (for better or worse) allowed themselves to be taken hostage on a Republican bill that provided for paper trails in electionss (how could the Dems refuse?) and which also moved the election date.
- BOTH candidates were on the ballot tho neither candidate "technically" campaigned there -- Clinton did make a private fund-raising event and Obama aired an ad in a "different" market which was certain to be seen in Florida.

Here's what we know about Michigan:
- The Michigan Democratic Party applied to move their election to a time closer to Iowa and New Hampshire's because New Hampshire always gets to go first and presumably that's unfair because Michigan comes first in the alphabet (ask any 2nd grader).
- Clinton left her name on the ballot even though she said in New Hampshire that the votes didn't count. The other candidates removed their names and the Michigan Democratic Party didn't see a problem with that.

Here's what we know about all primaries and caucuses in retrospect:
If we knew then what we know now, everything would be so much different.
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09:04 AM on 06/02/2008
In Virginia's open primary, Republicans and Republican leaning Indeps. voted for Obama. Those votes were more anti-Clinton votes than pro-Obama votes. In Novemebr those people will vote for McCain.
Hillary Clinton has more democrats voting for her than Obama, yet with the non-uniform rules from state to state, we have allowed the republican party to influence the results and therefore the nomination.
If Obama can not unite the democratic party and in fact he and his supporters have divided it more, how can he unite the entire country?
Change we can live without.
09:54 AM on 06/02/2008
I like how all of a sudden Obama's the one who has divided the party, when clintion is running around saying, he has a problem with Hispanic voters, and "blue Collar" voters...etc, etc, and going on TV saying the MCcai would be more qualified (or ready to be pres) than he would. But he is the one who is dividing the party. Give me a break, these people did not have to vote for obama, there wher 6-7 other people on that ballot they could have voted for. So don't give me the **ish, Just cause you may not vote for him don't speak for others. And it is not all on Obama to Unite the party, all this time he has been trying to include CLinton in every thing. He speaking highly of her and she goes right behind him and speaks of empty unity. Her own staff has said "it is Clinton first, the party second" so who is dividing the party now
10:49 AM on 06/02/2008
The Clinton spin is becoming increasingly nauseating, the goal posts have been moved to accomodate the Clintons every step of the way. The ultimate insult is the Clintons habitual practice of playing gutter politics while playing the victim. If anything Sen. Obama and his surrugates have been too passive. Imagine if the Obama camp elected to throw the kitchen sink back at her and exposed some of her baggage such as her communist affiliations, her dissastrous health care plan, questionable pardons, indifferance to Rwanda, Nafta, membership to a religious cult (Fellowship), "screw 'em" comment about Reagan dems, and her increasing pattern of dishonesty.

Instead Sen Obama has played nice, yet the Clintonians are treating the primaries like a NFL rivalry and are willing to dismiss the vitality of this nation by rooting for the other team (McSame). I would be embarrassed to file behind such supporters who are entirely drunken on entitlement
08:40 AM on 06/02/2008
This is an important point, and one that has been rarely raised before -- a "slow start" to the the primary season is the only way that someone with no initial name recognition can win a primary, whether we're talking about Bill Clinton in 1992, or Barack Obama in 2008.
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07:16 AM on 06/02/2008
Enjoyed your comment Paul. I read your column for years in Newsday. Keep the faith!
08:40 AM on 06/02/2008
after all-out campaigning, outspending Hillary 4 to 1, Obama lost PA, TX, OH.
10:02 AM on 06/02/2008
if you were so concerned did you donate to hillary to help her out. i notice that when ever he does not when she always points to the money he spent. She is just mad that to this day he has out raised her by every metric. the point is not that he lost it it by how much he lost considering in each of those state, he was less well known and HAD the money to spend to try and get his name out and in OH, and PA he was down by 20 points or more and brought it within 10, texas he brought it within 5 points. I will give you point if you can tell me where He was ahead by that much and she came with in 10 Points.......I'm waiting. Exactly He was up in NC by 20-25 points i believe and he still beat her by 16 points. Hey maybe if she HAD more money, she could have competed. Stop Hatin'. I like how people like to talk about his losses even though he spent alot of money, but who is the one in debt? When she needed to win big in NC and IN, to make a real good case that he can't win where was she?, Yes she won In but by 2 points in IN. Again maybe if she HAD some money, she could have over taken him or got a bigger lead.
05:22 AM on 06/02/2008
The buried Michigan and Florida mess...why rules SHOULD NOT MATTER, especially when the mess was implemented by the republican party.
01:42 AM on 06/02/2008
Why not have the states vote in order based on electoral college votes? Alaska, North Dakota, and Wyoming would go first and California, Texas, and New York would go last. All of the states would vote in turn, with each primary getting bigger and bigger.

That way, the lesser known candidates would actually have a chance of competing and people in smaller states would actually have a voice. Also, barring a landslide, the nomination would still be up in the air until the very end, rather than being decided at the beginning of February, only one month in to the race. What a novel concept - allowing voters to make an informed decision.

Of course, campaigning in Alaska in January would really suck, but you do what you gotta do.
07:31 AM on 06/02/2008
That's brilliant! Best idea I've heard so far!
08:54 AM on 06/02/2008
it seems to me that that is the general sense of what is done now. HOWEVER, to let all the small states eliminate candidates that would have greater appeal in larger states makes no sense either. the way it is done now, there are 4 pretty small and diverse states , NH, Iowa, South Carolina, and Nevada, which get a head start, meet the candidate face to face, and basically eliminate all but 2 or 3 candidates, and then the bigger states are allowed their input. By primary in order of lest electoral votes, you would a) make minority candidates have a more difficult road to climb, as most small state stend to be less diverse, and b) give them way more power, when in fact they alrready have more than they should ( each voter in a small state already gets more of a percentage of an electoral vote than one in a large state).
I think it works fine like it is, but it takes candidates willing to respect the process and states willing to play by the rules
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paganmist
Girl gamer geek armchair activist
01:28 AM on 06/02/2008
The order of the states was a "No Kerry" insurance policy.

This year, the DNC had a plan to make sure that we didn't run another Kerry. He became the front-runner early into the primaries. Without competition, he wasn't properly tested or vetted. And because of that, we LOST.

So the DNC crafted a nominating schedule. It took them a YEAR to do it. The plan was this:

Make the first four states small ones. Four states that had a decent mix of demographics. Let them get up close with the candidates. Make sure that no candidate has the opportunity to become a front-runner without being tested and vetted.

Then mix in medium/larger states. Drag out the competition so that more (if not all) states have a say this election. Make it a REAL competition, not a cake-walk. Whichever Dem that makes it will have been weighed and measured.

It was a good strategy. Just compare this year to the past ones. More states counted this year than EVER. And both candidates? Have been beaten mercilessly by the media and the public. Both candidates are more ready than Kerry EVER was. The DNC DID THEIR JOB.

Now if only MI/FL had've been team players. But they wanted fame. Screw the bigger picture, they wanted to have an "impact".

Ironically, had they stayed in line, they would've had a more significant impact than those four "early states" combined.

Good job, MI/FL! *applause*
02:54 AM on 06/02/2008
I DID enjoy the irony!! Nevertheless, It's a shame that the powerbrokers rooked the voters out of a real opportunity to have their say.
08:30 AM on 06/02/2008
it's too pitiful that DEMS are not counting the votes of all who went to the polls. the only reason Obama's name wasn't on the ballot is because he took it off because he knew he wasn't going to win. no DEM rule required that. just as he barely campaigned in WVA and KY and lost PA and OH even though he outspent Hillary 4 to 1.

and if rules are more important that votes then the committee has to explain two things:

1) what rule gave the committee the right to take 4 delegates from Hillary Clinton (delegates that had been duly elected to represent her) and give them to Obama.

2) what rule allowed the committee to give the 'uncommitted' delegates to Obama.

answer: NONE.

the rules (Rule 11) provided that the sanction for violating the schedule was that the Committee could take 1/2 their votes (Rule 20).

instead of applying the rule to take 1/2 votes, the committee last august decided to impose the extraordinary sanction of taking all their votes and created the mess that resulted.

american citizens voted. no committee can take those votes from them. we know the outcome of those contests. both primaries were certified according to law by the secretaries of state of the state of FL and MI.
09:05 AM on 06/02/2008
Obama didn't take his name off because he feared losing, he took his name off (i believe) because he couldn't campaign (kind of like taking your name out of a contest that you can't play in). What was the reason the hillary's people approved refusing to acknowledge the results or seat delegates, and what was her reason for signing the pledge that she wouldn't accept the delegates won in any nonsanctioned primary might yield? Because she thought that she didn't need them, and if she decided she did, she would simply ignore her word?

I certainly doio not KNOW the outcomes of those elections ( in michigan 41% of people who KNEW that the primary was not supposed to count, still went out to vote AGAINST Hillary, 238,000, and 38,000 more wrote in votes that were not counted), as I know that in order to have a fair election, candidates have to be able to campaign, and people need to know that their votes are supposed to count. Maybe hillary can still win florida for Gore in 2000 though I don't remember her making any fuss, or being around when the congresswoman (tubbs?) needed just ONE SENATOR to sign a challenge to the Ohio/general election results in 2004. I guess she didn't care so much about the votes then, when her job was safe, and the result left her future unblocked.
12:29 AM on 06/02/2008
No, wait. This makes too much sense.
12:19 AM on 06/01/2008
I think that one thing that the Clinton and Obama supporters can agree on is that the primary system is a mess. We are lucky this time that Obama won. I think the DNC needs to create a new system of caucuses and primaries that allows for more than Iowa and New Hampshire to get retail politics. This primary system with that ridiculous super Tuesday primary of Feb. 5th should never happen again.
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12:41 AM on 06/01/2008
As a Californian, I've long felt letting Iowa and New Hampshire decide our candidate to be a ridiculous way to select our candidate, although I do recognize the intent to give us all time to learn more about the candidates.

Wouldn't it be nice if there were a definite start date for national primary campaigning that would run for a couple of months, include debates and rallies and town hall meetings all over the country, culminating in a national primary?

Let them make their case to us but cease making some of us more equal than others due to our geographic location.
09:15 AM on 06/02/2008
if states like my Pa. or your Ca. were the first states, campaigning would ALL be about TV ads, which means it would all be about early money, making the candidates even more beholden to big business(people don't send in money on the internet BEFORE a candidate begins to campaign). In the little states (NH, Iowa,) the candidates have to go sit in people's living rooms to get their votes, a sort of pre-interview if you like. The big states like ours, have plenty of power when the general election comes.
I prefer a system where the candidate has to actually meet and talk to people, not get ad execs to make good ads.
01:45 AM on 06/01/2008
I agree with you, BIll, that the Democratic primary system is a mess. But I disagree with you in the sense that it should be replaced not with a new system of caucuses and primaries, but that it be replaced with a system of primaries, period. None of them occurring before the beginning of April of the year of the federal election. The concept of Superdelegates should be abolished and if the nominee has to vacate the campaign before the party convention, then the nomination goes to the second highest vote-getter.

And then, in the Federal Election, it should be popular vote only and the Electoral College should be completely abolished.
03:05 AM on 06/02/2008
I agree given one refinement: the primary season should last four months. In each month a set of states from differing regions whose aggregate delegate count was approximately one fourth of the total. The state would choose any date in the given month. The groupings would remain the same between each reapportionment and be re-grouped after eqach census. The groups themselves would rotate through the four-month period.

Thus, no one state or region would have signifiantly more clout or visibility (read Iowa and New hampshire).
11:52 PM on 05/31/2008
I being to feel like something is going on that we are not privy to. " It's the end of the world as we know it." Is there anyone on the same page?
11:28 PM on 05/31/2008
What's funny is the story keeps being spun that the DNC is sanctioning MI and FL. The reality is those two states decided to pull out of the primary process. For them to be seated at all is a gift by the DNC, not a sanction. I do have to admit I'm enjoying all the hilarious hyperbole and self-martyrdom by the Hillary-ites. Maybe they can line the road to the convention with themselves on crosses, continually wailing of their self-inflicted mistreatment.

Doesn't anyone believe decisions have consequences anymore??
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11:09 PM on 05/31/2008
"Why dock Florida's delegates? For a relatively unknown challenger like Obama, taking on someone as massively visible as Clinton, in-person campaigning is essential, and he had no chance to do it there."

Barack Obama has been a household word since 2004. And he DID campaign in Florida.
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paganmist
Girl gamer geek armchair activist
12:59 AM on 06/02/2008
He has not!? I didn't know who he was. My family didn't know who he was. My FRIENDS didn't know who he was. My co-workers didn't know who he was. My ex-coworkers from last job didn't know who he was.

There are tons of people on this board who didn't know who he was. Obviously, people in California didn't know who he was.

A household word? On what planet? Obviously you're trying to suggest that he didn't deserve the opportunity to campaign, or that the florida elections were somehow fair. Nice try, but you're really reaching here.

A household word? Maybe where you're from.

As for the Florida bit - he didn't campaign. Ads ran on a national television station.

That's far different from being Hillary Clinton, Wife Of President Bill Clinton.

She had all the cards stacked for her at the beginning. Florida wasn't a fair election. And you should be ashamed of yourself for trying to suggest that it was.
08:29 AM on 06/02/2008
Well said it is just more lies than if said often enough some will believe it , this has been proven since 2003 and continues today
11:03 PM on 05/31/2008
Glad this is on the main page today. You make some excellent, common sense points, points that, I am sure, were not lost on the committee who met today.