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Gays in the Military: A Religious Issue?

Posted: 02/22/10 03:27 PM ET

Top U.S. officials say they want to repeal the decades-old "don't ask, don't tell" policy, which requires gay soldiers to keep their sexual orientation secret. I was asked recently if I believe that religious views should be a factor in that decision. Is this a religious issue? My short answer if, "of course it is".

Homosexuality IS a religious issue, at least it is if you are religious and happen to believe your faith should influence your thinking about big issues. And if your faith does not play such a role in your life, it's hard to imagine what you mean by religious.

Religion has, does, and will continue to inform the debate about gay people in the military because it informs the thinking of many of those involved in it. The same can be said for almost any social issue in a country overwhelming composed of citizens who believe in God.

But religious influence is not the same as religious coercion, and what policies are dictated by one's faith can range from denial of a gay person's right to serve to it being a religious mandate to assure an openly gay soldier's right to serve. Ultimately though such theological debate is a distraction from the only thing upon which policymakers should be focusing.

The issue is not the extent to which religious thinking should influence the decision makers. While religious thinking may inform people on both sides of this debate, the only appropriate question when it comes to making policy for the military, is what will give us a stronger, more efficient and effective military.

Unless policymakers are prepared to publicly claim that the full inclusion of gay soldiers will cause God to curse our military, the answer on this one is a no-brainer. Gay people should be able to serve our nation without fear of "detection" or shame about who they are. But we should also admit that implementing that policy is a quantum leap which presents real challenges, both practical and personal, for many people in the military and in the country.

Like all transitions, this shift in policy requires more time and patience than most people who support it seem willing to allow for. Because even if this is where we ought to go, the sensitivities of soldiers and policy-makers who do not share that view need to be taken into consideration. Why? Because they too are part of the effective, efficient fighting force that we seek.

Rather than spending endless hours and millions of dollars "proving" to each other what is the right response to this issue, we need to ask how whatever view we espouse could also take into account the views, needs and sensitivities of those who do not share it. Why? Because that too is a religious issue.

In this case, perhaps we religious, of whatever persuasion, should take a Sunday school lesson outside of our particular shul, church, mosque or other holy place. We need to take a lesson from the military, in which the cohesion of the unit regularly trumps the ideological debates which are generally a luxury of those not on the front lines.

 

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Top U.S. officials say they want to repeal the decades-old "don't ask, don't tell" policy, which requires gay soldiers to keep their sexual orientation secret. I was asked recently if I believe that r...
Top U.S. officials say they want to repeal the decades-old "don't ask, don't tell" policy, which requires gay soldiers to keep their sexual orientation secret. I was asked recently if I believe that r...
 
 
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04:51 PM on 02/25/2010
Gays in the military? a religious issue? Com' on!
Homosexuals have always been in the military, ours, theirs, every body's for all time. I would bet that their are gays in the Iranian military as well that's just the way it is. If I were in Iraq, I'd rather have a homosexual who can fight (and hopefully speak Arabic) than a straight man/woman who can't.
When on leave we're probably going to different places. I've never met anyone who has been in the military for 8 years or more who couldn't tell you who was gay in their unit and who was not. I've never met one who claimed that their weren't any.
"Don't ask, Don't tell", was supposed to be a stepping stone towards acceptance. The policy before that was "We have to ask, but deny it completely if you want to join".
It's time now (Okay it's overdue) that we become honest with our selves and each other.
"We don't ask, we don't care"
Let he who has never eaten shellfish, bacon, ham, pork chops, ever; or driven or ridden in a car, used the phone, watched TV after sundown on Friday to sundown Saturday. Sorry Catholics, but saying that the Sabbath is on Sunday is no excuse in the Old Testament. If you have kept all of this without error then you cast the first stone.
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curiousdwk
Global Citizen. Not Democratic, not Republican, n
02:32 PM on 02/25/2010
Thank you for this article. It does a good job of saying that an issue can be a religious individual but not a concern in the politics of a social agenda. Which is the definition of a Secularist. Secularists do not claim there should not be any religions or that people should not have and enjoy their beliefs. But they say that those religious beliefs should not play a part in the decision making process.

Now if we could only have a similar discussion on abortion.
01:38 PM on 02/25/2010
Gays in the Military: A Religious Issue?

No.
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09:37 AM on 02/25/2010
The military is a goverment operation. Religion is not permitted to influence matters in this area. Not ever. There is no religious component to discrimination against gays, other than believers' tendancy to attribute everything to their faith. They use it to validate indefensible positions. Homosexuality is prohibited in the bible in no greater measure than a hundred other things we as a society have abandoned. Religion is a convenient excuse not to have a rational argument.
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ThankGodhesgone
Always Progressive
08:02 AM on 02/25/2010
Since there are more references in the Bible regarding adultery and divorce than homosexuality, perhaps we should disqualify anyone who has sex prior to marriage, or has had a divorce. There are far more divorcees in this country than gay people.

See how nonsensical religious views have to do with serving in the military?
09:05 AM on 02/25/2010
Bravo! Ain't that the truth...
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Agbar
10:32 AM on 02/25/2010
Well put!! They don't exclude pork from the meals on Naval vessels because of Muslims. If they don't want to eat it...they eat something else. If you don't want to partake in homosexual acts, then don't.
03:22 AM on 02/25/2010
Once again American exceptionalism and ignorance of other nations and cultures has people thinking that we're braving some new frontier. We aren't. Just as most other developed nations have had universal health care for years, others have allowed gays and lesbians to serve openly. Israel - a Jewish state - allows gays and lesbians to serve openly. This isn't some strange new concept. And it's worked.

Our government doesn't have an official religion. We are supposed to keep church and state separate. Do people feel homosexuality is wrong based on their religion? Of course, and they have every right to believe that. Some believe women shouldn't be working outside the home - do we accommodate that as well? The Catholic church doesn't sanction divorce, should we ban people who have been divorced from the military as well?'

Every day we have to interact with and work with people of different genders, ethnicities, socioeconomic backgrounds, religions and yes, even sexual orientations. We don't always get to pick and choose. I hate to be harsh, but those who oppose this need to grow up. How long do we hold their hands and ask them to act like grown-ups? Not everyone has the same world view you do and that's OK. If you can't handle that, it's time to get a shack somewhere in the mountains and live as a hermit.
02:12 AM on 02/25/2010
***Gays in the Military: A Religious Issue?***


Nope.

Not one bit.

It's a discrimination issue, based on absolutely nothing, since there is no evidence to suggest that an open policy concerning sexual orientation has any adverse effect whatsoever on the Armed Forces in question, and indeed, forces already operating open policies have proven to be unaffected.

Religion has absolutely no place in the issue.
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gal416
is a Bible verse † † †
02:53 AM on 02/25/2010
Homosexuality wasn't even on God's top ten list of sins. Politicians who masqerade as Chistrians like to use it and abortion as a wedge issue.
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llewdit
Retired cleric
01:01 AM on 02/25/2010
I am a true born-again Christian and give the Bible as my greatest authority, one that is in a class by itself. The Bible was not made up by a group of witless persons as some people claim, but is the God-inspired, inerrant and powerful Word of God.

God clearly condemns homosexuality and considers it an abomination, the word which describes God's strongest dislike. In Romans, chapter 1, the Bible tells us in words that are not difficult to understand, that God will turn over those who reject His word and present their own thughts as being superior. There times in Romans 1, the Bible says of homosexuals that "god gave them up" to utter destruction because of their turning away from Him.

Homosexuality is a perversion of something that God ordained for the good and well being of mankind, male and female, and said for us to propogate the human race. Homosexuals can in no way bear children when paired in same sex, and can in no stretch of the imagination measure up to the high standard for sexual expression which God has set (See Genesis 1:28). How tragic it is when persons commit themselves to an aberrant lifestyle which God condemns and which leads to the most tragic consequences. With 53 1/2 years of marriage by my wife and me, I know in the deepest recesses of my heart and soul that what we have is exactly wht God intended for the human race.
02:31 AM on 02/25/2010
So says you...blah blah blah...produce your birth certificate showing your true age to be 2000+ years old and that you were actually present 'when all the Jesus stuff went down', and I'll believe you...until then you are nothing but another smug, self-righteous bigot insisting that others be punished, discriminated against, and/or harmed in various ways because of your flawed thinking...you use the Bible as a weapon, not a bridge builder, and mention NONE of the other admonishments in your supposed salvation manual.

Do you eat shrimp? Have you ever worn clothing made from mixed cloths? Worked on the Sabbath? Do you support the death penalty for adulterers (and women who are not virgins on thier wedding night?) There's a whole bunch of crazy sh*t in the Bible, that most so-called christians conveniently 'forget' to follow...but oh, those gays..."we better watch out"...more and more people now see the hypocrisy and veiled hatred held by those who wish to control us all and make us conform to their religious beliefs....thankfully, a new age of enlightenment and reason may be upon us...please God, let's hope so.

Go protest outside of Red Lobster dude, there's some serious freakiness going on in there you need to put if stop to if you are a true Bible following Christian...meanwhile, let honorable LGBT American citizens serve their country as they wish....

My favorite prayer? Dear Jesus, please protect me from your followers...
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gal416
is a Bible verse † † †
03:00 AM on 02/25/2010
Jesus died on a cross so that nobody has to be stoned to death for the kind of food they eat, the material in the clothes they wear or whether they work on the sabbath or not. All that Jesus asks is that you believe in Him.
03:26 AM on 02/25/2010
Again, so says you...where's YOUR 2000 yr old birth certificate?

And thank you, I guess, for bringing up one of the most maddening things about your faith...you can apparently do JUST ABOUT ANYTHING, do any old crappy annoying thing...but magic Jesus supposedly died for your sins...

Insult the gays, lie cheat and steal, act like you're the "special" chosen people, support war and torture, etc etc etc, ad infinitum...but Jesus is gonna forgive you, and all will be swell...well, I don't buy it...I don't think Jesus was that stupid....I'm certainly not.

Lots of so-called christians have blood on their hands...it's the hypocrisy, outdated social judgements, and arrogance that are the true threats to the christian faith...not the gays.
03:14 AM on 02/25/2010
Thank you Rev. Phelps. I was raised to believe the same things. Fortunately I never really did.

I wonder how I am causing the breakdown of society. Same-sex marriage has been legal in several countries and states for some time now. The sky hasn't fallen. Heterosexual marriages aren't breaking up more than they have been. God hasn't rained disaster upon The Netherlands, Spain, Canada or Massachusetts. If marriage is strictly for reproduction, should couples who choose to remain childless or who are infertile be forced to divorce? How about women marrying after menopause? My partner and I live rather average, and honestly boring lives. He was able to serve in the military (he is a dual citizen) openly. No problems at all. How does our living our lives as we choose affect you in any way?

Finally, where is your outrage at those who have actually brought our country to the brink of collapse? Jesus though homosexuality was so important, he never mentions it once. Paul mentions it, the only one in the NT to do so. But Jesus speaks often of greed and the perils of massing earthly possessions. So, where does Christianity fit into business ethics? Why isn't there the same level of outrage at the greed, corporatism and materialism that has literally brought the US to the brink of destruction? Or concern about how we're treating a planet that was allegedly designed for us by God?
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DannyEV
08:02 AM on 02/25/2010
"Finally, where is your outrage at those who have actually brought
EVERYBODY LOOK AT THIS FROM ROBCO, ABOVE:

"Jesus thought homosexuality was so important, he never mentions it once. Paul mentions it, the only one in the NT to do so. But Jesus speaks often of greed and the perils of massing earthly possessions. So, where does Christianity fit into business ethics? Why isn't there the same level of outrage at the greed, corporatism and materialism that has literally brought the US to the brink of destruction? Or concern about how we're treating a planet that was allegedly designed for us by God?"

for that, robco, you are FANNED AND FAVED.
08:41 AM on 02/25/2010
Robco, I am trying to use the term "same gender marriage" instead of "same sex" as those who oppose it can't seem to get their minds out of other people's bedrooms long enough to see anything else! I think it is the word "sex" that upsets them more than anything else! (poor sods!)
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LMPE
I connect the most dissimilar things
12:25 AM on 02/25/2010
Trying to incorporate religion into the armed forces amounts to the Crusades.
08:43 AM on 02/25/2010
Bravo! Well said LMPE.
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leyvadaniel
10:43 PM on 02/24/2010
The conservatives are making a big deal out of the Gays in the military, because they know that when more closeted men are confronted with sane, heallthy openly gay men, they are going to realize that they have been living a lie based on a misinterpretation of the Holy Scrpture.

It is a religious issue? no it it not, there are many open and affirming churches that include lots of faithfully Christina Gays.

Nothing can separate us from the love of God, nothing
10:23 PM on 02/24/2010
What ever happened to the Christian concept of "Live and Let Live"?

We should be grateful that gay people are among the people whose patriotism is such that they are willing to serve and even die for their country.

You wouldn't ban gays from stores, theaters, workplaces or even houses of worship would you?

So why are gays banned from the military? Gay should be admited immediately and if the religious scruples of people presently in the military are such that they cannot serve with gay people then THEY should be invited to resign with full benefits and honors, no questions asked!
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TaiJi2
04:26 PM on 02/25/2010
Nonsense. Anyone who won't serve with others because of a prejudice, religious or otherwise, should be kicked out as unhealthy and disruptive influences - no honors, no benefits.
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RedDogBear
03:34 PM on 02/27/2010
I agree with everything you said except there is no "Christian concept of "Live and Let Live" That's not in the bible and if you read the bible you will find a lot more "lets burn this city to the ground and kill all its people because they don't worship our God" and "lets stone this person for eating the wrong food or sleeping with someone they shouldn't" than "live and let live".
09:44 PM on 02/24/2010
Where do we draw the line when it comes to taking into account the sensitivities of others in the army? Most people don't eat dogs, but let's say I enjoy eating dogs when I am at home. Should I not speak of this around others in the army? Will they not allow me in the army if they knew I liked eating dogs at home? The hypocrisy is the same - in the case of food, eating cows is ok but eating dogs isn't whereas in the case of sexuality, having sex with the opposite gender is ok but with the same gender isn't. And what if I have religious views that are very different from others? Should I not speak of them? Will I not be allowed in the army if they knew I believed in the spaghetti monster?
08:20 PM on 02/24/2010
For the life of me I can't understand Gays wanting to be christian. The bible is clear about gays. Christians do not want gays. Gays wanting to be christian are like a black man asking the klan why he can't join their little club. You do not have to be christian to have a great life, trust me on this one.
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RedDogBear
03:35 PM on 02/27/2010
I agree completely. Also don't understand how women with self esteem could want to be Catholic.
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Greg Evans
06:21 PM on 02/24/2010
Could someone please, in very simple terms, explain the notion that gays will adversely affect unit cohesion? How, exactly? I mean, how will anti-gay soldiers newly function, or not function?

Be specific. Will they refuse to go on patrol? Will they become smelly because they won't shower? Will they go AWOL in numbers that could diminish troop performance?

This argument is, to me, identical to the notion that gay marriage will adversely affect heterosexual marriage. The argument is repeated ad nauseum, even by seemingly well-meaning believers such as Brad Hirschfield, yet they never seem to explain their thinking.
bklynsparrow
creating reality from unreal things
07:57 PM on 02/24/2010
From what I know of first responders and soldiers, they are professional and focused on the job. To imply that they cannot function around homosexuals is an insult to their professionalism.

But the real story is there is no excuse for discriminating against homosexuals other than pure, unadulterated bigotry. You can read the bible until your eyes bleed- but it was written by Man. And interpreted by Man. None of whom, so far as I can tell, has any real claim to be speaking for G-d.
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Soulmentor
"To thine own self be true...."
08:25 PM on 02/24/2010
There's a reason they don't. Because they can't. Because there is no logical rationale for their why they think as they do. When I ask my evangelical sister how my gay marriage (if I had one) would affect her hetero marriage, she can only get a perplexed look on her face. Religious types are clearly vexed by the question because they have no rational answer.
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Greg Evans
09:51 PM on 02/24/2010
Indeed.
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mikeinSeattle
06:20 PM on 02/24/2010
Ya know what... it is up to US to tell the military what will/will not be tolerated among the ranks! The military does not have voting rights on what is acceptable (other than they have weapons of course) -- but they are there to serve & protect ALL citizens of the United States - and therefore should live by the same rules.