Let's Have a Beer and Talk About Michael Vick
I recently wrote a HuffPost piece stating that Michael Vick has a right to work, but the NFL owners have an equal right not to hire him. Some agreed. Some did not. Some were angry. One asked: "Who died and made you the moral compass of the NFL?"
It drew well over 500 responses -- surprising for something that has been in the news constantly for two years now. This is a man and a story that did not touch a nerve in America; it grabbed whole bundles of nerves and jumped rope with them.
In single lines and long paragraphs, the rolling conversation swirled through race, redemption, second chances and gross hypocrisy.
No surprise that race came up. But at a time when race is just a front-porch confrontation away from another round of national examination, it did not come nearly as often as other points.
- We all know the real reason why Mike Vick is taking such a bashing, even AFTER he has served his time. Pure and simple, it's because he's a Black man in Amerikkka making more money than a lot us will see in a life time!
- What does the fact that he's black have to do with it? ... please don't attempt to excuse his viciousness because he's black. That's appalling.- Was this a racial issue when the crime was committed?. NO. But too often our collective racial history ... affects attitudes, commentary and ultimately the judgment of the public.
Many argued for perspective. What Michael Vick did was horrible. But others have done far worse -- such as government leaders who start disastrous wars, and then leave town.
-I mean, yes, it's cruel. But at least he didn't abuse children or solicit sex from minors like so many of your politicians who still work in politics.
- ... close to 6,000 dead, ten of thousands injured, and not yet one WMD has been found in Iraq besides the ones we took there. Bush is making speeches and money with all that blood on his hands. What's your take on that?- Did you think Martha Stewart should get a chance at reclaiming her livelihood?
- I guess if he had created a financial meltdown, he could have avoided going to jail because it is not illegal to lend money on worthless loans - just immoral.
- I don't care what Vick did to those dogs, it has nothing what so ever to do with the profession of football or his ability to be trusted playing that game. ... Keep him out of PETA instead, or the veterinarian or breeding professions.
Most comments by far were about fairness and forgiveness. Two years in jail and a lost fortune is enough. Michael Vick should be allowed to work in the NFL. Some said one more chance - but only one. Others said: only a select few get one chance to play in the NFL; he blew that chance forever.
-.... as repugnant as the crime was, punishment was handed out that had been determined fit the crime. That's the way the system works
- What if he was a truly excellent package deliverer for FedEx? Would it bother you that he return to FedEx after doing his time/paying his debt to society? Football is what the man does.- What I propose is to take a portion of his revenue for the rest of his career. This would be much like an alimony payment for the benefit of animal rights everywhere
- All of this hyper outrage because animals are involved makes me sick. ... Now if Vick gets caught doing this again, I say bury him under the jail
- (You have fallen for) the oldest trick in the Hollywood book- you never, ever kill the dog. The audience will never let you live it down
- I watched a show ... about death row prisoners. One of the prisoners said something that has stayed in my mind ... "How can you be sorry for something you intended to do?"
- Mr. Vick's hobby was an ongoing, serial enterprise. And he'd be enjoying it today if only he hadn't got caught by those meddling busybodies who ruined his good time.
- How many slams does it take to kill a dog?
Many saw pure hypocrisy, and on multiple fronts.
- (People are) raking Vick over the coals while not saying a peep about those who accidentally killed humans and got back on the field without nearly as much "outrage".
- Don't you dare lecture us on Michael Vick's exceptional brutality towards living beings. It's a prerequisite of his job.
- This is a clear instance of animal lovers who either A) Don't know jack about the NFL or B) Can't see straight from huffing too many flea collars running their mouths.
- (I'll think about this) as I eat my steak.
- Hey look at those leather shoes. Those used to be a living breathing animal. Hey look at that chicken taco you're eating. That used to be a living, breathing animal.
- An NFL team will indeed pick up Vick and the answer is easy. Money. Winning games sells tickets and merchandise and beer.
If the responses were votes, Michael Vick would be at practice right now -- did the crime, served the time, let him move on. For many, however, that second chance would be a one-time offer -- meaning he will have to check for cell-phone cameras before he swats a fly. Those who argue that systematic animal torture for fun and profit deserves a permanent ban -- and, sorry, I remain among them -- were a passionate minority.
But what about the votes that count? USAToday.com reports that 27 of 32 teams -- most citing team needs and best wishes -- have said: not interested.
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Read "Pros and Cons: The Criminals Who Play In The NFL." Explains much of why Vick is back in the NFL. My take on this is that Obama changes nothing. The race pimps are alive and well.
Michael Vick is a certifiable sociopath; to my knowledge, there is no known cure for sociopathic personality disorder. As for spending 18 months behind bars to atone for his crimes, a lifetime behind bars isn't going to rehabilitate a Michael Vick. Nothing can ever fill the black hole in this man's brain or spirit where empathy and compassion are supposed to live.
Maybe someday, when pharmaceutical companies decide to stop wasting research money on re-designing “designer drugs” to enhance their marketability to old geezers who can’t get it up anymore, and get down to the business of finding cures for neurologically based mental illnesses like sociopathy and schizophrenia…maybe then we can find a safe way to re-integrate people like Michael Vick into society. Until then, the very least we can do is refuse to reward them with multi-million dollar sports contracts and the hysterical adulation and outrageous perks that celebrity confers.
So, right you are.
It's safe to assume serial killers are sociopaths. But someone who goes along with a culture he grew up in? Hardly.
Hey author:
Did you read today's article? Vick has a football deal. I'm waiting 4 you to explode in anger. Ummm...I thought he wasn't going to get a deal...according to your article. I betcha feel real silly.
Fanned. I love how the related news right below her smug comment is "Vick signs deal with Eagles"
I have news for you:
If FIVE NFL teams are interested in you, you're going to get signed (and get a pretty good deal). Hell, in any other business, if FIVE firms are interested in you you're going to make bank.
If anyone really thinks Mike Vick won't be playing for an NFL team this fall, they really dont know sports and they really haven't been paying attention to all the years in the past when teams say "not interested", just to see that player holding up one of the teams that said it, jersey the following week. Please....keep thinking because Jerry Jones said "not interested" that he actually means that. LOL, the sports media is just trying to drive a story, let them tell it I guess every team is black-balling Warrick Dunn, Derrick Brooks, Simeon Rice and Marvin Harrison too. Ya think that's the case?
Two things,
1. To those who claim this is about race. They are about to execute a black man in GA by the name of Troy Davis. If racial justice is your concern, worry about that.
The people who hate Vick wouldn't care if he were orange. They hate all humans, black or white or brown. They need the love of living creatures who cannot judge them and thus project their emotions into animals.
Any white player who did the same thing would be treated the same way...perhaps worse, since some are defending dog fighting as part of the culture he grew up in...
2. To those who care so much about Vick.
Could you please stop trying to pretend why you are upset about Vick. You aren't worried about the integrity of football or the NFL. You don't care when criminals get any other jobs. When is the last time you protested someone who was released from prison getting a job?
Please just admit that animals are your priorities. You do not care about human life.
If you did, you wouldn't have time to worry about whether Vick plays another NFL game...you would be too busy worrying about whether Donte Stallworth plays another NFL game.
I meant that Donovan McNabb will be kicking his dog (figuratively speaking) tonight...out of frustration that the Eagles are trying to give his starting job to Michael Vick...the newest member of the Philadephia Eagles.
Actually the only way Vick ever plays for the eagles is in a Wildcat-esque scheme. There's no way he takes the job from McNabb.
Peggy, reading all the comments you received concerning your article, it is obvious that there is a lack of balance in this country between the basic caring for humans (homeless people sleeping in cardboxes in NY city, in the midst of the winter). and the misplaced priority which puts any animal on the same level than humans (shameful). I am a dog lover who always owned dogs and I've raised my kids to love and treat animals in a humane manner. But there is such an hypocrisy in this country as the Vick saga is being discussed and removing race from this discussion is akin to those dismissing the racial implications of the brief Gates/Crowley affair. There are still cockfights and dog fights in the deep south patronized mostly by whites. Where is PETA and the concept of equal and fair justice in those red states? In this country, there are uneven application of the laws, one "justice" for the ethnic majority and another for the minorities. To deny or dismiss this reality that has been fairly well documented is as potent a statement as saying that blacks and Hispanics are not harassed and stopped while driving to a greater extent than whites. Obama never apologized for his pointed statement concerning this issue, which remains true. So, Vick paid his time like the Manson women who have been released and he should be left alone and your attention need to be directed to those still practicing those vicious fights.
whether it's pulling the wings off flies, raping a woman or child, or watching dogs rip each other to pieces (and feeding them kittens to get a taste for it), there is something pathological about a human who ENJOYS inflicting pain and terror on another living creature (something i don't think can be said for soldiers or abattoir workers) that makes us recoil.
yes, mr vick served his time. but are we convinced that the inclination to relish and profit from cruelty has been eradicated from his psyche?
I consider myself an animal rights activist of sorts and have written and spoken out on factory farming and other animal cruelty issues. However I'm also an American.
What Michael Vick did was horrifyingly immoral, but if our laws say he's paid his debt to society, I've got to say I don't have to like the man, but he has a right to work. If I had to work with him, I'd do so civilly.
If his crime had been a crime against the integrity of the game: gambling on games he played in or steroids I think a lifetime ban can be appropriate. But this is a separate issue. Just because I feel passionately about it, doesn't mean it isn't separate.
Most rational point of view I've seen.
Fanned. Exactly the point all these people are missing. Our laws do say that he's paid his debt. If he had violated a law of the game--cheating, among other things--then he'd deserve punishment by the league. But the fact that he was/is punished at all is a little much, IMO.
Vick will not be able to pull the wool over the eyes of the coaches and team owners again. It is vick who sealed the deal for himself not playing football again. That is just the way it is sports fans.
Vick is a done deal to the dismay of all his creditors.
Really? So his creditors, that actually shook his hand and said congratulations are under the misguided impression he will play again?? Oh....yeah..ok...they couldn't possibly know something that YOU don't. LOL
Rofl. And you're proved wrong.
That's just the way it is crazy radical ALF member who has no idea what the real world is anymore.
If people in this country cared about dogs the way they care about people, we'd have universal healthcare. A dog gives unconditional love because it doesn't know any better, it's instinctual. That doesn't make them more worthy of compassion than our fellow humans. Michael Vick deserves a little more compassion from his fellow humans. Justice shouldn't be about revenge or retribution.
Let's have a beer and talk about the thousands of men and women who worked on Wall Street and defrauded the Government and citizens but still making a nice living.
Let's have a beer and talk about the people who fashioned a web of deceit in the Government but are out and about making a nice living for themselves as Government Lobbyist
Let's have a beer and talk about the people who permitted the United States to torture innocent civilians around the world and our currently making a nice living somewhere.
Let's have a beer and talk about former chief executive of Union Carbide Corp. Warren Anderson,who is wanted for the Bhopal gas disaster in India but is hiding out in New York, making a nice living.
Yeah Let's talk.
Indeed. Perspective, please?
I used to have the most beautiful, intelligent, gentle and trustworthy female pit bull ever and got a lot of compliments on her when I would take her out. Consequently I met quite a few people who wanted my dogs puppies that I would not sell them to. But we became friends in spite of that . What I found interesting about the pit bull fighting scene (back in the day when I used to buy dog food from someone who had fighting dogs) was the similarity between these (mostly black) dogfighters and southern american slave owners. Some are worse than others and according to what I heard about Vick, he was one of the worse ones.
Few people seem to get that fans want to love their quaterback. More than any other position, he is the "General", the leader. And owners want to have butts in the seats and eyeballs glued to the TV screen, cheering.
Vick has paid his debt to society and should be able to play. But he has confronted team owners with an unprecidented challenge. Having a lineman who has beaten his wife or gotten a DWI and killed someone, while more serious than cruelty to dogs, is easier for a fan to overlook because that player is not the soul of the team. He's not the quaterback. And though crimes against people are more seroius they can also be seen as crimes of passion and/or mistakes. There was something about Vick's repeated, hands-on cruelty that was disturbing.
The owner of a team has to figure in how much of his fanbase will be "turned off" from rooting for his team if Vick is their quarterback. People who think it's "all about winning" are wrong. People love thier dogs. They want to love their quarterback. Vick has done his time, but can he be loved and rooted for by the fans? He isn't as valuable as an attraction on the field as he was. So what's he worth? It's up to the marketplace, and unfortunately for him, the marketplace is 32 NFL owners. My guess would be he ends up with the Raiders at 1/4 of his previous salary.
Then he is limited to a 25 million dollar contract.
Sweet! I got quoted! (Don't you dare lecture us on Michael Vick's exceptional brutality towards living beings. It's a prerequisite of his job.)
To be fair the larger point I was making was that NFL players are working class people who earn about what the average factory worker earns over the course of similar careers (average NFLer earns 1.4 million over their career, the equivalent of 35K a year for 40 years, and that there's a clear class bias wherein the professional class (petit bourgeois, for you Marxists out there.) cares more for the brutality of puppy mills and dog fighting rings than the NFL and the class stratification of the availability of family planning and own-body sovereignty. This goes as far as insurance companies listing gender dysphoria as an un-coverable and pre-existing condition, but I digress.
Basically I'm more concerned about intra-species inhumanity when people are willfully blind to it, as compared to inter species inhumanity.
One other note: Many of those teams that say they don't want Michael Vick don't want him because the PR benefits of saying they don't want someone they have no use for, far outweigh the possible offense to Mr. Vick at this time. Do you think the Pittsburgh Steelers would say they wanted Michael Vick, for example? No. They have a serviceable quarterback.
An NFL player is free to work after his career is over for the same wages I make plus he got millions for his time in the league. If I quit after 4 years and you average my pay over 40 years, I look bad off too. No one offered me a free college education or the contacts made during college and NFL.
no. michael vick's "exceptional brutality" did not give him license to be brutal toward "living beings", but only toward other nfl players who had made the same agreement. i m not a boxing fan, but if spinx and ali agreed (even with spinx biting his ear off) to beat the crap out of each other, i agree, it's a prerequisite for their job..
it's another thing entirely to assume that everyone/thing plays by the same "rules", and that vick could impose them on other "living beings".
would you like him to impose them on you?
sorry, it wasn't ali spinx bit the ear of but...hollman?
as i said...i'm not into boxing
Holyfield. Jesus christ do some research. Muhammad Ali hadn't been fighting for decades before that happened.
That would've taken a ten second google.
I think anybody playing any professional sports and getting paid what they do, should be barred from playing in there sport if they commit a crime. These athletes are paid very high sums of money for a very short career. Act like professionals!
"if they commit a crime."
So, say I get cited for speeding. That's committing a crime. Should I never be allowed to play again? Where do you draw the line? Citation? Misdemeanor? Felony?
"Act like professionals!"
Nearly everyone's a professional something. Should felons always be barred from their chosen career? Or only selectively, like if they're a sports star. Say, movie stars are pretty big news, should we make a law saying they can't act "if they commit a crime"?
Why do you hold sports stars up to some impossible standard that they and only they have to live up to? They are fallible human beings as much as the rest of us. Just because you idolized the jocks when you were in high school, and their athletic ability strikes a chord in you, doesn't mean that they are gods.
It's thanks to people like you that they're way, way overpaid. Don't get me wrong, I love all my teams, and I love sport. It's just the deification of our pro athletes in this country is part of all that is wrong in the world.
"Nearly everyone's a professional something. Should felons always be barred from their chosen career? " You should have really read my comment.
"It's thanks to people like you that they're way, way overpaid." No really far from that. If I really felt that way, why would I have posted what I did?
"Why do you hold sports stars up to some impossible standard that they and only they have to live up to?" It is not impossible to stay out of trouble. You may find it to be, but most others do not.
The reason the 27 teams are not interested is because they are a bunch of cowards and are afraid PETA will 'red paint' their headquarters like they do to people who wear fur coats. PETA is a loud mouth organization that tries to intimidate people if you do not believe what they do. What Michael Vick did was wrong and he paid dearly for it. This is a country that prides itself on giving second chances but if you are a black man in this country, and I cringe in saying this, the whole attidude is you do not deserve a second chance. It is even worse when you are in the public eye and making money. It seems that making money is your second chance, so if you get in trouble it's all over for you.
Electing Barack Obama did not change that mindset
What a bunch of cr@p! If Vick was white, asain, or native American people would still be outraged. What he did to these animals is unforgivable.
This is NOT about race!!!!! This is NOT about race. Sorry for repeating but I was afraid you might skip over my point in your rush to make this story and its outcome ABOUT RACE. This is about a man who killed innocent animals, brutally killed them, FOR FUN. And that is all this is about. I don't have to forgive him for that. I just don't.
It is about race. It is entirely about race and has been so from the very beginning. If Michael Vick were white, the insane, violent outrage that has surrounded this case would not be out there in the public. America has a history of justice meted out very specifically toward Black people. Men, women and children have been tortured and lynched in a particularly bloody and violent time in this nation's history.
White athletes have been celebrated for their sociopath behaviors. They have been celebrated for cheating. Anyone who says that I am wrong on this point simply has not read the literature and knows little or nothing about the history of sport and the "heroes" thereof.
Read the lit, there's plenty of it.
You are 100% right.
I live in the NY area and there were a lot of whtie people who were mad at George Steinbrenner when he singed Dwight Gooden and Darryl Strawberry after their drug troubles. But they didn't say sh*t when he kept giving Steve Howe, who died in 2006 from years of drug abuse, chance after chance after chane after he was suspended 7 times from Major League baseball.
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