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Philip Clayton, Ph.D.

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Does the Higgs Boson Discovery Resolve the Religion-Science Debate?

Posted: 07/06/2012 10:36 am

Yeah, right.

One important thing did happen this week: one of the most interesting searches in physics, launched 48 years ago, hit the jackpot. For fundamental physics as we conceive it today to stand the test, a certain kind of a force field (the Higgs field) had to exist; and if it existed, then a certain kind of particle (the Higgs boson) could be measured under very specific conditions. The only trouble was, when the prediction was made, it was almost unimaginable that humans could ever recreate those conditions. This week, two separate groups of physicists announced that the Higgs boson, or something very much like it, does exist. In fact, they met the highest standard humans have ever held up for knowledge: the odds of their being wrong are less than one in 3.5 million.

If you share any of the amazement of the great discoveries of science, this one will grab your attention. It's high-stakes either way: If the Higgs boson didn't appear, then particle physics couldn't explain why anything in the universe has mass -- a rather devastating shortcoming! On the other side, once we can detect signs of the Higgs field, we stand on the threshold of host of new discoveries about the fundamentals of physics.

And what did we learn this week about the relationship between science and religion? Ah, now there's an interesting question.

Strong religious and anti-religious language has swirled around the search for the Higgs boson. One group took to calling it "the God particle." After all, they said, the Higgs boson is the foundation on which the standard model of physics rests. Not only that; the Higgs field adds real mass to pure energy, so it's like the moment of creation. "Baloney!" replied the other group; we should just call it "the God-damn particle," since it's been so bloody difficult to detect over so many years.

In the huge hype that has broken out over the last few days, you can see the whole pattern of religion-science discussions in microcosm:

  1. Scientists make an important discovery. They are exuberant -- and rightfully so: people work a lifetime for moments like this.

  2. Scientists start saying big things about where this takes science. The first comments are about breakthroughs in particle physics. But as the champagne kicks in, you start to hear slurry-tongued statements about how the Higgs search shows the superiority of physics over all other forms of knowledge.

  3. Then the pundits step in. "No," says the one group, "the God-particle reminds us that creation is ultimately in the hands of God; we will never overcome the fundamental mystery of our origins." "Wrong," retorts the other group, "this week represents the triumph of humanism. There is absolutely no need for God in the age of science."

  4. All hell breaks lose. "There's no God (damn) particle," writes Tony Phillips. "The Higgs boson is another nail in the coffin of religion," expounds Oxford's Peter Atkins on BBC. "Will the Higgs boson give rise to a new religion, a new god?" asks the Hindustan Times.

The perfect example of this debate was played out in a Colbert interview with Lawrence Krauss recently; it's worth re-watching in the wake of the Higgs. Krauss, the New Atheist, touts his new book, "A Universe from Nothing." There are three kinds of nothing, he insists, and according to the laws of quantum mechanics, each one left to itself will produce the something that we see around us. "It sounds like the ultimate free lunch," Krauss admits, but there you have it; it's just science. "The universe is more remarkable than the fairy tales that were talked about by Bronze Age illiterate peasants."

"Why does it have to be an attack on my God?" Colbert asks. "There's just no evidence for God," replies Krauss, "All I've said is that you don't need Him." Colbert, as always, gets the last word, however. Suppose that something always comes from nothing. "If there is no God, no 'thing' called God, if He is nothing," concludes Colbert, then by your own theory "can't something come from Him?"

When they announced the discovery of physics' most elusive particle this week, scientists didn't overreach. They just did damn good science. The fans and the foes of religion, by contrast, are overreaching on both sides. The quest for the Higgs boson, and its ultimate discovery, neither proves nor disproves God.

"The poor you will always have with you," Jesus is reputed to have said. He could have added, "and debates about science and religion as well." The quest for the Higgs came to a decisive end this week. The quest to understand science and God will not end as abruptly.

 
 
 

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Yeah, right. One important thing did happen this week: one of the most interesting searches in physics, launched 48 years ago, hit the jackpot. For fundamental physics as we conceive it today to stan...
Yeah, right. One important thing did happen this week: one of the most interesting searches in physics, launched 48 years ago, hit the jackpot. For fundamental physics as we conceive it today to stan...
 
 
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05:11 AM on 08/30/2012
Higgs Boson / “God Particle” -2012 Science validates a 150+ year old discovery ……….Steve Meyer / New Thought Movement / HolisticDNA

This definition of New Thought / The New Thought Movement represents an excellenet summary from Wikipedia, and I agree wtih 98% of it. The other 2% – I believe that sickness can start in the mind and/or the body; not just the mind, and that “God” is a religous manufactured term and description of what is actually Infinite Intelligence....

“New Thought promotes the ideas that “Infinite Intelligence” or “God” is ubiquitous, spirit is the totality of real things, true human selfhood is divine, divine thought is a force for good, sickness originates in the mind, and “right thinking” has a healing effect.Although New Thought is neither monolithic nor doctrinaire, in general modern day adherents of New Thought believe that “God” or “Infinite Intelligence” is “supreme, universal, and everlasting”, that divinity dwells within each person, that all people are spiritual beings, that “the highest spiritual principle [is] loving one another unconditionally … and teaching and healing one another”, and that “our mental states are carried forward into manifestation and become our experience in daily living”.

The New Thought movement is a spiritually-focused or philosophical interpretation of New Thought beliefs. Started in the early 19th century, today the movement consists of authors, philosophers, and individuals who share a set of beliefs concerning metaphysics, positive thinking, the law of attraction, healing, life force, creative visualization, and personal power.
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Jacob Aud
08:55 AM on 08/28/2012
HIGGS BOSON - now more reason to consider the possibility of the Bible's miracles?

Are Miracles Really Possible? 3 Common Objections

OBJECTION 1: Miracles are impossible because they violate the laws of nature.

Our understanding of the laws of nature is based on what scientists have observed happening in the natural world around us. However, those laws are similar to the grammar rules for a language—there may be some exceptions to the rule.Our understanding of these “rules” may, in fact, be very limited. (Job 38:4)

A dedicated scientist may have spent a lifetime studying a certain law of nature. But all it takes is one "exception” for him to have to reevaluate his understanding of that law.

As the saying goes, “Just one black swan undoes the theory that all swans are white.”

PDF Download:
http://download.jw.org/files/media_magazines/wp_E_20120801.pdf
Online Magazine:
http://www.youblisher.com/p/350148-MIRACLES-do-they-really-happen/
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05:19 PM on 08/28/2012
God, Supernaturally could engage nature by pre-quantum fluctuation or spontaneous generation or punctuated equilibrium...
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01:14 AM on 08/16/2012
the higgs boson brings mass to the universe (as do Catholics but that's another kind)... but in the beginning before time its possible there was no energy density at all so no higgs mechanism.
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12:24 AM on 08/14/2012
God is spiritual in nature.
11:59 AM on 07/16/2012
Earth's crammed with heaven,
And every common bush afire with God;
But only he who sees, takes off his shoes,
The rest sit round it and pluck blackberries,
And daub their natural faces unaware.
ELIZABETH BARRETT BROWNING
11:47 AM on 07/16/2012
Christianity requires not only faith but reasoning...God feels the most important organ given to us is the brain, along with that is the gift of free will to decide how (or if) we will serve HIM...to willfully submit that gift of free will unto others... especially with that brain He provided us is to render unto Caesar that which He finds most precious... ourselves.
09:17 AM on 08/01/2012
Reasoning implies weighing evidence. If there is no measurable evidence, how is it reason? If reason is truly the method being used, then of what use is faith? Christians can't have it both ways, you either have faith in what you cannot prove, or you use reason to evaluate evidence. They are not the same.
09:16 PM on 09/01/2012
We can certainly have both faith and reason... It dosn't suprise me that you would make such a feeble minded statement (like the rest of your athiest peers). For example, we have FAITH that our god is there and that there is no scientific evidence proving his existence 100% wrong.. We have REASON to believe because although there is no empirical evidence of gods existence there is also no empirical evidence of love... Are you and other athiests contesting that love dosn't really exist? Also reason comes from whats called the Ontological Argument.. Basically what this argument asserts is that mankind cannot come up with any original idea that isn't even remotely based on something we already know to exist. I'll tell you the same thing I tell the other athiests... Give me an idea that is 100% original and not even remotely based on anything that already exists. Failure to do so would leave your belief with a problem.. Where did the idea of god come from?
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trekie70
Lifelong bibliophile and political junkie
06:19 PM on 07/14/2012
I've never understood why some consider science and religion to be mutually exclusive concepts. Take Newton's Law of Gravity, for example. A scientist can say that the apple falls because of the gravitational field that this planet has. A priest can believe that God caused the Earth to develop that gravitational field which causes the apple to fall when it separates from the tree. Both are right in their own context. There is no real conflict that exists, except the one created by one side or the other.
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Citats
Bring me that horizon.
10:33 AM on 07/15/2012
Except that one is based on obersavtion and evidence and the other on superstition and wishful thinking.
09:15 AM on 08/01/2012
Religion makes distinctly scientific claims and provides no evidence. That is where they diverge and where we'd all be better off if we left behind that last superstition and joined the actual physical world we inhabit.
05:10 PM on 07/14/2012
Nope!
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outsurgency
DC TURF WARS!
03:01 PM on 07/14/2012
Put it this way. Until God undeniably proves himself, he remains unproven, (miracles don't count and neither does blind faith). Now one can undeniably believe in the latter 2 suggestions, but it remains just that, 'belief'. Not 'proof'.
05:55 AM on 07/15/2012
Dear Outsurgency,

Yes, in many definitions of God, God is "unproven" and likely to remain so. If God is in some form manifested as Natural Law, then that is a proven God.

Does God exist? That in part depends on what you mean by "God". Do we need faith to live our lives? Yes. Proof is not necessary for everything. Faith is indispensable.

-Anthony Mannucci
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outsurgency
DC TURF WARS!
12:02 AM on 07/19/2012
But Dear Anthony, I have dispensed of faith at least as it pertains to God anyway. Will I be cast into the Christian version of hell as well all the other versions even though I am not a member of their belief systems? If you ask them they would say yes of course. Of course I'm not asking them either. However on the remote chance they could be right, I'm most willing to take that chance because so much of what they say is pure baloney and I want no part of their system or their God even if it means going to hell thank you. I think I would find it much more pleasant there then dealing with an eternity of sharing heaven with them because they have already proven it's hell here on Earth having to share this planet with them. I do respect their right to choose their own values and ruin their own lives in the process but must protest when they start forcing their misguided values upon others like me. Nothing personal mind you, just thought I'd explain my position for those who still insist on converting me. As they themselves might express, 'it's hopeless'.
12:40 PM on 07/19/2012
Part 1 of 2:
Faith > proof..why? Even if God revealed himself, you have to believe it; otherwise, He's just a good magician. God said if you let Jesus in when he knocks the door, he will come in. Otherwise, his miracles will not stop you from slamming the door on him.

God simply cannot be proven... What proves it for me won't necessarily prove it for you.

You can't see the wind but you can certainly see how the wind affects the trees. God = wind.

Here's a story. I had suffered from asthma for about 6 years. The pollen allergies here in Japan cause my airways to tighten; I don't have asthma when I'm in California.
Last November, it got so bad I had to use my inhaler 6 times a day, which quickly gone from 90 to 13 puffs left. This medicine had been the only thing assuring me I wouldn't die in my sleep but that assurance quickly faded away. I was scared; I have 3 young kids to raise. So one weekend, I knelt down to pray for a miracle.
On Monday, I had an unusual urge to make a bamboo flute. So I got some bamboo and started sawing away; my room was covered in bamboo powder. I inhaled so much of it my saliva turned yellow.
I was so preoccupied making flute after flute that I forgot about my asthma concerns.
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outsurgency
DC TURF WARS!
02:09 AM on 08/15/2012
Carry on. Pleaseeeeeeeeeeee do it with like minded people though. 
01:03 PM on 07/14/2012
Kindly note the Western-centric nexus of this "problem." Rewind 2500 years into south Asia and find Hindu vedas and Buddhist scriptures asserting (experimentally thusfar unverified) atomic particles and integrating this understanding into their respective theologies without contradiction, only a productive millennia of scholarly debates on the reality of existence of universals vs. particulars!

Conclusion: life gets easier when you stop thinking of yourself as an inherently independent entity, with or without God!
05:56 AM on 07/15/2012
Interesting thought!
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Kiri the Unicorn
astronut
10:02 AM on 07/14/2012
Thank you, Dr. Clayton. Your 4-step description of how this (entirely pointless) argument about science and religion erupts and subsequently devolves is right on. Many people seem to care more about being RIGHT than in learning anything.

Last year, a young lady visiting the observatory asked me if I believed in god. She had listened with interest to my description of how nucleosynthesis in stellar cores was the source of every atom heavier than hydrogen, and she asked good questions about the details that required me to reach for my notes.
"Do you believe in God?" she suddenly asked.
Okay: it is incumbent upon me to be polite with the paying customers. I'm there to talk about astronomy, not to trash anybody's religion. I'll argue about Pluto's status, but not God's.
"Probably not in the same way that you do," I said as I noticed her little gold cross on its chain.

She looked at me for a moment, smiling. She knew I was trying to finesse the issue, I could tell.
"Good answer," she said before thanking me and walking away.

That's my instructive parable. The argument ends when everybody decides to stop arguing.
06:00 AM on 07/15/2012
I agree that arguing it not productive. Faith is not amenable to proof. If you have faith, I cannot derail it by saying "prove to me your faith is right." It is faith, and not amenable to such proofs.

But don't go so far as to reject faith as worthless. Our moral foundations are based on faith. We cannot prove the inherent worth of a human being, but my faith in that worth is unwavering and it forms the basis for my morality.

-Anthony Mannucci
08:13 PM on 08/01/2012
Morality is not dependent on religion. I find it frightening that so many people of faith believe that without religion one cannot behave morally and ethically. I think that says a lot about them.
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Jacob Aud
03:49 AM on 07/13/2012
HIGGS BOSON - any more reason to consider the scientific possibility of Bible "miracles"?

Are Miracles Really Possible? 3 Common Objections

OBJECTION 1: Miracles are impossible because they violate the laws of nature.

Our understanding of the laws of nature is based on what scientists have observed happening in the natural world around us. However, those laws are similar to the grammar rules for a language—there may be some exceptions to the rule.Our understanding of these “rules” may, in fact, be very limited. (Job 38:4)

A dedicated scientist may have spent a lifetime studying a certain law of nature. But all it takes is one "exception” for him to have to reevaluate his understanding of that law.

As the saying goes, “Just one black swan undoes the theory that all swans are white.”

PDF Download:
http://download.jw.org/files/media_magazines/wp_E_20120801.pdf
Online Magazine:
http://www.youblisher.com/p/350148-MIRACLES-do-they-really-happen/
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taoistpunk
because the monks wouldn't have me..
09:43 AM on 07/13/2012
PANCAKES WITH SYRUP - any more reason to consider the scientific possibility that jehovahs witnesses cause "rectal cancer"?

Is Induced Rectal Cancer Possible? 3 Common Objections

OBJECTION 1: Religiously induced cancers are impossible because they violate the laws of nature.

Our understanding of the laws of nature is based on what scientists have observed happening in the natural world around us. However, those laws are similar to the grammar rules for a language—there may be some exceptions to the rule. Our understanding of these “rules” may, in fact, be very limited.

A dedicated scientist may have spent a lifetime studying a certain law of nature. But all it takes is one "exception” for him to have to reevaluate his understanding of that law.

As the saying goes, “Just one black swan undoes the theory that all swans are white.”

darn those jehovahs witnesses! like it wasn't bad enough that they're always knocking at my door...
08:19 PM on 07/12/2012
I have no idea why anyone would think that science and religion have anything to do with each other.

Religion deals with things unobservable and Science deals with things observable. The only way a conflict could happen is if one tried to answer something that is in the others domain.
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Jacob Aud
03:52 AM on 07/13/2012
BOTH science and religion, in their noblest forms, involve the search for truth. Science discovers a world of magnificent order, a universe that contains distinctive marks of intelligent design. True religion makes these discoveries meaningful by teaching that the mind of the Creator lies behind the design manifest in the physical world.

"I find my appreciation of science is greatly enriched by religion," says Francis Collins, a molecular biologist. He continues: "When I discover something about the human genome, I experience a sense of awe at the mystery of life, and say to myself, 'Wow, only God knew before.' It is a profoundly beautiful and moving sensation, which helps me appreciate God and makes science even more rewarding for me."

What will help one to reconcile science and religion?

Are Science and the Bible Compatible?
http://www.watchtower.org/e/201102c/article_01.htm

Does Science Contradict the Genesis Account?
http://www.watchtower.org/e/200609a/article_01.htm

RECONCILING Science and Religion
http://www.watchtower.org/e/20020608/article_01.htm
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taoistpunk
because the monks wouldn't have me..
09:45 AM on 07/13/2012
case in point..
03:42 PM on 07/13/2012
"which helps me appreciate God and makes science even more rewarding for me."

Yes, that the rub. The question is not does God exist, but rather is God a mindless causal mechanism or some intelligent agent causally preceding physical reality. Remember that intelligent agents, from everything we know scientifically, seem to be immaterial representations that the brain creates to deal with mindless causal mechanisms.
10:22 AM on 07/13/2012
Except that science says that the basis of existence is material and caused, and that consciousness with it agencies is an immaterial creation of a material brain, created over the eons in all it's amazing complexity by the process of evolution. From inside the mechanism we resist the conclusion, because of what it implies about what "I" am. But every Higgs Boson, hominid bone, and neurological pathology reinforces it. The phantoms of the mind exist only in the sense that they work, not in the sense that they are the material truth.
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Doug MacKenzie
I refuse to live in FEAR
02:51 PM on 07/12/2012
Controversy? What controversy? Science is based upon data and analysis of data. Science demands that one questions everything. Religion is based upon the contents of Bronze Age scrolls. Religion demands unquestioning belief in those scrolls.
06:29 AM on 08/02/2012
Not every religions requires one to look at Bronze Age scrolls. Your religion (whether you acknowledge it or not) is based on something different.

-Anthony Mannucci
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12:57 PM on 07/12/2012
Don't need Higgs Boson to disprove god. What theists need is to PROVE it, which can't be done.
08:25 PM on 07/12/2012
You cannot prove or disprove the existence of an opinion.

understand that I do not use a connotative of opinion, I use it literally.
Definition of OPINION

1: a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter

2: belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge
08:19 PM on 08/01/2012
So the existence of God is an just opinion not a fact? Thanks for clearing that up. Maybe if the millions or billions of hyper-religious folks (of whatever religion) accepted this, we would have less damage and more acceptance in this world.

There is more proof for Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy than there is for God.

So what are we if there is no God? The natural evolution of hydrogen that arrives at a point of such complexity it starts to ask where it came from.